I am glad that you defend all Religions and I am not trying to make it a race issue, thats your response to my words.

It is a way of life for the Sikhs and other people, so thats why I think that if people are not able to wear the standard uniform of the Garda, then thats a problem.

It may well take some years for you to get to grips with what is happening in Ireland these days, by then it will be too late for the population that is of Irish Decent to have any say in anything.

It is as important for me to be Irish and for all people in Ireland to become Irish or at least try to adopt an Irish way of life in public and be what ever they want in private.

The reason we are having this debate, is because the person of Indian decent wants to hold on to his Heritage just as much as I want to remain Irish.

If I went to any other country and wanted to join or do whatever, I would adopt the Laws,Ways,Culture of that country, as I have now left my own country and I am now starting on a new way of life.

In private I can be whatever as long as I did not offend the people of that country by trying to dictate my Religion or ways upon them.

I am not of a racist nature, I just want people to get on with the people of the country that they choose to come to live in as I would do if I leave Ireland.

I would love to see non Irish people trying to adopt some if not all of our Laws and ways of life as it would really then create a new Ireland that we could be part of in many more ways.

This debate concerns the wearing of turbans, not what religions are entitled to join the police.

Be clear about this: people of every religion and of none can join our police force and work in every other area of life as well, and that’s as it should be.

Please don’t try to turn this discussion into a race issue, or a rant about keeping foreigners out of the country, because I won’t let you do that.

In response to the Sikh and the wearing of his turban in the garda Reserve.

If Religion is allowed to enter into the matter, why not have every religion in the world join the Garda Reserve and we can have a right old time with the confusion that would follow.

I think that we should learn that as a nation we are nearly done and if we are not already a people of the past, we soon will be.

It has become quite obvious to me that as Irish people we can soon kiss that tag Irish goodbye.

At the moment here in Ireland we do not have any leadership worth a shit and I am of the opinion that our political leaders ( jokes ) are asleep with their heads up their rear ends and in a few years from now it will become more clear to everybody of the bad errors made in allowing too many non nationals in to this Country without some checks and balances being made.

Years ago I used to like seeing non Irish people in Ireland, especially those that tried to adopt to Ireland, like the Boat People who came here some thirty years ago and adapted to our way of life. That is not happening with the people comming now and it is we who will eventually have to change to their demands, the will come.

If you allow the Sikh’s in to the Garda and other areas you will have other religions wanting to get in as well and this will be a bad move if it affects the way the job is done.

If we change to suit one we will have to change to suit all and religion should not become part of any bargaining tool.

Religion is for personal use and the Holy places and in the home and in in a good persons heart and mind.

Question : What will Ireland become in a few years when we are outnumbered by Non Irish people even if they have been here a few years and have children, they will always be loyal to their parents place of birth.

The Irish in America are known as IRISH AMERICANS and will always be known as that.

“Just try to think of a Turban as a non-religious thing.”

Ok…

Garda Reserve: Sarge, can I wear this?

Garda Sargent: Is it part of the uniform?

Garda Reserve: No sir.

Garda Sargent: No.

End of argument.

I don’t see what the problem is. If the wearing of any item of clothing is so important that it precludes the wearing of the correct and full uniform then don’t go for the job.

As for wearing it only for formal occasions and such, again on a non-religious note. If a Scottish person wanted to wear the kilt as part of the Garda uniform for special occasions I still say no.

If it is not part of the uniform you do not wear it when you are required to wear the uniform. It’s a very simple and straightforward rule.

I never want to play that card! Its just a thought and many people would say so. And, it does matter what you believe! Everyone who cares matters!

yes Sikhism was founded by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji. But, over the centuries, Sikhism was subjected to suppression by Islamic rulers of India, and by many Hindu groups as well. Ironic to me! Everybody who knows Sikhism knows about 1984!

Well, Sikhs mostly came from northern plains of India and the followers were different from Dravidians (A separate race anthropologically speaking!). This has been opposed by fundamentalist Hindus and Muslims! Both want to say Sikhism is their sub-religion. Many people across the world from different races have adopted Sikhism, just like non white Christians in India! Globalisation dear! Anyway, I personally find this race stuff ironic since Sikhism shuns all race based thoughts! and, we have seen enough mind wash by political world using race, religion etc. Lets stand strongly against people who use us.

Yes, My thoughts will be biased since I am a Sikh…and yours will oscillate as well! Lets end this by saying that there must a common solution, like formal occasion may permit a turban, while on an operation alternatives could be used. Everyone is happy!

Just try to think of a Turban as a non-religious thing. Believe me many Hindus, Muslims, even some Persians wear turban on special occasions like marriage and stuff! We just like to keep it on!

Cheers!

I accept fully that the man who wants to join the police has the best of motives and would be an excellent example of Sikh principles, which I find admirable.

You don’t do your argument any favours by playing the racism card, however. It is not a race issue here. It’s about religion. I would also object to a policeman wearing a yarmulka, or a crucifix. By the way, forgive my ignorance but I didn’t know Sikhs were a distinct race. Wasn’t Sikhism founded by Guru Nanak in the 15th century, and aren’t there thousands of non-Indian Sikhs in America?

Firstly, I said these things as an general information for blokes with not enough information on Sikhism. I live in Aberdeen and have been attacked many times by people who confuse me with Muslim extremists. UK, US have both witnessed post 9/11 hate crime where Sikhs have been attacked.

Yes, you are entitled to make rules for your organization. But mate just recognize the fact that turban is a necessity in professional appearance for a Sikh.

Furthermore, isn’t he an Irish Citizen? He just wants to join the force and serve. Turban is not a ‘religion on display’. Please search for Sikhs in Indian forces. Fighter Pilots in Indian Air Force keep their turban in formal dress code, they use alternatives when in ‘hot’ seat! So do engineers, doctors etc! We are pragmatic about things!

Turban can be tied in a manner that makes it compact and tidy, just like a Hat! Smart and simple!

And a very important fact is that SIKHS are separate race, so this unintentionally amounts to racism. Sorry for that.

Anyway, My Girlfriend is Irish white girl from Bray so thats what makes me interested!

Secondly, I recognise that Sikhs are good, honest, hardworking people.

Thirdly, we aren’t going out forcing our ways on anybody. This discussion is about what we do in our own country, and we are fully entitled to make whatever rules we wish for our police force.

I happen to believe that no religion in this country should get special treatment, and that includes Christians, Muslims, Sikhs and Jews.