Josef Fritzl, Elisabeth Fritzl and Echoes of a Concentration Camp
Posted on Monday, April 28, 2008
Some stories defeat the imagination, and I think the news coming from Amstetten in Austria is one of those stories. The depravity of this man, who imprisoned and raped his own daughter for 31 years, quite properly leaves all decent people baffled. No matter how I try, I can’t get my brain to process this information in any meaningful way.
Josef Fritzl started sexually abusing his child in 1977. Elisabeth was 11 years old. In 1984, he drugged the poor girl and locked her in a specially-adapted cellar, where she remained for almost 24 years, and where she gave birth to seven children as a result of continual rape by her father.
Fritzl forced his daughter to write a note so that the police would believe she’d run away or joined a religious cult. It worked. His wife continued to live at the house without ever finding out that her daughter was locked into the cellar. Fritzl is such a violent, terrifying, domineering individual that no-one dared question him, and the cellar was forbidden territory, even to his wife.
The first of Elisabeth Fritzl’s children, Kerstin, was born in 1988 and the second, Stefan in 1989.
Four years later, somebody left a nine-month-old infant outside the house, with a note in Elisabeth’s handwriting.
In 1994, another baby was left outside the house, also with a note, and Elisabeth’s parents became the baby’s foster parents.
In 1996, twins were born but one of the babies died within a few days. Josef Fritzl burned it in the furnace. A year later, he took the other twin upstairs to live with him and his wife.
Elisabeth had another baby, Felix, in 2002. Fritzl kept this child in the cellar with Elisabeth and Kerstin who was then 14 years old.
Earlier this month, Kerstin was admitted to hospital with a life-threatening illness, and it was only then that the police began to suspect something was badly wrong. A note from Elisabeth was found in Kerstin’s clothing and police appealed on television for Kerstin’s mother to contact them. Fritzl had no choice but to release Elisabeth, Stefan and Felix from the cellar. Neither Kerstin, Stefan nor Felix had ever seen daylight in their entire lives.
When Elisabeth, now 42, and Josef Fritzl, 73, went to the hospital, he was arrested for sexual abuse and abduction.
Elisabeth and all the children are in care. Kerstin is still in a critical condition.
Those are the bald facts, but behind them there’s a universe of suffering.
Of course, this isn’t the first time that women have been locked up and abused in Amstetten. During WW2, the town was home to two Nazi concentration camps — one for women only. They were both sub-camps of Mauthausen, where 65,000 prisoners were murdered. All camps were staffed by local people, including the brutal female camp guards and I imagine many of today’s citizens can still remember their concentration camp. Some of them are the children of the murderers and torturers who ran it.
The camp was still in operation when Josef Fritzl was 10 years old and there can be no doubt that it was a significant part of his formative years, as it was to many of Amstetten’s citizens. Isn’t it remarkable that, just as in 1939-45, the locals noticed nothing? Isn’t it remarkable that Elisabeth Fritzl’s mother, Rosemarie, noticed nothing over 24 years, and believed the word of an overbearing loudmouth? What does that remind you of?
Who knows? Perhaps evil really can seep into the stones of a town.
Or a country.
It seems Austria has a great ability to ignore ugly facts. Fritzl was convicted of rape in the Sixties, when he already had four children. The police don’t think this is relevant as it happened more than fifteen years ago, and it didn’t pose any obstacle when he became a legal foster parent to Elisabeth’s children.
With an official attitude like that, it’s no surprise that the Austrians have failed to deal with their Nazi past. When an entire country is in denial about its part in a monstrous crime like the Holocaust, it’s easy to understand how a vicious thug like Fritzl could go unnoticed.
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Previously:
Happy Holocaust Holidays
Wernher von Braun
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Elsewhere:
Austria is a look-away society
Fritzl children growl and coo to ’speak’ to each other
Former tenant: Fritzl’s son also went into cellar
Stumble it!
April 28th, 2008
This story was the saddest way possible to start my day. I don’t understand what makes a parent look at a child and think “I’ve gotta get me a piece of that” and then do it for twenty or so odd years. By keeping them prisoner, in a box. And not to point out the obvious, but the space she lived in was so small…so he raped her in front of the children as well?
Really, why are such people allowed to continue to deplete the supply of oxygen?
April 28th, 2008
Unimaginable, makes you wish that there was a fiery hell. In the meantime this piece of shit should be given a taste of his own medicine and locked in a basement cell for the rest of his miserable life. Sick depraved bastard, may he die a slow painful death.
April 28th, 2008
It would be fitting, in a truly Nazi esque way, if he were put to death (not that you folks on that side of the pond do things like that) and his brain dissected and studied for science…you know, to see what made him tick that way.
April 28th, 2008
Thanks for being clear about what he did in raping his daughter as his sexual slave for 24 plus years. The MSM has avoided naming his crime of rape.
If I read one more testimonial from a neighbor saying what a quiet/nice old man he appeared to be I will vomit.
The apathy of that community towards women and chidren’s right to protection and safety makes me ill.
April 28th, 2008
This is an unspeakable horror. But, sadly, there are people all over the planet doing hideous things in places where atrocities have already occured. This is the legacy of collective outrage … it is indeed visited upon the subsequent generations. If all war and violence were to suddenly and miraculously STOP it would still take generations for the noxious residue of the past to be purified … or it gets acted out again and again and again …. only prayer can reach into these levels.
April 28th, 2008
Eliza: It didn’t do much for my day either, but I thought I should say something about it.
And it’s true that we folks don’t put people to death any more, though I often experience bloodthirsty urges. Capital punishment is a futile punishment that degrades all involved. It certainly hasn’t reduced the crime rates in the US.
