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	<title>Comments on: The Joe O&#8217;Reilly Conviction</title>
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	<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction</link>
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		<title>By: marko</title>
		<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction/comment-page-1#comment-64428</link>
		<dc:creator>marko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2009 19:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction#comment-64428</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know how joe o&#039;reilly was convicted on the evidence.From a legal perspective he will walk on appeal, on the technicality that the mobile phone records were obtained illegally ie 02 is not registered with the postal and telegraphs, its very black and white the phone records were obtained illegally, also the appeal court will have to give weight to the fact that there is no evidence that joe o&#039;reilly arrived at the scene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know how joe o&#8217;reilly was convicted on the evidence.From a legal perspective he will walk on appeal, on the technicality that the mobile phone records were obtained illegally ie 02 is not registered with the postal and telegraphs, its very black and white the phone records were obtained illegally, also the appeal court will have to give weight to the fact that there is no evidence that joe o&#8217;reilly arrived at the scene.</p>
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		<title>By: Bock</title>
		<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction/comment-page-1#comment-59960</link>
		<dc:creator>Bock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction#comment-59960</guid>
		<description>It seems your years of law research didn&#039;t teach you much about logic.  Lying under oath does not prove guilt.  It shows you have someting to hide, which is an entirely different matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems your years of law research didn&#8217;t teach you much about logic.  Lying under oath does not prove guilt.  It shows you have someting to hide, which is an entirely different matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Spoonog</title>
		<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction/comment-page-1#comment-59959</link>
		<dc:creator>Spoonog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction#comment-59959</guid>
		<description>Hi Guy&#039;s
I have been researching Law for many years now. The problem is, not one of you here actually seems to have made the connections.
Ok , what am I talking about..Joe O&#039;R was sucesfully convicted because he LIED UNDER OATH. They ask you to swear to tell the truth if you do not and get caught thats it, Game over. What would have happened if for example O&#039;reilly said no I do not swear to tell the truth if I have the right to lie I&#039;m gonna keep it thankyou very much.
They will then jail for &quot;contempt right&quot; well yes but only if he accepts it...LOL 
can you believe it the police are just a corporation just like Mc donnalds I kidd yoou not So are the courts...Don&#039;t believe me need proof...OK go to a site such as KOMPASS or dunn and bradsheet and look them up there you will have to pay a fee but you will see for yourself...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Guy&#8217;s<br />
I have been researching Law for many years now. The problem is, not one of you here actually seems to have made the connections.<br />
Ok , what am I talking about..Joe O&#8217;R was sucesfully convicted because he LIED UNDER OATH. They ask you to swear to tell the truth if you do not and get caught thats it, Game over. What would have happened if for example O&#8217;reilly said no I do not swear to tell the truth if I have the right to lie I&#8217;m gonna keep it thankyou very much.<br />
They will then jail for &#8220;contempt right&#8221; well yes but only if he accepts it&#8230;LOL<br />
can you believe it the police are just a corporation just like Mc donnalds I kidd yoou not So are the courts&#8230;Don&#8217;t believe me need proof&#8230;OK go to a site such as KOMPASS or dunn and bradsheet and look them up there you will have to pay a fee but you will see for yourself&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bock</title>
		<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction/comment-page-1#comment-4104</link>
		<dc:creator>Bock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 19:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction#comment-4104</guid>
		<description>Caoimhin: That&#039;s one of the reasons people feel uneasy about the case, and I agree with you.

Yankee Doodle: Thanks for a well-thought-out contribution to the discussion.  Obviously we have different views of the quality of evidence, but nevertheless, I&#039;m always glad to get a reasoned response instead of knee-jerk replies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caoimhin: That&#8217;s one of the reasons people feel uneasy about the case, and I agree with you.</p>
<p>Yankee Doodle: Thanks for a well-thought-out contribution to the discussion.  Obviously we have different views of the quality of evidence, but nevertheless, I&#8217;m always glad to get a reasoned response instead of knee-jerk replies.</p>
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		<title>By: Yankee Doodle</title>
		<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction/comment-page-1#comment-4103</link>
		<dc:creator>Yankee Doodle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 18:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction#comment-4103</guid>
		<description>While I respect (and share) your conviction that the standard of proof beyond reasonable doubt should be met in all cases, and while I believe that in some cases that this standard isn&#039;t reached but convictions are returned nonetheless, I cannot agree that this was such a case.

