Jul 032008
 

This is the Irish kid an Oregon cop riddled with bullets.  His name was Andrew Hanlon, and he was a 20-year-old artist.  He was also psychologically vulnerable and had overstayed his visa in the US.

No other firearm was found at the scene where Officer Tony Gonzales shot him seven times, and now the small-town police force is closing ranks against Andrew’s family.  Closing them out.  Refusing to comment.  Refusing to tell them what became of their boy.  Waiting for the trail to go cold.

The cover-up has started.

AJ’s sister and father were allowed to see the body and noted that he had two bullet holes in his arm, three in his abdomen, one in his thigh and one between his shoulder blades.

Andrew was shot in the back.

The police are closing ranks. Although a force from a nearby town is investigating, it appears that these people have considerable sympathy for Gonzales.  They’re also ill-equipped to deal with the case.  Silverton calls itself a city, but is in fact a small settlement of 7,000 people, and the police in this part of the US are not exactly at the cutting edge of investigative skill, even if they had the motivation to thoroughly investigate a fellow oficer.  As the Hanlons’ lawyer said, It’s a fraternity.

It might be more of a fraternity than we realise.  The city authorities are closing ranks, it seems. Having removed a memorial to Andrew, they then destroyed the various artworks and photos made for him by his friends.

As if that wasn’t enough, the medical examiner refused to give a copy of the autopsy report to the family, who will have to wait six weeks for information about the causes of his death.  That’s three weeks after the Grand Jury hearing.  As one correspondent put it, the report will be like an old dead herring left in unplugged refrigerator.

It seems that more than the police are closing ranks.  This looks sinister, and to my eyes, would appear to warrant a Federal investigation.  What is going on in Silverton?  What sort of place is this, where town officials, police force and the medical examiner all seem to be acting with a common purpose?

There’s a worrying hint of Silverton’s intolerant side on this Barack Obama site, of all places.

Meanwhile, Andrew’s mother can’t afford the journey to Silverton, Oregon, or the transport costs to bring her dead son home.  No way to say goodbye.

Be angry at this.  It’s a disgrace.

________________________

UPDATE:  Friends of AJ are starting to leave comments here.  If anybody wants to tell their story about their friendship with him, or if you want to tell the world about the person he is, I’ll be happy to include it as part of this post.

_________________________

UPDATE 13th July 2008


The individual who killed AJ is Tony Gonzales, a 35-year-old 240-pound former Marine, martial arts expert and cage fighter.

Gonzales has today been taken into custody on accusations of sexually abusing a minor.  Tony Gonzales is being held on allegations of two charges of first-degree sexual abuse and three of third-degree sexual abuse.

I’m happy to go with the Egan family’s description of this man in the comment section:

A power hungry, trigger-happy coward – a thug.

The story is at Oregonlive, HERE

His Myspace page shows him sitting on his motorbike, under the slogan Ride hard or don’t ride at all.

_________________________

All Bock posts on AJ Hanlon HERE

_________________________

Delivering  Justice

I believe that everyone should be held accountable. Justice must always be public, accessible and fair. Everyone is entitled to be treated with dignity and respect.

Walter M. Beglau

Marion County District Attorney

________________________

Andrew’s family have set up a fund to help with their costs.  If you’d like to contribute, these are the details.

Account name: Kate Hanlon re Andrew Hanlon Home Fund

Account number; 08376045

Sort code; 93 13 30

Bank; AIB Terenure, Dublin

________________________

 

AJ Hanlon 1988 – 2008  RIP

TESTIMONIALS

Mel Castelo:

Andrew was gentle and kind, even timid at times.
He froze at any type of confrontation or violence.
He had an ethereal imagination and loved to tell made up stories and he adored art.
He expressed himself greatly through drawing and painting.

Andrew James Hanlon.
A boy with a heart too big for this world,
an eagerness to make anyone smile or laugh
and eyes, big wondrous eyes
eyes that allowed you to see love, curiosity, compassion, sensitivity
even sadness, confusion and his inner struggle to make sense of it all.
But most of all – you could see hope.
Hope for a better tomorrow
and a brighter future.
A future that will no longer be.

Our hearts are shattered,
our souls are lost and
our spirits are broken.

We’d like to thank all those who have Andrew and our family in your thoughts and prayers.

God Bless,
Andrew’s aunt in California

The Egan Family:

Its a long time since we last met Dorothea and the Hanlons. AJ was only a toddler then. Lovely family and great kids: Melanie Jane, Eamonn Thomas and Mary Kate (as we knew them) Danielle not born back then. We knew the kids dad, Eamonn, thru family.

No one knows the full facts here but lets be straight about what we do know : AJ was riddled with bullets by this part-time police officer. No other shots have been fired either by AJ or other officers. Now think about that. Either the cop is trigger-happy or a coward!. An unarmed man! Why didn’t he simply wing him if he wanted to apprehend him.

Thousands of Irish parents including us, worry to death when we see off our kids at the Airport on their way to the States because life and attitudes have changed so much over there. Never mind the number of freaks at every corner, now the various police forces in the US seem to have been given or have assumed new powers/rules of engagement since 9/11. Lots of reports and anecdotal evidence from people who have lived and worked there tells us that the USA is fast becoming a police state.

Comments about AJ’s mental state, I believe, were off the cuff with no real diagnosis by a professional. Most teens, early 20s etc, have mental issues. Like us all in the past we have to grow up, get thru our anger, self doubt, paranoia etc..

Anyway, the bottom line: He was just a kid and he has been killed unnecessarily. I hope that cop can live with his conscience. AJ may have needed help but I cant believe, in any circumsances, that he needed to be shot to death.

RIP AJ and al our love to Dorothea, kids, Eamonn and extended family from Ger, Gina, Jamie, Ritchie and Keith Egan. Will be in touch..

Brian Keenan-Hall:

I knew Andrew Hanlon very well as I was his landlord for a couple of years. I remember the first time I met Andrew how much I taken by his gentleness and lovely soft accent. He was the essence of ability and courtesy in all his dealings with me. He was a big soft Kid with no agression in him.
He came from a good family, albeit his parents were seperated. So what ? Andrew was very well reared and it showed.

I am sixty nine years old and I could have wrestled Andrew to the ground or have had a darn good try. So why all the shooting ? The police officer in this case is either a class A coward or a man who should not be given a gun.

This was a harmless young man and his life should not haved ended in this manner. People in Ireland are astounded at this abuse of power by one of your law officers and we will not accept any cover up of the truth. Andrew was unarmed I understand (As I would expect)

Tony:

I knew Andrew very well and he was a lovely gentle lad with the biggest puppy dog eyes you ever saw.

When his mum and stepdad got married me and my mum attended the wedding and babysat for 2 weeks whilst his mum and dad honeymooned.  I took him and his sister Kate back and forth to school every day and even took Andrew to a kind of open day when he was changing schools.  Everyone thought I was his dad.

I can still see him coming down the lane with his little friend and my heart aches.

It also aches when I read about how he came from a troubled background.  This family could not be more loving and close and Andrew had a loving upbringing and was a happy child.  Don’t believe everything you read in the press.  Take it from someone who has known the family for 20 years or so.

God bless you Doro and all the family our thoughts and prayers are with you

Tyna:

I really liked working with him while he was here.  I was saddened to come back from a trip to find out he was gone.  I always waved to him around town when I saw him after we were not working together anymore. He reminded me of one of my favorite characters from a book.

God be with you my Prince Carrick.  I will miss you.

 

Kevin Lierman:

We love you A.J.

We, the young people of Silverton will defend, your honor, your character, and your dignity until the end. We will not sit down, we will not shut up. We will not let this be brushed over. We will stand in solidarity with you and your family until the truth is known.  You are an innocent beautiful person. We know you and love you and will see that your reputation is not soiled by evil and deception.

Jane Stone:

to Kevin Lierman and every young adult in Silverton who loved Andrew.  Your dedication to your beloved friend Andrew has been mind bending.  Am so sorry I forgot to mention this in my recent post.  You ARE THE ONES who got this going already, and I wish the people in Ireland could all know the work on his street memorial,  the picketing of police station, the vigils you’ve held night after night by the spot where andrew was killed.

Of course you ARE THE ONES WHO WILL LEAD US ON.  How did i miss this? Every single one of these young Silverton adults I’ve had contact with since Andrew died must be just like him  Every one of these kids walks with integrity, compassion and soul.  I am so very very proud of them.  Ireland,  please send these kids your love, ok? Yhey have been working so hard, day and night since Andrew was killed.

_____________________

Video Reports

Local people talk about Andrew

A friend remembers Andrew

Public response in Silverton

More Public response

Memorial service

______________________

Elsewhere:

RTE

BBC

Seattlepi

Breakingnews.ie

Daily Astorian

The City of Silverton

Silverton Police Department

Irish Examiner

Of Death and Conscience

The Oregonian

Mental Health Portland

  309 Responses to “Andrew Hanlon. Gunned Down By An American Cop”

Comments (306) Pingbacks (3)
  1.  

    Poor woman. She must be in hell, right now.

  2.  

    And you know the full facts Bok ? Strange that, given the fact that his family say that they do not know what happened!

  3.  

    What a sad case. I heard Andrews Mother on the radio today and she cried a mothers heartbreak.
    Having a young brother dying so far away from home and being helpless is adding to all the heartache. We had a young family member who drowned while on holidays abroad 10 years ago and it took a long time to get answers to the questions that would be readily available had he died in our own country.
    The Dept of Foreign affairs will only give consular help and will not repatriate the irish citizen home, even though they have been known to repatriate citizens of other countries back to their own home.
    Andrews family need all the help they can get now. Our thoughts are with them

  4.  

    Sam: it’s tragic.

    Pat: You’ll find that I’m not as patient with your bullshit as they are over at LK Blogger. I advise you not to start your trolling habits here because I won’t put up with it.

    Mary: it is a sad case. A very sad case.

  5.  

    The Oregonian is the local paper. Here’s how they are reporting on it: http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/07/silverton_police_investigating.html

    http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/07/police_shooting_brings_out_pro.html

    It does sound very suspicious, if it were cut and dried, then why the need for silence? The family should be putting pressure on the local police to repatriate his body.

  6.  

    This is tragic, but i would err on the side of lets wait til we find out more?

    Regardless, its still very sad.

  7.  

    It is such a horrible heartbreaking situation.

  8.  

    Terrible situation but I’d take a little while to gather the full facts before laying the blame entirely at the door of the police, given that his sister has said publicly that he had been suffering from bouts of paranoia and delusion in recent months, it’s not inconceivable to me that he may have placed himself in harms way, or perhaps not given the offending officer much of a choice. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turns out that he was unarmed and posed no threat, but given the reported mental health problems I’d be inclined to wait for the facts.

    My thoughts are with his Mother at this time.

  9.  

    Bock, I too heard the woman on the radio this morning and my heart went out to her.

    But, Lets look at the facts here, and the fact is that none of us here yet know the facts of this case. You dont, I dont & the family dont yet know.

    So, if you have the full facts on this case then lets be having them? otherwise lets wait & see.

  10.  

    Bock…

    “Pat: You’ll find that I’m not as patient with your bullshit as they are over at LK Blogger. I advise you not to start your trolling habits here because I won’t put up with it.”

    So you are still smarting over the Lisbon treaty defeat so :-)

  11.  

    shite……wish I’d read this before posting my current offering….

  12.  

    There is a lot more to this story Bock, the sister is being quote on national news as saying he was possibly skitzo homeless, he had broken into there home after she locked him out after they brought him to america to escape his neglected childhood and troubled past it was a fresh start of sorts.He had been going downhill rapidly for the past six months living on the streets and unemployed he had numerous dealings with the police.The child should have been sent home he had no buisness being put in harms way like that what the hell did she think would happen him.No visa no insurance no job no home he was lined up for danger and it sounds like the poor soul had a miserable childhood. This is the second mentally ill young man to come to harm in america for god sake if they cant handle life in ireland in a familar setting dont send them abroad . I feel sorry for all involved
    including the cop who may have been put in this position unfairly. I hope this young man is finally at peace.

  13.  

    I know this guy. He used to live on my road before he moved and was friends with my friend’s brother. This disgusts me.

    [Mod edit. This post has been translated from TXT into English, in line with this site’s policy. The death threats have also been deleted.]

  14.  

    For information:

    I don’t publish comments in txt spk. Depending on my level of sobriety or the mood I’m in, I’ll either translate them into English, or bin them.

  15.  

    Pat: No. I’m just letting you know that I operate a different policy here. You’re welcome to comment as long as the comments are constructive. I don’t like sniping, I don’t like trolling and people have been blacklisted for both in the past. As long as I pay the bills, there’s no freedom of speech on this site. What gets published here is whatever I decide goes up, and nothing more.

  16.  

    From the Irish Times Latest.

    It seems he may have been shot 7 times.

  17.  

    Citizens in Silverton are also concerned:

    http://tinyurl.com/5sr33w

    There’ll be a drip-drip feed of information (from the police) as per usual procedure. Though how they’re going to explain seven bullets fired into the body of Andrew Hanlon ……! I’m sure police forces around the United States will also be watching this with great interest.

  18.  

    Bock – I kinda have to agree with Pat on this one. Dont go condemning the Police until we have all the facts. Is that not the gist of your point about the unfair treatment of the McCanns. No Jumping to conclusions.

    It’s an awful situation for the family to have to deal with. I personally have little or no faith in the Cops ability or honesty but I’m willing to wait for the official line before I start condeming them.

  19.  

    Dessiegee: Have another look at the post and you’ll see that my major complaint is about the way the family are being treated now, and the silence surrounding the case.

  20.  

    Bock- THe thing is that the Police are dammed if they do and dammed if they dont.

    Police forces have been critisized in the past for releasing information which is incorrect ( For example the shooting on the London tube, which was factually incorrect). On the other hand police are being critisized here for being slow to release information.

    Realistically they cannot be expected to release detailed information to anybody, including the family at this stage before a full investigation is completed.

    Anything they say at this point could probably be quoted back to them in a court case. What more can they be expected to say at this time other than state the bare facts?

    What information do you think that they should be revealing at this point in time?

  21.  

    The investigation is still being conducted, and not by Silverton Police either, but by the Marion County Sheriff. Details will be released after the investigation is concluded. Certain evidence will also not be made public until after a grand jury is convened, and if the officer is found to be criminally negligent, evidence will be kept secret until after his trial. So before jumping all over the system, give it a chance to work. Also know that the Police officer was there because someone reported a burglary in progress and Hanlon was the burglar. He was mentally unstable so who knows how he responded when confronted by the officer. Incidently, he was in the United States illegally. So wait for all the facts to come out before you jump on a band wagon. It is always tragic when a young life is lost: sympathies to the family.

