Super Tuesday
Posted on Wednesday, February 6, 2008I was going to stay up late and follow the votes for the Democratic and Republican nominations in the States, but then I decided to short-circuit the whole thing.
How?
Very easy. I asked myself one simple question: do I care?
Now that might strike you as odd, if you’ve been following the things I said here about George W Bush, and his administration, but actually, Dubya is a bit of an aberration. I could quite happily have gone through the last two years without uttering a single word about the USA if they’d had a different President. In fact, for the most part, I’d say the identity of the US President is a matter of complete indifference to many Europeans.
So, do I care who their President is right now?
Certainly. If the most powerful and aggressive nation on Earth is led by an arrogant warmonger who might easily end all our lives, then yes, I care enough to scream abuse at him. But if the US is to be led by a semi-sane, reasonably balanced, intelligent person, then I don’t really give a rat’s arse if that person leans to the Left or leans to the Right. In America, all politicians are right-wing anyway, compared to Europe, including this benighted little backwater, and it doesn’t matter.
I look at Hillary Clinton, and I say, yeah, ok, I don’t care.
Then I look at Barack Obama, and I say, what an incredible orator, but yeah, ok, I don’t care.
And then I look at John McCain, and I say, that seems like a decent man, but yeah, ok, I don’t care.
Not good enough. This is not a good enough analysis. I must apply logic.
And so I look at the three of them again and I ask myself, will any of these candidates re-appoint Dick Cheney or Donald Rumsfeld?
No? All right then.
Yeah, ok, I don’t care.
Stumble it!
February 6th, 2008
I really care about this election. For me, it’s the most important election I’ve ever witnessed. Well, except maybe for the Tories’ defeat in ‘97.
I’m totally supporting Obama, and have done ever since his speech about condoms on World AIDS day in 2005. Whatever happens in this election, whoever wins, it’s a huge step forwards just to watch him and Clinton getting such massive support.
I’m so completely fed up with the whole “we hate America” thing (especially when it comes from Brits). Hopefully this will end all that.
February 6th, 2008
We don’t care much about Englands either. We don’t know the guys name. UK just follows us nowadays. We are interesting, at least, if not right. i don’t blame you. I want the fucking politicians to all go to hell. Then we can see change.
February 6th, 2008
I favour Obama but I could live with McCain or Clinton. Romney, however… well he is much too vague on torture and tried to defend saying that “while religion needs freedom, also, freedom needs religion.”
Too much of religious nonsense altogether.
February 6th, 2008
It’s a sad world we’re you have people like McCain or Clinton who voted for the war and you go “yeah, they’d be ok”, but in one way, they would be ok. Its all relative to Bush i think. After 8 years of that anything would be better. Apart from those Jesus-freaks. McCain is a bit too hungry for the fight. The ayatollah might have pooped his pants.
Although one should exercise caution when referencing Michael Moore, the bits in Sicko about Clinton flip-flopping on Healthcare after the Insurance industry became one of her biggest backers really put me off her.
Can’t we exhume the body of JFK and get Weta, ILM and the Henson company to reanimate it?
February 6th, 2008
I’m looking forward to not caring about the US presidency. Once Dubbya is gone a wealth of angst will evaporate around the globe.
February 6th, 2008
I have just noticed that there are 8 users on line. Don’t you people know you can get help!
February 6th, 2008
Think it was a draw so you were right not to care
February 6th, 2008
Yeah, I gave it an hour and 12 hours later there’s no great change in what was expected.
ps slight Limerick angle to a post I’ve put up…
February 6th, 2008
Don’t forget McCain hugging shrub, kissing the religious right’s ass, supporting the war, and completely abandoning the anti-torture measures in the administration’s “war on terra.”
February 6th, 2008
Annie: Indeed. I think we’d all like to move on from the “hating America” phase that Bush and his cronies caused.
Marky: What’s England got to do with it?
Sam: As long as those religious dip-shits don’t win, we’ll be doing well.
Roosta: But if we exhumed JFK there wouldn’t be a woman in America safe.
Thriftcriminal: The wicked witch will be gone?
Red Mist: Are you really a Hogan skirt, or a galosh tinker? Or perhaps a short-linkage stalking hero?
Flirty: Maybe not quite a draw. Didn’t Hillary take California?
Conan: Thanks. I’ll get to that later.
Medbh: I know. But he isn’t Bush, and there will be no Cheney.
February 6th, 2008
Strangely enough, after many years of not giving a sh** who was elected, mainly because I had no respect for any of them (except for Reagen, especially when he declared the Soviet Union illegal (during a sound/video check that accidentally went live) and that the bombing would begin in 10 minutes (no lie, I saw it myself)–this election definitely has my interest.