Obviously the prosecution stands or falls on the phone evidence. The phone evidence placed him in or around the house at the crucial time. If there is a potentially innocent explanation for this, he is entitled to the benefit of that innocent explanation. However, no such explanation was proffered. 

While the defence was not obliged to provide that innocent explanation, the lies of the accused as to his whereabouts on the morning in question make it very difficult for the jury to entertain the possibility that if he was there, he was there for legitimate reasons. This is particularly so when coupled with the overwhelming evidence of motive and the evidence of opportunity. In reality, the only question they were then left with was whether the phone evidence was reliable.

The defence case was that he was in Broadstone bus depot, not that he was in Broadstone bus depot but that if he was not in Broadstone bus depot but in the Naul then he was there for legitimate reasons. The defence were not entitled to have their cake and eat it too.

The evidence came down to the alibi versus the phone evidence and the phone evidence was incredibly thorough and well corroborated. The alibi evidence was weak. In the circumstances, the case was actually a slam dunk for the prosecution and no jury could be criticised for believing there was no reasonable doubt.

As for the media intrusion, while unfortunate, they were entitled to report the case and for the most part they reported the facts. The jury were also cautioned by the trial judge on a number of occasions to ignore the reporting. There is no reason to believe the jurors didn&#039;t respect their oaths.

The unease with circumstantial evidence is understandable. Standing alone none of the elements proved guilt but taken together they built up to form a web of coincidences that even the most suggestible person could not reconcile with an innocent explanation. 

I think it would be very unfair to criticise the jury in this case. The guards also need to take a great deal of credit for an exceptionally thorough investigation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I respect (and share) your conviction that the standard of proof beyond reasonable doubt should be met in all cases, and while I believe that in some cases that this standard isn&#8217;t reached but convictions are returned nonetheless, I cannot agree that this was such a case.</p>
<p>Obviously the prosecution stands or falls on the phone evidence. The phone evidence placed him in or around the house at the crucial time. If there is a potentially innocent explanation for this, he is entitled to the benefit of that innocent explanation. However, no such explanation was proffered. </p>
<p>While the defence was not obliged to provide that innocent explanation, the lies of the accused as to his whereabouts on the morning in question make it very difficult for the jury to entertain the possibility that if he was there, he was there for legitimate reasons. This is particularly so when coupled with the overwhelming evidence of motive and the evidence of opportunity. In reality, the only question they were then left with was whether the phone evidence was reliable.</p>
<p>The defence case was that he was in Broadstone bus depot, not that he was in Broadstone bus depot but that if he was not in Broadstone bus depot but in the Naul then he was there for legitimate reasons. The defence were not entitled to have their cake and eat it too.</p>
<p>The evidence came down to the alibi versus the phone evidence and the phone evidence was incredibly thorough and well corroborated. The alibi evidence was weak. In the circumstances, the case was actually a slam dunk for the prosecution and no jury could be criticised for believing there was no reasonable doubt.</p>
<p>As for the media intrusion, while unfortunate, they were entitled to report the case and for the most part they reported the facts. The jury were also cautioned by the trial judge on a number of occasions to ignore the reporting. There is no reason to believe the jurors didn&#8217;t respect their oaths.</p>
<p>The unease with circumstantial evidence is understandable. Standing alone none of the elements proved guilt but taken together they built up to form a web of coincidences that even the most suggestible person could not reconcile with an innocent explanation. </p>
<p>I think it would be very unfair to criticise the jury in this case. The guards also need to take a great deal of credit for an exceptionally thorough investigation.</p>
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		<title>By: Blogging from the Bog :: Freedom or Security? :: August :: 2007</title>
		<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction/comment-page-1#comment-3686</link>
		<dc:creator>Blogging from the Bog :: Freedom or Security? :: August :: 2007</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction#comment-3686</guid>
		<description>[...] Bock the Robber wrote a great blog about a judge who exhibited the kind of reason we are looking for, and should be read by all.&#160; However, not [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bock the Robber wrote a great blog about a judge who exhibited the kind of reason we are looking for, and should be read by all.&nbsp; However, not [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Caoimhin</title>
		<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction/comment-page-1#comment-3526</link>
		<dc:creator>Caoimhin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2007 20:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction#comment-3526</guid>
		<description>I realised the &quot;logic&quot; had gone out of the case when they allowed the &quot;look-a-like&quot; car evidence to be shown to the jury.  It now seems a guilty until proven innocent judicial mentality reigns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realised the &#8220;logic&#8221; had gone out of the case when they allowed the &#8220;look-a-like&#8221; car evidence to be shown to the jury.  It now seems a guilty until proven innocent judicial mentality reigns.</p>
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		<title>By: Bock</title>
		<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction/comment-page-1#comment-3434</link>
		<dc:creator>Bock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction#comment-3434</guid>
		<description>A chnuimh: That&#039;s it exactly.  It isn&#039;t whether we think he&#039;s guilty (though most people do).  It&#039;s about the burden of proof.