  22.  

    I’ve heard very few “bare facts” Pat………I think that’s one of the points the article is making. If the cop felt justified enough to kill him, the reason should be definite and released in a statement. The silence indicates that they’re not positive that he was justified to shoot……..and therefore, shouldn’t have shot. I assume it’s pretty easy for someone with training to shoot a person without killing them.

  23.  

    Pat: The police always confirm if a gun was found at the scene. Releasing that information would be a good start.

    Ke’li: it has not been established that he was either a burglar or in any way mentally ill.

    However, to follow your point, is it normal practice in the US to shoot

    a) unarmed intruders
    b) mentally ill people or
    c) illegal immigrants?

    That would be worrying.

    Jnyfox: He was shot seven times, apparently. If it turns out he was unarmed, that seems somewhat excessive.

  24.  

    Bock. That would be a good start but only part of the story…how fast were things happening, were his hands concealed, how dark was it, was he issuing threats? Did the officers genuinely feel that there lives were in danger? There are looks of potential factors to look into here.

    I would not read too much into the seven shots just yet. While it does does initially appear excessive , this is will depend on such factors as how much time elapsed between the shots, weapons involved, number of officers who fired etc.I’d also be interested to know at what distance the shots were fired as this would give an indication of the reaction time available to the officers.

  25.  

    Not seven shots, Pat. Seven hits. Seven bullet-holes.

    We don’t know how many shots were fired.

  26.  

    Bock, one lethal shot is excessive if he was unarmed. I was trying to say that they can easily incapacitate a person without killing them…….maybe he tried that six times first though. I am highly sceptical that it was justified but I’ll just have to wait and see.

  27.  

    you’re right Bock – All coppers are bastards – what was I thinking defending them….

  28.  

    Hello,

    I am sickened by Mr. Hanlon’s murder.

    This type of thing happens at least once a year here in this area, always to some marginalized person.

    Many condolences to Andrew’s family.

    I hope it’s OK that I’m quoting your blog on mine.

    Shusli
    deathandconscience.blogspot.com

  29.  

    This was a twenty year old living homeless in America with no resources. Thats a crime.

  30.  

    Shusli: Feel free to quote. And thanks for your interest.

  31.  

    Browsed a copy of the Daily Flail yesterday, had a big article saying how he was ‘troubled’ and that his family are spread all over (ie it’s a ‘broken’ family) and nobody (ie his parents) were looking out for him – father in Texas, mother moving to Spain.

    They were targeting the family. As if it’s only to be expected that the police will shoot someone dead if they’re acting disturbed and their parents are separated.

  32.  

    I do not wish to prejudge this case as it is still in the early stages.But look at all the other cases for instance the absolute riddling of an unarmed guy on his stag night outside a nightclub in America when police officers even changed their 17 shot magazines so as to continue shooting.Or the savage slaying of the young Brazilian guy on the London Tube.Or the many incidents involving our own dear An Garbage Siochana. Basically I think a lot of this caused by the fact that any incompetent power hungry thicko can become a policeman.If they are going to arm those people and give them the power of life and death over others then they need to give them strict and stringent pyschological and IQ tests to ensure that they are no threat to innocent citizens and at the first hint of incompetence they should be thrown out.As it is now they seem more interested in protecting them.The stakes are too high for this attitude.At least so far in this case I note that the policeman involved has been named.Unlike the cases here and in Britain where they have remained anonymous and given evidence or more accurately fairytales from behind screens

  33.  

    The chicago police department require all of the incoming cadets to be college educated a four year degree and all of them undergo a phy evaluation .It began about seven years ago so a lot of the macho dumb ass cops are in the retirement ranks, thank god.

  34.  

    my previous post should have said Chicago New York and Boston, although I know right after september eleven New york took young men and women that were college students but not graduates! and fast tracked them through the accademy. The concern was terrorism obviously but also that all the qualified candidates would be taken by the fire department.The cops in the boonies are pretty much life cops would be in say mayo or carlow in comparision to cops in dublin limerick or cork.Although I have to say the cops in ireland have or at least had a height requirment? here they dont, and you have small little man being given big guns and they start out like they have to prove something.

  35.  

    Folks, I am deeply saddened with some of the comments here. I knew AJ when we were children and am still good friends with his family and step-father. This is a tragedy. From what the family have found out where he was shot it is not he shot him to stop him but indeed to kill him. How can the police officer who by federal law must pass a shooting competency test be such a bad shot that he shot him in the arm abdomen thigh and back of his sholder and hit a parked car? What if someone was in the car?

    Is the way a friend of mine died justice? Is this the American way and the fact that the police officer is now on paid leave is an insult to the family of the man (a good man) he has just ruined?

    You can all say what you like about did he deserve it is the cop just doing his job?

    But it still doesn’t bring him back.

    RIP AJ you’re in our thoughts and prayers.

  36.  

    Andrew was gentle and kind, even timid at times.
    He froze at any type of confrontation or violence.
    He had an ethereal imagination and loved to tell made up stories and he adored art.
    He expressed himself greatly through drawing and painting.

    Andrew James Hanlon.
    A boy with a heart too big for this world,
    an eagerness to make anyone smile or laugh
    and eyes, big wondrous eyes…
    eyes that allowed you to see love, curiosity, compassion, sensitivity
    even sadness, confusion and his inner struggle to make sense of it all.
    But most of all – you could see hope.
    Hope for a better tomorrow
    and a brighter future.
    A future that will no longer be.

    Our hearts are shattered,
    our souls are lost and
    our spirits are broken.

    We’d like to thank all those who have Andrew and our family in your thoughts and prayers.

    God Bless,
    Andrew’s aunt in California

  37.  

    Its a long time since we last met Dorothea and the Hanlons. AJ was only a toddler then. Lovely family and great kids: Melanie Jane, Eamonn Thomas and Mary Kate (as we knew them) Danielle not born back then. We knew the kids dad, Eamonn, thru family.

    No one knows the full facts here but lets be straight about what we do know : AJ was ‘riddled with bullets’ by this ‘part-time’ police officer. No other shots have been fired either by AJ or other officers. Now think about that… Either the cop is trigger-happy or a coward!. An unarmed man! Why didn’t he simply ‘wing him’ if he wanted to apprehend him.

    Thousands of Irish parents including us, worry to death when we see off our kids at the Airport on their way to the States because life and attitudes have changed so much over there. Never mind the number of freaks at every corner, now the various police forces in the US seem to have been given or have assumed new powers/rules of engagement since 9/11. Lots of reports and anecdotal evidence from people who have lived and worked there tells us that the USA is fast becoming a police state.

    Comments about AJ’s mental state, I believe, were off the cuff with no real diagnosis by a professional. Most teens, early 20’s etc, have ‘mental issues’. Like us all in the past we have to grow up, get thru our anger, self doubt, paranoia etc..

    Anyway, the bottom line: He was just a kid and he has been killed unnecessarily. I hope that cop can live with his conscience. AJ may have needed help but I cant believe, in any circumsances, that he needed to be shot to death.

    RIP AJ and al our love to Dorothea, kids, Eamonn and extended family from Ger, Gina, Jamie, Ritchie and Keith Egan. Will be in touch…..

  38.  

    Poor Guy must have been in a distressed state. Talk about shoot first ask questions later. Thankfully we are not so trigger happy here!!!!

  39.  

    Hello,

    This news is horrible. I have been attacked as a person of irish descent several time in ashland oregon recently. A latina named [REMOVED] rammed my car and tried to kill me. Her people got her out of trouble. I saw another latina ram a car and she told me I was dead if I said anything. She was a college student at SOU by the way. A latino named [REMOVED] almost killed my dog by running her over, he got out of trouble of course. The criminals seem to control the cops. They are a psychotic and dangerous people. I can assure you that this mexican cop committed a cold blooded murder.

  40.  

    You’re not helping AJ by generalising about all Mexicans like this.

  41.  

    I knew Andrew Hanlon very well as I was his landlord for a couple of years. I remember the first time I met Andrew how much I taken by his gentleness and lovely soft accent. He was the essence of respectability and courtesy in all his dealings with me. He was a big soft Kid with no aggression in him.
    He came from a good family, albeit his parents were seperated. So what ?. Andrew was very well reared and it showed.

    I am sixty nine years old and I could have wrestled Andrew to the ground or have had a darn good try. So why all the shooting ?. The police officer in this case is either a class A coward or a man who should not be given a gun.

    This was a harmless young man and his life should not haved ended in this manner. People in Ireland are astounded at this abuse of power by one of your law officers and we will not accept any cover up of the truth. Andrew was unarmed I understand (As I would expect)

  42.  

    Correction to two typo errors. I intended to say “Essence of respectability” and that he had “No Aggression” in him.

  43.  

    ‘I made a mistake but I don’t think I deserved to get all shot up’

    PORTLAND, Oregon. – He is riddled with bullets, scars and broken bones and now he’s speaking out about what happened when police opened fire on him.

    http://tinyurl.com/6259cw

  44.  

    i am a old friend of aj’s and i know he wud never do a thing to anybody!that cop is a pussy,if he needed to use a gud to take aj down he shudnt be a cop!i hung around and skated with aj and i know he wudnt ave been carrying a gun or knife or any such weapon!

    everyone dat knew him over here is very shocked and sad to hear this news!

    he was a sound lad!will be missed!

  45.  

    sorry i ment to say gun not gud in dat last post!

  46.  

    I’d say you also meant to say “that”, not “dat”

  47.  

    The brother in laws recent addition to the story via the media is that Andrew would bang on their door at night looking for somewhere to sleep and maybe thats what he was doing that nite banging on doors looking for somewhere to sleep. I dont think this brother in law will win any family spokeperson awards.

  48.  

    I knew Andrew very well and he was a lovely gentle lad with the biggest puppy dog eyes you ever saw,When his mum and stepdad got married me and my mum attended the wedding and babysat for 2 weeks whilst his mum and dad honeymooned.I took him and his sister Kate back and forth to school everyday and even took Andrew to a kind of open day when he was changing schools,Everyone thought I was his dad,I can still see him coming down the lane with his little friend and my heart aches.It also aches when I read about how he came from a troubled background,this family could not be more loving and close and Andrew had a loving upbringing and was a happy child,dont believe everything you read in the press,take it from someone who has known the family for 20 years or so,God bless you Doro and all the family our thoughts and prayers are with you

  49.  

    I am a citizen of Silverton, Oregon. My wife and 2 kids have made a home here and we love it. In driving around the countryside, ironically, I am often reminded of the rolling, lush hills of Ireland.

    I came to Ireland very soon after the terrorist attacks in New York, DC, and Penn. I was struck by how compassionate and sympathetic the Irish people were when they realized I was an American. Of course, this was before our President and his crew squandered the good will of the world and sullied our reputation.

    Nonetheless, I find myself in the position of being able to show compassion and empathy to the people who are suffering in light of this tragedy.

    As a U.S. citizen, and a resident of Silverton, Oregon, my family and I wish to express our shock and most sincere heartfelt regret that this horrible thing happened at all. I hope that the Marion County District Attorney and Silverton Police are held accountable as they should be. I also want it to be known that Silverton residents as a whole are in a state of shock and wish for swift resolution and healing. Our thoughts and good wishes are with anyone touched by this tragedy.

  50.  

    Bock, I think it is worthy of mentioning that the Silverton Police Dept is not necessarily closing the family out. The investigation is being led by a neighboring police force in Woodburn, Oregon and managed by the Marion County District Attorney’s office. By order of the D.A., Silverton Police are not allowed to comment. In fact, recently, a comment was made by the Silverton Police that they support Rodriguez and believe he will be cleared by a Grand Jury. The D.A. publicly rebuked the Silverton Police for making the comment – called it premature and irresponsible.
    This leads me to believe the shooting was NOT justified and that this will become public very soon (today or Monday the DA is to make an announcement). That said, I agree that the justice system is guilty of shutting out the victims family in the case of police shootings. I would imagine this tendency is compounded when the parents are not local U.S. citizens.

  51.  

    Has anybody heard when Andrew is being brought home to Ireland for burial? I heard a report on the Gerry Ryan show this week that the Silverton P.D said they were justified in shooting Andrew. I do not think so Silverton P.D. Thank goodness that there are enough of us around who can vouch for Andrew’s good character. He was one of the grandest lads you could ever ask to meet. And all of us know that Andrew was not aggressive so this matter should have been handled differently

  52.  

    AJ

    I really liked working with him while he was here. I was saddened to come back from a trip to find out he was gone. I always waved to him around town when I saw him after we were not working together anymore. He reminded me of one of my favorite characters from a book.
    God be with you my Prince Carrick. I will miss you

  53.  

    So the scumbag that took AJ’s life is behind bars tonight!! He has been arrested and charged with the sexual abuse of a young girl!

    A power hungry, trigger-happy coward – a thug. How many more victims are there of Gonzalez. You don’t become a Power abuser overnight. Sex crimes as we are told are more about power and control over the vulnerable and weak than sexual gratification. What a ‘rush’ then this bastard must have got when he pumped 7 bullets into an unarmed, vulnerable small, young man. The ultimate power trip for this animal.

    RIP AJ. Your killer is behind bars tonight. Maybe you didn’t die in vain after all.

    Heres a link to the news story.
    http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/07/cop_involved_in_silverton_shoo.html

  54.  

    The US police officer charged with shooting 20-year-old Andrew Hanlon from Dundrum in Dublin has been arrested in Oregon on child sex abuse charges. Tony Gonzalez is being held without bail on multiple counts relating to the sexual abuse of a minor. The girl and her mother reported the abuse on Saturday, and Mr Gonzalez was subsequently arrested. The 35-year-old police officer was already on administrative leave pending the investigation into the fatal shooting of Andrew Hanlon in Silverton, Oregon, on 30 June.

    http://tinyurl.com/5c9ogg

  55.  

    It seems the Police Chief has an online message facility where he can be contacted:

    http://tinyurl.com/62aevj

    The link is in the left-hand column entitled:

    Tell It To The Chief.

  56.  

    dear egan family~ your post of brief bio on officer gonzales was tiny glimpse of his “outerwear…” i appreciated reading it!
    i feel bad for my hispanic friends who already have it rough acclimating to this area, that they now have to absorb this news of an hispanic police officer,
    though it would not have mattered if this type of individual would have shown up as a european american, tongan, african american,
    chinese…… the nationality of this “person” isn’t even relavant, nor is his bio, because he is nothing, if not a sewer rat “disguised” as a human being… with love, jstone

  57.  

    One thing that’s relevant is his expertise in unarmed combat.

    This man is a cage fighter and martial arts instructor who could take on any ten of us and win easily.

    I’d like to know how this 230-pound ex-Marine could feel threatened by an unarmed 120-pound youth in bare feet.

