Twenty’s Mask Slips
Posted on Wednesday, June 13, 2007Well, the Limerick photos were a great success, and thanks very much for your participation.
A while back, I came across a comment about Limerick on Kav’s blog, by Twenty Major, and I reacted to it because I thought it was a particularly idiotic and gratuitous slur on a town he clearly knew nothing about except perhaps for something he’d read in the Sun. Or the Independent, God help us. And so I wrote a vitriolic piece in response. However, when Twenty pointed out that he had only made a throwaway remark, I began to regret my impulsiveness. After all, anybody can lapse into stupidity at times. It even happens to me, sometimes, though I know you can hardly believe such a thing to be possible.
And then I came across this, from back in March 2005, a full two years before his innocent throwaway remark over at Kav’s. Enjoy another of Twenty Major’s insightful and witty perspectives on Limerick.
This is a masterpiece of understatement in which a writer at the very height of his powers achieves almost Beckettian greatness by writing a funny piece, but - and here’s the really smart bit - all the humour is cleverly stripped out. In other words, the devastating wit is cunningly disguised as boring derivative shite.
The part I enjoyed the most, which I encouraged my own children to chuckle at, was his list of tags. Go on, I said, and laugh at yourselves, useless fuckers!
God, how Limerick children love this kind of harmless banter. It gives them great self-belief.
I just loved Twenty’s witty list of tags about our town.
Limerick
Knackers
Pikeys
Travellers
Ironic or what?
Emanating from the murder capital of Ireland, this is subtlety such as we boghoppers might never aspire to. As I keep telling you, this is the difference between men of greatness and the heaving sweaty masses. It’s what makes me just another Limerick grunt while Twenty remains the World’s Greatest Living Blogger.
Laugh? Funny isn’t the word for it.
Stumble it!
June 13th, 2007
“Funny isn’t the word for it”.
How about - “racist” being the word for it???
June 13th, 2007
No, Mairéad. It isn’t racism, since we’re all the same race. Limerick people, tinkers and even Dubliners share identical DNA.
I suspect there mightn’t even be much malice in it. There’s a kind of condescending smugness common to all small post-colonial capitals like Dublin, and I suspect that’s what we might be looking at here.
June 13th, 2007
Bock, please don’t apologise for your “worlds greatest living blogger” put down. It was spot-on, and captured exactly what Limerick people think of the slur, and how lazy and smug it is. Not too touchy at all. Every now and then call them on it.
June 13th, 2007
I spose all human beings share pretty much the same DNA if you come right down to it? Racism is probably a bit harsh tho’ How about elitism? I dunno. My brother lives in NY and was called Paddy or Mick for years. Then a friend of his took a case of racial discrimination because of similar treatment. It made my brother (then me when he told me) look at things a little bit differently.
June 14th, 2007
Well Bock, m’man, Twenty is like one of those shitty seventies comedians. He sticks to stereotype because he has neither the wit nor the imagination to come up with something original. Don’t apologise for your outbursts. We need them.
June 14th, 2007
I noticed a distinct lack of venom in Twenty’s surprisingly feeble responses to the bother he found himself in at Kav’s.
Genuine re-evaluation of a throwaway comment? regret even? or was he simply incapable of defending his remark when someone called him on his bullshit?
The sad thing is I’d really be disappointed if it’s the latter.
As for the latest nonsense? Fuck it! Drive on!
June 14th, 2007
Bock, is not criticising Twenty for his Limerick views not a bit like criticising Sacha Baron Cohen for Borat’s views?
Does Twenty not talk about everywhere and everybody in that manner? Is that not the very point of the character created by that anonymous blogger? If satire is done well don’t we get at the truth by way of a constant presentation of untruths that are clearly ludicrous?
You and I both do satirical pieces in the guise of our pseudonymous blogger characters, but then to some extent we have our cake and eat too by mixing it in with actual truth. We let our masks slip.
So far as I can tell Twenty seems tighter, only letting his mask slip when talking about political parties or some social politics - but not when slagging off groups of people or types of people or whole cities, or when using any of the extreme behaviours he describes all the time.
I think to be consistent as the character of Twenty he has no option but to make such comments about Limerick, and create such photo pieces, no?
Are you not arguing with Alf Garnett, or David Brent, or Myles na gCopaleen even? And now am I doing the same?