Hoof: I agree. The punishment should be of the same nature as his crimes, though I’m not sure if he should be tortured as well, as he did to his daughter.
Medbh: Indeed. What a nice old raping bastard he is. Actually, however, the MSM on this side of the pond are being quite plain about what he did.
Melanie: I was with you right up to the point where you recommended prayer. You must be new here if you don’t know what I think of religion, but you’re welcome anyway.
April 28th, 2008
In total, this day has an incredible sad hue to it, the Wexford incident, this truly, energy sapping thing and a reminder of the suffering that Polish girl went through as Finn was sent down today - WOW! I know it is easy to get news of himan tragedy/horror on a regular basis if you search for it, but all three of these made the headlines today.
It is an incredible age to witness - I often wonder what it would be like to live in prehistoric times when the kind of base nature associated with these events was what kept order. I wonder too of the future and will Human beings ever be free of the need to act like this.
The most incredible torment associated with living in these times as a human is having a sensience to realise we are capable of giving rise to this suffering but also the empathy to cry when we are even remote witness to it.
April 28th, 2008
Yeah. That’s where my right-on liberal sentiments go out the window. That rapist fucker Finn shouldn’t have been jailed. He should have had his fucking nuts cut off.
The Wexford thing is something else. I notice that some of our fellow bloggers, including the GLIB, are taking a fairly judgemental stance on it.
April 28th, 2008
I saw that - read some of the posts - think I’m too old to get involved in that kind of collective, puerile rant. Judging others dissociates us from the human species - if one is capable, we all are. As you said, the collective experience of that place during the war is probably still seeping from the stones.
The overall theme I came away with from reading some of those blogs is that it may be better to have a “guilty until proven innocent” system - then people would have to account for themselves on a more human level!
Your point about Finn emphasises my thinking on our torment - it really is a frustration that we need to “act civilised” and think “naturally”!
April 28th, 2008
WHY DO WHITE PEOPLE ALWAYS MOLEST THEIR CHILDREN!!!
April 28th, 2008
What kind of shit comment is that? Talk to me about female genital mutilation in Africa. This is not a fucking racist site, against white OR black people, so fuck off!
April 29th, 2008
A perfect example of why we should bring back burning at the stake!
April 29th, 2008
Bock - I admit, it’s not a deterrent to crime, not at all. I read several studies last year that said it didn’t matter whether a state had a death penalty or not - rates of capital crime remained the same, whether a law for capital punishment was on the books or not. And let’s face it, the system is a joke. You can be sentenced to death, and spend the rest of your natural life appealing your conviction. Obviously, there is no solution that appeals to everyone.
I think the larger issue here is that a large percentage of the prison population is mentally ill. People who are mentally ill and commit multiple nuisance crimes (breaking and entering someone’s home to, say, eat food or take a bath without real criminal intent) can land you in prison just the same as if you actually stole something. The law doesn’t make a distinction between people who chose to break the law and people who are (through no fault of their own, I feel) compelled to break the law.
In the Fritzl case, the question is this: If Fritzl chose to repeatedly rape his daughter, he is a monster. If he has a compulsion that drives him to violence towards women, does that lessen what you think of his crime, or is it still just as heinous? It’s a hard question to answer.
I don’t think of it as a punishment, or a deterrent, I simply think that there are some people who are so heinous they don’t deserve to live. I try and be judicious when handing out that title.
April 29th, 2008
Shame On these christians who are example of democrcy.
April 29th, 2008
Thank god he got caught because they would have all starved to death in that basement when Josef F died.
April 29th, 2008
I was about to say that the worst part of this is the effect on the children, but it’s not fair to pick out a ‘worst part’. All of this is just so distressing ands disgusting. If ever we need evidence of real evil in todays world, there it is.
April 29th, 2008
Austria would much rather the world waltzed and forgot their happy participation in the Holocaust.
On the wider question I believe it is time that we made a clear separation between crimes (including threats) against the person and crimes against property. The effect being to make crimes against the person subject to far stronger and mandatory sanction.
I was shocked that Finn got a 12 year sentence - rather than the possible 15 years - because he copped a guilty plea. I know why this system has come into being and I realise that in cases like this it saves the victim additional trauma, but…
April 29th, 2008
Another man arrives and lowers the bar a little bit more. How do we continue to find them…
April 29th, 2008
Do you ever think that we talk and think and write too much? Must there really always mitigating circumstances? There is nothing cerebral here. This evil exists in a parallel lawless place. Why bring it back to civilisation to deal with it? We have no means, let him stay in his dark place and let dark things happen to him.
April 29th, 2008
Doubt very much that someone didn’t know this was going on or that something was seriously amiss. When horror like this case in Austria, or even this recent event in Wexford, happens, there is, at first, a rush of general surprise but when that passes it always emerges that people suspected or downright knew but were stuck as to how to blow the cover on it and pay the price for interfering. In lesser situations of domestic abuse, bullying etc., that we ourselves can often know about, how often do we do something to help? The sad thing is that it’s easier to report the abuse of animals nowdays than that of humans.
While, the few who commit the most fearsome acts may be lunatics, those around them who know but enable/facilitate/allow have a case to answer and maybe when they start to be held accountable by law too, things might begin to change and people will speak up, even if just for their own protection.
April 29th, 2008
Good blog. My thoughts entirely. I have been horrified in the last 24 hours researching the Amstetten concentration camp.
April 29th, 2008
One can only imagine the horrors the woman must have faced while in captivity, what’s even worse is the children witnessing their mother being raped and beaten by this “monster”.
