Wayne O’Donoghue
Posted on Saturday, October 20, 2007Here’s another one I wasn’t going to write about. Is there no end to it?
We’re either talking about Wayne O’Donoghue, the murdering, child-abuser, according to the mother of the dead little boy or Wayne O’Donoghue, the victim, according to an alternative view.
Where are we going with this?
Last week, Paul Carney, the trial judge, criticised Majella Holohan for presenting a series of facts to a jury during the course of a victim impact statement. Majella Holohan is the mother of Robert, a young boy killed by Wayne O’Donoghue. She mentioned, among other things, that there was evidence of semen on the boy’s body.
Well, there you have it. What more evidence do you need? What happened seems plain enough in the face of such stark facts, doesn’t it?
Well, no, actually.
Let me give you another example of stark facts that seem to point in a particular direction.
In this very city, not too long ago, a homeless English man climbed into a commercial rubbish bin and fell asleep. In consequence, the refuse company came along in the morning and killed him.
Now, those are the facts, but they don’t tell you the story. Those facts are a lie, even though they are correct.
What really happened was that the refuse workers hooked up the bin to the truck without knowing the man was inside, and he was crushed to death in the truck’s mechanism.
In Wayne O’Donoghue’s case, he was one of the few people who could get through to Robert Holohan, a very difficult child with ADHD. He gave Robert a lot of his spare time and Robert’s parents were grateful for his help. Wayne had a life of his own. He was a bright student, many years older than the boy. He had an academic career and a grown-up life separate from Robert. He had a new car, his pride and joy, like many twenty-year-olds.
One day, Robert Holohan asked his friend Wayne to drive him into town. Wayne refused. Robert, who was unused to being refused anything, began to throw stones at Wayne’s new car. Wayne got out, grabbed Robert, struggled with him and things got out of hand. In the unequal struggle, Robert was injured and died.
That was when Wayne lost it.
He carried Robert into the bathroom of his house, attempted to revive him and then wrapped his body in a mat. He put the body in his car, drove to a remote location and hid it. Disgracefully, he took part in the search for the missing Robert and allowed everyone to continue hoping the child was still alive for another week.
Eventually, Wayne was charged with the boy’s killing and was convicted of manslaughter.
Those are the facts.
At the trial, Robert’s mother was afforded the opportunity to give a victim impact statement, and she painted a picture in which Wayne O’Donoghue was a vile paedophile killer. A picture in which traces of semen were found on the child’s body.
Why was semen found on the child’s body? Simple: three adolescent boys shared the bathroom, and anyone with a fragment of sense knows that where there are adolescent boys there is always semen.
In her desire for vengeance, Majella Holohan chose to overlook this fact.
In my opinion, no crime at all took place.
Wayne O’Donoghue was one of the few friends that this very difficult child had in his entire difficult life. By offering his time to support Robert’s harassed mother, Wayne O’Donoghue ended up in jail for a crime he never committed. He simply tried to restrain a hyperactive, violent child and ended up somehow overusing his superior strength, with the result that the child lost his life.
In my opinion there was no intent to commit any sort of crime, and therefore Wayne O’Donoghue should never have spent a second behind bars, never mind becoming a nationwide hate-figure simply because he was denounced by a mother blinded by grief.
That’s the problem with bald facts. They almost never tell the truth.
————————
Police Torture Dead Boy’s Mother
Stumble it!
October 20th, 2007
Oh dear. It all sounds very tragic and sad on both sides. I saw five scruffy kids all under the age of 6 with one mum looking out of it pushing a pushchair and 2 dads lurching around carrying tins of Stella this morning. The kids looked exhausted and dishevelled. The mum looked ill and the dads were out of it. It was 10.30 in the morning. I immediately wondered what would become of the kids - something was definitely not right. Where were Robert’s parents when he was being ‘restrained’? Sounds like they had left a large proportion of Robert’s parenting up to Wayne O Donoghue…..You see my point…
October 20th, 2007
On the other hand (just for balance) Bock wasn’t there watching the struggle between Wayne and Robert. I assume. Was anyone?
October 20th, 2007
That’s true. I wasn’t, and neither was anyone else. That’s why I said that, in my opinion, no crime took place.
October 20th, 2007
You mean, it was never *proved* that any crime took place (?)
October 20th, 2007
No. That’s not what I said.
In my opinion, no crime took place. That’s all. My personal opinion.
October 21st, 2007
Was the semen tested to find out whose it was, or whose it wasn’t? Was that information available to the court, or to the boy’s mother?
I wasn’t there either, but sadly the picture you paint, Bock, is a familiar scenario. An older man becoming involved in a vulnerable, lonely child’s life, becoming his “only friend”…….it is a familiar scenario for sexual abuse and that is a fact. And so is blaming the child. The only thing that can speak for the boy’s version of events is physical evidence and since I’m not party to that evidence I can’t judge. I almost hate to disagree with you, Bock; I enjoy your blog.
October 21st, 2007
The DPP didn’t consider the semen evidence relevant at all, and neither did the police. It was not presented as part of the prosecution case. There was never any suggestion by the prosecution team of sexual abuse. As far as I know, though I could be wrong about this, DNA tests indicated that the sample could have come from any of the brothers living in the house.