As somebody once said, we should all be careful of what we pretend to be.
June 14th, 2007
Eolai has a point, and it’s well made.
The character ‘Twenty’ is a fictional creation, a poo-laden bollix who shits on all round him. The issue is whether the fictional creation allows its creator to say things he as a person believes but does not feel free to express.
Your GLB remarks are a little, as it were, ad hominem, suggesting that you believe Twenty’s mask has slipped, revealing his creator’s own real prejudices.
You may be right. Twenty tries hard to offend and generally takes a contrary view to orthodoxies. Hence, in the context of the general attitude to Limerick, I’d expect Twenty to take a highly ironic tone and be constantly praising the city as a place to to take your holidays etc etc.
So Twenty, get back in character and try harder.
June 14th, 2007
Some very interesting responses but I think you’re possibly missing the point. Bock, and indeed I, do talk about the failings of our hometown. It’s when it comes to a twatty major labouring an ill-deserved stereotype that he is taken to task. He probably loves the shit he’s getting from us. Let’s continue to pull him up on his very typical and obvious observations but try not to make him “controversial” because he’s just not good enough to be promoted in that way.
June 14th, 2007
Fuck me you’re a touchy cunt, Bock.
No comment on the Dublin picture in which I mention the stereotypical smell of the Liffey?
And God forbid you might engage in any kind of stereotyping yourself and make jokes at the expense of others.
You don’t like me and that’s fair enough. I couldn’t give a fuck but just fucking say that rather than making snide comments and getting on your high horse about a picture and a comment about which are fucking jokes. Not particularly clever or original jokes I’ll admit but the chip on your shoulder is less a chip than a bag of fucking roosters.
June 14th, 2007
Good job you’re not from San Franciso or you’d scratch my eyes out.
June 14th, 2007
The smoking gun! Charlie Bird has competition it seems.
June 14th, 2007
Ah lads, can’t we all just get along? So Twenty has taken up residence in his ivory tower; so what? An ivory tower in Dublin is probably surrounded by smackheads and covered in graffiti.
June 14th, 2007
sweet mother of jesus not this again…
June 14th, 2007
I have to agree with Manuel. Ladies Puleeeze!
June 14th, 2007
Wise words from Eolai, which I intend to ponder.
Satire, eh? Hmmm.
Twenty: Like you? I don’t even know you. I don’t dislike you, if that’s what you mean. I think some of your work is incredibly funny, and you were one of the first bloggers I started reading, and recommending to people.
What I dislike is not you. What I dislike is the pigeon-holing that happens to me, my family, my children as a consequence of this stupid urban myth.
And you’re right: when it comes to my children, I have a huge chip on my shoulder and no sense of humour whatever.
This stereotype, as I said before, was not invented by you. It was created by the inhabitants of the Dublin Media Bubble. But every time somebody perpetuates it, further harm is caused.
What about having a go instead at the insular, up-its-own-arse national media we have? The Indo, capable of describing an office building as “only a knife’s throw from Thomond Park”. RTE, whose idea of a national vox-pop is to send somebody out on Merrion Road for a chat with their friends and neighbours. The cretins who refer to every place outside Dublin (two thirds of the population) as “down the country”. Here be dragons.
These are the goons who create this kind of slur, and ironically, it’s my TV licence that pays for them to do it.
If you were a nobody, I wouldn’t be reacting like that, but a lot of people read you, and it isn’t in my nature to sit down and accept that kind of thing without reacting. I’m not a laid back person, and neither are you.
Mr Mulley: Nothing worse than a smoking gun to jump up and bite you on the arse.
Some terrible knackers will probably do something awful over the weekend and make a liar out of me.
June 14th, 2007
I do take pops at the ‘insular, up-its-own-arse national media’ we have but obviously I’m not looking at it from the same perspective as you.
However, I couldn’t care less what they said about Limerick or Dublin or anywhere else for that matter. If someone wanted to call all Dubliners a pack of stuck up whatever the fucks or anything else then fine. I know it’s not true the same way as you know it’s only a small minority in Limerick who are stabby knackers (joke, joke).
It’s just one of those things. Limerick will always be ’stab city’ to a certain amount of people, black people can all dance really well, people from Cavan are mean cunts, Irish people are a bit thick, Belgians are all child molesters and so on.