This is the 21st century for heavens sake and my country is still being run by an old obsolete system full of “good ‘ol boys” made up of old selfish men who put their own interests before the country’s. Time to put and end to it and either Clinton or Obama (why do we always use his first name?) is a damn good way to start. We have record voter turnouts this election and a lot of young people are getting actively involved this time around which is a real good thing to see. They’re the ones that are going to be “working” this country before long.
Like any other “civilized” country, the government rarely reflects the kind of quality of character that is exhibited by the respective people that make up the general population of said country and personally I’m sick and tired of the world judging us by the actions of our government. The Constitution allows us to replace our government (officials) with something better and more effective if we ever find the need to do so and it’s about time we began exercising that right.
“As ye sow so shall ye reap” and it looks like it’s past time we took a close look at what seed we’re using.
Just my opinion.
February 6th, 2008
Kirk:It’s inevitable that the world will judge you by the actions of your government, if your government thinks it rules the world and acts accordingly.
(BTW, Barack is his first name).
February 6th, 2008
Ahhh! I did know that and meant to change that line but I forgot to when I published the comment. I hate it when I do that. And yes, I do understand what you’re saying but for me it’s a teeth grinding thing to watch it happen especially after what I and a bunch of other idiots did while in the service and the price I’m paying for it now. Perhaps there’s a bit of angry frustration going on here as well?
February 6th, 2008
Re. McCain, he never gave an inch on torture despite the enormous pressure to do so in his own party. He spent 4 years in the Hanoi Hilton where he was tortured. His position has always been that torture is barbaric and wrong and that we should not change the rules or make any exceptions to them. It goes against every civilising ideal the country was founded on. It’s one of the reasons I can find to respect the man.
He has disappointed in the past with the Bob Jones University visit, but the Republicans do need a candidate and to me he’s the most palatable of the bunch. I do not want to see another religious nutter poisoning the debate all the way to November. Hence my hoping he gets the nomination over Romney and Huckabee. If he’d had the nomination over Bush 8 years ago, things might be very different now. He’s actually been to war and would not have been so cavalier as to listen to all the draft-dodging cabal Bush surrounded himself with and pre-empt in Iraq.
February 6th, 2008
Having said all that about McCain, I’m actually an Obama mama.
February 6th, 2008
Kirk: I understand your feelings about that. However, the experiences of servicemen — especially those injured or killed — don’t justify an immoral war. Perhaps you should be angry at the people who involved their armed forces in an illegal invasion of a foreign country.
Sam: My view exactly. I can live with him, which is more than any of us could say about Shrub.
February 6th, 2008
Bock: The war in Iraq is a whole other ball game, one that bothers me no end. My war was the Cold War and my part in it was being assigned to a special projects boat (a fast attack submarine) out of Norfolk, VA. We and the rest of the “bubble heads” during that time did our utmost best to keep this world from being turned into a nuclear nightmare so you might imagine my reaction when I have to sit and watch our government or any major government doing foolish things like that immoral war you’re talking about. Or how about the degrading relationship with Russia and the foolish things their government is up to. I’d really hate to think all the sacrifices that we and all the nations that had subs out there during that time trying to keep someone(s) from doing something incredibly stupid, were all a wasted effort.
I don’t mean to go on but from my perspective the whole situation is downright idiotic. Why did we even bother.
February 6th, 2008
I’d say you probably feel betrayed.
February 6th, 2008
I wonder how many things Bush will Veto before his time is up?
Thank god he doesn’t have much time left. They’d be going to war with Iran I suspect if he had another term. That recent incident with those boats in Iran seemed a bit too contrived to me. Especially when they have to prove it with releasing recordings.
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-president-bushs-only-achievement-in-the-middle-east-is-to-increase-the-power-of-iran-769909.html?r=RSS
They’ve shot down an Iranian civilian plane in 1988 and the best they could come up with was ’scenario fullfilment’ due to the need to carry out a job that those guys were trained for. Medals were awarded for it too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 bubble head’s indeed Kirk.
February 6th, 2008
Bock: Yes, and don’t I go on about it though? :P
Audrey: I remember that episode. Not exactly something to be proud of. How the hell could anyone mistake a civilian airliner for anything else than what it is, is beyond me.
Just so you know, the term “bubble head” is more or less an affectionate term meaning submariner at least when used by one, not to be confused with unbelievably boneheaded maneuvers by commanders of guided missile cruisers. It’s more of a derogatory term when used by a sailor on a surface ship.
February 6th, 2008
I’m an American so I took some interest in the process even though three fourths of the candidates voices have already been shut out of being heard by the media wanting to report on a horserace instead of my country’s future.
In the long run I’m not sure it will matter. Cheney and Bush will create a terrorist crises in September shortly after they bomb Iran and declare martial law and postpone the elections indefinately. I’m not exactly sure when the America I believed in died, but the fatal wound was when the current gang of thugs got appointed to office.