You’re welcome to disagree with me. I don’t mind. But suggesting that Wayne O’Donoghue was involved in sexual abuse is not based on the facts presented during the trial.
October 21st, 2007
Without banging on too much about this and sounding like I am a vociferous campaigner for a return to moral values - I repeat again - where were the parents on that fateful day or any other day for that matter? Why would a parent let a much older young man spend so much time with their young son - especially if he was vulnerable re: his behavioural difficulties?
October 21st, 2007
Well, obviously a crime took place because Wayne O’Donoghue killed Robert Holohan.
Whether he meant to or not is irrelevant and there’s rather a lot of speculation in your piece, Bock.
He simply tried to restrain a hyperactive, violent child and ended up somehow overusing his superior strength, with the result that the child lost his life
If you restrain a child with your superior strength chances are the worst he’ll come off with is a few bruises.
If you strangle a child with your superior strength chances are he’ll end up dead.
October 21st, 2007
No, Twenty. It’s not obvious that a crime took place. It’s obvious that someone was killed, and that isn’t always the result of a crime.
I think a tragedy took place, not a crime, but as I said in the piece, that’s just my opinion.
Yes, there is speculation in what I wrote, but it’s of a more benign sort than the speculation that Wayne O’Donoghue is a sexual abuser, which he is not. My authority for saying this is the trial judge, Paul Carney, who categorically stated that Wayne O’Donoghue is not a sexual abuser.
October 21st, 2007
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t buy the sexual abuser thing for a second, but O’Donoghue killed that boy.
Manslaughter is still a crime and he was found guilty of that. I don’t think he set out to kill him intentionally either but you can’t downplay it to the extent where it’s simply a tragedy and not a crime.
October 21st, 2007
That’s fair enough. He was convicted of manslaughter, even though I feel uneasy about that conviction.
My main objection is to the sexual abuse angle.
However, on the manslaughter point, I have heard people who would have some proximity to the case say that he wouldn’t even have been charged with manslaughter if he hadn’t hidden the body.
I don’t see the logical connection.
Either they believed he was guilty of manslaughter or they didn’t. Hiding the body was something that happened after the event.
October 21st, 2007
Rockmother: It’s a rural community. People aren’t so rigidly segregated by age in country areas.
October 21st, 2007
Hiding the body could be seen as a fairly natural reaction to panic. If I was on a jury, it wouldn’t influence me. Fact.
But manslaughter appears to fit the case.
By the way, your blog is loading very slowly and I don’t think my laptop is at fault.
October 21st, 2007
Nora: I’m not saying it influenced the jury. I’m saying he probably wouldn’t have been charged with manslaughter in the first place if he hadn’t hidden the body.
October 21st, 2007
I know, Bock, but why *wasn’t* it manslaughter anyway?
October 21st, 2007
I’m saying he probably wouldn’t have been charged with manslaughter in the first place if he hadn’t hidden the body.
Based on what though?
“Hello, the Gardai? Yes, I have the dead body of an 11 year old here but I didn’t mean to kill him like…”
October 21st, 2007
“Rockmother: It’s a rural community. People aren’t so rigidly segregated by age in country areas.”
I’m afraid I don’t buy that. I grew up in a country area (albeit a different country, but the similarities between Irish-settled areas of Eastern Ontario and rural Ireland are very close) and that kind of relationship, a friendship between a ten-year-old and a twenty-year-old, would not be viewed as normal. Nobody would do anything about it and lord knows nobody would say anything but it would not be seen as normal. It would be seen as one more thing not to talk about.
October 22nd, 2007
Nora: I haven’t said it wasn’t manslaughter. I have a bad feeling about this. I know he was convicted, but my gut says there’s something unsafe about it.
Twenty: I know. This kind of talk is unpopular, but what can you do?
Alberta Marlowe: I need to reiterate. There’s no question of sexual abuse in this case.
October 23rd, 2007
You said:
“In my opinion, no crime at all took place.”
Are you saying manslaughter isn’t a crime?
P.
October 23rd, 2007
Paul: You sound like you’re wearing a triumphant smirk.
Don’t put words in my mouth. I did not suggest that manslaughter isn’t a crime, and you know it well. Whatever about the usual disagreement and banter here, I won’t stand for that sort of dishonest bullshit. This isn’t a court of law, and the language used around here isn’t as forensicaly exact as you might demand. Tough.
For your benefit, I will repeat: In my opinion no crime took place. That’s different to asserting categorically that no crime took place. My opinion, Paul. Nothing more.
People have been wrongly convicted of crimes before this, by the way, so it isn’t inconceivable.
Now, in future will you try to read more carefully before you start whipping out the damning evidence and reading it to the court?
October 23rd, 2007
In my opinion no crime took place. That’s different to asserting categorically that no crime took place. My opinion, Paul. Nothing more.
But I still fail to understand how you can form that opinion when Wayne O’Donoghue clearly killed Robert Holohan.
October 23rd, 2007
I think the killing was accidental.
Your earlier example suggests sustained application of force by a much stronger person, but you can also imagine a situation where an adult struggles with a child and they fall over some obstacle like a step, fatally injuring the child. I’m not saying that’s what happened. I’m saying that’s an example of where somebody could be killed without a crime taking place.
As I already said, I have heard that the case would never have been prosecuted if he hadn’t hidden the body.