If you were in a pub in England and someone started telling ‘Paddy Irishman’ jokes would you react and start a row or just think ‘What a dim cunt’?
I’m just unsure why you dragged up that Flickr thing which is quite old now and I don’t think too many people who read me take what I say in a very serious manner (for the most part).
June 14th, 2007
Hold on a second.
Black people can all dance really well, people from Cavan are mean cunts (see my post on Tommy Cusack, late of Poolbeg Street, a man with whom, I feel sure, you’re familiar), Irish people are a bit thick, and Belgians are definitely all child molesters.
It’s the unfounded stereotypes I take issue with.
June 14th, 2007
Interesting the way Twenty didn’t go all the way with the black stereotype. I wonder why? Go on Twenty, tell us more about these stereotypes.
June 14th, 2007
Where thar be diplomacy, thar be a pirate to shit on it and I be that pirate. Twenty isn’t the only Dub to besmirch what he knows fuck all about. Conn Corrigan of… wait for it… Dubliner magazine has all but called Limerick a blight on Ireland’s ever-improving landscape. What passes for journalism in this country is shocking. I have walked the streets of Limerick at night and I’ve never been attacked by a shower of knackers - probably jinxed that record now. The point is, Twenty, you play on stereotype and it’s old and obvious. How about we create a new stereotype. How about most Dublin people are inbred? I’d prefer to be stabbed by a stanley knife than my brother Stanley.
June 14th, 2007
Cap’n'P - create what you want. I couldn’t care less. I just find it curious that it bothers Bock, and others, so much.
Gary, what are you on about?
June 14th, 2007
What’s curious about being sick of people sticking to hackneyed and ill-deserved stereotype. Dublin people actually believe that all Limerick people are dodgy. Why do you think that is? I’ve never been stabbed or set upon or shot. I believe that your comments were off the cuff and not meant to be malicious but when you live with a reputation you don’t deserve, you tend to react to people who perpetuate that reputation.
P.S. Conn Corrigan is a thick cunt.
June 14th, 2007
Dublin people actually believe that all Limerick people are dodgy.
Well, if Limerick people think that all Dubliners think like that then it’s as big a misconception as all Dublin people thinking all Limerick people are dodgy.
June 14th, 2007
Bock
As a Limerick man I find the constant laziness in reporting and commenting on Limerick annoying. Especially given positive direction the city has been and is moving in. Limerick despite it’s problems always had character, (and characters), but now the style and energy of the city is catching up. Limerick is the Irish city of the future. In light of that, although each individual incident is minor but over time it it gets royally irritating to find old stereotypes resurfacing. On that level I understand your reaction, if, given the nature of Twenty’s bloc I think it’s a little over the top.
However there is a little stone throwing in glass houses going on. You yourself have stereotyped Tinkers in a similar manner. (http://bocktherobber.com/2006/12/e-pikeys), I thought this was very funny, but if you are touchy about how people stereotype us, don’t you think that this post is an equally egregious example of stereotyping, and your response to Copernicus’s comments was just as strong and similar to Twenty’s reaction to your response to his comments.
Shit,there goes my invite to the Limerick Blogger piss up :)
June 14th, 2007
Don’t ye be tryin to weasel your way out of the blog party, Johm Mc. There’s a berth on the Kipper set aside for you. It’s beside Slimey Pete’s. Hey, why doesn’t Twenty come along and sample the Limerick nightlife for himself. Now that would put to rest any niggling doubts as to whether his remarks are throwaway or part of some misguided ethos.
Come on down, Twenty. We’ll mind you.
June 14th, 2007
Do you have hotels in Limerick?
June 14th, 2007
A surprising amount of them. You have a choice of the Hilton, Radisson, Jury’s - although there’s a 12 angry men still out as to the benefits of that establishment - the Marriot and Limerick prison, which might as well be a fucking hotel.
June 14th, 2007
Seems the only thing they are building is hotels. You know things are changing when someone builds a huge hotel on the outskirts of Southill.
BTW I’m not sitting beside Slimy Pete, he can’t hold a tune to save his life, and if things get to singing I don’t want my dulcet tones ruined by his tin eared warbling. And there is the smell of course.
