Where do Irish-Americans Stand on This Sort of Thing?

How would you react if somebody wrote to you about the illiterate, ignorant genetic traits of Africans, or Jews?

I wrote a disparaging post about President Bush and his policies a few days ago and of course I got the usual deluge of criticism.

Not a problem. I’m a grown-up now and I don’t cry or run away.

But then I received this from one of my critics, Effinayright, in West Newbury, Massachussetts:


You really do think the sun shines from your fundament, donââ€â„¢t you. Or is a case of you spending WAAAAY too much time at the village shabeenâ….

Bottom line: Bock, an anonymous twit, does not define or validate US national security concerns. We went to war for OUR reasons, which are not subject to YOUR veto or your limp-wristed waving them off as inconsquential..

And of COURSE Irelandââ€â„¢s never waged an ââ€Å“aggressiveâ” war on foreign soil : for centuries it was filled with bog-hoppers ruled by D-list British ââ€Å“noblesâ” who found it quite easy to cow an illiterate and ignorant populace, genetic traits Bock obviously carries to this day.

But we also note your little dodge with that ââ€Å“foreign soilâ” bit: I suppose youââ€â„¢ve forgotten that recent unpleasantness with the North, which certainly sees itself as ââ€Å“foreignâ” to Eire. Quaere: Do you still burn votive candles in front of Gerry Adamsââ€â„¢ portrait?


What do you reckon guys? Suppose this American had referred to the illiterate, ignorant genetic traits of Africans, or Jews? How would that go down?

Is this kind of racial slur a normal way to conduct debate in the United States?

Is this what Americans think of the Irish?

I realise that my original post was aimed at Bush, and it was intended to make people laugh, but anyone who knows this site will be familiar with the kind of thing that goes on here.

I was a bit disappointed with all the taunts: “you are a knuckle-dragger”, “you are an idiot”. I had hoped for a better standard from Americans, but I can live with that. As I said, I’m a grown-up, and playground insults don’t hurt me.

However, I thought that comment from Effinayright revealed a great deal about the mindset behind the insult.

It suggested Ivy-League disdain and contempt for cultures he considers inferior.

And if he can be so dismissive of my culture, which is strong in America and unafraid of his kind, imagine how he would treat Iraqis at the wrong end of his gun.

Effinayright continues to shout abuse but he’ll receive no platform here, unless he apologises unreservedly for his pathetic racial insults. Is it a New England thing?

Maybe his hero, Mark Steyn, will give him space to fume.



Then we had the splendid Nomennovum, who started out by claiming to be Irish-American. When challenged on his spelling of an Irish-language phrase, here’s his reply:

You spell it your way, Iââ€â„¢ll spell it mine. Go look it up. Itââ€â„¢s like Arabic, dude. The Irish, the illiterates that they were, did not invent the Roman alphabet. So, they hardly know how to spell in their native tongue.

Interesting comment from a true Irish-American, wouldn’t you say?  Someone with a lot of pride in his culture.


kick it on kick.ie

65 thoughts on “Where do Irish-Americans Stand on This Sort of Thing?

  1. Oh Bock, I am stunned by such ignorant remarks. Sadly, the bottom feeders in the U.S. are loud, especially when they have the cover of on-line communications.
    One of the reasons that we left. Well, shrub is their knuckle-dragging role model.

    Don’t write us all off as sub-moronic racists. Many of us are quite nice and think you are the bees knees.

  2. If you saw the way the 24 hour news cycles peddle screeching soundbites and self-aggrandizing punditry as debate over here, you’d see how the average American is losing the ability to debate using only reason, the facts and a sincere desire to solve the problem at hand. Ad hominem attacks and Us against Them mentality are all we see in the mainstream media.

    Both parties are guilty of this, but the media bears final responsibility for allowing it to pose as debate. Or even discussion. Discussion is getting harder to do out here without someone getting mightily offended, because we’re all forgetting the skills – we never see them. Manners are lost (to the degree the Vice President feels it’s OK to say “Fuck you” on the Senate floor and people only respect other people like themselves.

    I love Americans – the optimism, the nobility of their founding principles – but they are no smarter or dumber as a nation than any other country. Nor is Ireland as someone implied. There are both exquisitely intelligent people and troglodytes in both.