    I’d like to know how a formidable fighting man like this could be so scared of a frail kid that he felt the need to shoot the boy seven times.

    What do you think? Are these unreasonable concerns?

  58.  

    My thoughts exactly Bock. One punch/lunge on a slight, unarmed man by a cage-fighting, powerfully built, ex-marine would have been enough.

    Regarding his bio, Jane. It was just background info. Lots of contributors here and elsewhere were curious as to who he was. Some made stupid racist comments about him possibly being an immigrant latino who might make a run for the border. He is of course a born and bred American citizen. However his mxed ethnicity could be important here as the article further stated that he was severely bullied and had a really hard time growing up as a kid/teen because of this.

    I grew up with a kid who was despised and shunned by all of us because he was, among other things, a nasty degenerate who slyly stole from other kids pockets in school etc., etc. He was evil and weak. We all said that one day he will do real harm in life. I met this guy 10 years after leaving school and he was now a Cop. And a nasty one at that too. He used his new found Power to its limit. If he had been given a gun……………
    In the last few years this guy was kicked off the force and jailed for a crime.

    Who knows what, where and when in Gonzalez’ own troubled, complicated background brought him to wanting so desperately to be a cop – The first time in his life he gets respect and probably more importantly for him, power.

    His background info merely confirmed to me what I believed from the outset: (as stated in my original posts) – A power-hungry, trigger-happy thug.

    Jane, one question: Have you made a statement to the Police/Investigators regarding your knowledge and insight into the crime?
    rgds. gegan

  59.  

    Hi All,

    I would like to say that i have been reading through your posts with interest and I would like to let you know that AJ’s family have been reading your posts too.

    I would like to thank many of you who have openly expressed support and condolences to the family during this extremely difficult and painful time.

    There has been alot of press coverage both here in Ireland and the USA that has been full of speculation and unsubstanciated drivvle about family, AJ himself and private lives of the Hanlon/Carroll family. This is causing alot of pain and difficulty to the family and has no place or relevance in this case. This is something that is being used to sensationalise the story and sell news papers.

    I know this family, I know Dorothea & Justin, I know Melanie, Eamonn Thomas, Andrew James, Mary Kate and Danielle, I also know Andrew Biological Father Eamonn Hanlon and the extended families on all sides. I know that truth and the background. These kids, most young adults now, are loved and cherished by their family and never would you say that this was a neglected home nor was anyone of the kids abandoned as reported by the gutter press in both countries. I know that anyone that knows this family or has had the opportunity to spend time with this family will know this to be true.

    Also I would like to inform all of you of the arrangements for AJ’s funeral
    The Funeral will be held on Monday the 21st of July at 10am in Saggart church, Co Dublin.

    Also as per the wishes of the family I would ask that those wishing to attend Not bring Floral tributes as there will be a facility for contributions towards AJ’s repatriation fund.

    This tragic event has put the entire family both immediate and extended at large financial strain as no one expects to lose a son, a brother, a nephew or a friend like this.

    Again thank you for your support and a special thank you to Bock for making it possible for comments and views to be airred openly on the unnecessary slaying of this young bright Irish Son.

  60.  

    And so say we all.

    Will see you at Saggart Church, 21st, 10am.

    x gegan

  61.  

    DO YOU know of any burglar who knocks on the door first!!!

    No burglary took place, Andrew was unarmed.

    But Andrew was slaughtered on the streets of Silverton. He was riddled with 7 bullets but there were NOT only seven fired.

    These are the FACTS.

    Sooner or later the truth will come out, but this will not bring Andrew back to his family and friends.

    The killer must be held accountable, justice must be done. Voices of outrage must be heard.

    If you feel as I do make your opinions known let your voice be heard, tell whoever you think may make a difference in having justice done. You the people can make a difference.

    We must never forget Andrew ( AJ ) Hanlon.

    Remember……the next person to be gunned down could be your son, your brother or sister, your friend.

    Thank you Bock.

  62.  

    ITS OFFICIAL………

    In a certain Sunday newspaper it has been officially announced by the Hanlon/Carroll Family Lawyers that Andrew ‘AJ’ Hanlon was ‘UNARMED’ when he was shot dead on the sreets of Silverton, Oregon.

    Of course we all knew and believed this before the announcement, but can you imagine the relief the family must now be feeling, to at last have their lads name cleared of that.

    My thoughts and prayers are with Andrew and his family today as he is laid to rest.

    Sleep softly AJ your at peace now.

  63.  

    with 2nd autopsy they had no choice~ independant pathology report, from ireland will be hard to refute.

    a.j.~ today we are “imagining” the one thousand doves we are sending to “saggart”
    church, at 10:00a.m., and that each dove will be carrying your spirit higher and higher, until all there is left, is love…

  64.  

    A lot of people got a chance to say a final goodbye to Andrew (AJ) today. All his immediate and extended family were there along with friends and the many people he met over the years. I’m so glad we got the opportunity to be there even though to our hearts were breaking – his family’s hearts were shattered.

    To lose your child must be simply the worst experience a mom and dad can experience, to lose AJ in this way is absolutely unbearable for Dorothea and Justin.

    AJ’s little sister Danielle sung a stunning tribute to her big brother along with heart-breaking words spoken by his sister Mary Kate. His step-dad Justin and some family friends also spoke movingly of AJ. The final words of goodbye were left to a family friend singing Eric Clapton’s ‘Tears in Heaven’ as AJ made his final journey from this earth.

    AJ was lucky though.. lucky to have had such loving parents in Dorothea and Justin and lucky to have had the friendship and love of his big brother Eamon and sisters Melanie, Mary-Kate and Danielle. That cant be taken from him. We wish we had known him more.

    It was said today that AJ had touched the lives of many, that he left good feelings everywhere he went, well AJ you have touched the lives of thousands more all over the world now. I bet they wished they had known you too.
    x from Ger, Gina, Jamie, Titch, Keith, Kieran, Mark and Justin, my mom Marie and sisters Carole and Janet

  65.  

    Now that AJ has been laid to rest, the battle for justice begins now. Dorothea needs to get back out to Silverton to fight the machine. There are thousands of people out there who are incensed over this brutal murder. Many access this blog. Please help if you can.

    Raise a few bob and transfer into bank account that has been set up. The family do not have the means to do this alone. The costs of AJ’s death to the family are astronomical and are crippling but they cant let it rest here, they must fight for justice. AJ was a young Irish boy, one of us – he could have been one of our own sons, brothers, nephews experiencing life in the USA. Any one of us could be going through what the Hanlon Carroll family are experiencing right now. It must be overpowering for them.

    The Silverton/Oregon state authorities will find it very hard to brush this under the carpet if AJ’s mother is in their face every day. Our mothers are the ones who fight for us every day from the cradle to the grave – We would all want the same for our own. Lets play a part even if its only a small one by helping Dorothea to fight this last battle for AJ.

    Use the bank account details above, no matter how small the amount. Please don’t leave it to the other person reading this to do it. You do it too. Thanks for reading this rant and apologies if I’m pushing too hard.

  66.  

    The killer-cop Gonzalez was charged with two new counts of child sexual abuse as he faced the courts again yesterday. He was refused bail again.

    It was said in court that when the girl told her mother of the alleged abuse, Gonzalez “flew into such a rage” she told prosecutors. On the morning of July 12, the mother described Gonzalez as very quiet, browsing the Internet and mentioning that he needed to buy a new gun. Gonzalez had “a look she hadn’t seen before,”

    When Gonzalez left to go to buy the Gun, the girl and her mother went to the Keizer Police to report the abuse.

    “They were terrified he was going to kill himself,” Kemmy said. –

    I’d say that it was more likely that he would kill them first. He had already tasted blood and if he was going to kill himself then he would have nothing to lose by exercising his power one last time.

    Following is a report on what the assistant DA Kemmy had to say: (some powerful comments)

    During Tuesday’s hearing, Kemmy said Gonzalez should not be allowed to post bail because he

    poses a danger to the girl and was considered untrustworthy because he violated his position in law enforcement

    “He is a danger to her,” Kemmy said. “Do not give him a chance to get out and reoffend.”

    Kemmy said that in Gonzalez’ probable-cause statement, the girl estimated that she was abused 60 times. The abuse began about four years ago when the girl was about 12. Gonzalez knew the girl before the alleged abuse started.

    “We gave him a gun and badge and trusted him to enforce the laws and protect our citizens,” Kemmy said. “Instead, he repeatedly broke the law, acted as if he was above it, and instead of protecting citizens, he victimized the child.”

    Yes he did….and murdered an innocent young boy too.

  67.  

    we pray: one day kemmy WILL state “instead of protecting citizens, he victimized THEM.”
    (instead of “child” whom he references, now.)
    both gonzolas’ wife and child (and rest of their
    kids) are probably suffering less, since he got a new address.

  68.  

    Well guys the Hanlon-Carroll family got the justice they expected they were going to get….and that was none.
    There are a lot of things here that don’t add up and a lot of untruthes that will come out some time soon.
    We will keep fighting for justice AJ we promise that.

    May God have mercy on the souls involved in this whitewash.

  69.  

    This outrageous verdict, although expected, is nonetheless shocking

    One fact has not changed.

    GONZALEZ SHOT DEAD AN UNARMED BOY

    Gonzalez was a martial arts expert trained in unarmed combat, he taught unarmed combat, he was a ‘Cage fighter’, he is an ex marine, a trained police officer. If AJ was running at him, unarmed, then Gonzalez was perfectly positioned to tackle him.

    If we are to believe, and I dont accept the account of this one eyewitness that Andrew was running at Gonzalez…into bullets, then it shows Gonzalez had even more time to subdue/tackle AJ or drop him with a punch.

    AJ was half this thug’s weight, shorter and with NO WEAPONS. Gonzalez was fully loaded and could have used his tazer, baton or fists. He was trained to use all of them.

    But of course if he did that that then he wouldn’t have had the chance to use his ‘Power Tool’ which had been gathering dust in its holster ever since he became a cop.

    A power-hungry, trigger-happy coward

  70.  

    Well now, once again we see the wonderful American judicial system at work. Unlike others who have contributed to this site, I did expect a different result. How any fair minded decent honest citizen could agree with this verdict beggers belief. This is also the first time I heard that A.J was running at, or attacking, this lowdown scumbag of a police officer. I use this language to describe him now that we know so much more about his other activities. This man is a martial arts expert and a cage boxer. Cage boxing is one of the most awful forms of human behaviour. And this guy had to shoot a skinny twenty year old kid to defend himself ?. I do’nt think so. I think this animal was either having a bad day or was a totally out of control thug. I would also like to address a comment to the Silverton Chief of Police while I am at it. You Sir have a case to answear to as far as I am concerned. You were this animals boss. You must have seen something in his behaviour to cause concern during his time in your precinct. I also suspect that some or all of your other fifteen police officers knew this guy was a “Loose Cannon”. to do what he did on the night of June 30th. he must have been involved in other dodgey situations which showed cause for alarm. Shame on you the jury for this monumental cover up. It is no wonder that Americas credibility is in “Tatters” worldwide. You are a disgrace. Hopefully The Animal will get his just deserts on the sex charges.

  71.  

    I hear that the Hanlon family are holding a press conference in the beautiful city of Portland which I had the pleasure to visit a few years ago. I would ask them to seek out a good lawyer with a view to taking this case further. This jury decision should not be an end to the matter. I am sure that there are many people here in Ireland, and possibly in Silverton, who would contribute towards a legal challenge to this travesty of justice which occured yesterday.

  72.  

    Do you really see this as a cover-up? Did you all read the press release from the Marion County DA?
    What say you about the mother and 2 kids who had to barricade their front door to keep AJ from coming in the house, uninvited? He referred to himself as the angel of death and left blood and skin fragments on the door he was pounding it so hard.
    Certainly, there are miscarriages of justice in America – as there are all over the world. This case is not unique to Oregon or the U.S. It is tragic for ALL involved. Silverton as a community has been lambasted. The police force has been dragged through the mud. A seemingly good, but troubled, young man lost his life. A family lost a son. What’s the point of all the anti-American sentiment? Does anyone on this blog truly think that the authorities and people of Oregon and the U.S. just don’t care?

  73.  

    Isn’t it strange? Whenever anybody criticises something that happens in America, they’re labelled anti-American.

    Why is this?

    Regarding the statement from the DA, we have no proof that these things happened apart from a statement by people intimately involved in the events that led to Andrew’s death.

    It appears to be an attempt at blackening Andrew’s name ito deflect attention from the fact that he was summarily executed.

    This is the same DA who decided not to bring before the grand jury any of the people directly involved in Andrew’s pursuit.

    His integrity is now in serious doubt.

  74.  

    Bock, come on.
    I am simply addressing posts in this blog. I am an American citizen and have at least serviceable sensibility about where my country stands in the world. I would not begin to think that any criticism of how this case was handled makes people anti-american. I was referring to this quote from Brian:
    “It is no wonder that Americas credibility is in “Tatters” worldwide. You are a disgrace.”

    That’s productive, huh?

    Anyway, you mention that the statement from the DA “appears to be an attempt at blackening Andrew’s name ito deflect attention from the fact that he was summarily executed.”

    I think we could go back and forth on this topic until the end of time. The operative word in your comment is “appears”. Interpretation of this so subjective and laden with emotion that is seems impossible for anyone to be objective. Also, I think anyone who is ever involved in an incident like this, whether it be some who is directly involved, or someone who is witnessing it, is going to be “intimately” involved. What difference does that truly make?

    Who can the DA and investigating officers and grand jury base their decision on other than those who were directly involved? It’s worthy of noting that none of the witnesses who gave statements knew of or had relationships with either the police officer or the shooting victim. What did these intimately involved people have to gain or lose by not telling the truth?

  75.  

    Gary —

    The grand jury did not get to interview either the policeman or the other people who chased Andrew the night he was killed.

    On your other point, you’ll often see criticism of American policy on this site, but I’m far from anti-American. I criticise the Irish government as well, but that doesn’t make me anti-Irish.

    I think the commenter is trying to highlight the hypocrisy of your government lecturing the rest of the world about freedom while at the same time allowing this sort of thing to happen at home.

  76.  

    But see, that’s just my point. What was “allowed” to happen? I think you’ll find that many people feel the system worked well.

    Let me be clear. I don’t mean that shooting AJ was a good thing. On the contrary, it is horrible. By all accounts, he was a good kid who DID NOT deserve to die.

    The part that worked well was the investigation. It was a long and painful process for the family of AJ, but it had to be that way. Under the letter of the law, here in the U.S., the officer involved did nothing wrong. Now, certainly, just because the law says that an officer is justified in shooting a suspect, this doesn’t mean it should happen. The policeman could have done a thousand things differently. Is it just impossible to fathom that any accountability rests with anyone other than the officer involved?