I am begining to wonder how these men conceive such ideas. The polygamists case in the US where underage girls are married to men thrice their age and the subsequent rape and abuse is also in close heels. How can we save our girls from the twisted minds of these monster men who think that they can inflict any kind of physical abuse on girls? It’s becoming a sad sad world full of sadists. I really hope this monster gets the maximum punishment and has fun in hell when he dies.
They should cut off his penis and his balls, fry it and make him eat that.
April 29th, 2008
Hi Bock,
I read this terryfying news and was horrified.
In your blog some people were talking about the death sentence.
Luckily in Japan we have a well functioning death sentence system.
For example : A sneak comes in a house to steal 100 dollars. On his way back, he found that the daughter of the house, 8 years old, who stayed in the house with her 2 brothers of 4 and 6, saw him. The sneak goes back into the house and murders all 3 children, because the girl might have seen his face and denounce him. Japanese court sentenced this man to death. I am happy it did for the mother and the father.
Many other examples..
The key for me is to look to the survivors. During court sessions, the defendants have 10 or more lawyers, while the survivors often have nobody to speak out for them.
As for Elisabeth and her children, Fritzl will be ever present for them as long as he is alive, even if he is stowed away safely in a prison, and psychologically he will continue to be a threat to them. The only way for them to feel safe, will be that this devil be under the ground.
Really bad people are better of dead.. and it is only christian society that has problems with that, because it says that people are born good…or that you should forgive your trespassers or something like that. Bullshit of course…who could you ever ask Elisabeth to forgive her father ?
April 29th, 2008
[…] draft grades; elizabeth fritzl; josef f; molly cyrus …Untitled - http://www.x-2.us/hotsheet|||Josef Fritzl, Elisabeth Fritzl and Echoes of a Concentration CampJosef Fritzl started sexually abusing his daughter in 1977. Elisabeth was 11 years old. In 1984, he […]
April 29th, 2008
Seemingly ironic, but I heard on the news just now he is on suicide watch…not a supporter of the death sentence but would go with natural law here. If he did decide to top himself then who are we to stop him.
I can relate to Eliza’s statement - sometimes there is no apparent reason that someone so outside the natural or societal norms should remain alive.
A counter to this would be the fact that we want to learn so it doesn’t happen again, but if an explanation was the effect of the depravity he saw as a child, how can we ever become so sophisticated with statistics and probability to predict such behaviour.
April 29th, 2008
There is more to this story than what we know. The idea that his wife was oblivious to what was going on in her house for 24 years …. 24 YEARS …. is un-fucking-believable.
April 29th, 2008
Ah, Wexford case? Someone want to point me towards a link?
April 29th, 2008
Hi Bock. Congratulations for this nice offending blog of yours. I am sorry I found it while doing some research on the Fritzl case, but can’t change that, and I will surely come back to read some of your archives and catch up with the latest posts.
Kobayashi, I don’t think the main thing about not having a death penalty is the belief that people are born good. One argument is that Justice has failures and there is this tiny but very present possibility of convicting someone innocent.
But a major argument is that the existence of death penalty and its execution over and over again makes the so called fair and normal society a society of killers, and trough that, all of us would be partners in violence. I don’t wish that.
This news made me feel more sad than revolted. This whole thing is irreversible. Revenge, death or prison penalties will not give E.F. her life back the way it should have been.
April 29th, 2008
Eliza, here ye go… http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0428/wexford.html
April 29th, 2008
I started a comment here yesterday but my kids interrupted me. It was way long so perhaps it’s just as well.
I can’t begin to comprehend the horror of this family. What a catalogue of evil and damage this man has wrought.
I’m not a death penalty supporter but I will not be sad to hear when this guy has been torn to pieces in jail.
April 29th, 2008
My only thought goes out to elizabeth and all of her children. Because even the three raised out of the cellar have now got to accept what the rest of the world is finding hard to comprehend. I just hope they all find some kind of peace and happiness because they truely deserve it. I wish them all well
April 29th, 2008
I wonder what his wife thought when her monstrous husband brought home nappies, baby clothes and baby food !
He also had previously been convicted of sexual assault, he has at least one other conviction, for arson, and he allegedly spent time in prison in the late 1960s.
April 29th, 2008
GOM - Thanks for the link. This article says, but doesn’t say, a lot.
A shot to the head, and a shot to the chest…sort of implies a that the killer knew the victims, doesn’t it? Are they saying murder/suicide, or is there more to this story than I know? I understand the weapon in question belongs to a family member, but have they said who?
April 29th, 2008
The man shot his wife and children, set fire to the house and then shot himself.
April 29th, 2008
great comment on a terrible story…i remember not so long ago another they elected another dangerous loudmouth Mr Haider…i don t want to sound xenofobe but maybe something is fundamentally wrong with their education… or genes
April 29th, 2008
what an awful thing to have happened. I can’t begin to imagine the effects something like this has on everyone it touches.
Re: the discussion on the death penalty..
I don’t think anyone has the right to take a life in any sense because noone can claim perfect vision/justice - mistakes do and have happened - and as someone mentioned above, the death penalty doesn’t seem to be much of a deterrent. Particularly for people who are acting out of mental illness/compulsion they have little control over.
The justice system at the moment doesn’t seem to be able to decide whether it wants to punish or rehabilitate. so it does neither.
Regardless of mental instability: it could be argued that all people are formed by their genes, formative experiences and environment - which would mean that noone is responsible for their actions. But if we look at things that way it equals anarchy. There has to be accountability. Maybe some people can be reformed. But there will always be some people who have done horrific things and can never be allowed back into society.