    It seems like you touched a nerve with that post Bock. But rather than consider what it is that they’re so sensitive about, some people just stamped their feet and sniped hate back. It’s not entirely their fault – they haven’t been taught any better. And even if they have, they’ve succumbed to the temptation of yelling and carrying on like toddlers with no self-control. Men in suits do it on the telly all day long. It’s become the norm.

  3. More and more in America people are like this. I think it started with Don Rickles.

    Not all of us are like this, just the loud ones and the ones who are trying out for their own little “reality show”.

  4. Bock, the blogsphere has no shortage of smart people highlighting the hateful lunacy of Mark Steyn’s rhetoric. He’s a warmonger, racist, and he hates women.


    Amanda Marcotte has a wonderful riposte to his belief that women should be continuously pregnant in order to maintain U.S. hegemony.

    And since over 48 million Americans proudly claim their Irish heritage, he does not speak for the nation. Americans love the Irish.

  5. Well, Medbh, you’d have to wonder when you get this kind of nonsense masquerading as legitimate political discourse.

  6. I was tickled pink that an anonymous twit called you an anonymous twit.
    (Sorry, I’m not Irish-American. I’ll go away now.)


    As I said, this fool isn’t getting a platform here.

    Replace Irish with African or Jewish in his comments and see what sort of reaction there would be.


    (Anyway, we can’t have commenters writing entirely in cheap TV cliches. It’s undignified.))


  8. Do Americans really think that illiteracy is genetic? You should allow his comments just to shine a light on his abject stupidity. He obviously isn’t well versed in Irish history… in fact he doesn’t appear to be well versed in American foreign policy… fuck that; he’s just not well versed.

  9. His comment was extreme and bigoted, but yours against America was not so benign as you paint it, either.

  10. …i must be too new to make anyone’s radar: i’ve been writing recently about Karl Rove as a lecherous, absinthe-addicted, drugged up toady; I routinely refer to the WH as ‘Shrub’ or Current Occupant and VP as Dick ‘I Shoot All My Friends in the Face’ Cheney. I characterized Alberto Gonzales as a little boy, etc etc etc.

    I guess that until I become a masterful blogger like yourself I won’t get to read said arrant nonsence on my site.

    guss i’ll have to work that much HARDER then. i will get started immediately.

  11. i think sam has hit it on the head! we’ve lost the ability for civilized discourse here in the states. we are many wonderful things, but sadly, i fear we’re losing the vision of what we could be as a nation. our constitution has become a movie prop.

  12. Mike: Of course my comment wasn’t benign, but that’s because I’m not feeling benign. There’s nothing benign about invading a country for no good reason other than profit. There’s nothing benign about stimulating Islamic extremism where formerly there was none.

    And while I will continue to criticise the actions of Americans, you won’t see any gross insults relating to their genetics (Bush excepted).

    Doc: Just say something true. It’s against the law these days, I believe.

    Savannah: It’s up to you to do something about it before you really do end up living in the new Soviet Union.

  13. I would not take that person serious as it only an attempt at bullying tactics, just like what Shrub and previous administrations did and are continuing to do. If I don’t like what you are saying I will swear at you, your culture, your mother, your genes. I will insult till you back off and stop talking. Nonsense.
    There is a difference between disagreeing with what one has to say/thinks and calling someone stupid.
    No wonder Shrub is still the president… It’s an oppressive, backward thinking government supported by naive, fanatic, patriotic people who have a tendency to bully everyone into submission, brainwashed to believe their government has the best intentions whilst singlehandedly assuming the position of world police. And that’s what I have to say about it. (I do have a large number of American friends I’d give my last plate of foodand the jacket on my back, but unfortunately they are not majority in numbers.)
    Having said that, I strongly believe that incompetent, disfunctional structure of the Un-United Nations had a helping hand in this self-appointment.
    Here’s to a world without bullies!

  14. What about African Jews of Irish descent?

    I love the Irish, they were spot on being nuetral in WWII and Haughey was right to burn the Union Jack when the Nazis lost. I hold no hard feelings about us winning The Troubles.

    Ignore iggnorant yanks that think they know something about anything, watching the Quiet man does not an expert on the Irish make.
    To be sure to be sure.

  15. My brother lives in the US and has experienced racial slurs very, very frequently, so I think you’ve hit on something there.
    I have been amazed at the Americans I have met – “not very well educated” might be the kindest way to describe them. I know that’s a generalisation, but I’ve met quite a few. This fella is a case in point, and needs to hone up on our history, geography, politics and genetics!!