    I did not know that the officer and others involved were not interviewed by the grand jury.
    As a citizen of Oregon, it would definitely interest me if they were not allowed to, as you suggest. Legally, a grand jury cannot be barred from interviewing witnesses. So, perhaps the idea that the grand jury was blocked in some way needs to be looked into further. I’m curious as to how you know they were not allowed to or did not get to?

  77.  

    Gary —

    I’m no expert on your system, but as I understand it, the DA decides what witnesses are to be brought before the grand jury. Normally, he’d try to bring the strongest possible case to persuade the jury that a trial was warranted.

    In this case, for reasons best known to himself, he chose not to call the policeman or the two men who chased Andrew. I’ll find some references to that in a while if you wish.

    Gonzalez is a 230-pound cage fighter, a martial arts expert and a former Marine. In addition to his firearm, he had a nightstick and possibly a taser.

    Andrew was a 130-pound, barefoot, unarmed youth.

    Gonzalez claims that he shot AJ as he was retreating from him. The cage fighter was so scared of this frail kid that he put five bullets in him, including one between the shoulder blades.

    While he was retreating in fear from Andrew, he managed to shoot him in the back. That was some achievement, wouldn’t you say?

  78.  

    True, the DA decides which witnesses to call. But, the Grand Jury can request any more info they feel they want/need.

    I didn’t see in the press release that AJ was shot in the back – or according to the coroner.

    Once the officer pulled his service weapon (before AJ started running after him), engaging in hand to hand combat was not an option for the policeman. He is trained not put himself in a position to compromise his weapon.

    I see your points and respect your position. In discussing this with my wife earlier, I expressed the same concern that the officer could have used his billy club to subdue AJ.

    One nice thing about the American justice system is that, even if Gonzales is not prosecuted, he can still be named in a civil suit (as can the Silverton Police Dept).

    Anyway – I enjoy the discourse. Thanks for taking the time to share your opinions.

  79.  

    to brian keenan-hall~ your comments were (and still are) so concise and helpful to us all!
    thank you!
    brian, keep in mind now too, in usa, grand jury is closed, and only hears, only sees only reads the “evidence” from the state:ie: investigation reports, state witnesses, etc. if grand jury is FED 100% FABRICATION (except for “fact” a death occured) how ARE they to sit proper judgement? they only go by what they are presented with, nothing more. they are not the true purpatrators of the unjust verdict here, mearly the messengers…
    please may i ask you to address your comments to silverton police officer rick lewis direct to him, as i would strongly doubt he would take time to read your words here~ this is so IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW! go to http://www.cityofsilverton.com and find where to leave a post for him. he NEEDS to read what you have to say to him, powerful stuff, my friend~ andrew has to be smiling into your irish eyes, keep it up, keep it up! we are only
    getting stronger, when we unite with andrew’s
    soul in mind, and his family~who are awesome!
    blessinbgs, jstone

  80.  

    gary~ PLEASE~ “grand jury can request any more…etc.” YES THEY CAN and TRUE, D.A. can and will honor this request~HOWEVER:”WITNESS” OR “MATERIAL” OR WHATEVER REQUEST IS MADE~ is “state’s evidence” AND THIS IS THE CORE OF IT: D.A.
    PRESENTS WHATEVER STATE HAS COLLECTED, THAT THE STATE DEEMS AS “EVIDENCE.” and THIS IS WHAT grand jury uses, for their determination…
    ***** have YOU read coroner’s report?
    ***** have you spoken w/witnesses to “the chase?” best do this, before commenting here.

    ++++++ you “ENJOY this discourse ?”
    this isn’t a “discourse” this is a travisty of justice, and a beautiful young artist has been murdered… get real with your “discourse”
    this could have been YOUR CHILD who was murdered here….. jstone

  81.  

    gary i am responding to your comment: “do you really see this as a COVER-UP? did you read the investigative report which says… etc.”
    let me say just this: i read that report, and i have NEVER seen a stronger more evil set of
    LIES and FABRICATIONS than i have since i worked w/dr. king’s group (s.c.l.c.) in peach county georgia (1960, 1961) when i was privy to INVESTIGATIVE REPORTS of lynchings in that county, WHEN THE AUTHORITIES JUSTIFIED THESE LYNCHINGS, AND THEY NEVER WENT TO COURT, because the african american families of the deceased were too poor… you had best pull this wool from your eyes…jstone

  82.  

    The post above at #82 for Silverton is to the Silverton in Ohio, I’m pretty sure.

  83.  

    BOCK~ the reason the grand jury never got to interview “the rest of the people involved” is twofold~#1: some of the “rest of the people”
    were written out of the “script” because to
    include them, would mean they were ALSO involved~ one of the eye witnesses (who happened to be in the neighborhood,) was two places at once~ tricky shape shifting???
    thank god for yet another eye witness~ANOTHER ONE WHO HAS NO AGENDA~ and as for all of these
    punches and karate chopping moves~ what! we are all deaf in this neighborhood too??? AND WHEN DID ANDREW HAVE TIME FOR ALL OF THESE PUNCHES AND CHOPS, WHEN THE GUNFIRE NEVER STOPPED LONG ENOUGH FOR HIM TO GO TO THE DOOR, LET ALONE CHOP IT? A.J. NEVER GOT FURTHER THAN THE STREET HE WAS BEING CHASED DOWN, HE DIED IN THE STREET AT THE BOTTOM OF THE OAK STREET HILL, AFTER BEING CHASED DOWN THE HILL, GUNFIRE NEVER CEASED ALL THE WAY DOWN THE HILL~ ANDREW DIED FROM THE ABDOMINAL SHOTS~ DID ONE OR TWO COME FROM GONZOLAS, OR WAS IT NONE FROM GONZOLES EXCEPT AT THE VERY END? HIS INSURANCE SHOTS TO A.J.’S LIMBS? why did SO MANY HEAR GONZOLAS tell andrew at the VERY END AFTER he was mortally wounded, not to get up or he would shoot~AS ANDREW’S BODY MUSCLES CONTRACTED AT HIS DEATH~
    then firing the “LIMB” shots, and also how did so many clearly hear andrew’s anguished screAms, but NONE of this other (pre-death) activity??? the glass breaking? the recycle bin??? what about the rear car windshield~ the white car windshield where one of the big bullets went through andrew and dented the door and deflected to the rear car windshield, this must have been written out too, oh my god~ and the other thing keeps
    puzzling me: how did andrew get all this blood and skin on A HOUSE DOOR AT THE BOTTOM OF THE OAK STREET HILL WHICH HE NEVER EVEN GOT CLOSE TO~ you see, andrew DIED IN THE STREET AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL, HE WAS DEAD BEFORE HE WAS EVEN CLOSE TO A HOUSE, AFTER HE WAS CHASED DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE OAK STREET HILL BY 2 MEN WITH GUNS~ HE WAS NEVER IN ANY BUSHES AT THE BACK OF A HOUSE, HE GOT DOWN THE HILL VIA THE ROAD, NOT THE BUSH ROUTE…SHOOTING ROUNDS AND ROUNDS AND ROUNDS OF BULLETS AT HIS BACK ALL THE WAY DOWN OAK STREET HILL AND ANOTHER GUN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE HILL WAITING TO INTERCEPT A.J.,
    WITH YET MORE SHOTS~ 7 BULLETS FIRED???? LET US SEE HOW MANY NEIGHBORS GO WITH THAT ONE~ROUND AFTER ROUND AFTER ROUND OF SOLID GUNFIRE OVER AND OVER GUNFIRE WHY DOES A.J. STUMBLE AND FALL? HE “TRIPPED” OR WAS HE ALREADY MORTALLY WOUNDED? AND JUST HOW DOES ONE FIND OUT A PERSON’S
    MENTAL STATE, AS THEY ARE CHASING HIM??? SHOOTING AND CHASING~ AND WHAT ABOUT THE HANLON/CARROLL LAWYER BEING GIVEN ALOT OF PAPERWORK, BUT STILL NOT THE 911 CALL AND STILL NOT A RECORD OF POLICE DISPATCH TIME SLOTS? COULD IT BE, COULD IT POSSIBLY BE~ THAT THESE 2 ITEMS ARE NOT YET READY FOR THE LIGHT OF DAY? AS BOCK STATED EARLIER IN THESE SAME POSTS- how dumb do you think we ALL are,
    DUMB ENOUGH TO LISTEN TO LIES AND LIES AND MORE LIES ? NO, I AM GOING TO SAY THIS~ NO MORE LIES FOR A.J., NO MORE LIES FOR THOSE WHO PROTECT HIS SPIRIT,
    NO MORE LIES FOR A.J.’S MUM OR HIS SISTERS OR HIS BROTHERS (NATHAN TOO)OR HIS FRIENDS…………
    NO MORE LIES MEANS WAY MORE LIGHT AND
    A.J. HAS AN IMMENSE AMOUNT OF LIGHT COMING~ the truth has already started unraveling itself
    please pray for each and every one of us who won’t let this go until it’s time to let it go and that time will be when a.j.’s justice lives…

  84.  

    Bock Ithought a contrast setween the Irish Police response and the Silverton police responce might be of intrest. Please Google Abbeylara the truth.

  85.  

    Gary —

    I’ve written about that elsewhere on this site.

    However, it isn’t relevant to AJ’s killing.

  86.  

    Bock my apoligies I did not mean to offen. However the diffrence betwen shooting a young man to death and defend comrades struct me as as a tad strange? My apologies again. I am new to this site.

  87.  

    No offence taken Gary. I just want to keep the focus on AJ’s killing.

  88.  

    Jane,
    All due respect to you – you’re posts are a bit hard to follow. The use of all CAPS and no punctuation smack of a mad blogger. Anyway…

    I know this could have happened to my child – or me, or you…etc etc. You don’t have to yell at me in your posts. I live in Silverton, too. I know exactly where AJ was killed. I drive by his memorial on Oak St every day in my family car with my wife and kids. I drive down Water St, by the coffee shop he frequented (usually with Stu sitting out front). Pls don’t think you have cornered the market on righteousness. I take issue with the comment you made. Nowhere in my comments did I belittle anyone, AJ, Silverton, etc. This is a BLOG. I DO enjoy the discourse. That is what this is to me. I make no pretense about my relationship to the deceased. I DO, however, feel strongly about my town and I DO wish to read all points of view. I am entitled to mine. Pls do not try to chase people away because they do not share your heightened ability to root out evil and conspiracy.

    DId it ever occur to you that people join blogs not just to rant, but to get all points of view? This was a huge event in our town. It has forced me to learn a lot about our justice system and the way that it works. Furthermore, my opinion and judgment change and grow the more I learn. Let me have my say.

    Your indignation is warranted. I UNDERSTAND that someone lost his life. If you read my previous posts, you’ll see that I wrote there are no winners. Not AJ, not the crooked child molesting cop (although, if he gets convicted, he will get what’s coming to him in prison), not Silverton — NOT anyone.

    Another note, I do not have access to the coroner’s report or the details as to what REALLY happened. I have not interviewed witnesses as you evidently have. I would not even know how to go about that. Where do I get my copy of the coroners report? How can I get in line to interview the witnesses? Pls, Jane, enlighten me further.

  89.  

    Gary —

    Thank you for a balanced contribution. It makes a welcome change from the tone of comments we’ve been receiving from the US.

    I’m not sure whether the whole comment is directed to Jane whether some of it is meant for me. The bullet hole between the shoulder blades was reported by AJ’s sister Melanie after she examined the body.

    Regarding the coroner’s report, you’ll have to wait in line like the rest of us. Not even Andrew’s family has been given an opportunity to view it yet.

    However, the more I read about the evidence selected by the DA for the grand jury hearing, the more disturbed I become.

  90.  

    Andrew —

    Comment deleted. We won’t lower ourselves to the level of using personal abuse, if you don’t mind.

  91.  

    Bock,
    I, too, become more and more skeptical. Since I do not have access to the facts, and since I acknowledge we may never know the whole truth, here is where I stand today, based on my gut and intuition:

    I think AJ died at the hands of someone who did not have to kill him. I find hard to believe that the officer truly felt threatened. He could have kept back-pedaling, holstered his gun, and pulled his baton and used that instead (you’ll see that my view has changed a bit from my earlier posts). I worry that there is a growing level of injustice in this case. As a person who lives and works in Silverton, I am worried about the integrity of our police force. I am bothered that our mayor seemingly has nothing to say about this tragic event.

  92.  

    Well Gary, that’s interesting to hear.

    Now, maybe other decent people in Silverton will start to ask questions about the incident and how it was handled by the authorities.

    You’re not stupid. I can figure out a lot more than I’m saying on this site, and I’m thousands of miles away. Surely with local knowledge, you can work out exactly how Andrew died, and why.

    A blind man could see what really went on in Silverton that night and why the authorities are so anxious to prevent the case going to trial.

    This incident is showing your town in a very poor light right across the world, and perhaps if some local citizens stood up and asked hard questions, it would help to dispel the bad impression.

  93.  

    Maybe this is that one moment in time for Silverton — to see the state of it’s soul. I will think long and hard about this. It takes a certain amount of courage to take a stand in a town this size. But…Silverton is more progressive than the average small town, too. I think the city council and mayor meet during the 1st week of each month. Maybe I will go and see what they have to say. Certainly, it should be on top of everyone’s mind.

    Good day….

  94.  

    Gary –

    That seems fair enough to me. All we can expect of people is to reflect honestly on it.

  95.  

    i have know this family for years and it deeply saddens me that this happend to AJ, what ever the details are as to EXACTLY what happend know one knows and i dont think anyone will find out the truth…..but no amount of details or investigation will bring him back to his family……it is heart breaking that this had to happen to have a life taken this way…….but it pisses me off that this trigger happy ape got away with it…..if he is as highly trained in hand to hand combat as people are being lead to beleave why was this not taken in to account……..that a man twice the size of this AJ had to use a gun to take him down…….and i ask you IS THIS JUSTICE,,,,IS THIS THE AMERICAN WAY…it seems the only justice that will be done is he is a cop going to prison on se abuse charges and i hope he get what he diserves……..i hope the other inmates do
    what the american justice system failed to do

  96.  

    We know the truth. It’s just a matter of exposing it.

    Watch this space.