As far as I can see, this is a clear sign that society is dumbing down and losing its critical faculties.

They can&#039;t tell the difference between weight of evidence and proof.  If I keep flinging statements at you, I&#039;ll eventually wear you down.

What has happened to logic?  Gone in a tide of txt spk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A chnuimh: That&#8217;s it exactly.  It isn&#8217;t whether we think he&#8217;s guilty (though most people do).  It&#8217;s about the burden of proof.</p>
<p>As far as I can see, this is a clear sign that society is dumbing down and losing its critical faculties.</p>
<p>They can&#8217;t tell the difference between weight of evidence and proof.  If I keep flinging statements at you, I&#8217;ll eventually wear you down.</p>
<p>What has happened to logic?  Gone in a tide of txt spk.</p>
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		<title>By: cnuimh</title>
		<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction/comment-page-1#comment-3432</link>
		<dc:creator>cnuimh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 22:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction#comment-3432</guid>
		<description>He is appealing the sentence as far as I know. As the trial progressed I was sure that O&#039;Reilly&#039;s defense would try to refute some of the evidence but that never materialised. Now an appeal has been launched surely on the basis that O&#039;Reilly could not have received a fair trial in light of the media coverage. O&#039;Reilly was, after all, found guilty of murder in spite of the fact that there is no evidence that places him in the room at the time when the murder took place, there is no murder weapon and no forensic evidence. All we know is that he seems like a bad man who cheated on his wife and probably did it. In my understanding &quot;probably&quot; shouldn&#039;t be good enough unless it is beyond all reasonable doubt, but &quot;probably&quot; was enough for this jury. Were they influenced by the press? I think that&#039;ll be his defense&#039;s argument. If he couldn&#039;t get a fair trial before it will be impossible for another jury to try him. Again, I think he did it, I infer from his lies that he has something to hide. I just thought the burden of proof was a little greater for the state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He is appealing the sentence as far as I know. As the trial progressed I was sure that O&#8217;Reilly&#8217;s defense would try to refute some of the evidence but that never materialised. Now an appeal has been launched surely on the basis that O&#8217;Reilly could not have received a fair trial in light of the media coverage. O&#8217;Reilly was, after all, found guilty of murder in spite of the fact that there is no evidence that places him in the room at the time when the murder took place, there is no murder weapon and no forensic evidence. All we know is that he seems like a bad man who cheated on his wife and probably did it. In my understanding &#8220;probably&#8221; shouldn&#8217;t be good enough unless it is beyond all reasonable doubt, but &#8220;probably&#8221; was enough for this jury. Were they influenced by the press? I think that&#8217;ll be his defense&#8217;s argument. If he couldn&#8217;t get a fair trial before it will be impossible for another jury to try him. Again, I think he did it, I infer from his lies that he has something to hide. I just thought the burden of proof was a little greater for the state.</p>
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		<title>By: kit bÃƒÂ¡n</title>
		<link>http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction/comment-page-1#comment-3428</link>
		<dc:creator>kit bÃƒÂ¡n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bocktherobber.com/2007/08/the-joe-oreilly-conviction#comment-3428</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad someone else out there thinks so, it was a media trial.  I was gobsmacked, is he appealing I haven&#039;t heard.  I too think he may have done this awful deed but the trial was a travesty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad someone else out there thinks so, it was a media trial.  I was gobsmacked, is he appealing I haven&#8217;t heard.  I too think he may have done this awful deed but the trial was a travesty.</p>
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