  16. Gaye: I don’t take him seriously. He’s a cartoon.

    Knudsen: Jesus, the low-brows are in big trouble now.

    Mairéad: Indeed. He was obviously drinking as he watched the comments appear. I was amazed how, as he became drunker, he bacame more and more abusive until finally the mask slipped, and he revealed his true self.

    What worries me is that such bigots might well be driving the impetus to war.

  17. As an Irish-Canadian I’d like to say that I hope some bridge Irish labourers built and the U.S. government hasn’t maintained because they’re spending all the American people’s tax dollars (dollars which are now tanking) on the Iraqi slaughter instead of governing their own country falls down just as this idiot and only this idiot or maybe a commentator or two he parrots without bothering to think is driving his Hummer across it, and he falls, deep into some deep dark iconic river and is asking the reason why all the way down.

  18. Dear Bock,

    You get used to it. And the green beer and criminally fake Irish accents on St. Patrick’s Day, which in this neck of the woods is an excuse for Cape Bretoners of Scots descent to get publicly wasted. According to a Jesuit magazine, I and my kind are also dysfunctional.

    I have a dear friend who is, of all things, a Florida Republican, and he holds no truck with the war or with Bush. I see older Republicans like him wondering what’s happening to their party and their country. The country which Irish immigrants helped to build, the country Bush’s government seems so intent on destroying.

  19. Well, Bushy boy did go to school up that neck of the woods, Andover I believe. Perhaps they are sticking up for their own around there. He sounds like a Know-nothing through and through (a political party that was highly anti-Irish and was subsumed into the republican party, but in this case quite a nice double-entendre of the non smutty variety).

  20. Well, my bloodlines are too diluted to seriously claim my ancestry, but on behalf of anyone of Irish descent in America, I apologize for this flaming fucking moron.

    What an ass!

  21. Bock,

    Speaking as an Irish-American, I have to say Effinayright is not so far off the mark, but for the part about Irish genetics, about which he was clearly joking. But we now know how literal you are, Bock, what with Bush’s actually thinking Saddam actually killed Mandela and all.

    I also have to say that Effingayright’s comment was funny, my humorless (but oh-so-literal) Celtic brother. Looking at my family and other Irish American families, I see the main genetic problems with the Irish are a susceptibility to addictions — alcohol, gambling, sex, pigheadedness, etc. Hell, in my family we often suffer from three or for forms of addiction at once. Just ask my beer-swilling, nymphomaniac, stubborn cousin, betting all takers that the Mother Superior won’t catch drunk in the sack with the under-aged alter boy! I know, I know. It’s not genetics I talking about, it’s something else. Bad parenting. Maybe. Societal oppression. Says people like you.

    Anyway, you seem to suffer from at least one addiction. Compounding this trait, Bock, you are also dishonest (I refer you to you recent post on Bush, which has attracted all the attention and increased the traffic to your insipid blog. Your dishonesty is only highlighted by your refusal to allow the person who is the subject of this post to comment in response to your attack. You pretend not to allow him to comment because of his “racism,” but we all know you do it out of cowardice. You don’t want to hear from him, and you certainly don’t want us to, either. So, put your faux outrage cum red herring away, Bock, and let’s hear an apology from you for your mind-numbingly stupid and dishonest post on Bush’s thoughts on Saddam and Mandela.

    And don’t get be started on your own “racism,” my anti-American Irish brother.

  22. Alberta Marlowe,

    That comment made no sense at all (except making clear your own bigoted hatreds).

    You’re drunk. (Figures.)

  23. Well, my insipid blog certainly seems to have pissed you off, my fake Irish friend.

    I’ll try and explain it to you slowly. Being against certain American policies does not make one anti-American.

    Can you tell the difference?

    And as regards your comments about drunkenness, that’s a bit rich when the man at the centre of this hoo-ha is an enraged dry drunk and one-time cocaine abuser.

    And by the way, if you don’t have the self-respect to be offended by that other guy’s remarks, you fail the test. You’re sure as hell not Irish. You’re just another scammer.

    Wouldn’t you think, Brother?

  24. I didn’t say I was Irish, Bock. I said I was Irish-American. You asked us a question, and I answered it. If you choose not to believe I am Irish-American, that’s your issue, not mine.