  97.  

    gary~ 1st, i owe huge apology for the writing style i use. always (and with everything i’ve ever published)www.jstonecards.com i never use caps, believing as i do that nothing is more or less important than anything else. the caps were used because i can’t find the italic button on the computer i’ve been using for website of bock’s. i had no idea caps meant anything… what can i say except i’ve had at least 15 computers go thru here that i’ve never turned on, and i resist tech. knowledge like the plague.
    i took everything that you said very seriously~
    please hear me too, ok? gary, all of my life (for past 48 yrs.) i’ve earned my living as artist/writer. this is who i am. i’ve “lived in silverton” since 1984. reason i choose small towns is i can do my work w/o stress of living in large urban reas. my other home in nw wi. is very isolated too. when i am in silvertoon i am anonymous, and that’s how i like it. i tour the work very seldom anymore. long ago i had this dream of being able to give yound artists jobs, and i’ve done that. to be working in my studio when a young artist was killed right outside,devistated me. and what i heard never gets acknowledged by police has been
    leading me more & more to believe something very evil is at work here. how do i “know” this: i live in the neighborhood, and neighbors i talk with have same recollection, but are reluctant to come forth. this is how i got to “interview witnesses” and rest is from artists who have worked w/me over the years who knew andrew,plus sources who have come to share their info. w/me. coroner’s report not yet available. very sad to hear i haven’t cornered market on rightousness~ have to work harder on that one i guess??? i believe, for instance that gonzoles shot andrew after he was already mortally wounded. why? because i heard the last 7 shots and know where they came from. there were many many more than 7 shots fired~ shots we all heard came all the way down oak st. hill. reason i know exact time? my finger jerked up on computer when one of the shots vibrated windows slightly on e.side of my bldg, and this logged into my computer, the exact second minute and date. maybe this is ok with silverton residents, but it isn’t ok with me. the more i see of the entire report (4-650
    pages long) the more fabrications i note, but what is clear is the 911 call, terrifying, even tho parts are “whited out.” indeed a.j. was having a real bad time that nite. my question as from the start is this: how was a.j. able to
    also bang on door of house across from my studio on oak when he was shot dead before he ever got to that house? it’s what i’ve said all along…no, gary~no winners here. the only thing left is to tell it like it happened, and not make it full of lies, that’s all i am praying for here, all i ever have…just a kid, you know~
    just a young artist whose work i will never get to see and i am heartbroken… i am very sincere to you, when i say i am so sorry i offended you~give me a bit of slack on very bad manners here, ok? it’s been a hard month in the village… with blessings and love, jstone

  98.  

    dear egan family of ireland~
    on the one month anniversary of andrew’s soul
    leaving earth, we are planning a special vigil all the way up oak street hill, to digerness road, and i am making very special placards for the kids.
    i wanted to ask your permission to use your following quote on some of the posters:

    A.J. was not afforded that constitutional right~
    “innocent until proven guilty”
    words by the Egan Family of Ireland

    would this be ok? blessings and love, jstone

  99.  

    By all means Jane. We would be happy for you to do that.

    Kind regards

    Egan family.

  100.  

    Bock
    In response to a posting to the “Oregobian” I questioned why the officer had not used Mace or a baton. “retcop” replied (prusumably a retired officer), That “mace” is no good because it gets in the users eyes. Batons are only good for “whipping” people and inflicting pain.It seems in the mind of “retcop” the only way of stopping someone is to kill them. It seem that “retcop” feels that this is a normal thing to do. My mind boggles!

  101.  

    Just their macho man crap. Their guns sit there burning holes in their holsters. They must be itching to use them. They have become the Hollywood version of themselves.

    Why should these cops be any different to the millions of cops in other countries who regularly subdue unarmed volatile teens and others?

    I truly believe that a certain breed of human is attracted to join the US police forces, so that they can get an opportunity act out their fantasies and then receive ‘Immunity from Prosecution’.

    I wonder how many of them would have bothered to become cops if they weren’t to be given a gun and a ‘licence to kill’?

  102.  

    Jane~
    I agree that it has been a hard month in the village.
    I see your perspective on this and can appreciate your passion. I did not know A.J. Certainly, by all accounts, he was a good young man and his death will be mourned by many. His dreams and aspirations, be they artistic or otherwise, have been summarily erased. That is a loss without description — one that I cannot imagine.

    I will continue to pay attention. My interest in this case grows with each passing day. My fear is that others’ interest has already begun to fade. A.J., his family and friends in Ireland and the U.S., and the Silverton community can ill afford to let this go.

    Gary

  103.  

    Jane, I had heard that you were a witness and have been curious to hear what you have to say. Thank you for sharing on this blog. However, could you please help to clarify something? You say that AJ supposedly pounded on the door across from your studio that they keep showing on tv. It is my understanding that he was pounding on a door at the top of the hill where the 911 call took place. Am I mistaken? It seems that the events described in the DA’s press release as far as locations, route and timing are plausible. You also say “some of the “rest of the people” were written out of the “script” because to include them, would mean they were ALSO involved~ one of the eye witnesses (who happened to be in the neighborhood,) was two places at once~ tricky shape shifting???” Could you please clarify this? I am most interested in the “shape-shifting” comment.

    I am just trying to get a better understanding of what happened before I draw any conclusions. I, too, am skeptical of the whole situation.

  104.  

    dear silvertonian~ thank you for asking these most important questions~ which i tried to answer in as concise a manner as i could. bock cannot release many of my comments, and this is very legitimate. the man has worked with us endlessly on this case, and his heart and brain are never to be doubted as brilliant. what he has given to this cannot even be imagined. i would like to suggest this:
    please, stop by my studio, my work hours are 3-4pm daily to 2-3am. we are holding vigil tomorrow at memorial site (it is to honor the time one month ago, that andrew died.)
    11:15-11:34pm, please join us, we need your voice and your questions. blessings jstone

  105.  

    dear silvertonian~ please contact me direct.
    your questions are very important and need to be answered. am no longer able to do this on bock’s site as there are issues bock cannot release and this is very valid. he has worked with us on this more than anyone can imagine, and cannot risk what i have to say at this point. please join us at vigil tomorrow evening on the anniversary of andrew’s death. it will be at the memorial site, 11:15-11:34pm. my work hours are 4pm to 2am daily stop by anytime. that goes for rest of people in silverton who have questions too~ we need to get this sorted out, with truth as our motive, blessings jstone

  106.  

    I don’t think Andrew knocked on a door at the bottom of the hill. That’s a misinterpretation of a comment made by one of the neighbours on a local newspaper report.

  107.  

    Jane,

    Thanks for your response. I will stop by sometime.

    Bock,

    Thanks also for the clarification.

    Many blessings to you all tonight.

  108.  

    It seems from the Silverton police site that some person or persons unknown have slashed the tyres of almost the entire fleet. Not that that one could condone such action one could ask why? Or perhaps not.

  109.  

    Who knows? Perhaps some criminal element is using the controversy as cover to settle a score.

  110.  

    Bock
    Agains such an exemplory and outstanding force? How could that be ? Silverton would appear to be the average American town not a hot bed of crime. What possoble score could the good people of Silverton have to settle? May it be that some of the good Silvertonians are a little unhappy with their Police? Alhough knowing nothing about Silverton pherps it is the center of all crime in the U.S.A. and needs to introuduce a law against thinking about crime punisible by death by “Judge Dread”

  111.  

    I don’t know anything about the other activities of the Silverton police, but if they’re always as heavy-handed as they were when they killed Andrew Hanlon, I imagine they’ve collected a few enemies along the way.

    One way or another, vandalising the cars was a stupid thing to do.

  112.  

    Bock
    Granted it was a stupid and sad act. However if the Police are going to come in “all guns blazing “to all events what can be expected?
    Sometimes the only option left to little people is the “sad and small act” As I understand it four officers witnessed the events of the night.What were they doing? The murder of AJ is and will always be an obomation. I do not understand how the Grand Jury works . It sounds like something better suited to the holy Inquisitioun.

  113.  

    The Grand Jury is supposed to determine if there’s a prima facie case. In other words, it determines if, on the face of it, there appears to be a case to answer.

    In reality, the DA always determines the outcome of a Grand Jury hearing, because the DA decides what evidence goes before them.

    In this case, he decided to present very little evidence and to omit several vital pieces of information.

  114.  

    Bock
    God bless America the home of the free and the land of the brave.

  115.  

    What a complete pantload! It’s very sad this had to happen because this illegal alien refused to get help for his condition. You didn’t mention his own family had to call the police on him in the past for his violent actions, nor that he threatened to kill the lady who’s door he was pounding on, identifying himself as “the angel of death”. Nor that he didn’t stop attacking the cop until after being shot seven times.
    There is no shame in mental illness, and this was not his fault. What is his fault is that despite his family’s pleadings to get help, he refused.
    If you don’t like my opinion, tough shit.

  116.  

    Amazed —

    Were you there?

  117.  

    Were you? Your opinions were represented as facts, although they couldn’t be farther from the truth. You can listen to the 911 dispatch calls if you care to, as well as the grand jury hearing report, and witness accounts.
    This is a truly sad situation, and I am disgusted at the way some turds are spinning this for thier own bullshit agenda’s. This man had mental problems, that left untreated cost him his life. There is no shame in mental conditions, it’s too bad that it’s world wide information now.
    The rest of the bullshit: “The cover-up”, “He’s a cage fighter”, It’s more of a fraternity than we realize”, is typical liberal rabble-rousing. The police did their job in this situtation- the protected the public from a dangerous threat to public safety, it took seven rounds to stop him, the body usually goes into shock after two hits, which is a good sign of either drugs or mental issues/nervous system dysfunction.
    And if ireland or the res of the world doesn’t like our justice system, then please DON’T COME HERE.
    Your entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, just please get your facts CORRECT, and identify your “theories” as just that, not something that more resembles WWII nazi propaganda.
    By the way, I live approx. 4 miles from Silverton.

  118.  

    Here’s a few links to follow-up on, please stop using this guy’s mental illness as a tool to bash police. And please, please, don’t say “that’s nothing more than big corporation media lies to cover it up”. Be honorable in your opinion. In America, a person’s medical information IS protected information, not public information.
    – – – – –
    http://www.independent.ie/topics/Andrew+Hanlon
    – – – – –
    http://blog.oregonlive.com/oregonianextra/2008/07/andrew_hanlon.html

  119.  

    My opinion doesn’t matter and neither does yours. Likewise, mental illness is not the issue.

    The only things that matter are the facts of the killing.

    You have stated certain things as fact, and I would like to know how you came by this information.

    I can only think of three possibilities:

    1. You believe AJ’s killer without question or

    2. You believe his pursuers without question, or

    3. You were there yourself.

    Which is it?

  120.  

    Amazed
    Here is one Alien that will not be visiting your part of Planet Earth for the forseeable future.
    Perhaps you should take off the “Stars and Stripes glasses” and have another look at your own links. A.J. may have had problems. Over here we do not shoot people with problems to death in the streets. The Silverton Police seem to have some magical guns capable of shooting a person in the back when fired from the front?
    The links strike me as being highly irresponsible giving names and homes.

  121.  

    I’m still hoping Amazed will come back and explain why he’s so certain of the facts in AJ’s killing.

    His references to mental health issues and AJ’s immigration status have no relevance, unless he considers it acceptable to shoot illegal immigrants or mentally unwell people on sight.

    Perhaps he does.

  122.  

    Bock
    Regretably the entity known as Amazed does seem to be to be of this opinion. Even more regretable is it does not seem to be alone.

  123.  

    i am a resident of the silverton, oregon area since 1974, and never, not ever since living in this area have i been aware that a mentally unstable person who bangs on a residential door or tries to force entry into a residence will be shot and possibly killed for this act of
    trespass. i have never seen this published as a warning to recent immigrants to the area, nor to any of its’ inhabitants. nor have i heard of this happening before june 30th 2008.
    we owe new residents as well as the young,
    and the tourists and the established residents
    a warning of this fact, and a forum on what could result if someone needs mental, physical or directional help. it is a dis service to community and visitors to area if they are not informed of the consequences here, regardless
    of what provoked this event. we do know this: an unarmed 20 yr. old visitor from ireland who was having a mental meltdown was killed for his behavior, and this needs to be acknowledged by the village government, so that the public knows “this is how it is…” this is the reality: like it or leave…..

  124.  

    Although ‘Amazed’ shouts from the roof tops about Bock and other postees ‘getting their facts straight’ he himself needs to step back and read what he has posted.

    After all that has been printed in the Papers and blogs, and viewed on the media over nearly five weeks now he still couldnt get his own facts straight.

    He accuses writers here on BTR of bias because of their opinion, however his post is biased, recist and innaccurate.

    Perhaps ‘Amazed’ is taking his time coming back because he realised he F***** up.

    Dear ‘Amazed when one is going to TRY to take the moral high ground one must have their facts straight, on this you have failed.

    My Grandmother had a very good old saying maybe you would like to hear and that is,
    ‘to be a good liar you have to have a very good memory’.

  125.  

    Amazed?

    Here’s another one of the tough-guy, beer swillin’ ‘kick-ass’, ‘blow them away’, ‘kill the motherfucker’ ‘we rule the world’, racist-brigade.

    Facts:
    Andrew was unwell not insane

    He did not threaten to kill the householder

    He did not physically harm anyone

    He was unarmed

    He entered the US LEGALLY and overstayed.

    HE WAS NOT SHOT TO DEATH BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS AT THE HOUSE

    HE WAS SHOT TO DEATH BY A COWARD WHO SHAT HIMSELF WHEN A SMALL, SLIGHT, UNARMED YOUNG MAN RAN AT HIM WAVING HIS ARMS
    (if we are fully accept those eye witnesses who were allowed to give evidence)

    The other tragedy here is that morons like you actually believe and accept that its ok for your your cops to execute citizens who have not been even charged with a crime. I wonder how you would have reacted if it had happened to your brother, son or daughter. Being of the mindset, as per your posts, I suspect you would go gunnin’ for the MF’r cop.

    Regarding your illegal alien comment; there are over 200,000 US ‘illegal aliens’ – uninvited and with no visa’s, all over the world in places like Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, many of whom are killing, raping and pillaging wherever they go. (some of your finest who will no doubt apply for jobs in the various police forces when discharged)

    Another old saying:

    ‘those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones’

    or this one:

    ‘get lost!’

  126.  

    I think “Amazed” is hinting at something else.

    “Amazed” might be suggesting that it’s also accceptable for private citizens to shoot you in the street.

    I could be wrong, but reading between the lines, that’s what comes across to me.

    I’d suspect there’s more to “Amazed” than meets the eye. These could well have been messages from somebody directly or indirectly involved in Andrew’s killing.

    Somebody very nervous.

  127.  

    Bock
    Again you have hit the nail on the head, in my opinion. From “Amazed” links the Officer involved in the 911 call asked the householder if she was armed. I wonder why? Perhaps he was going to suggest a line of action that might have saved the Police a call out?
    I still can not understand how five Officers could not have subdued AJ without the use of lethal force.

  128.  

    Bock,

    Have you had a chance to read the police reports? They are posted on the Statesman Journal’s website.