Now, I know hiding the body was reprehensible, but it can be explained by panic and fear, without sinister motivation.
October 23rd, 2007
It’s a pointless construction; a crime - the crime of at best involuntary manslaughter - did take place. If you don’t think that accidentally choking a kid should be considered a crime, then say that. The prefix “In my opinion” has as much as weight as Rosie O’Donnell’s prefix “Speaking as a mother…”; something’s either bollocks, or it isn’t.
P.
October 23rd, 2007
Would you prefer me to give someone else’s opinion? Yours, perhaps? I’ll tell you what, Paul: I’ll stop believing it. Would that make you feel better?
October 24th, 2007
From what you’re writing there Bock you’re making Wayne O’Donoghue sound rather like Ian Huntley.
October 24th, 2007
Am I? As I understood it, Huntley murdered two kids. In this case, there was no murder charge, never mind conviction.
October 26th, 2007
Didn’t one of them fall into the bath by accident and he killed the other one to shut her up?
Kill one more = hide the body, but a bit worse.
October 26th, 2007
Twenty, only Huntley said one of them accidentally fell into the bath. Let’s not rely on the word of a pervert, OK?
October 26th, 2007
In this case we, the court, the media, and you, Bock, are only relying on Wayne O’Donoghue’s word. We don’t have the other version of events, the boy’s version, and we never will. Maybe his version would be the same. Maybe it wouldn’t. It’s impossible to say what the truth is when only one side of the story is available. And as for the court saying what their relationship was or wasn’t, or whether this death was an accident or it wasn’t, courts have to work with the evidence they’ve got, the narrative they’re given. The court’s final version is probably about half the truth.
October 26th, 2007
Wrong. I’m relying on what I think might have happened. It seems to irritate people that I’m not accepting the orthodox version, even though it doesn’t matter a rat’s ass what I personally believe.
Doesn’t that sound a tiny bit like the Bush-Mandela controversy?
October 26th, 2007
a crime did take place bock otherwise why is wayne o donoghue in jail because he committed a crime simple as
October 26th, 2007
Brian: That’s a circular argument. You’ve missed the entire point.
October 27th, 2007
Twenty, only Huntley said one of them accidentally fell into the bath. Let’s not rely on the word of a pervert, OK?
Why not? You’re asking us to rely on the word (sort of) of someone who killed an 11 year old boy, hid the body then took part in the search to find him.
Perverts aren’t necessarily liars.
October 27th, 2007
I’m not asking you to do anything.
I’m telling you that I’m not convinced Wayne O Donoghue committed a crime. In my opinion, no crime took place, but that’s just my opinion.
Nothing more than that.
It’s amazing how annoyed people are that I hold this opinion. I can’t imagine what would happen if I said the Earth orbited the Sun.
October 28th, 2007
Speaking for myself, Bock, I’m not annoyed you hold this opinion. I am mystified. It’s like an otherwise sensible person holding tightly to the opinion that the earth is flat. And don’t tell me that it is - I have sailed over the horizon. Nothing happened.
October 28th, 2007
That’s fair enough. However, I’m not clinging to a belief. If I find out more about the case, I might easily change my mind.
At this moment, I’m uneasy about the decision and I’m just not convinced. Far from being a flat-earther, I think there’s an obligation in a democratic society to express concern if we have doubts about a conviction, and I have doubts about this one.
Look at the facts of the case:
1. There was no sexual assault. This was confirmed explicitly by the judge and was never suggested by the prosecution. Responding to Majella Holohan’s statement the judge said,
the accused was being branded a paedophile killer, which he was not. The tabloids stirred up such hatred for the accused he has no future in this country.
2. In passing sentence, the trial judge described the struggle between the two as being at the “horseplay” end of the scale.
I’m going to write another post about this, but you might be interested in reading exactly what the judge said:
The evidence of both pathologists was to the effect that the injuries on Robert’s body were light.
I find of particular significance that Professor Crane went on to say that the injuries were consistent with those which resulted from a restraining technique employed by several police forces in the United States. When it became apparent that this technique was causing unexpected deaths, its authorised use was terminated. This evidence suggests to me that the injuries we are concerned with here were at the horseplay end of the scale.
Now, to be honest with you, if that makes me a flat-earther, well, ready my ships. I’m off to find the edge of the world.
January 14th, 2008
i live a mile away from both families and i tell you for a fact that you never entered odonnaghues home unless you removed your shoes. roberts body was found with his sneakers seperateded from the body. now when you know this fact you know wayne is a liar because the boy more than likely was murdered inside the house. if you dont believe me check the reports about when the body was found. as i said i am a local person. i also took part in the searchs and i cant understand why wayne was never charged with obstructing the course of justice and disposing of a body that each cary a sentance that if combined would amount to 15 years.
January 14th, 2008
I must say i agree with bock, the long and short of it is, it was a tragic event from the out set when wayne was arrested i felt sorry for him, i know hiding a body for a week is hard to explain away, but who among us can say we would have done differently?? when you are scared you do things that you think you would never do. if we take a different view, wayne killed a friend i dont care how old or young he was, he would help him out and bring him places, can you imagine living with the knowledge of killing a friend. When you see him in the paper or television you can see the remorse in his face compared to some of the other scum who have been arrested for murder!.. no matter what we say there are two familieslives ruined never to be the same again.. just wanted to put my point out there..