Anyone know of any true democracies out there, I’m thinking of relocating.
February 7th, 2008
I’d like to think you were wrong, but it’s not beyond imagination. They’re capable of it.
February 7th, 2008
I am embarassed that Georgia has Huckabee leading! Arg! Nooooo……let the REAL jihad begin!
Seriously, though, I did as I intended…I voted for McCain. He is intelligent, and has massive amounts of experience…so….
Not that anyone cares, but this is the first time in my entire voting life (16 years) that I have voted for a Republican.
I couldn’t vote for Hilary just because she’s a woman, and something about how she’s showing herself in the media is a real turn off. Does she think you have to import a pair of balls to play with the big boys?
I like Obama, he’s a great orator and visionary, but not nearly enough experience.
And it’s beginning to look as if the economy won’t shift upon a change in administration. I was reading something earlier that pointed out whenever the economy was in a downturn in the presidential election, the opposite party usually won.
I’m not sure that will happen this year.
February 7th, 2008
Not exactly looking like a walk in the park now is it? And I also hope mr. terwilliger is wrong. I shudder to think how the American people would react if Bush and Cheney tried something like that in fact, I wonder if the National Guard, who would be deployed in such a case, could bring themselves to take action against their own people (families and friends?) in the event of a mass protest against such an action. Something that’s most likely to happen if Bush and Cheney were to actually attempt such a thing.
I’d be sad to think that the American people have become so complacent that they’d just roll over and accept such blatant audacity from an obviously corrupted government. I know that we’re not, we may be sleepy but we’re hell to deal with if you wake us up the wrong way. Still, I can’t help but wonder…
Ancient Chinese Curse: “May you live in interesting times”
February 7th, 2008
Kirk: It would be very easy, and there would be almost no resistance from Americans because many of them probably wouldn’t even know a coup was happening.
The first thing to do would be to place loyal officers throughout the armed forces’ senior command structure and remove the questionable ones.
Then the National Guard would be wound up with constant warnings about threats to America’s security. There would be TV campaigns, dire predictions by the White House and the Pentagon and finally an actual event would be staged.
A national emergency would be declared and the National Guard would be turned out, but they wouldn’t be deployed in their home areas: they’d be sent where they don’t know the locals and they’d have no difficulty at all firing on strangers if ordered to do so.
If Bush and Cheney wanted to seize power, they could do it without difficulty.
February 7th, 2008
Ah, but you forget - Cheny already HAS the power, secured through our purse strings, and tied to Saudi oil.
February 7th, 2008
Bock,
I think it would be even easier than you imagine. Creating the emergency is easy, everything is in place for that, the black boxes tapping everyone’s internet can also be used to fake the cyber attack. It will be so much easier for them to simply call off the election than to try to rig another one. The outrage from the typical citizens will then be that they can’t get any good porn to look at, but somehow it will get blamed on illegal immigrants. The loyal officers are in place. The laws have been changed enough to be in of no use is stopping them.
Those of us paying attention and expressing outrage will not be facing the National Guard since they are deployed all over the globe fighting the war on Christmas or Drugs or some other made up “enemy” that can not surrender so the war can enable Haliburton to pillage the treasury in perpetuity. Those of us who stand up against it will be faced down by Blackwater mercenaries. Those who stand up for their beliefs will be faced by those who stand up for a fat paycheck.
The religion of corporate profits has been conducting their Jihad for quite a while now and I’m not sure they can be stopped. The America I grew up in wouldn’t even consider debating if torture was wrong. The only guys who tortured were bad guys. Now it’s official policy.
Sadly, most Americans will be complacent as long as they have just enough money to go shopping for stuff they don’t need and have television to entertain them.
Well that oughta be enough for someone to ask me if I have a foil lined hat.
February 8th, 2008
This pice of foild fell out of my hat this morning.
http://www.progressive.org/mag_rothschild0308
February 8th, 2008
Hmm. That’s an interesting pice of foild, Mr Terwilliger.
February 8th, 2008
Thanks Bock,
I can spell, I just can’t type.
February 9th, 2008
Hi, new here.
Lots of interesting talk. To be honest, most of my co-workers and I wished to vote for ‘none of the above’…I ended up voting for McCain. Best of the worst??
As mentioned, Obama’s a great orator, and he had a lot of good things to say, but I really don’t think he has the experience; and it seemed a bit spooky he pledged his oath of office on a Koran not a Bible. (yes, I know, freedom of religion). Hillary, well, there’s just too much previous scandal, etc. (anyway, she goes by ‘Billary’ amongst some circles)
ps. pass the tin foil, please! ;)
February 9th, 2008
Girl Friday: For the record, Barack Obama did not swear an oath on the Koran.
Members of Congress don’t swear on the Bible, the Koran or any other religious book.