So instead of letting them have satellite tvs and drugs why not put them to work and actually give back something useful to society? They could make wallets or something, and give the proceeds to a worthwhile cause.
Just an idea. From what i hear of prison right now it sounds positively pleasant.
April 29th, 2008
I do not really think the history of the city that this freak comes from really has a bearing on his crimes.After all in America many horrific incidents as well and remember Fred and rose West in England.There seems to be a rottenness setting into western civilisation [i use the word lightly] in general.I have just recently returned to Ireland from the far east and am shocked at how this country has changed.In the far east crime of any kind is rare and you can walk the biggest cities [some of them many times the size of Ireland] in perfect safety any time of the day or night.Here even the small towns are no longer safe.The news here now is nothing more than a crime show.How did Ireland which was once such a pleasant place turn into such a shithole in such a short space of time?.After all we never had concentration camps here so that cannot be the cause of anything.
April 29th, 2008
GOM: Suicide watch? Let him kill himself? Why? He took the power of choice from his daughter, why exactly should he have the right to choose to take his own life? No no, he should stay alive..
I would also like to say that Austria didn’t choose to be part of WWII, they were taken over by Hitler and his army who then used them to carry out many of his horrific crimes.
April 29th, 2008
Bock - thought that might be the case. Children suffocated or poisoned? No apparent motive?
April 29th, 2008
You know….just one last thought:
You know you are still human when you are capable of feeling guilt and remorse.
And you must ask yourself, do you think Elizabeth’s father felt guilt or remorse over his actions?
Or poor Heather Wardle, whom, if she did kill herself, was seemingly so guilt ridden over the presumably accidental death of her son that she not only felt she had to hide his body but the later kill herself (if the working theory the police have now proves to be true)?
That is what separates normal folks from psychopaths - we feel guilt and remorse for actions we know are wrong…..
Sorry to ramble on, Bock….
April 29th, 2008
Heidils: “Austria didn’t choose to be part of WWII, they were taken over by Hitler and his army who then used them to carry out many of his horrific crimes”
You’re kidding, surely?
April 29th, 2008
I concede.. it is arguable…
How often do you check this thing?
April 29th, 2008
I know this has been touched on by one or two people but . . . I have always looked askance at (in the main) mothers/women who say that they had no idea what was going on when their children were being abused. I guess in some cases that could be true but there are almost always signs.
In this case there were screaming red lights. I understand that the dynamic between this bastard and his wife must have been, at the very least, warped. But her daughter was living in the celler underneath her, being raped, giving brith, bringing up (if one can even use that term) children for that many years.
What the fuck was going through her head. Seems even the most basic instinct of a mother - to protect their young - was missing.
The poor girl - an evil bastard for a father and a mother who didn’t protect her. My blood boils at what we humans do to each other.
April 29th, 2008
Tango -
Not much to do at the office today, but I concur…
At the very least, wouldn’t there be a REMARKED family resemblance?
April 29th, 2008
I have to agree with Kobayashi and Buz. Because of the Christian belief of not killing it makes carrying out the death sentence hard. And I don’t care what anyone says their is no seperation of church and state in American. I’m an American from Tennessee the buckel of the freaken bible belt and I can see that. I am atheist so must christians don’t exept my opionion. They feel that our government is too harsh anyway…Bull Sh*t.
Buz is also correct that there is this ever present nagging of if you kill someone that its later discovered they were innocent.
That said. People who commit crimes like Fritzl beyond a shadow of a doubt should die. He even confessed to the crime, but in Fritzl case I feel that death would be too good for him.
I have been on the receiving end of sexual abuse and forgive me for believing that he should get what he dished out. He should be sent to prison for 24 years and raped every other day. until he dies. He is in his 70’s, so he’ll die before his term is up. That would be the justice system at its best. No Forgiveness for him.
April 30th, 2008
Christians have no problem killing people.
April 30th, 2008
I’m not normally an eye for an eye believer, but in this case, I want this fucker to suffer for a long time. Death is too good for him.
April 30th, 2008
Thats true that some christians have no problem killing innocent people they just can’t seem to kill the ones who are evil.
April 30th, 2008
This is really shocking and meanwhile it is common in west and in US. I am sure there are many people still raping their children and having sexual pleasure with them and TO BE HONEST the difference between human and animal in western countries is that humans can talk other Characteristics the same, shame on you.
April 30th, 2008
Peace Lover: I can see from your location why you might feel angry towards Western people. but we’re not all the same, you know. I certainly feel no shame on behalf of Josef Fritzl.
April 30th, 2008
Peacelover: So you are saying that Child Rape doesnt happen in your part of the world?
Wake up!
There are sick bastards all over the world of all colours and creeds..
Thats a very blinkered and dangerous view you have there, i suppose you wouldnt have noticed if a guy in your neighbourhood did the same thing as that sort of thing doesnt happen where you come from?
April 30th, 2008
If the Jews would leave the world alone, the world would be better.
Israel is killing Palestinians bz the thousands every year. When will the world react???
Down with the Zionist state of Israel
April 30th, 2008
What kind of stupid comment is that? Fool.
April 30th, 2008
Well, being high on Google rankings will attract a broader profile :)
The price of success in blogging = the attraction of idiots who are free to comment!
April 30th, 2008
They’re not free to comment.
If I don’t like what some idiot says, I’ll delete it or ban them or both. I don’t guarantee anyone freedom of speech on this site.