January 16th, 2008
So Wayne is free today. I believe it was right for him to serve the time on the grounds of manslaughter. It is obvious he did not set out to murder that young boy and I dont buy into any sugestion of sexual abuse. As has been pointed out the traces of semen were miniscule and also they the source of contamination was a bathroom mat…. Traces of semen will be found in a bathroom especially one used by adolescent boys.
Wayne dessrved to serve the sentence…should have been longer in my opinion, becuase of his terrible ,almost sinister actions following Robert’s death. I know we would all panic but in fairness to hide and attempt to burn a body seems to me the actions of someone who is pretty ruthless at the least. Also to be able to keep up the charade for a week also requires a certain degree of malice.
One question though….. why was a man like Wayne O Donoghue permitted to spend so much time with a young boy? It just isnt normal. I am from a rural area and when I was 11 I played with boys and girls around my own age. I probably being very cruel here but I get the impression that Majella Houlihan was not a very good mother and I also siad from the first time I saw her on television, she simply oozes non likeability. However that is not intended to somehow start shifting the blame from Wayne. At the end of the day two families have been ruined and its nothing short of a tragedy.
January 17th, 2008
I was Listening to the news last evening about a lady who killed her 16 year old daughter, because she was verging on anorexia and the mother experienced temporary insanity, and she was not convicted. When an otherwise normal person “loses it”, logic goes out the window. Absolute and utter fear can result in any normal person behaving in a way totally alien to them, or to anyone who knows them, and none, but none of us can say otherwise, because we simply do not know what fear and shock to that degree would do to our mental state. So, in my opinion, I believe that what happened was a terrible, unfortunate accident. I think that Wayne probably put up with Robert’s hyped manner, when others wouldn’t and that he never thought too much about it. He was barely an adult himself, if you look at it logically. Although his behaviour after Robert died was pretty appalling, none of us can say that we would not have acted in this way, or similar, had we been in the same situation. He has served his time, anyone with a grain of cop on can see this young man has paid the price, and is a normal young man, who ended up in a totally bizarre, out of control situation, which has ultimately ruined his life. I sympathise with Roberts parents, but there is no one to blame for this death, and Roberts mum needs to blame someone. It was horseplay, perhaps irritation on Waynes part because of the stone throwing at his new car - a strong arm around the neck, and not realising his own strength, in a second it was over. An unfortunate accident, leave Wayne alone to try to rebuild his life, and may Robert rest in peace.
January 17th, 2008
Its a pity Wayne did what he did after Robert went missing and he helped with the search. I do think though he would still have been convicted of manslaughter if he was honest and explained what had happened. He just totally panicked. His life really is over. I do really feel so sad for Roberts parents though, its such a loss to lose a child.
January 17th, 2008
Accidentally killing someone isn’t always a crime; that’s a total misapprehension on the part of that commenter. There has to be an element of forseeability for criminal culpability to be present - an accident can be innocent, it doesn’t always have to mean anyone is at actual fault.
In this instance, you’d need to assess whether a reasonable person could or should have considered that the extent of force used to restrain that child could have caused severe injury or death. Given the technique was widely used and officially approved by police forces in the past, until the deaths started to mount, it’s a moot point. That was made plain at the sentencing stage, as was the effect of the attempted cover-up on the way the situation was viewed.
Juries are human, and so are the Gardai. If there’d been no efforts to evade discovery, charges/a conviction might never have been brought. It seems a shame that separate charges weren’t laid over the coverup and the jury advised as much; the conflation seems to have muddied the issue.
January 17th, 2008
Indeed, Olivia. And furthermore, the police who planted misinformation in Majella Holohan’s mind need to be scrutinised as well.
January 17th, 2008
Yes Wayne has been released from prison today. After three (long years to him and ridiculously short years to Robert’s parents).
The Holohan case is a very sad one, and i remember watching it develop and feeling sick to my stomach when i found out that it was Wayne’s friend, a man who had joined the search and comforted Majella during the search, had killed (accidentally or not) the young boy. It is very very sad.
I agree that it was an accident, a horrific, tragic and life changing accident. I also agree that the fact that Wayne hid the body and joined the search was an awful thing to do. But he panicked. I’m not excusing what he did, nor would i ever attempt to understand the pain that the Holohan’s are going through today.
The issue of “the police who planted misinformation in Majella Holohan’s mind” is bull. the police, a local force who would have known both families and been very close to finding this boy, have to inform the parents of any developments in the case. When semen was found on Roberts neck the person who examined it claimed that there was a 1 in 7millinon chance that it wasn’t Wayne’s. But, when another sample was found on Wayne’s bathmat doubt was cast over the the original assumption. The police informed Majella of both these things. Tell any parent a piece of information that may imply that someone they trusted with their children is a paedophile and they will believe it. People act first and think later, especially when it comes to their children. Majella should not have read out what she read out in her victim impact statement. But she did.
I take issue with people blaiming her. I really do. I have plenty of friends from rural tows that are friends with people five, ten years older then him. It comes from a small town where you may be friends with brothers and sisters of people. They trusted him and from what i understand Wayne devoted a lot of time to Robert. In today’s world some people place the care of their children with strangers, i’m sure Majella knew the family very well. Also you try telling a young boy he can’t be friends with someone.