  129.  

    Bock
    The articles in the “statesman Journal” are of interest .They confirm my opinion that the killing of A.J. was totally unjustified .What sort of “burglar” knocks or even hammers on a front door? Gonzales was using his own side arm . From the Net this thing is capable of firing 10 to 17 rounds . It seems that he felt better equipped with this than whatever the Silverton Police issue.
    The Chief of Police is quoted as saying that his Officers are “highly trained”. What were the four Officers (who felt themselves capable of giving evidence to the Grand Jury) doing the night of the killing? Having Coffee and Doughnuts in the local Diner?
    The more I read of this case the worse it stinks.
    Perhaps the Silverton Chamber of Commerce should put a warning on their site. Persons not complying police “norms” shall be shot to death on sight.

  130.  

    It’s just as well nobody else shot Andrew with a Glock .22, isn’t it?

    That would cause terrible forensic confusion, trying to figure out which Glock .22 bullets were fired by the policeman and which were fired by someone else.

    But I suppose it would be even more confusing if there were two different kinds of weapon used.
    I wonder what calibre his police-issue weapon is?

  131.  

    Back to my question . . . have you read the police reports posted on the Statesman Journal website? I am not talking about the articles, I am talking about the actual police reports from all of the different agencies that responded to the scene.

  132.  

    Gary Ireland,

    Read the police reports. Not all of the officers that testified were at the scene when the incident happened. At least one was the lead investigator from the HART team. From what I have read, two officers responded to the burglary call and a third joined them (from the nearby town) after poor AJ was shot. Besides the lead investigator and Gonzalez, I am not sure which others testified. Maybe you can find that on the internet?

    Silverton is a small town. At night there are only two to three officers on duty with backup provided by the county and the nearby town. Again, read the police reports.

  133.  

    Bock . . . what are you trying to say?

  134.  

    As i’ve said in previous.. Gonzalez was itching to use his gun. He was presented with a perfect opportunity. I mean, what’s the point in acquiring guns, joining the police force unless you get to shoot someone – it must be the single biggest attraction to becoming an American cop. You get to shoot live targets with complete impunity.

    I have been speaking to many ordinary decent Americans over the past few weeks and yes, they are SCARED of their police forces. Is that not simply outrageous. To be scared of those who are meant to serve and protect. They all say the same thing – The forces are hiring poorly educated, ill-equipped morons and paying them peanuts.

    I understand that even though Gonzalez was a marine he never got to see ‘action’. So he didn’t get to shoot any ‘legitimate’ targets. An unfulfilled ambition until, after 10 years of rejection by many police forces, the astute, highly experienced Silverton Chief of Police deemed him suitable….. and with only a year of service under his belt… he takes his chance with gusto.

    But for the bravery of the young girl and her mum, this murderer would be back on the streets now. I just wish they had found the courage to walk into that police station before June 30th, 2008

  135.  

    Silvertonian: I didn’t realise you were asking me a question, but yes, I’m going through the police reports in the Statesman Journal. I haven’t formed a view of them yet, but I’ll probably post something new in the next day or two once the other breaking news comes out.

    As regards what i’m trying to say, well, I’m just remarking that it’s as well we’re assured Gonzales was the only shooter. As far as I’m aware, the Glock 22 is not police issue, but I could be wrong about that. If it happened that some civilian had also shot at AJ, there could be terrible confusion.

    Do you happen to know what the standard issue weapon is for police in Silverton?

  136.  

    other “breaking news’? eh?

  137.  

    Breaking news over there. We’ve been talking about it for weeks.

    The Oregon papers have now latched onto the fact that DeSantis was not just a random passer-by but a business associate of Kelley, and was also involved in looking for Andrew.

    Here’s what the Statesman journal says:

    A news release issued by the Marion County District Attorney’s office after the grand jury’s ruling portrayed DeSantis as a random passerby who stumbled across the shooting. It specifically noted that he did not know Gonzalez or the slain suspect, Andrew James Hanlon.

    The truth is starting to come out.

  138.  

    Here is the link to the Statesman Journal website:

    http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008808030326

    On the right is a list of files related to the shooting including the DA’s statement and the police reports.

  139.  

    Yeah, I know this blog has been talking about it for weeks. I’ve seen all the stuff on the SJ website. Just not sure how any of this will lead to breaking news here. Or…how it will change anything. I’m not saying I don’t hope for public revelation.

    Another Silvertonian: How do you feel about the fact that our town leaders have not said a word about this incident? Not Ken, not Stu, not any of them…..

  140.  

    It’s not breaking news in Silverton. We all know they are business associates and friends. I never thought it was random that Mr. DeSantis was present. As soon as I heard Mr. Kelley was at a friend’s house, I could guess where he was at. The DA might have neglected to mention the association, but neither Mr. DeSantis nor Mr. Kelley tried to hide that association as evidenced by the police reports. It was also poor reporting by the Statesman Journal for not figuring this out and reporting it sooner. One of your own citizens commented on the SJ blog about the association the day of the DA’s press release.

  141.  

    Gary —

    The SJ was saying nothing about business associations a week ago. Maybe now they realise Mr DeSantis can’t be treated as an impartial witness and should not have been presented to the Grand Jury as such. That in itself was an impropriety.

    Given that the entire decision hinges on his corroborative evidence, this is, in my view, grounds to reconvene the Grand Jury.

    Likewise, the jury were told of Andrew’s blood on the door, but no consideration was given to the other more plausible reasons it could have been there. The DA failed to advise the GJ about the other possibilities, causing them to form a false impression of Andrew’s behaviour on the night.

    Finally, I think the statement by Gonzalez that he was using a Glock.22 is highly significant. Follow this aspect of the case. It holds the key to the whole mystery.

    Silvertonian —

    yes, I know it isn’t breaking news in the community, but the SJ only seems to have noticed it now, along with the Woodburn police, who were supposed to be investigating this matter. How did it come as such a surprise to Detective Puente?

  142.  

    Gary,

    It troubles me that they have not said a word, especially Stu who tends to speak his mind even when we don’t want to hear it. However, I think they have to be mindful of what they say due to the very real prospect that there will be a civil suit. I am sure the city attorneys have told them not to comment, just as the family’s attorneys have stopped them from commenting to the press. Both sides are posturing and this will be a big case.

    Might even be an election topic . . .

  143.  

    Bock: I didn’t catch that it was a surprise to Puente. Alexander was the lead investigator and I don’t believe it was a surprise to him. In addition, the association is stated in Mr. DeSantis’ interview and his written statement, and both of those would have been presented to the Grand Jury. Therefore, we must conclude that the Grand Jury was aware of the association when they made their decision. Also, I guess that I am not sure that their association has any relevance to Mr. DeSantis’ testimony.

    You also mention the possiblity of another shooter. Where is the evidence for this theory? I have read many articles from several news agencies here and abroad. I have also watched several television reports and interviews. I have never heard mention of another shooter except for here. Why?

    As for the weapon used . . . I do not know what standard police issue is for the SPD or what their policy is on using your own firearm. I am sure it is something you can email the police chief and ask.

  144.  

    Bock:

    “Likewise, the jury were told of Andrew’s blood on the door, but no consideration was given to the other more plausible reasons it could have been there. The DA failed to advise the GJ about the other possibilities, causing them to form a false impression of Andrew’s behaviour on the night.”

    Surely, you have listened to the 911 call?

  145.  

    Another SIlvertonian-
    This is a good point. I noticed the “We love you A.J.” poster on the theater and Stu is always at the coffee shop AJ frequented. I guess we’ll wait and see what, if anything, he has to say.

    Bock,
    THe glock was TG’s personal weapon. It would be easy to determine with ballistic science if there was more than one shooter — even if they used the same make/model firearm. I am on board that something is rotten in the state of Denmark, but I would be very surprised to learn that DeSantis or Kelley shot A.J. and Silverton, Marion County, etc is covering it up.

  146.  

    I firmly believe that the Silverton Police would not cover up a shooting by a citizen of this town no matter who the citizen was. They would not sacrifice themselves in that way.

  147.  

    Silvertonian —

    By definition, if I have a business association or friendship with the complainant, I can’t be regarded as impartial. Likewise, if I take part in a search for a suspect, I can’t be presented as an independent, disinterested witness.

    Am I overlooking some vital point there?

    Here’s what the DA’s statement says:

    As this incident was occurring, Silverton resident, Jeff DeSantis, was driving along Oak Street. Mr. DeSantis did not know either Tony Gonzalez or Andrew Hanlon. Upon seeing Tony Gonzalez’s patrol car parked in the street, Mr. DeSantis
    stopped his vehicle. Mr. DeSantis then looked to his left and saw the beginning of the confrontation between Tony
    Gonzalez and Andrew Hanlon.

    Now, in my view, that’s nicely nuanced, and gives no indication that Mr DeSantis was anything but a random passer-by.

    Maybe there’s a gap in my knowledge here, that you could help with. Perhaps you’d post the links to Mr Desantis’s interview and statement to the Grand Jury. I thought the Grand jury hearings were held in camera.

    Regarding other shooters, I have no idea who they are. However, Gonzales reports firing at Andrew while retreating from him. Subsequently, Andrew’s family noted a bullet wound between his shoulder blades. This must have been a remarkably lucky shot by Gonzales.

    I don’t understand your question about the 911 recording. Is it your point that it indicates Andrew’s state of mind? I’m not sure how it proves that he left blood on the door.

    Finally, I doubt if the police chief would have any interest in spending time advising a foreigner thousands of miles away, but maybe I will ask him.

  148.  

    I agree, the DA’s statement to the public is misleading. It is actions such as this that cause the public to become suspious of our leaders. I also agree with your statement that “By definition, if I have a business association or friendship with the complainant, I can’t be regarded as impartial.” However, Mr. DeSantis did not have a business association with the complainant as the compainant, as presented to the Grand Jury, was Officer Gonzalez, not Mr. Kelley. It was Officer Gonzalez they were looking to indict, and Mr. DeSantis stated that he did not know the officer. I also agree that he should not be presented as a disinterested witness. Again, it was wrong for the DA to make such a statement to the public. We do not know that he made this same statement to the Grand Jury.

    I have posted the link to Mr. DeSantis’ interview and to his written statement on the SJ website. It can be found under the Woodburn Police reports. In addition, I believe it was stated that these police reports were given to the GJ. Officer Alexandar was also interviewed by the GJ. I can only go by what the DA stated was presented, and I can understand why people would not trust his word. However, I doubt they would release all this information on the internet if it was not presented to the GJ.

    I have also read the report that there was a bullet wound between his shoulder blades. Could it possibly have been an exit wound? Has the ME in Ireland made any comment regarding this (I read they family had an independent autopsy)?

    I do think the 911 call does indicate Andrew’s state of mind. It sounded to me like a scary situation. He was barefoot, walking through gravel (I know the area) and blackberries, and he was pounding and kicking on the door. It is highly plausible that he could have cut himself and then transfered blood as he was kicking the door. Anyway, you didn’t answer my question.

    As for the chief, I encourage you to ask him. Maybe he will answer and maybe he won’t, but I certainly think you have a right to ask. It is a good question.

  149.  

    Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I had to attend to things in my real life. (My name isn’t “Hal”. I do actually exist outside this bubble).

    If your question is whether I’ve listened to the 911 recording, the answer is yes, I have, and I’m sorry to tell you I’m not persuaded. Though Shannon Kelley is undoubtedly frightened, I’m not convinced the recording hasn’t been modified.

    I’ve also made the point to you that the transfer of blood may have been caused by another plausible mechanism, and perhaps you’d address that possibility.

    I use the term “complainant” because that’s what the householder would be in this jurisdiction. He would be making a complaint of a burglary. However, there’s no need to split hairs. I think it’s clear what I meant: Mr DeSantis had a business association with the family who lived in the house where an attempted burglary was alleged to have taken place, and therefore should never have been presented as a dispassionate witness.

    You’ll note that I also said as follows: if I take part in a search for a suspect, I can’t be presented as an independent, disinterested witness.

    I don’t want to pretend I’m an expert on your Grand Jury system, but to the best of my knowledge, all hearings are held in private, and the information put before them is whatever the DA decides they should hear. Based on the DA’s evasions so far, I would be very doubtful about the quality of the material he presented to the GJ.

    There isn’t actually a statement from Mr DeSantis in the Woodburn report, but a paraphrasing of what he’s reported to have said. I see no sworn document, deposition or signature.

    I have no idea if this was given to the Grand Jury or in what form it might have been presented., Perhaps you could find this out, but I’m struck by one extraordinary comment Mr DeSantis is reported to have made.

    Mr DeSantis remarked that he felt he was more in control of the situation than the police were. It seems he was issuing orders to the police present, which on the face of it seems shocking. He was also the only one who checked Andrew’s pulse.

    I don’t know what the Irish post mortem revealed. That isn’t released, and as far as I know, the US report won’t even be given to the family for some time yet. The wound doesn’t apppear to correspond with an entry wound: the family identified two exit wounds from other bullets and as a result reduced the reported number of shots from seven to five.

    Nobody is doubting that the incident sounds very scary for Shannon Kelley, but let’s not be distracted. As I’ve said so often, the incident, whatever it was, had finished and Tony Gonzales was easily capable of fighting ten Andrew Hanlons. This was the basis of my first posts on the subject and I still remain utterly unconvinced by Gonzales’s story. Even Gonzales himself doesn’t believe it. He acknowledges that he could easily have taken Andrew down and “roughed him up”. He says he’s been wrestling since he was six and has no problem beating opponents.

    So why didn’t he take down a frail 120-pound kid? This man is a cage fighter, for God’s sake!

    Finally, don’t forget that the Grand Jury is not a court of law. Its role is to establish if there’s a prima facie case to answer. Probable cause.

    In my view, all the Grand Jury needed to do was see if the story added up, and to be perfectly plain about it, the whole thing stinks. That’s their job: if it doesn’t add up, send it to trial.

    Let’s knock one particular canard on the head: the Grand Jury didn’t clear anyone. They decided that there wasn’t probable cause. I’m not going to get into a long diatribe about this, but I understand that DAs in the States have been known to convene multiple Grand Juries until they got the right decision. An outstanding example of this was the eventual indictment of Tom Delay.

    If this case had gone to trial, the truth would have come out and there would be no talk of a cover-up.

    Look, I think it’s time to write a post consolidating all that’s been said here. I need to take material from the comments and give it a proper place. That includes your contributions, but not the baying savages who mobbed the comments earlier.