April 30th, 2008
toi la nguoi Viet Nam . co le toi cung nhu tat ca moi nguoi deu cam thay dau long. nhung ke nhu Josef Fritzl co le len bi tu hinh de lam guong cho nguoi khac.
April 30th, 2008
I can’t disagree with that.
April 30th, 2008
What does that have to do with the price of rice? How did we go from a discussion about one man committing a lifetime of evil acts against his daughter to how Israel is bad? (btw, pretty sure Isreal itself is full of nice, innocent people who JUST HAPPEN to be jewish…gonna condemn them all just because of that? Nice person you are…)
April 30th, 2008
Eliza: It’s because these jerks always try to turn any discussion around to their personal obsession.
This post has nothing to do with Israel, except in regard to the Jews who were murdered at Mauthausen by the Nazis.
May 1st, 2008
Interesting Blog, many thoughts travelling through my mind. Fritzl is something from a horror novel, someone to watch learn and listen from.
Out of interest, have you ever heard domestic violence and called the police. If you answer yes to having heard it but no to calling police or notifying someone. Then perhaps you need to re-examine yourself. Our societies are becoming more and more insular, the more we do the less we are as a community. We don’t have time for extended families, street parties, whatever.
Do you listen when someone tells you something, I mean truly listen. Or do you say .. well that is sad and switch off. Do you do things in your daily life to help others, or say .. how can my small amount of help do anything, and not bother.
All these are decisions we make, rather than judge the society in Amstetten, judge your community, your life and if you find it lacking do something to fix it. Rather than whinge about the baseness of the criminal, look to the kids next door, the boy down the road. Did you smile at that street person you saw the other day? Did you look away embarrassed when that slightly kooky person on the train/bus started talking to you.
Let me know what you think
May 1st, 2008
Love your entry Auslady as it does point out the unfortunate but common society we live in. If something doesn’t affect you, then it is so much easier to ignore it and hope that it will either go away or someone else will take action, and this in itself is a sad statement about humanity.
As for Fritzl, he is one sick and perverted individual, a part of me desires that he suffers for the rest of his pitiful life and another part is craving to put a bullet in his head. Unfortunately I also believe that the story will get much worse as we find out more, after all, if he has been raping his daughter since she was 11, I don’t think it would be a stretch of the imagination to believe he would also have been raping his grand daughter and maybe the other children.
This story and the others that have come out in the recent past makes me wonder how much more of this type of thing is going on and what it says about the capabilities of the human race.
May 1st, 2008
Auslady: That’s an interesting and thoughtful comment. I think there’s always a tendency to avoid confrontation, and people do indeed put things out of their mind.
However, that isn’t a good reason to deflect attention from Amstetten. The things that happened there - both the concentration camp and what Fritzl did - are of an entirely different order of horror. We can learn something from them about the nature of human beings.
May 1st, 2008
I am not sure what we could learn. If you make the base presumption that human beings are capable of anything then the focus should be on how to prevent this from happening again at a community or societal level. If the idea is that we learn from the specific psychology of this guy then I fear we will not find an answer in our lifetime (or longer) to prevent people from doing this again.
We are still not evolved enough from our animal tendencies to entirely trust that we would not revert to base, animalistic behaviour. The problem is, our level of awareness means that we can design ways in which we have the potential to be more monsters than animals.
May 1st, 2008
In Claude Landsman’s film ‘The Shoah’, which consists entirely of interviews with witnesses from inside and close to the concentration camps, the capacity of so many people living in the vicinity of the camps to somehow dissociate from what they clearly knew was going on is ultimately the most frightening thing. They saw the victims as being ‘other’.
In Ireland we had the systematic abuse of children in orphanages and industrial schools and managed so successfully to ignore it for a long time. They were ‘bad’ children, ‘fallen’ girls and we used religious belief to bury them, not in bunkers under our gardens, but in buildings behind high walls. Even today, people who were in authority in such institutions who clearly knew what was going on, are still in positions of respect. It is enough to make one vomit.
These days, we turn our backs on the children of the violent drug gangs on our own doorsteps. They are left to the mercy of their own dysfunctional families whom we refer to as ‘animals’ and ‘knackers’ and ’scum’. Something ‘other’ than the rest of us. Today is the memorial day for the Holocaust and Bock may think the Holocaust has been turned into an industry and there may be an element of it being used on some level to justify abuses of the Palestinians, but in the memory of the dead, be they six million or less or more, wouldn’t it be something if we could at least try to stop putting labels on people, labels that enable us to see them, and particularly their children, as being something ‘other’ than ourselves.
May 1st, 2008
Roisin: You’re right to bring up the question of industrial schools in Ireland, and the Magdalene laundries. Local people in villages like Letterfrack, Glin and and Daingean not only ignored the abuses, but also used the children as slave labour. It was the same mindset as we saw in places where concentration camps operated.
I object to the Holocaust being used for nationalistic purposes because I think it was perhaps the greatest abomination ever, and I don’t like to see it used as an excuse to oppress other people.
May 1st, 2008
How do you know that he is Christian? All other sources point out that he is actually Jewish guy!
May 1st, 2008
He’s a Catholic.
May 1st, 2008
Bock .. if just one person does the right thing and watches and reports the world is a better place. We will never stop these atrocities happening, but if just 10% of the world start to open their eyes, listen and speak up … we can make a difference. The only thing to do is make a difference in your own life, we can’t affect amstetten .. particularly not me on the other side of the world. What I can do is stand up be counted and speak up when i see something wrong. Yes I will cop flak for that, but .. in the end i have to be me.
May 1st, 2008
Ignoring abuse is one thing, but I’m not sure I like the idea of self-appointed detectives watching their neighbours and reporting on everything they do. That sounds a lot like the Soviet Union to me.