    Furthermore, I refuse to feign being offended by Effinayright’s light-hearted remarks. Looking at your blog, you seem to be habitually offended. Again, that’s your issue. Further, you seem to think my taking offense at your obvious anti-Americanism is silly, and, as is typical with your type, you try to pass it off as simple criticism of “certain American policies.” Yes. That’s what they all say … always. Nevertheless, once I again I cannot be bothered to get excited about it because your anti-Americanism is your issue. Just let be point out one manifestation of this disease: rampant stupidity, combined with excessive literalness, which allows you to believe anything as long as it supports your prejudices. It’s like when one sees a bunch of rowdy, red-faced, loud drunken Irish-Americans (or Irishmen) at the Saint Patrick’s Day parade. One can only think, “Yeah, THAT figures.”

    You don’t have “self-respect,” Bock — at least you have manifested not one ounce of it so far. You are silly, humorless, over-literal, mendacious, and insecure.

    But other than that I am sure you’re A-OK.

  25. Ah for pete’s sake Nomennovum, have a bigger read around than you might already have done.

    There are countless posts by Bock which more than amply illustrate that he is absolutely not over-literal. You will also find many reactions to his posts indicating many readers find him to display some degree of humour. Being silly is hardly a criticism of a blog that isn’t meant to be taken so seriously. You can only accurately call somebody mendacious if you know what they are thinking – which it appears you do given your “knowledge” of Bock’s insecurity.

    Tell me though, where did Bock ever say that Bush was “actually thinking Saddam killed Mandela”? What are the chances of an apology from you for your presumptuous thoughts on Bock’s thoughts on Bush’s thoughts?

    Oh, and if I’m wrong on that – I apologise.

  26. Nomennovum: No-one with the slightest regard for their Irish heritage would talk as you do. You’re plainly a fraud.

    As I already said, being anti-Bush is not anti-American, though I certainly disagree with many actions of your government. I also disagree with many actions of my own government but that doesn’t make me anti-Irish.

    Can’t you tell tell the difference between your government and your people?

  27. Nomennovum,

    “I didn’t say I was Irish, Bock. I said I was Irish-American.”

    Doesn’t that mean, by your own logic, you’re saying you’re not American?

    “I didn’t say I was American, Bock. I said I was Irish-American.”

    Steyn’s going to get you, you traitorous fucking immigrant.

  28. “Furthermore, I refuse to feign being offended by Effinayright’s light-hearted remarks” – Nomennovum

    And I don’t accept that they were light-hearted.

    I’ve tried to “debate” on hard-right US blogs and experienced much of the same vitriol.

    I’ve had the Euroweenie, knuckle-dragger, IRA-lover, terrorist-lover, third-world-country-ignoranus, bog-trotter, “cowed by your British masters”, lazy-ass bastard, communist, leftard, “you’re just jealous of us” rubbish up to my eyeballs.

    I’ve been told to stick my (nonexistent) dick in various places that I won’t mention here.

    And worse, they’re just itching to nuke Iran.

    But thankfully they ARE in the minority — despite throwing at me that they are “the greatest” people in the “greatest country on earth” with the “greatest president the world has ever seen”.


  29. Alberta Marlowe,

    Haven’t you sobered up yet? Make some sense, man.


    Forgive me if I don’t take seriously your claim to be the authority on who is and is not of Irish heritage.


    Sorry, I can’t help people who insist on pretending to be junior lawyers. And, if you really can’t tell from Brock’s post, you are beyond my help. Try the Special Class for remedial reading comprehension.

  30. Nora,

    What’s an “ignoranus”? Just another asshole we wish we didn’t have to look at? Well, if someone called you that, who am I to disagree?

  31. “What’s an ‘ignoranus’?”

    It’s their terribly-clever put-down spelling, sweetheart.

    “Well, if someone called you that, who am I to disagree?”

    As if I cared, angel.

  32. Nomennovum: That’s a high standard of debate you have going there, buddy.

    As you’re so annoyed about my criticism of your government, maybe you could clarify something.

    Would you be the same Nomennovum who stated as follows, HERE:

    “I do not trust the government and do not want ANY expansion of its powers. None whatsoever.”

  33. Bock,

    “As you’re so annoyed about my criticism of your government ….”

    You say so; not me. I am not annoyed by your criticism of my government. Where did I give you that impression? I think I spelled out quite clearly what I specifically found annoying. Please reread my first comment.

    Regarding that quote that you say is mine, I don’t recall making it, but it sounds like something I’d say. So I accept it. More than that, I endorse it. The United State federal government is too big.