  150.  

    replying to “another silvertonian” bock, i didn’t catch…etc..
    i would like to address why you haven’t heard or read of any other witnesses coming forth with information…

    i went to 5 police officers 06/30/08, and another by phone, trying to help with what i saw and heard. not one wanted to hear from me, because it didn’t “fit with what happened.” or when i told them what the voices i heard were saying, all they wanted to know was did i know who was speaking? the d.a. who presented to grand jury said as much. he “had enough witnesses” already, and besides, what i heard didn’t “fit” with report. i am asking all silvertonians at this point, could our entire neighborhood at mill street and oak, have been hearing the same things, yet these rounds and rounds of two different sounds of gunshots didn’t happen? what of the “visual witness” who saw blazing guns chasing andrew down middle of oak st. hill? as i said to jeff de santis when he stopped by for a totally non threatening, and gracious talk with me, “jeff, these guns had to be attached to 2 bodies.” and what of the men on side of my building the night of 06.30.? plus the 2 shots fired from front/side of my building? and the very last of all shots: those fast popping sounds? couldn’t have happened? why did one very loud shot which caused my finger to jump from keyboard register as correction on the computer log? my imagination? this was 10 hours before i knew what had occured. perhaps silvertonians just need to follow the lead of the leaders of the hamlet, and either not comment, or go back to whatever it was they were all doing and drop it. as someone from silverton recently commented “he’s dead, get over it.” i won’t get over it, because it did happen, and i will not allow this to pass forth to another young adult in silverton. these are my kids too, and they do not deserve to be shot, because they may be having a severe mental meltdown. these kids deserve to be protected and cherished, not shot. i’m sorry, i cannot choose to “not have an opinion” here.
    “we must each be responsible for the consequences of our own choices” well
    we all sure learned that lesson, aye? it’s the old “like it or leave it” mentality??? works for most of us????? no, i can’t sit for that, i will stand for nothing short of protecting our kids in silverton, and honoring them, because they are an amazing bunch of “silvertonians” albiet without a voice for their own well being or their own safety.
    i feel that the very least we can do as a community, in all fairness to everyone who lives here, who comes here on holiday, who immigrates here from another country, young school children, and tourists passing through~
    we owe the public at large who might find themselves here, the
    knowledge that no one under any circumstance, must go to a residence without knowing who is living there before approach, whether they need mental, medical or directional help. we also owe it to each person who finds themselves here, a warning of the possible consequences of police intervention. jeff de santis asked me “what do we tell them to DO, then?” we have no “do” in place, but at least we can start with what not to do. psychosis visits young adults worldwide from ages 17-25, overnight. this is factual. the next time this happens to one of our kids, he or she will not be killed
    behind an illness. no options here, this must be addressed, or it will happen again. with just basic public understanding of the consequences of private trespass, this is a powerful start.
    our other choice (obviously) is denial. or there’s blame. or righteous justification, silence works too??? choice is ours, we can’t hire a committee to come in and fix this one. what will carry us through this “incident” that’s happened in silverton? will it be faith or fear?
    jstone
    and one more thing: andrew’s resident status in u.s., was visitor w/expired visa, not illegal immigrant- this is just one more “silverton label” we can tie on andrew, to justify how we treated him, as a community. they shoot artists in silverton, aye? and you all really can’t imagine it could happen to you? at the least you need to be aware that it might.

  151.  

    Well this resignation was to be expected – I mean he was no more than 5 feet from Andrew with his weapon drawn, he was (according to the ‘witness’) back-pedaling all the time – he managed to get SEVEN rounds off yet he missed Andrew (five feet away) TWICE !!!! That’s so obviously down to the ‘countless hours’ training that Silverton police officers undergo!

    I mean what’s a 240 pounds, former Marine,trained and practicing cage-fighter carrying a Taser and a nightstick and a loaded gun gonna do against a guy weighing 130-pounds, barefoot and unarmed ?

    In Silverton they’ll shoot you dead.

    It’s all very fishy and I just wonder what deals are, even now, being done behind the scenes for this (now) ex-police officer.

  152.  

    Silvertonian —

    Do you have any views on the reports that a car’s rear windshield was shattered by a bullet that night, or that another bullet struck the door of the house next to 606 Oak St ?

    Maybe you could also help by describing the terrain on the hill at the rear of the house. As I understand it, the bushes are so thick it would be very difficult to scramble through them without sustaining cuts and scratches.

  153.  

    Why do you think Jeff De Santis is now going to witnesses and family ??????

    He’s asking questions and trying to soften what he has already said and done.

    Is he now doing his own investigation on behalf of the Kelleys, the Silverton Police and the DA ???

    Perhaps trying to find out what information the family’s lawyer may dig up !!!!!

    OR is it just plain old ‘GUILT’…………..

    Is he guilty of omiting facts or contorting the truth to get Gonzalez a ‘Justafiable shooting’ verdict ????

    If so he has a lot to answer for and no amount of crying on people’s shoulders now is going to change the fact that Andrew Hanlon was murdered and he, Jeff De Santis knows it.

    In my opinion De Santis is now finding it hard to live his day to day life knowing the truth of the night of the 30th of June.

    He’s trying to ease his feelings of guilt by talking to everyone involved be they family or witnesses whom for whatever reason the DA chose NOT to call.
    What De Santis doesnt realise is that none of this is going to help him, he did what he did and now will have to live with it for the rest of his life.That terrible night when AJ Hanlon was slain on the streets of Silverton will haunt him forever…

    If this man has any honour at all, any compassion, or even if its just to help his feelings of guilt, he should step forward and tell the truth of what really happened that night, but will he !!!!!!

    Probably not..

    Why…

    Fear….

    He has to live in Silverton and run his business from Silverton and he is on the board of one of the towns committee’s…………….

    He is a friend and business partner of Kelleys and remember AJ was shot and killed outside the home of yet another Kelley.
    (Who incidentally wouldnt let the concerned citizens of Silverton place a memorial for AJ on the curb outside of her house where he died because she said she was ‘glad he was dead’)

    Are you getting the picture of the small town..

    De Santis says he didnt know AJ ,but AJ lived with his sister for nearly a year only 3 doors from where De Santis lives !!!!!!!!!

    With the help of De Santis they have blackened the name of a young dead boy.

    But one fact remains that even they couldnt change,

    AJ WAS UNARMED AND GONZALEZ KILLED HIM

  154.  

    The car whose windshield was shattered is at 11 seconds on this video :

    http://tinyurl.com/5aequ5

  155.  

    A. Silvertonian

    Thank you very much for some “lite” reading. In my humble opinion they simply confirm my opinion that on the night of the killing Gonzales “lost it”. In this jurisdiction Gonzales almost certainly would have been charged with manslaughter .
    From the SPD reports Mr. De Santis the “casual” and “independent” witness was self appointed to the posse that hunted AJ to his death.
    In a previous posting I said “God Bless America” I shall amend that to God HELP America.
    So long as entities such as “Amazed” exist apologist for the Police and system who feel it acceptable to kill all who do not comply with their version of “normal” there seems little hope.

  156.  

    Well Folks,
    I have not been able to keep up with all the correspondence people have been posting in relation to the slaying of our dear friend “Andrew”. I have been away and very busy over the past few weeks.However, I have been receiving many e.mails of which I have read only some.
    One thing that is beginning to emerge is, that all the point scoring is getting a little out of hand.
    we could talk for ever and not achieve anything. It is now time for Andrew’s family to consult with a really good lawyer to see where this case can go to next. Personally, I think Silverton has a case to answer as A “Big Brute” like Officer Tony Gonzales could have “Eaten Andrew for breakfast”. Nothing will convince me that his actions were justified. Never.Never. Never.
    I knew this boy Andrew. He lived in my home on and off for two years. He was a gentle mild mannered young man whose only vice as I knew it, was to take a few drinks which rendered him almost incapable of doing any harm to anyone.
    I also feel that there is a big worry in Silverton Council that the city of Silverton is going to be hit with a major lawsuit, and all the financial ramifications that will bring.

  157.  

    silvertonian~ i’m just guessing reason jeff de santis was visiting
    family and neighbors who witnessed anything on 06.30.08.~had nothing whatsoever to do with guilt. he’s taking the pulse, and finding out what who saw, then denying he lied on grand jury report, and (in my case) telling me what i saw wasn’t what actually happened. he’s playing same role he has from start: that of the “smoke and the mirrors.” jeff is very personable, and didn’t seem to be offended while offering his description of gonzoles fighting off andrew hanlon, when i laughed at his recall of this “event.” even though, minutes before in his conversation he’d described driving down hill, seeing andrew laying face down on oak street, parking his white truck and immediately running to give andrew medical aid, saying to a.j. “you’re going to make it.” i had him repeat this scenerio twice, before asking how he could have also seen andrew come thru backwoods, and be able to watch a.j. doing karate moves and aggresive jumps toward gonzoles. his reply “you just aren’t listening to what i’m telling you.” i told him “how can i listen, i heard gunfire coming down oak street hill, neighbor saw it, there had to be 2 bodies attached to those 2 guns, there was no TIME for andrew to also be running down back of hill, and jumping around at 606 oak street parking lot in back of house, when all of this (shown in grand jury report) happened start to finish within 3 minutes.” jeff, i think your p.r. job, visiting a.j.’s family and the oak street neighborhood witnesses was not a real good idea, you weren’t stopping by with any other motive than
    gathering information and trying to convince us in neighborhood we were all hearing what you heard~seeing what you saw, and to validate your story of the assistance you offered a.j., as he lay dead in the street~ wonder who came up w/this idea of the
    “visits by jeff” routine? you should have gone straight to press with it, saved us all some time. but i guess you all do that too, noting
    the comments and interviews, and most of us know the essence of your message: this was our right to have him killed for his actions and if someone doesn’t like it, leave. we don’t like it jeff, and we aren’t leaving. what happened 06.30.08.?
    11:18 til 11:34pm~ even the dispatchers time
    sequences are worth study: how does 1st shot log in (as code 0) at 3 seconds before gonzolas arrives at digerness? and here i thought same report said gongolas went to mill and oak street, first? and josh barnett went to digerness? but then the report shows gonzolas at digerness first…then totally omits the car windshield shattering, and dented door. those dispatch time sequences are going to be sticky oh what tangled webs???
    j.stone

  158.  

    Regarding 8/4/08 posting by “Close Family Friend”:
    First of all, can the teen dramatics- I don’t “shout from the roof tops” about anything, try sticking to the issues without making grandious exagerations and claims. I did indeed say “get your facts straight”, I stick by it and encourage you to do so, formulating your opinions based off the facts while keeping your personal agenda’s out of the process.
    Everybody has their own “opinions” of things, yours will be different than other’s, other’s will be different than you, deal with it.
    You claim my post was “biased, recist (I assume you meant racist), and innaccurate (again, assuming you meant inaccurate- invest in a dictionary, it will make a difference). That is the weenie and gutless response. Your response say’s all that needs to be said about your intelligence, agenda’s, and yes, your educational level.
    Your stupid statement of me taking “the moral highground” made me laugh. What was it I said that was “moral” (do you have a problem with them- are you some sort of deviant?), or that was on “high ground”? As I said, get your facts straight, don’t not make false statements that are influenced by your personal emmotional issues or any other agenda, and quit discussing Andrew Hanlon’s mental conditions- using them to justify your hate police.
    Your welcome to your opinion, I respect yours, I expect you to respect mine. We don’t have to agree, but don’t act like a child when we don’t.

  159.  

    holy buckets!!! “amazed” *i am assuming from the tone of your recent post, you must be a yank? and you must live in oregon?
    reason i say this ~ i have yet to read one comment on the murder of andrew j. hanlon from a brother or sister in ireland as rude, insensitive, judgemental and mean spirited as yours~
    please, this writer you chose to attack is a “close family friend” meaning this was written by someone who is representing andrew’s family, or is possibly a friend of andrews’ who is also grieving for this horrible senseless loss, trying to figure out why andrew was murdered, and why it seems no one is “responsible” for his death.
    so….. you are angry at pissing on your own electrical wire here are you? what, may i ask~ is your agenda, “amazed?”

  160.  

    “amazed” (four miles from silverton) i knew you had to be a yank… let me ask you, from your own personal knowledge, are these police documents, witness testimony &/or omitted segments of relevant information from seven agency reports to the case in question~ *also* “protected information* in america???
    or, is there perhaps another version of this investigation that is truthful, but we’re just not allowed to see it????? (be honorable in your opinion here…)

  161.  

    Amazed.
    You sound like a real bitch – male/female.

    Why don’t you just go away and have a beer and doughnut with your Police buddies and talk to them about what really interests you –

    Your arguments here are so catty and petty now that its time for you to give it up, let it go. Take out your frustration somewhere else…. become a terrorist, a serial killer maybe …or simply become a cop…. i believe they’ll take anyone in Silverton.

    Go away, grow up and get a life …..please

  162.  

    Amazed — I assume you meant “grandiose”.

    People — Let this creature talk. It tells us everything we needed to know about Silverton.

  163.  

    Amazed,

    Just what personal agenda are you refering to?

    I still say you need to get your own facts straight as much of what you said is incorrect.

    If making immature personal comments makes you feel better and more a man then be my guest, I have nothing to prove to people like you.
    Obviously I struck a nerve………..
    OOpppppsssss.

    Oh, yes and what emotional issues are you talking about?

    You seem to think you know me….but you dont of course, do not underestimate me.

    Yet again you are wrong about my hating Police , I have friends and family in the force and there are many good and decent men and women wearing a uniform, unfortunatly the few rotten eggs and the scumbags and people like Tony Gonzalez sully the name of the force and the good cops.

    How dare you use Andrew Hanlon’s name as a smoke screne to try to bully me, this dead boys name has been dragged through the mud by enough shit heads .

    Your last comment about respecting my opinion, why tell a lie like that, its obvious from your post you dont.

    Believe me I have absolutly no problem going toe to toe with you on this issue, in fact I will go one further and invite you to come to Ireland (at your own expense of course) and lets see just who has their facts correct, there are many people here who Im sure would like to enter healthy debate with you.

    We here are not afraid, we have nothing to hide, but it is clear you or your friends do.

    Even bloggers here on BTR who are serving Police officers have come out and stated that the whole issue surrounding AJ’s killing ‘stinks’.

    But then you wouldnt agree with that because I guess you dont think he knows what he’s talking about either!!!!!!!!!

    Bock…….LOL

  164.  

    Bock
    I find it of interest that that the entity calling itself “Amazed” should return to the site. Not of course to answer any logical questions. But rather to continue to act as an apologist for a self confessed child molester and ,in my opinion murderer, Perhaps it should check it’s own grammar.

    using them to justify your hate police.

    I may of be wrong but it may have meant “of Police”

  165.  

    Hey Garry,

    Couldn’t agree more with your opinions.

    But as I said in my last blog, I seemed to have hit a nerve and so ‘Amazed’ was pretty angry which spurred him on to send the new blog.