There’s an important distinction to be made between reporting crime and being a busybody.
May 1st, 2008
Good Blog
What worries me is - did this freak Fritzl abuse his grand daughter - the one in hospital ? the kids have their own language, a lot of grunts and groans, how can they possibly lead a normal life having been through all that. Elizabeths life is gone, they’ve all been robbed. On the subject of killing this piece of shit - shootings too good for him, lock him in the same cellar and let some escaped inmate called Buba visit him on a regular basis !!
May 1st, 2008
i’m to feel pity for Elisabeth, she has must a feeling of agony.feel self pity and shame mind.Josef Fritzl will exterminate.
May 1st, 2008
This is beyond belief. Beyond all possible comprehension, and certainly beyond all sympathy for the monster who could do something so depraved, so inhuman, and so purely vicious.
How a ‘man’ can imprison another human being during what ought to have been the best years of her life solely for the purpose of his own wicked physical gratification defies all understanding. That his victim was his own child is even more horrid - it is sickening.
It is impossible for anyone with any jot of decency to fathom the mind of a man who destroyed his own daughter’s life and coerced her to give birth to seven children of his own flesh and blood. Someone who could imprison four of his own children in a sound-proof dungeon, and burn the body of another.
It is even less comprehensible how he could possibly have lived with himself for all those years that he committed himself to such villainy. How did his conscience (if he possesses any) not dissuade him from carrying out the plans he had been constructing since 1970, when he applied for permission to build a ‘bomb-shelter’ that was to become his daughter’s unwilling home for the greater part of her life?
No decent person can rest until this man can never walk the streets of this world ever again, until the people of this Earth are safe from his unrelenting, remorseless mind.
May 2nd, 2008
I agree neighbours should not be busy bodies .. was more if you see something bad do something about it
In our news today reports of Fritzl complaining about the prison and being upset that people found out about his secret family. He doesn’t know the half of it yet. I hope that every day he spends inside that jail he thinks of the lack of freedom he gave to Elizabeth and her children. How they will ever come to terms with the beatings they were given, or their parentage I do not know. I Hope he is uncomfortable .. can’t they put him in a cell that is 1.7 m high for life? that would be gread
May 2nd, 2008
TODAY WORLD ESPECIALLY EUROPE AND USA ARE TRYING TO BRING DEMOCRACY TO THE WORLD - LOOK NOW THEIR DEMOCRACY - I AM SURE ON THE DAILY BASIS THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE COMMIT SUCH SIN WITH THEIR DAUGHTERS ALL OVER THE WEST, SOME BY FORCE SOME AGREED BY BOTH FOTHER AND CHILD.
ANY HOW - LETS NOW AGREE THAT THEIR IS ONLY ONE WAY AND ONE SOLUTION FOR ALL THESE AND THAT IS NICE AND PERFECT RELEGION OF ISLAM - AND I AM SURE WE HAVE NOT YET HEARD OF ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN ISLAMIC SOCIETY - IF YES I WANT TO KNOW - IF NOT ISLAM IS PERFECT AND THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SURVIVE FROM SUCH DISASTER.
I AM REALLY SHOCKED AND EMOTIONALY I AM STILL FEELING SAD AND I AM IN GRIEVE SINCE I HEARD OF THIS - I WAS BORN IN 1984 AND SINCE THAT TIME THIS WOMAN WAS KEPT IN CELLAR - KEEPING HER IN CELLAR ON ONE SIDE THE WAY THIS JOSEF BEHAVED WITH HER OH GOD……. HOW COULD HE MANAGED TO SEXUALLY SATISFY HIMSELF BY HIS DAUGHTER AND TO BE FRANK TO KEEP HER LIKE A DOG. THIS IS A REALLY BAD DEMOCRACY…..
May 2nd, 2008
Yo peace lover read this islamic father doing this to his daughters in the name of islam
http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/printfriendly/0,4139,105011,00.html
Islam is even worse where dads kill their own daughters in the name of honor killing and wahts worse is so many of these incidents dont even come to light
May 2nd, 2008
As I said before Peace Lover, there are sick bastards all over the world and neither Decomcracy or Islam is to blame for it,its just that some HUMAN beings have mental problems (Look at the President of the United Sates and his Iranian Counter part) ..
I understand you love your faith and i admire that but your arguement is mute when you start blaming the actions of one sick fuck on the Type of governent system or religion that is most prelevant in the area..
I dont agree with what Bush n Blair (they are ultimatly at fault for the current violence in Iraq) have done forcing democracy on a country that clearly dont want it.But either do i want Islam forced upon me or my country,i have nothing specific against your religion but i mistrust all organised religions because they are created by men to control other people…
And you will find most people dont like having beliefs forced upon them,ie we just copped on to the Catholic junta here in ireland recently.. we dont want another bunch of preachy moralistic cunts coming in and pointing the finger … (sorry if this completely off the post but it just came out that way)
May 2nd, 2008
‘Peace lover’
Fritzl didn’t do this crime because he’s White, Catholic, Austrian, Male no more than that Islamic Rapists, raped his 5 daughters because he’s Islamic - they did these crimes because THEY are sick F**kers period.
Do you seriously think if the world became Islamic tomorrow - people like Fritzl would suddenly become human - don’t be having a laugh
May 2nd, 2008
Peace lover: It seems to me that you think it’s wrong to rape women but all right to behead them.