    I am sure you would agree on the limitation of the power of the United States government, but I am also sure you would also want to limit its globalist economy and, more generally influence the United States has over world affairs. This influence flows from the size, strength, and wealth of the United States itself, and not its government. If you were honest, you would admit your complaints go beyond Bush. Your complaints against the US predate Bush. Have you forgotten Vietnam, El Salvador, Grenada, support for Israel, our various other awful actions in the Cold War like 1950’s Iran (to name just one), the Spanish-American War, the Monroe Doctrine, Manifest Destiny, the Mexican-American War, the American Indians … Slavery?

    So, I am sure there is something in that quote that you can stretch into saying that you and I agree. Then you’d further stretch it to say I am contradictory or even — gasp! — hypocritical. But allow me to preempt all this by assuming that you want to expand the power of the UN (i.e., world government) and even, in certain circumstances, the Irish government (for example, in the areas of business regulation, taxation, health care, or welfare perhaps. And allow me to point out that it’s not just the Bush government that you want to restrict. I am willing to lay money that you already know where I stand on the expansion of any world government or authority like the UN. I am willing to bet you support the expansion of any type of government that would impede the power of the United States. Care to take me up on that wager?

  34. That’s pretty limp, isn’t it – what happened to all the vitriol?

    You’re reduced to contradicting things I didn’t say.

    I never do those silly internet abbreviations, so I’ll just say it in full: Laughing my ass off!

  35. No, Brock. I’d say your response is the lame one. You failed to tell me the reason for asking the question — posted in two different threads. You must have thought it an important question, Brock, to ask it twice just to make sure I saw it.

    Pray, whatever could be the reason? Just trying to demonstrate your super-duper techno wizardry and Google skills? Was that it, Brock. Just showing off?

    Well then: clap, clap.

  36. Nomennovum,

    I am not a man. Funny you would think that. I have a good reason, though – I am a woman. What’s your excuse?

  37. A woman? Oh, sorry. My excuse? I always ignore my assumptions when confronted with hysterical incoherence. It inoculates me from charges of sexism.

  38. Posted in two threads because you’re carrying this on in two threads, buddy.

    Here’s a suggestion: instead of putting words in my mouth, why don’t you invent a list of things you disagree with, and get your imaginary friend to say them?

    It would save us all time and you could be in charge.

  39. “Posted in two threads because you’re carrying this on in two threads, buddy.” -Brock

    I just checked the other thread. I was NOT carrying on with this discussion on the other thread. I commented to another commenter on a matter unrelated to this topic. You then “corrected” my Irish, and made a fool of yourself while doing it.

    Are you allergic to the truth, Bock?

  40. Newname, you came on here with a lie in the first place, claiming to be Irish American, so don’t lecture me about the truth.

  41. He speaks Latin!

    Brock, your lies are manifest. My “lie” is evidenced only in your own fevered imagination, quisquiliae Hiberniae.

  42. Nomennovum, you were asked a question because I believe you were wrong in your assertions as to Bock’s thoughts.

    Unlike you I don’t know what the thoughts are of somebody else who hasn’t told me but I’m tempted to guess the reason you won’t answer the question I asked you is that you don’t like the answer.

    Let me try again then, and, such is your regard for the truth, see if you can actually answer the question this time rather than resorting to insult: Where exactly did Bock ever say that Bush was “actually thinking Saddam killed Mandela”?

    If it makes it easier for you, I don’t want your help; it’s your answer I want. I’m also not a junior lawyer nor pretending to be one, nor am I aware of anybody else on here doing so. Is calling people such names and refusing to answer their questions what passes for argument in your world?

  43. No dice, Eilai. That horse is beaten and bloody in the other thread. Read Brock’s post, then read the comments. Brock clearly thought Bush meant that Saddam killed Mandela.

    If you don’t see it, too bad. Just don’t ask me to point out what has been pointed out already. Everything that can be said is there.

    Go read the thread.

  44. Nomennovum,

    How many Iraqi civilians and American soldiers have died in the last twenty-four hours while you’ve sat blathering safely at your computer? Or are we not supposed to ask that?

  45. But to keep you from bursting into tears, Eolai, here is just one quote from the heroic Bock: “Dom helpfully explains that Bush really meant Saddam had killed everybody of Mandela’s character in Iraq. Isn’t it a good thing Dom is on hand to interpret Dubya for the rest of us?”

    This appears as an update to his original post. What other interpretation of Bock’s words is possible, other than he believed that Bush meant what he said to be taken literally?