If a person living in Europe can establish this fact, why don’t all Americans know it? That’s a lot spookier.
February 9th, 2008
Senator Obama was actually sworn into office holding his own Bible.
There is no Constitutional requirement that members of Congress, Senators, even the President or Vice-President be sworn in using any book whatsoever. They may choose or not choose to swear on anything they want, though I would like to see a mandate that they swear upon the Constitution if we can get Habeus Corpus put back into it.
Using the “experience” criteria, no one should ever get to do anything because they’ve never done it before. I suppose that could also mean first time voters too, but the most common example I see is people who refuse to start thinking for themselves because so far they have no experience at it.
I am spooked by the ignorance around me daily.
February 9th, 2008
Well, I thought that statement would come back to bite me. If anything, I should have said ‘allegedly’; it was hearsay that I should have followed up on with regard to his ‘oath’ taking…book or no book. ya got me there.
Politics following is an absolute trudge for me, but it’s also something too important not to be aware of.
As far as experience and thinking for yourself, I can only liken it to, say, taking a moderately seasoned intelligent nurse off of a low-acute medical floor, and throwing her into a high acuity/ICU area with a full load of patients, after only a small amount of training. Dangerous and overwhelming. Poor argument, maybe.
I do agree that people need to question things, think for themselves, ie. ‘critical thinking skills’.
“Sadly, most Americans will be complacent as long as they have just enough money to go shopping for stuff they don’t need and have television to entertain them.”
-this is what spooks me.
February 9th, 2008
HGF: There’s no-one trying to catch you out here, but that misinformation about Obama is very sinister. If I were you, I’d be worrying about the future of democracy in the USA.
This business about experience is a bit of a specious argument, in my opinion. Who has experience of being President before they’re elected? Nobody.
Anyway, you’d have to question what they mean by experience. Does McCain have forty years’ experience or one year’s experience forty times? Nobody knows the answer to that except John McCain.
February 9th, 2008
Thanks, I didn’t think you were trying to catch me out. I do appreciate when people ‘question’ me though…it makes me either more sure of my stand or it causes me to reevalute after new info is received.
I am very much concerned about the future of democracy here. This is a broad statement, but I believe this country has drifted far from its origens. It would seem the experiment is not doing so well. What did Ben Franklin say, something like, “….a Republic if you can keep it.”
Taking on a new job, regardless of the job, is always a challenge. I suppose I was speaking of life experiences, and the ‘measure’ of the man (or woman) that is built/honed over time to allow adaptibility and a ‘can do’ mentality.
February 10th, 2008
How old do you need to be? Despite his youthful appearance, Obama is 46, with a lifetime’s experience behind him.
Would he be any better if he were 56, or 66?
February 11th, 2008
well, the first thing that comes to mind is, you can spend your whole life on a farm, but that doesn’t mean you can work the clutch on the backhoe…
Seriously, the guy has an impressive list of committees, and things done. If he does make it, hopefully he’ll get some better advisors than this last go-round.
February 11th, 2008
That’s about right.
Anyway, look at all the experience Cheney and Rumsfeld brought to the administration. What a great job they did!
February 11th, 2008
Bock, (excuse the late reply. been under the weather)
In reply to your’s and Mr. Terwilliger’s replies concerning the “emergency” scenario, considering that I’m not even convinced that “911″ wasn’t a staged event, you may well be right. But let’s hope not.
February 11th, 2008
Kirk,
Just in the past week there have been news reports that the 911 Commission reports were edited to not make the Bushies look bad. We know that the report they handed out is not accurate, but if we question the facts we get labeled as some sort of lunatic conspiracy nut. This happens even if you just say you don’t think all the questions are answered, you don’t have to proclaim the whole thing a staged emergency to be labeled a kook.
Years ago I used to tell my pothead friends that Spiro Agnew and J. Edgar Hoover were killing off rock stars whose names began with J since a “J” short for joint. Brian Jones, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin. The potheads got even more paranoid than they already were, but I was just making that up.
I’m not sure I can make up the absurdities I’ve seen in the US the last 15 years. I’ve seen an impeachment for a blowjob in the privacy of his own home (albeit as a tenant rather than an owner). I’ve seen an entire election hinge upon nonsense like hanging chad in the one state where a clown running for office had his brother in charge of the state. I’ve seen the same clown who didn’t win the popular vote appointed to office by the supreme court members appointed by his father. Now I live in a country where waterboarding (fomerly known as water torture) has persons aguing that it is acceptable. I can’t make stuff like that up.
But this started out as a discussion about elections. I suppose that oblivious Americans who don’t take the time to know who or what they are voting for and listen to about any email smear of swiftboat campign without questioning it deserve just what they get for elected officials. The problem is these oblivious are my neighbors, and I deserve better even if they don’t.