May 2nd, 2008
Mary and campbellini
The article Mary pasted here has no basic source,
And to be Frank Why I mentioned Relegion here is that the Relegion has full control over Humans in the past and now…..
and in order to come to the point i should say that some of the comments that bad people are found in every relegion and the blame shoul not come to the society but at the same time when we study Islam it distinguishes Humanity from the actions done by people like Josef, I know in west it is law and police who control such crime but Islam bannes these things and have great punishment for people like this who commit sin and crime and cause other people feel pain, sad and in total grieve…… I dont want to mention the Phylosophy of relegion as Islam, Christanity and Judaism are all sent from same God “Allah”, but I would like to say only this that Islam can stop such crimes and painful tragedies if it is carried out correctly and acted upon.
May 2nd, 2008
Tell that to the thousands of women murdered by the Taliban in that soccer stadium (given to the country by the west btw) for the terrible “crimes” of walking doen the street without a male relative,seeking out an eduction or whatever the male accusor decided had been done.
As you say Islam as a religion has many positive aspects to it.its just that the execution (pardon the pun) seems to be different according to different groups interpratation (this happen’s in christianity also ).There are moderate Muslims and hardline Muslims..No one should be killed because of a religious belief as murder is the ultimate insult to God (even if it is his name)-or i have been told as much..
This post is about 1 sick Austrian fuck not anything else but i felt compelled to respond to the posts by peacelover.. i will not do so again
May 2nd, 2008
Peace Lover: This discussion is not about promoting Islam or any other religion. if you want to talk about Josef Fritzl, you’re welcome to do so but please stick to the point.
May 2nd, 2008
‘Great punishment’ can be dished out to innocent people by mistake
Tell you what Peace Lover - you keep your beliefs and I’ll keep mine and the best thing we can do is not try to force them on eachother.
May 2nd, 2008
What do you mean that the article has no source? Check this url out, this is from a leading newspaper in India
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1490013.cms
Dont be so dismissive. I remeber this case very clearly as I was in Singalpore when this happened. The man clearly admitted to have raped his daughters saying islam supported this rape. And please dont make this a religious issue as it is not.
May 2nd, 2008
And what about the saudi rape victim who was to be punished for getting raped where else will you find this sorta ridiculous verdict, peacelover in Saudi arabia women are not even allowed to drive or vote.
May 3rd, 2008
This is from the Khaleej times ( now they dont have to defame islam by publishing a false story)
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/theworld/2007/March/theworld_March238.xml§ion=theworld
Peacelover first you wanted someone to show a story from the islamic world that was similar to the Fritzl story, when it was shown to you go in to the denial mode.
Democracy or Christianity is not to be blamed for what happened, Josef did not say that he did this in the name of Chrsitianity. If religion is to be banned because so much evil happens in its name then there have been so much evil in the name of islam, shouldn’t islam be wiped out in that case?
What about all the people in Austria who are helping the victim recover, aren’t they Christians? Your point is like saying just because someone breaks the traffic rules lets not have any traffic rules or even traffic.
May 3rd, 2008
Holocaust was caused by a Christian called hitler where millions of Jews were put to death but what about Christians like Oscar Schindler who rescued some of them, then is one to say that Christianity was the reason hitler did what he did? There is great good in this world and great evil that exists alongside. Lets look at the good things that come from God because good always triumps over evil.
May 3rd, 2008
Peacelover, you seem to have a very rosy and romanticized view of islam. Don’t turn a blind eye to the attrocities and the gross human rights violation that happens in the islamic world. And over emphasize the stray evil events that happen in the West. What about all the great inventions, great charities , humanitarian causes, medical discoveries that come from the West?
May 3rd, 2008
Mary: I already said this post isn’t about religion. Let it drop.
May 3rd, 2008
They knew! someone in that village knew! how could they not? how could her mother never have suspected something? How were they fed ? how did they live down there without someone knowing? I grew up in ballynanty and you could hear the man next store taking a pee! but no one knew of this yeah right give me a break. Fucking horrible people! He was such a tyrant no one dared go to the basement? or question him ? where were all his other children if his wife was so spineless? why were they allowed to foster the children of his daughter when he was a convicted rapist? why was it social services allowed him to be absent from the mandated interviews? who was not doing there god damn job. His wife is as to blame as he is how dare she be so spineless.
I will now brace myself for the attack.
May 3rd, 2008
Peacemaker how can islam be perfect? are you kidding me?
May 4th, 2008
Guys. What do I have to say to make myself plain? This post is not about Islam or any other fucking religion. How clear do you want me to make it? If you don’t give it a break, I’ll have to start blocking comments.
May 4th, 2008
im wonderd waht i say i will do it
May 5th, 2008
Having read more news on this today, I’ll sum my feelings up in one single sentence:
What a sick fuck.
May 6th, 2008
The Fritzl story of this poor poor Elisabeth has hauntd me for days. Amazing she survived at all and taught love to her children, she is a true heroine. I pray for her and the children, poor angels. After Elisabeth became grey and old did he start abusing Kerstin who finally went into shock after an attack? who knows. I think the Austrians will not reveal all the details ever, too much bad press for Austria. A foundation should be set up for this family so they can live in peace and lovely surroundings the rest of their lives.
Did Fritzl sexually abuse his older children too? Fritzl should be placed in a similar dungeon with food and water pushed thru a slot with 5.6 ceilings. Death is toogood for him. His lawyer sounds like a real creep too.
May 6th, 2008
Shannaboley,
When I heard it first I thought the wife had to know, I’m not so sure now. I don’t think their marraige was even semi normal - I think the wife was scared of him and if he said don’t go down to the basement, she didn’t go because she didn’t want to beaten. He beat the ‘upstairs’ family as well, the wife was probably relieved that Elizabeth had ‘run away’ from that home for her own sake. That tenant who was aware that Elizabeth was being raped as a child and said nothing to keep his apartment should be prosecuted, surely there was an onus on him to report that ?