  46. Nomennovum: Feel free to continue playing with yourself, but please stop throwing personal abuse at other commentators.

  47. Nomennovum,

    The whole point of the question was that I had of course read the other post – indeed the question couldn’t have existed if I hadn’t.

    So what do you do? The same again – just say you don’t want to provide an answer that you claim is there, and insult the questioner for not seeing the answer.

    But that’s not enough this time – no, this time you go back and read through all the comments, until you can find in one a statement which you think might answer the question I asked. And of course it comes with more insults. But more importantly it doesn’t answer the question at all.

    What other interpretation of Bock’s words you quote is there? How about that it wasn’t necessary for anybody to point out that Bush wasn’t being literal?

    You’ve had your chances, more than enough, but until you come out with any argument remotely intelligent you won’t be getting any further attention from me. And I’m hoping Bock ignores your repeated trolling for attention and insults.

  48. Eolai: Yeah. I’m getting very tired of this troll. Time for him to go back under the bridge, I think.

    He’s classed as spam now.

  49. I just got here.
    I haven’t seen a troll that annoying and inarticulate in quite a long while.
    No Irish American would actually say anything like that, btw.

  50. Don’t all Americans have some kind of heritage that they claim in a conversation, even if they are something like 3rd generation Irish, German, French, Portuguese, Italian, etc? When discussing the deep historical aspects of a culture, few hundred years mustn’t sound impressive enough, out comes the “my great grandfather was “. I heard this so many times with my own ears.
    It’s rather silly how a disagreement can so quickly (at comment one) become a “bash in any way can”.
    Why is it so important to say the last word and make sure that it’s a win for self, regardless whether sounding “like” a dickhead while doing so, or not.
    The way I look at it, this is Bock’s place and he can say whatever the heck he wants. Commenting is one thing, disagreeing is another, even arguing with a passion is acceptable, but turning into a hurling match of personal insults, with cultural and racist slurs, is another. Ganging up on free speech is the worst thing, and should never be given credit to. It’s just wrong.
    The mob mentality just kills me. Take a man, by himself, so gentle, kind and polite (only guessing here), put him in a group and it becomes a mob-like entity so quickly. Attack attack, don’t listen, don’t try to understand, don’t talk. Just kill… Not good.

  51. Look, this guy is an example of why we need to be concerned. We’re talking about a demented person here.

    I think as trolls go, he got quite a good run, and even though he managed to sneak in under the wire, I was probably right to delete him when I got home.

    We really don’t need to have commenters being subjected to that kind of personalised abuse by fools.

  52. There have been a few times in my life when I’ve been driven by my countrymen to hide my face in my hands, and try to make some kind of apology. Standing in the same country as someone like ‘NewName’ puts me in mind of trying to make explanations for the obnoxiously drunk relative at the wedding.

    The Bush administration’s approval ratings in this country are at a record low of 32%. 68% of us over here think we’ve got a raw deal. Many of us regard your original post with a combination of wry humor and gut-wrenching frustration, that we allowed ourselves to get into this pickle in the first place.

    No matter what the political opinion of the poster, racial slurs and epithets negate the view, in my opinion. If you can’t make your point without resorting to name calling, your point is completely invalid.This has always been the rule for social debate, and has never been more important to international relations than now.

    I am an American of Irish ancestry (3rd generation), and I can tell you that other than some good natured ribbing by friends, I’ve never been on the receiving end of a racial or cultural slur because of my Irish heritage, nor have I heard any casually tossed around at other cultures or races (genuine complaints about illegal immigration and call-center outsourcing I do not consider cultural slurs). We’re not all cretins over here.

  53. CamSavWin: Thank you for commenting. If I thought everyone in the States was a cretin, I wouldn’t bother posting about it. Some of the most civilised people I ever knew were American. That’s the whole point of what I’m writing about here. I can’t believe it’s sunk to this level over there.

  54. Well, look at what I missed!

    Generally speaking, I think when one descends to the level of personal insult, one’s argument immediately loses any validity.

    While it hurts me to say this, that…person did have valid points. The U.S. Government IS too big, too imperialist, and frankly we’ve set ourselves up for a very large fall (ala the Roman Empire).

    Bock – you do a wonderful job giving everyone a forum to have an open and honest discourse about global politics. Don’t let the narrow minded twits of the world get to you

  55. Eliza: Oh, they’re not getting to me. It would take a lot more than that, but thanks for coming in here and having your say. It’s important.

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