To summarise it’s not fair to paint Wayne a paedophile nor is it fair to paint Majella as “unlikeable.” Majella lost her child and will for the rest of her life feel guilty, that loss will follow her around for the rest of her days, especially on days like today. Wayne has lost a lot too and while his loos is not as great as Majella the accusation that he was a paedophile has made him an even more marked man. Do you know what they do to people they think are paedophiles in prison?
January 17th, 2008
Megan: That’s a fairly balanced response. Although some commenters have criticised Majella Holohan, I have not, and I don’t intend to. I think it was entirely irresponsible of the police to treat the poor woman as they did. The size of the DNA sample is immaterial: as professionals they would have known that there’s a multiplicity of ways it could have been transferred, but they chose not to reveal that to Majella, which is a disgrace. Of course, if they didn’t know it, we can’t say much for their professionalism.
January 17th, 2008
Brock: Yes i agree the police are a bunch of tosspots. Trust me i’ve had enough dealings with them to know that half of the time they couldn’t solve their way out of a paper bag.
But this case… jesus… i can’t honestly say i couldn’t have done any better. And we’ll never know what made them tell her or why they did. It’s a bit like the semen.. immaterial.
January 17th, 2008
Well, maybe somebody should ask them. I think it’s far from immaterial. It looks like an attempt to punish Wayne O Donoghue by extra-judicial means using Majella as the weapon.
January 17th, 2008
Not quite fair Megan. My partner is a Garda. And he’s no Thicko.
January 18th, 2008
OK I’m just one year younger than Wayne and from the very start I didn’t believe it was premeditated or anything else. I feel it was simply a tragic accident.
Having worked with children with adhd I can tell you it is a stressful job. But I am trained to work with such children. Was Wayne, I dont think so.
For someone so young (Wayne), looking out for and being a friend was a brave and probably exhausting job. Yes he panicked and did the wrong thing but how would you have reacted.
January 18th, 2008
Wayne O’Donoghue’s life sentence is really starting in earnest now. He’s still on parole so he is not totally free now either. If someone attacked him, which is not beyond the realms of possibility, and he defends himself he will end up in court and possibly back in jail. Tricky and uncomfortable position to be in.
He will have to train for some sort of profession, to support himself, but he will find it harder than most to get a job. Anywhere he goes in Ireland people will know who he is and the reason for his unwanted fame. Even if he goes abroad, any ex pat Irish people he might meet will instantly know who he is and hence word will be spread around. He will find it very hard to find a life partner in Ireland and will always have guilt and regret hanging around his neck which will intensify if ever he should have children of his own.
He hasn’t got away scot free, he will pay for that day’s events for the rest of his life as will the Holohans.
January 19th, 2008
I’ve seen older boys and younger boys having “horse play” many times and even fighting each other agressively. I’ve never seen a child killed as a result of it or come close to it.
O’Donoghue didn’t just accidentally kill the child, he participated in the search. Would any normal human being not break down in distress and admit their crime immediately in front of the child’s parents? He displayed a very chilling side to his character.
The way O’Donoghue behaved after the death, not to mention how exactly horse play turned into physically killing a child, illustrates bahaviour associated with people more capable of murder than ordinary people who would immediately break down in shock for their crime and be arrested. Hit and run accidents are different as they culprit rarely sees the victim.
Would anyone trust O’Donoghue around their children? Sorry, but not me.
January 19th, 2008
wayne masterbated in the shower and it just so happened to get onto robert’s body! this fella murdered AN 11-YEAR OLD BOY in a fight! it’s not something that he could say was a bit of an accident! he knew that when he dumped the poor kid! How many people would have traces of sperm on them after a shower? if sperm was delibrately spread on someone they would have a good chance of washing it off themselves, even little traces of it! He molested him and killed him, i think that sounds more plausible
January 19th, 2008
The gardai investigated this fully and extensively, most of us here only know what we read in the papers, we didn’t hear the evidence in court. If there was any real doubt about WO’D’s intentions they would have got to the bottom of that during the investigation and trial. It was never confirmed that the semen was Wayne’s either. There were three other men living in the house don’t forget. Plus the fact that according to the forensic reports on Prime Time during the week, the amount of semen found on the child’s body was not indicative of a sexual attack, merely of contact.
As for his actions after the event, deplorable though they were, I think he panicked and hoped that if he got rid of the body that the whole thing would go away. That showed his own immaturity, he was only 20 after all. I’m not excusing it or applauding it but how many people knock down pedestrians and drive off? We don’t know if they got out of the car to check on their victims or not, we only know they weren’t there when the unfortunate person was found, either alive or dead. It’s the flight of denial. My gut says that Wayne O’Donoghue is probably less of a risk to anyone’s kids than he ever was before. I’d say he’d be so wary of contact with kids that he’d keep his distance carefully now.
It’s easy to hurl vitriol at someone, not so easy to think about it fairly and come up with a balanced conclusion.
January 19th, 2008
Kop On: State your source for that information immediately or else shut the fuck up.
You obviously read nothing that was written here, and you clearly want a platform for your prejudices, which I won’t provide you with.
If you want to debate the facts, that’s fine, but I won’t tolerate ill-informed accusations. There’s no evidence for what you said and Wayne O Donoghue was not convicted of murder. I won’t have bullshit being spread on this site.
