I’m still not there on this one, but I’ll shut up anyway .

Good luck

(word count of this post < 30).

Mind youse, methoughts that thou didst like the odd unseemly squabble?

Just ask yourself, though, did the American government start all this, and could they have responded differently, given the circumstances, even if they never needed a drop of oil for themselves?

What if they all had said, across the pond to Mr. Blair, “fuck off you english twat, this is none of our business. Go and get your own soldiers killed in a fruitless war in some country we barely recognize”?

Here’s my hypothesis: -

A great many Iraqi people - many (many) hundreds of thousands, would have been eeking out miserable (short) existences and dying quietly (off television) of painful, protracted, preventable disease, famine and civil strife while Saddam and his progeny lived it up extravagently at their expense, and this would have been set to continue unabated for many years to come despite feeble, non-enforceable UN resolutions about “food for oil” and torture of political opposition and the like.

And, what might we — you, me and our friends, neighbours, countrymen, EU neighbours etc. –be doing about any of this?

You have not responded at all to the issue I raised about corruption within the UN, and the real problems that posed for Iraqis far more than for us.

In that sense, maybe you believe your own bullshit.

Who supplied most of the chemical weaponry to Saddam Hussein - you know, the sort that was used to kill all those the Kurds and Iranians? Check it out. (No, not America,)

Let me repeat: I hate war; It is terrible; it should be the absolute last desperate resort to deal with any issue, but no one has given any evidence thus far to show me that Not going to war would have been a good thing. Maybe you have some? If so, I’ll certainly give you a fair hearing.

I think if Messrs Clinton or Gore had been in power they would have authorised the war too - eventually. Don’t forget the whole ‘war idea’ was publicized heavily (with his full cooperation) as being (quasi-leftie/sort-of socialist) Mr. Blair’s to start with. I hear no one calling him stupid.

Interesting you identify ’soft’ with ‘green’ by the way… I would gladly stop buying oil in the morning if I thought it would avoid a war anywhere. I wouldn’t see it as soft or particularly green. I’m really not sure it would matter. But, it seems you think it would, so….

I don’t know anything about your lifesytle, but IF you see a direct cause-and-effect connection between oil and war, could you cut back on your oil consumption and promote that cause with your own friends, famly, and community?

Do you, for example, buy home heating oil, or gas, or petrol, or cosmetics, or plastics, or other manufactured goods that were made with the use of oil, or do you take planes or ferries on your holidays or on business trips? Have you changed your lifestyle to put yourself on a higher moral ground when judging others?

The simple notion that we could have let Iraq get on with business as usual and sell us oil at a fair price, and all would have been well, is a lie. (Sadly.)

We are all victims of our own bullshit here, but we choose to look across the pond and laugh at the ’stupid Americans’. That’s the oldest trick in the book and it’s rubbish - or ‘bullshit’ if you prefer that (American) term.

That’s all I really have to say on this for now - unless some factual evidence comes to light to support one argument or the other - as it seems to have dragged on a bit, but please, anyone who wants to slag off my argument, feel free…Just don’t make any unfair assumptions about my state of mind or my lifestyle unless you do actually know me.

Was it Abraham Lincoln who said “I might not agree with you, but I’ll defend your right to say it”. - Or, something along those lines anyway.

(Thanks Bock for the forum)

I said leave their property alone, you come back with a transparent, soft green argument. Fits nicely with your closed off and brittle justifications for theft of a nation. You’re so far removed from the reality, that you believe you’re own shit and have become an important and willing fabric within a compliant soft under-belly, allowing yourself ( too easily) to be manipulated, allowing yourself to become immune to the slaughter of many for the benefit of a few. And I too also benefit, but at least I don’t couch my denials in bullshit.

Audrey,

Surprise yourself with you own nature and say out loud “it’s wrong for them to be there, and it’s wrong for them too kill” Nothing will happen.

The problem is folks, that it’s the same old bullshit trotted out time after time. But it’s still their property, it’s their oil, and it’s their land. Don’t get too caught up in the judgment game, that’s the man’s way of wrecking heads.

At least be truthful to yourselves.

Hey Bock,
Thanks for the opportunity.
Sorry to hear about your Christmas ailment, and that fucking mindless violence shit. I see it happening too often these days. Really worries me for my kids and my Da. What can you do?