June 14th, 2007
I had sympathy, Bock, with your annoyance regarding stereotyping of Limerick folk.
I don’t have any sympathy now, with you doing the same thing about Dubliners.
“There’s a kind of condescending smugness common to all small post-colonial capitals like Dublin” ??
Dublin people are a very mixed bunch. Some of us had parents from Donegal or Cavan. Some of us have in-laws from the west or the south. I’ve had good times in Limerick. And Clare. And Mayo. And the farthest reaches of Donegal. And many other places, 32-county-wide. When I want a break, I mostly head west out of Dublin, wherever that road takes me. And I don’t avoid Limerick.
BTW, that thing on Flickr is not a patch on what Dublin’s northsiders put up with. We’re used to it - and it doesn’t keep us awake at night. You, on the other hand, I’m starting to worry about.
[And BTW 2, not all rugby-playing schools in Dublin are expensive.]
June 15th, 2007
Twenty: I’ll be happy to put you up. I hope you’re coming in September.
JohnMc: You’re right of course, except you don’t see the way the tinkers behave around here. But it was funny, no? I think.
You’re also right about Copernicus. I was very rude and I was wrong.
Hey! What can I say?
June 15th, 2007
Say you won’t take me out of your links, ‘cos I won’t take you out of mine! :)
June 15th, 2007
Yes, the smell. Ah the poor wretch. Damn fine navigator but he can’t find his way to the shower. I’ll have him dispatched to the galley for the duration of the proceedings.
June 15th, 2007
Nora: Your first comment went astray for a while. I wouldn’t dream of deleting you. What on earth makes you think I would?
June 15th, 2007
Nora: You put your finger on it.
Old joke. What do you call a Dubliner’s father?
Answer: a culchie.
Great. We all laughed. But that’s not what’s been happening recently. It’s more worrying.
June 15th, 2007
Is that it then, are we all friends again?
Off to bed now.
June 15th, 2007
Just kidding about the links, Bock. Trying to lighten up on my previous comment.
No worries.
I take your point about Dublin-centric media. Absolutely. But there are times when Irish TV 2007 seems to have no connection to me either. I’ll elaborate another time. It’s to do with “little dresses” that are a “snip” at €750, and “sure you’d have to have it”.
I would? God, ’tis far from those we were reared!
June 15th, 2007
‘night!
June 15th, 2007
In Scotland we hate everybody that lives 30 miles away and love everybody that lives 60 miles away. It’s like a love-hate mosaic all over the shop. Local football matches can be brutal.
I had no idea Ireland had regional tensions like this. If it’ll bring some unity, you can all take it out on the Jock here (the Jocelyn? No, that’s daft.)
Come on! I can take yiz! I can take yiz all!! ((Hops up and down with punchy fists))
June 15th, 2007
Bock, very kind offer and I really would take you up on it but I spend every September on my yacht taking in the sun, sea and dazzling dames around Dublin Bay.
It’s the Riviera of the north, dontcha know?
June 15th, 2007
So anyway, there I was thinking Bock had gone away for a while or something seeing as his feed was no longer feeding my Bloglines account.
Then I chance clicking on my dusty, cobwebbed sidebar and realise he’d simply moved.
Then I read this and realised I’d been wasting my time watching Charley and Shabnam in Big Brother.
June 15th, 2007
Being of pure limerick blood but brought up in the big smoke, I think I’ll just sit this one out… It’s all hugely entertaining anyway.
June 15th, 2007
I broke my ankle playing football in Limerick a few years back, and had my wallet stolen in Dublin a couple of weeks ago.
So I now hate both places equally. Which is, after all, what I think everyone is striving for here. More equality.
June 15th, 2007
You won’t believe this. I was opening my second bottle of wine tonight and I decided to dispense with using the pen-knife part of the cork-screw and just go straight through the foil. Well, there was lots of foil left hanging over the edge so I decided to take out the knife part and cut a little so it would rip off easily. I forgot to refold the pen-knife attachment and the foil gave all of a sudden and I stabbed myself in the forehead. Don’t tell RTE or I’ll have Cathy O’Halloran around to my place.
June 16th, 2007
Don’t ye be tryin to weasel your way out of the blog party, Johm Mc.
There was a party and I wasn’t invited.
You are all cunts. end of :D