January 19th, 2008
It is very sad all round for the Holohan family and the O’ Donoghue family. W O D was it appears fully prepared to accept what ever sentence was imposed by the courts for his wrong doing. His sentence now goes on for ever and has been made I would say almost unbearable and his life is being put in danger by comments like those made “by a bit of cop on”. The semen that was found on Roberts hand was said to be one in a million that it was not Wayne’s but in actual fact after checking the mat and semen was found to be belonging to a close relative of Wanes, it was then accepted it was one in a million that it could some one other than Wanes or a close family member. The Holohan’s will have to suffer Roberts loss for the rest of their lives but WOD will have to live with the guilt and shame of what happened and also the fear of being attacked, verbal abuse etc. I believe it was an accident and panic afterwards. He has severed the sentence imposed by the courts and we need to accept this and let him get on with his life. We must accept the courts decision as it is the best proof we have and any thing else is only hearsay and unproven. People that are making themselves judge and jury with hear say evidence are being evil themselves and are playing a part in murdering this young man’s character.
January 19th, 2008
During the last few days i’ve been reading the papers watching the news and listened attentivly to Waynes statement, although it will be little comfort to the Holohan family I believe these were the words of his solicitor and not Waynes it was rehearsed and read like a story he didnt lift his head once and to me showed little remorse, but during the trial and now 3 years later the same question remains unanswered, if the body was not found would there have ever been a confession I feel only when the net was closing in on him he panicked and only then confessed yes his solicitor said he admitted it from the start and took full responsibility for his actions, what else was he going to say…… anyone who had the neck to comfort the victims mother, search for the body that he was never going to find and go along to the funeral has a dangerous and calculating mind to say it was done out of panic is an understatement how long does one remain panicked Wayne O Donoghue not only took this little boy away from his family he deceived the whole country for 12 days. I know he served his time which was handed down by the courts but i think it was just not long enough shame on judge and all involved in sentencing.
January 19th, 2008
Alot of opinions here, my opinion: I find it very hard to get my head around ‘accident due to horse-play’. Big man, small child. Wayne should know his own strengths and what can kill,if u like.
U don’t strangle anybody, because we all know potentially what the result will be.
I think that Wayne could of just ‘flipped’ that day, lost the cool and went too far! I don’t believe that ‘horsing around’ can kill someone, unless of course somebody hits their head as a result etc. We have no fact of this happening.
I think 3 years is a pitiful sentence, especially where there is NO evidence to say it was an accident, only his word. People have been given longer sentences for doing alot less, at the end of the day a poor boy died as a result of his actions.
And I believe that anybody with the capability to do this, has the potential to ‘flip’ again.
I think Wayne has got away lightly and I think there is something severely wrong with the system, which is a whole other story.
January 20th, 2008
There is a reason why he was given a three year sentence and not 10 or 15 years. some may think it was a fair sentence, some may not. Wayne struck me as a quiet enough lad, but that’s just my opinion. What Kop on said can only be defined as complete and utter stupidity. You see young men on the news, day in, day out, having stabbed or shot some innocent person, and showing not one ounce of remorse. Wayne, whether it was written by his solicitor or not, has publicly apologised to the family of Robert. I said it before and i’ll say it again - i don’t condone what he did following the death of Robert, but there is not one of us here can foresee what we would do, if something went horribly wrong in a nightmare situation, so i really don’t think we are in any position to judge him.it has been said on this topic here, that many older and younger boys have “tackled” and nothing ever happened. Thank god for that, or we would have a murder on our hands on a daily basis. This was a fluke, a freak accident. I’m not the most forgiving person in the world i’ve been told, indeed, quite the opposite. But even my pig head can see what happened here. However, if it were my child that was killed, who knows what way my mind would work. I think, let Wayne try to rebuild what tatters are left of his life - i’m sure he will pay for his crime over and over again, in the duration of his life. As for Robert’s poor family - if Wayne got, say 10 years, would it ease their pain? I think not. They knew Wayne. None of us do.
January 20th, 2008
The sentence given was the sentence given by the courts. W.O’D. was prepared to accept what ever sentence was handed down. I don’t think we should be beating him up now for this as he has served the punishment handed down by the courts. As for the statement he read I believe the words expressed were expressing his sentiments but of course the statement had to be approved by his solicitor and the comment that he did not lift his head while reading the statement is not surprising as he would not be used to talking to the public in this way. Think about it, it had to be very difficult to stand up in front of the media flashing cameras and the whole country and read this statement. Yes what he done after the child dieing was wrong and I believe he accepts this, but I believe it was done in total and utter panic and once he had done this it got more and more difficult each day to come clean and I would say he was also in a daze and could not think clear. It can be difficult to see the wood from the trees when you are under severe pressure, he was also unable to confide in anybody. There are no winners in this Wayne his misfortuneate and totally innocent parents and brothers and the Holohan’s who’s son Robert RIP is gone. We may not be happy with the sentence but it is what the courts issued and he has this served and we now have a duty to let him get on with his life.