May 7th, 2008
The goverment of austria have to put that MOTHER F***R in the same cellar for the rest of his life , and evryday they put a HOT EGG in his ass. and they cut his D***K & put some salt on it, till he goes to hell. if they want i’ll do it with my pleasure.
May 7th, 2008
I think police, social workers and people in general should deal more with isolated and non communicative people in society.
I don’t think that this GMO is last maniac.
May 8th, 2008
Interesting news report today from the UK telegraph (yeah i know tabloid) … http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/josef_fritzl/1934494/Josef-Fritzl-I-deserve-credit,-I‘m-no-monster.html
He deserves credit because he didn’t kill any of them, he isn’t a monster he says … O M G
May 8th, 2008
[…] noticed nothing over 24 years, and believed the word of an overbearing loudmouth? what does …http://bocktherobber.com/2008/04/josef-fritzl-elisabeth-fritzl-and-echoes-of-a-concentration-campLost world: the last days of feudal Sark - This Britain, UK - The … … his hat to the ground, […]
May 8th, 2008
Its hard not to look at this story and not be moved by emotion. What Firtzl has done is truly evil. If ever a case could be made for the death penatly then this is it. He has chosen to live outside (well outside) the norms of society and should for the good of his family be removed permantly from this world. Does it matter what his religion is or was? The anwer is no. I am no religious scholar but I cannot imagine any religion suporting or sanctioning this behaviour. Too quickly we can try to apportion blame or assign reason for actions like this. In truth, this man was evil. He did not act like this becasue of religion, politics or racial reasons. He is living proof of an evil that lives in this world and gives good reason for us all to be fearful. Each and every day we see a new story that defies beleif and sickens us to our core. The only consolation that can be drawn from stories like this is that no matter how sick and evil the person/ act is, that over time good seems to win out. He is caught and his victims are free. Small consolation but hopefully they can re build something from their shattered lives.
May 8th, 2008
I have been haunted by this story for days now. What this guy has done is so evil, that it cannot be described in words. It is unimaginable what Elizabeth and her children must have gone through. And it is unbelievable that his wife did not know about it. To dig a cellar, install gates, get food, clothing etc and go on like that for 24 years- that too unnoticed? Its horrible and this guy should be made to suffer exactly in the same way, or worse, for the rest of his life. No punishment is enough.
May 8th, 2008
I have followed Fritzl’s case for more than a week now. I had nightmares. How can such a monster live among humans? Monster or devil is too good to describe such a person. Animal??? Nahh.. If Josef Fritzl is a human being, then I rather be call an animal. Elisabeth’s mother should be ashamed of herself to let this happened, she should not defend herself. She is much more to blame. How come a wife not knowing even a little about her husband’s mental defect??? Is she stupid? It’s unacceptable!!!
May 12th, 2008
Yes, his wife is eually guilty ! She had no excuse for the fact that he let the beast to be tyranic with her and with her kids….she could have divorced him !!!!
I do not like her face at all. She is a devil and I have the feelings that she k new what was going on !
How about the rest of the family ? Why the elder siblings - who left the home- did not look for their sister during all this time ????
This is a very complicate case and there ae so many things that we do not know yet. No matter what, this monster could not have done what he has done by himself……..he had HELPERS………..
May 12th, 2008
kelly the problem with assuming that others are guilty before knowing the whole story is that you add to the pain they go through, its opinions like that which will make it hard for Elizabeth to move forward. FOcus on the person that did the acts, if others are complicit their karma will catch up with them.
May 12th, 2008
I read over the weekend that the doctor treating the family said the Mother had a nervous break down when she was told what had happened. Maybe this is why the police are sure she didn’t have anything to do with it, coupled with the fact that only his DNA was found in the cellar. I suppose eventually it will all come out, I just hope they don’t put him in a soft looney bin - too good for him by far
May 12th, 2008
I think that Rosemarie (the wife)… if she is as evil as she looks, allowed this to happen as she saw relief for herself from the monsters sexual activities. This does not excuse her in anyway, mind. She was just looking to be spared and of course, he had probably threatened her if she squealed about anything.
May 12th, 2008
Dear Auslady,
Sorry if you misunderstand my message….Try to see the whole picture !!!! OK ?
We’ll see in the end….when the truth comes out !
May 13th, 2008
I’ve just come across a related story: Anne Marie Wilson, abused for 16 years by her father, John McMillan, in and around Glasgow. He too started abusing his daughter when she was 11. What struck me was that both Elisabeth Fritzl and Anne Marie were doing everything they could to hide the truth from the outside world. Skipping PE classes so that their teachers and schoolmates would not notice bruises, etc. Why? I bet they were terribly ashamed of what was happening to them. Forget the well-known fact that children can be easily manipulated into feeling guilty and responsible for what is happening to them. But maybe there is something about us: neighbours, school friends, social workers, teachers, that makes it hard for them to talk about or report the abuse.
May 14th, 2008
Kelly that is the point you are making assumptions before the truth is known .. you talk rubbish, what if that mother is innocent, have you read all the stories about her nervous breakdown, about how she got counselling for the 3 upstairs kids re adoption and the cult she thought her daughter was in. It is people like you that go off half cocked that make more pain for people already in a painful position. Have opinions on the perpetrator but don’t make assumptions about people around him till we know. A little maturity perhaps would help you to see the bigger picture