January 20th, 2008
Sun Set: i agree totally with your view. You need to have a very open mind on this one - which i think Bock has, and he has been attacked for it. There are people on this subject chatting, who i know would lynch WOD, but personally, and i can’t help it, i actually feel sorry for him. the fact that he kept his head down and didn’t look into the camera, it’ s just media, the journalists, and everyone else who wants him buried, jumping on the bandwagon, throwing reasons out why he should be burnt at the stake. It happened. He killed the boy, albeit accidentally. And I, the doubting Thomas, believe that it was an accident. He got his time, he served it, he apologised to the family, which i know is of no comfort to them. What else can he do at this stage, short of doing away with himself as a last stage to prove his utter remorse. Would that make everyone happy? Probably. Sometimes, thankfully not too often, someone makes a total and utter fuck up and given their time over again, would have acted completely differently. Is there any one of us who can say we wouldn’t change some thing we did or said? Yes this is on a completely different scale, but as i’ve said before again and again, no one knows how they will react in a certain situation. I bet if anyone asked WOD if he could change what he did, do you really think he would say No? Hardly.
January 20th, 2008
The thing that bothers me is that we will never know for sure, if it was a horrible accident,only from what WOD has said. I think if we had actual proof of this - like proof of a ‘bump of the head’ due to horse-play, then I would feel sorry for Wayne.
Whereas for all we know Wayne could of just lost the cool + ‘flipped’ that day and I think that if that was the case, then he has the potential to do so again, which also means he has got off very lightly.
I think all of our opinions about that day are only speculation and the fact is we will never know, what we believe might have happened, we will never know.
January 20th, 2008
What I said in these posts is based on the judge’s report.
January 20th, 2008
Boy Blue, proof of a bump in the head would satisfy you that it was horse play, I don’t believe that. I agree we will never be 100% sure what happened but as I have said before, this has been investigated fully by the courts and we have to accept their decision. Some people are more inclined to ignore the courts verdict and believe here say and gossip, sensational journalists who have used both the O’ Donoghue’s and the Holohan’s to sell new papers.
January 21st, 2008
I saw the footage of the apology statement and I thought he read it very well. Of course it was worded by the solicitor, but I’d say the sentiment came from Wayne himself. As to his demeanor while he was reading it, he’d been in prison constantly for three years so it was his first time out, he was faced with a barrage of flashing cameras and tv crews and it was 7 o’clock on a freezing January morning. He’s not a professional actor, what were people expecting from him? A Shakespearian enactment from a tragedy play? Sun Set makes very good points, in particular that the gutter press were trying to revive the matter, well it’s their bread and butter isn’t it - feeding on human misery and making up stories to sensationalise every situation. You only have to look at what they’ve been doing to the McCanns for the past few months. If Wayne is wise he’ll keep his head down for a while, let the fuss blow over and then test the waters, socially, to see where he’ll be able to drop anchor. I know the Holohans are the real victims here but I can’t help feeling desperately sorry for Wayne O’Donoghue.
January 21st, 2008
This has made very interesting reading. My opinion (for what it’s worth) is that it was a tragic accident and after that Wayne O Donoghue panicked and lost all sense of reason. As a mother myself of an adorable 12 year old boy, I fully sympathise with the Holohan family. But because I am a mother I also feel in my heart for Wayne O Donoghue, who I believe to be decent human being. Somebody pointed out earlier that the lady who killed her daughter because she was worried about the daughters anorexia, got off on the grounds of insanity. While trying to understand why Wayne acted the way he did after he accidentally killed Robert, I believe that he acted as someone who had lost all sense of reason - he was taken over by insanity. I’m probably not expressing myself very well. I wish him the best that life has to offer him and I wish the Holohans peace and may God help mend their broken hearts.
February 4th, 2008
Bock your assumptions on Rob’s level of ADHD are incorrect as is your assumption that Rob was not used to being refused anything. You have painted a nasty one sided picture here which exposes your bias.
I for one believe that WOD has many more questions to answer about the case. As does the DPP.
I also feel Irish people in general have questions to answer when they can feel comfortable with someone like WOD getting such a leniant sentence for the crimes he commited. As an Emigrant watching this case from afar the sympathy for WOD at home is downright disgusting.
If WOD had any honor at all he would have hung himself.
February 4th, 2008
You describe yourself as en emigrant. Are you saying you therefore have a clearer insight into the case, allowing you to say I’m biased? Or do you have some local knowledge perhaps?
February 4th, 2008
John,
I think you meant
“If WOD had any honour at all he should have hanged himself”
Of course there is no honour in suicide. The level of suicide in Ireland is a big issue that needs to be addressed and the fact that someone would encourage suicide as a course of action is disgusting.
February 4th, 2008
JPB: Indeed. I missed that comment by John.
John: If you want to go around encouraging suicide, you can fuck off and do it on someone else’s site.
February 4th, 2008
I think the point about the behaviour of hit and run drivers in the aftermath of hitting someone is quite interesting. There are a number of those every single year and yet where is the media outcry? All we ever hear is at the end of a news bulletin that Gardai are appealing for witnesses.
February 4th, 2008
That’s an interesting analogy, Dan.
Isn’t it amazing how selective we are about our killers?
Some fuckers can murder a policeman in cold blood and get out of jail within a decade. Others can slaughter people on the roads and nobody gives a toss who they are or who their victims are.
People kill children all the time, but I bet nobody can remember the killers’ names, so what is it about Wayne O Donoghue that has the moral majority in such a lather? Oh wait! Could it be because he was wrongly accused of being a paedophile?
Isn’t it a pity people aren’t getting more worked up about real paedophiles?
February 7th, 2008
Dan and Bock, It goes to show the total hypocrisy of the Irish media, when you see all the murderers and killers and the media go on and on about WOD as if he was the worst person that ever lived, when clearly he is not. We are served poorly by our media.
February 11th, 2008
I’ve been following the news about this case from Australia. We certainly have enough murders over here to be going on with, but this case, with the murderer being allowed to offer a ludicrous confession and get a slap on the wrist for punishment, the unfathomable amount of goodwill towards the murderer, and the inability of the police and court to get at the real facts of what happened, makes this case unusual and puzzling. This case would have been handled differently here. The murderer would immediately have had to undergo a lengthy assessment at a psychiatric facility to determine if he suffered from some behavioral disorder which could offer some explanation of why the crime was committed and why the cruel charade of being a helpful friend afterward were carried out. Testing of the subject might have found some indications of psychopathic personality disorder. We’ll never know now, about that, and what behaviours he exhibited in his childhood that were indicative of trouble ahead. It’s just a shame these and other procedures were not followed. One thing I think the kind hearts here don’t have to worry about is remorse and guilt on the murderer’s part, he may not be capable of those emotions, only pity for himself. Re the disposal of the body, shock and panic do not lead to washing a body after death, driving it miles away and dumping it like trash, and returning later to the scene to set fire to the trash.
February 11th, 2008
Cate: I need to correct you on a point of fact. WOD was not convicted of murder. He was convicted of manslaughter.
February 26th, 2008
Oh my God.
Or anyone’s God I, don’t have one myself. Sanity on the subject of Wayne O’Donoghue………… whatever next?
And how the prospective lynch mob object.
March 12th, 2008
As a local and a mother, I can not conceive how anyone could hold any shred of sympathy for Wayne. Unlike you Bock, I attended the trial and saw for myself the evidence and heard the Judge’s words. Yet what stood out far more than Paul Carney’s personal, if professional, opinion, was the lack of remorse expressed by the killer. There were no tears at the recollection of his actions as the consequences were read to the court, not so much as a shudder or a flinch, nor a pained expression came from o’Donoghue as he sat looking bored throughout an otherwise very emotionally charged trial.
In conflict with your earlier remark that he was neither charged nor convicted of murder, murder charges were brought. I, like the jury, would not have convicted Wayne of murder, not because I intrinsically believe him to be innocent but because the evidence presented to the court did not prove him to be guilty of murder. The prosecution did not, in my opinion, actively pursue a murder conviction, rather seemed to resign themselves to the manslaughter charge.
Your attitude towards the manslauhgter conviction does not seem in line with your otherwise unfaltering faith in Paul Carney’s own opinion. You seem totally convinced that O’Dononghue is innocent and back up your argument consistently with quotes from the presiding judge, yet it was on the Judge’s direction that the jury were unable to find O’Donoghue innocent. They were given the options of guilty of murder or guilty of manslaughter. Due to the context of his confession, the option of a not-guilty verdict was unavailable to the jury.
I find the sentence abominable for the very fact that a man who punched Charlie Bird in a pub and then gave the arresting Gardai abuse was recently sentenced to the same prison term - 4 years. Do we really equate a minor assault with the kiling of an 11 year old child?!
You seem to be under the misguided illusion that Robert was a troublesome child. I do not personally know the family at all so do not base my opinions on any bias or sense of loyalty but i have a son who is ADHD/Aspergers Syndrome and just turned 11 himself. He has always been a far easier child to handle than my neuro-typical and rather intellectually gifted 6 year old. ADHD does not equal difficult, it is a very broad spectrum diagnosis which covers everything from a difficulty to concentrate coupled with “fidgety” behaviour to the violent, uncontrollable cases that you are clearly preoccupied with. Robert was said to be mildly ADHD, meaning he was not a troublesome child, on the contrary he has been described as a pleasant, but sometimes overactive boy.
I have four brothers. Growing up we did more than just horseplay. We fought each other very physically. We tore lumps out of each other! Pushed each other down the stairs and frequently put each other in headlocks the same as described by O’donoghue. None of us died! His account does not wash with me. If a child you are wrestling collapses unconscience and you panic, the instant reaction is to phone an ambulance not dump him in a ditch. His consequent actions left an entire area fearing for the safety of their children. I live between where he killed Robert and where he dumped him and was unable to let my children outside to play. It was a horrible feeling thinking that someone had killed a child locally.
You say that you don’t believe a crime was commited. Wayne O’Donoghue himself disagreed with you when he plead guilty to manslaughter. Please don’t make such presumptive, ill-informed statements that cut a lot of people very deeply with out very careful consideration.
March 12th, 2008
Local Mother: You’re of course entitled to your views and I’ve given you space to express them here. Likewise, I’m entitled to express my views, and if I’m uneasy about the outcome of any prosecution, I’ll continue to say so. Express whatever opinion you want to, but don’t tell me what to say and don’t tell me to keep quiet.
May 30th, 2008
My problem is not with the sentence he recieved but,in comparison the sentence that someone from a more deprived background would have recieved. Judges will always favour collage boys because they came from similar backgrounds and fuck the lower classes. Flashback to Annabels.