    It will be interesting to see the next blog from ‘Amazed’…………..should there be one.

    Hey Bock sorry to hear about you phone.

  166.  

    It was obviously involved in the killing in some way and it feels the need to justify its actions.

    Maybe it doesn’t sleep easy at night.

  167.  

    Also for ‘Amazed’.
    Where you say, ‘Your welcome to your opinion, I respect yours, I expect you to respect mine.’ It’s You’re, not Your.. i.e. you are.
    I wont assume your educational level though, I fear it’d be on the grandiose side if I did, because it’s a common mistake.
    I would assume you’re a moron though.
    Take care.

  168.  

    Audrey —

    I was going to go through Amazed’s shockingly low standard of literacy, especially as it presumed to correct a contributor’s spelling.

    But then I decided not to.

    I felt we should let it continue to show us what it’s made of.

    I would be surprised if Amazed reappeared in its current form. It’s more likely to comment under another name, or perhaps have another member of its family comment instead.

    One can only hope that the whole family isn’t semi-literate like “Amazed”.

  169.  

    Scary thing is ‘it’ (lol) probably has a degree from Harvard and Yale like it’s leader Dubyah has.

  170.  

    Bock
    I hope you dont mind but I have been sitting on this for a while but it has been suggested that after all the support that you and your bloggers have shown to the Hanlon-Carroll family they have a right to an insight on the family.

    Andrew-James Hanlon, AJ to those closest to him, his ashes were laid to rest on the 10th of August 08, a rainy Sunday afternoon.
    Present were just a small group of people who loved Andrew dearly, the family didnt want anyone to know about this day, no media hype, no busy bodies, just a private last moment with their AJ.

    The only one to speak was AJ’s Mother, it was the first time I had heard her speak throughout the whole sad affair.

    The following is a Mothers heartache and her simple words of love , I hope it gives people out there a reality check, it cant help but bring a tear to you eye.

    ‘This is the day, the very moment I have been dreading for the last 6 weeks, the day when we would be finally laying Andrew to rest and letting him go of him to join hos Granddad, his Big Nannie, his Great Granddads and his Great Uncles.

    I have been through some hard times in my life but this is by far the hardest thing I have ever had to do, I never wanted or ever imagined that I would be stabding here with the people who I love and are closest to me in Life saying goodbye to one of them, my son Andrew.

    I know we are all united in our feelings of Grief,Hurt, Anger, Guilt and Sorrow us here to-day and Melanie, Nick, Danny & Mel in the US.
    These are feelings we must not be afraid to share with each other as we all understand the void and sorrow Andrew’s Killing has brought to us.
    It has broken the chain of our family never to be repaired.

    From to-day though our hearts will ache when we think of AJ or hear something that reminds us of him, we must try to think of the good times, the fun times, how he was when all the children were growing up together Melanie, Eamonn, Andrew, Mary-Kate and Danielle.

    Melanie he loved you dearly, you were his big sister who used to take AJ for little trips when he was little.
    He loved spending time with you.

    How you Eamonn and AJ could be two wild boys who your Granddad lovingly called the Hurricane and the Tornado, but you two were also both loving affectionate lads. He loved you Eamonn, you were his big brother.

    You Mary-Kate you were the closest to AJ in age , you were just a year younger and close. You must remember how you never let AJ finish a sentance when you were young, you always cut across and did it for him, he would patiently shrug his shoulders and smile. He looked after you as you were his little sister.

    Danielle will remember AJ as he always played with her, threw her up in the air and always had a hug for her, he made her light up when he was around and was so patient with her.

    Auntie Doreen you will always smile and laugh when you think of the day you gave him your golf club walking stick and he thought it was a real club, after playing for a little while with it he thought he was a real golf pro.

    Justin, you will look back and remember his frustrations in life as he as he was growing from child to teenager to young man, how sometimes he could get annoyed with things not going right and you were the one always in the firing line, but something no one else knows is that you will also remember the times in Ireland and France when you held him in your arms as you both cried trying to reassure him that things would get better. I watched on and my heart ached as you comforted my nearly grown son who was struggling with all the emotions of teenage years and realised at that moment you were his Dad.

    Liz, you have been apart of our family for 6 years and though you were his brothers girlfriend he secretly thought you were a cutie.

    As AJ’s Mommy, (thats what AJ called his Mum) I have the most memories, I carried him, gave birth to him, loved him through good times and bad. My memories are many, my love eternal, my life is shattered.
    I close my eyes and I can see him standing there his face alight with those beautiful big blue eyes looking at me, those eyes that no matter how annoyed you might be with him they could melt your anger away.
    I loved him unconditionally, I will always love him. I just wish I had had the chance to say goodbye, to hold him one last time and tell him how much I loved him.

    Andrew was taken from us before hereally had started his lifes journey, his death shows us how precious life really is. You must not sit back and let it slip by, that can happen all to fast, but live life to the full that is what AJ would have done and wanted you all to do now. He wouldnt want you to be sad and grieve for him, he would want you to be happy.

    We have lost our son, our brother our nephew our friend, but he will be with us always in our hearts, all we have to do is stop what we are doing for a brief moment and think of him and he will be there.
    He is with me everyday, everyday I talk to him and every night I kiss him good night.

    We have come together not to say goodbye to AJ but to say ‘hey we will see you soon’, because life is just a fleeting moment in time.

    We want to tell him we will not forget him and we will always love him and he will never be alone.

    I love you son, my Teddy Bear, your Mommy’.

    BOCK, what else can I say………………..

  171.  

    Talking about corruption,

    Has anyone out there read about the Andrea Matland case.
    She is an English woman who has been stitched up by the corrupt Oregon legal system.
    Its scary what has happened to this poor woman, I suggest you bloggers google for it there are so many pieces on it.

    It all happened in Linn County in Oregon, strange thing is Tony Gonzalez who Shot Andrew Hanlon has been transfered to Linn County Jail!!!!!!

  172.  

    P.S.

    If you cant find anything surfing for Andrea Matland try George or Maxine Matland too.

    You will be shocked by what you read.

  173.  

    Bock and all
    I am confident that Andrew is at peace in a paradise of his own choosing. Whether that be the hall’s of Tara with his fellow Celtic warriors or in a scented garden in some Oasis with a jug of wine, a loaf of bread and some good companions.

    Unlike the filth that murdered him and their apologist’s . They shall find no peace.

  174.  

    G, you are so right, what a beautiful sentiment.

    In addition, I too wish no peace to the ‘thing’ that murdered AJ or his cronies.

  175.  

    well guys,

    Can you believe its been two months yes eight long weeks since Aj was shot dead on the streets of Silverton.

    Tonight at 11.18pm it will be his two month Anniversary.

    More and more inconsistencies in the statements made by Gonzalez and his cohorts are starting to show, the cracks are beginning to appear.

    Of course we all knew this would happen and it was only a matter of time.

    Please take a moment of reflection today and remember AJ also remember just how lucky we all are to be still here alive today.

  176.  

    Message for Brian Keenan-Hall,

    Could you please make contact with us regarding the lady you met outside the church at Andrew’s funeral, she wishes to talk to you.
    You can mail your contact details to kittinkatiecakes@hotmail.com or onnlon@hotmail.com

    Thank you.

  177.  

    Hey Bock,

    I know a lot has been said throughout the hundreds of blogs on you site about the killing of Andrew Hanlon, you and fellow bloggers mentioned the attitude of the Oregon/Silverton Authorities and their ‘Overkill’ attitude, well get a load of the latest from Oregon

    http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2008/08/hear_the_buzz_its_defense_trai.html

    Can you imagine living in a society like this, I cant, I dont want to.

    What gets me is the laid back attitude of the citizens, but then I guess if they spoke out against this sort of theing they may be in peril for their lives. The mind boggles…………..

  178.  

    That’s insane. I can only presume it’s designed to keep the paranoia levels up. If so, it’s working. Americans genuinely do seem to believe someone is going to invade them.

  179.  

    Just couldnt believe my eyes when I came across it, and the Americans want the rest of the World to view them as sane !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Just imagine Choppers buzzing down O’Connell Street at low altitude better still imagine being woken to one hovering over the roof of you house shining a spotlight down onto your home and when you step outside to see whats happening they follow you with the beam…………scary, yes , impossible, no.

    It happens closer to home than you think……..

  180.  

    Bock,

    Yet more incredible news for you.

    The last time the family of Andrew-James Hanlon met with the DA and the Assistant DA in Salem regarding the shooting dead of their unarmed loved one AJ, they were assured that should the Grand Jury bring in a verdict of ‘Lawfull Shooting’ then they would release at once ‘ALL’ evidence pertaining to the case.

    This they promised to the family present numbering six. Six witnesses.

    After the Grand Jury brought in the above verdict the DA’s office handed over the evidence which turned out to be only part of the evidence.

    They witheld the autopsy report both written and photographic, also other written reports!!!

    It took them over a week to release what the family assumed would be the remainder of the evidence.

    NOT SO,

    Today the family have been informed that the DA’s office still have NOT released the written Autopsy report!!!!!!

    This comes 8 weeks after Andrew was shot down by Officer Tony Gonzalez.

    8 weeks ago this family asked for answers as to why their unarmed boy was shot, 8 weeks later they are still waiting for the answers and the evidence.

    WHY…………

    It is a disgraceful way to treat this grieving family, these people claim to be professionals, professional in what I ask…….Cover ups……Because thats what it looks like to me.

    WHY are they witholding evidence if they have nothing to hide.

    What the hell is going on over there?

    This case will be fading into the memory of many people as its 8 weeks old, but for the family the fight goes on against the injustice.

    Perhaps it should be said it isnt only Tony Gonzalez who acted in an unprofessional manner the night he riddled AJ with bullets, the DA and the Assistant DA have been acting and behaving in the same unprofessional manner ever since and they are fooling no one.

    What do you think Bock?

  181.  

    You already know my opinion on this.

    The authorities in Marion County are colluding in the cover-up of a murder. There can be no other reasonable conclusion.

    It’s just like the old days in Mississippi.

  182.  

    From the Statesmans Journal.

    Comment on: Silverton officer now faces sex charges at 7/14/2008 8:46 PM PDT on statesmanjournal.com
    Replying to europicolas:

    OK folks, this just in– I realize this is second hand news (hearsay), but Dorothea Carroll allegedly said this about Tony Gonzalez, “When I looked into his eyes, I saw a dead man. A man with no feeling; no love in his heart. I saw a man who is arrogant and thinks of nothing but himself. A man who is selfish, empty, and void.”

    Hmmmmm, thats good make the statement but then cover your ass by using words like ‘hearsay’ and ‘allegedly’.

    This statement of course is bull shit seeing as Andrew’s Mother Dorothea Hanlon-Carroll NEVER met Tony Gonzalez.

    On a lighter note, it would be good to meet you sometime Bock down there in the dear auld west and share an opinion or two .

  183.  

    CFF —

    Don’t rise to the bait. It’s only a detail. If you respond to everything you’ll only go crazy.

    On a lighter note, you’d be welcome. Drop in and we’ll share a scoop or two.

  184.  

    I take your point, and of course your right.

    Bock that would be great, must do that some time soon, only a scoop or two…………lol. If I only knew where there was !!!!! lol.

  185.  

    Bock……….
    Thank Christ for people like you.
    I’m an old friend of Melanies(AJ’s sister) and spoke to her at length recently about all that went on.
    The family are fully aware and very grateful for your support. Especially when you read some of the utter shite on US anti-immigration forums/blogs.
    Cheers mate.
    P.S. Love all your photography. Brilliant.

  186.  

    CFF — It’s Limerick.

    Gareth — We all do what we can.

  187.  

    The bulk of people who have been taking part in the blogs regarding Andrew ‘AJ’ Hanlons killing are of one mind that this was Murder and now there had been a Cover Up.

    Well how do you feel about official withholding of evidence?

    When AJ was shot and killed back on the 30th of June 08 an official investigation took place, family and friends hoped but did not expect this to be a fair and unbiased affair.

    They were right, it wasnt, the cover up of AJ’s murder started when he was shot on the 30th of June.

    The family were told by the DA’s office that it was going to the Grand Jury but prepared them for a verdict of ‘Justified Shooting’, so why bother with the farce of the Grand Jury.

    The DA’s office were playing the paranoid US public and the media with the face of ‘fair play’.

    Who are they kidding?

    The family were also told at these meetings that when the verdict (not if) of ‘Justified Shooting’ was made that all evidence would be handed over to the Family and their Lawyers (there were six family present, six witnesses) .

    On the day of the Grand Jury hearing, Matt Kemmy the Assistant DA personally gave a statement to the media prior to the Grand Jury realease of verdict!

    Later he handed over what the Family and Lawyers thought was all the evidence from the official investigation.

    Not so.

    They found the Autopsy reports were missing!

    It took the DA’s office a further week to hand over what the Family and Lawyers now expected to be the final piece of the official investigation.

    Not so.

    The DA’s Office did not hand over the written Autopsy. Why?

    They have officially Withheld Evidence.

    Now if you or I did this we would find ourselves behind bars.

    But then these guys think it is their right to act as they please.

    Do they seriously think this reads to the public like they are playing fair.

    No, putting it plainly it simply adds to the cover-up.

    The family have requested via their Lawyers for the release of the withheld evidence, I wish them luck.

    After all they were assured by the DA in front of six witnesses they would have full disclosure of evidence after the Grand Jury!

    To date they have still not received the Written Autopsy Report.

    And,

    Where is Killer Cop himself Tony Gonzalez? Well he has been transfered yet again to another prison, this time its Linn County.
    This County is reported to be the Most corrupt County in Oregon when it comes to Judges and Police Force.
    So, hey ho guys maybe Tony is being given a cushy time of it all be it behind bars, but it looks like he’s being looked after, surprise, surprise.

    When all is said and done all the Hanlon-Carroll Family want is answers and the truth about their boys brutal Killing
    This they are not being given.

    As time goes by more and more information is coming out about the cover up.

    To those people out there who stayed silent or lied or ommitted important facts, I suggest you rethink your positions.

    Now is the time to do the right thing, to step up to the plate and tell it as it was.

    The truth is emerging and you could find yourselves in deep shit unless you do so.

    So what if two of the Kelleys are both Lawyers they are in the middle of it all and the crud is piling up around them.

    Dont be used.

  188.  

    Hey guys just came across this on utube.

    Take a looj, there are some very interesting things said by the ‘powers that be’ regarding police training in Oregon.

    Also worth a look are some of the comments on this piece.

  189.  

    Also related is Gonzalez ‘tearful’ statement:

  190.  

    Bock
    “And so the wonder grew” how can one see a person fly their arms about without seeing the hands?
    Gonzales was tearful I suspect because his life is over. He did not wish to kill? That is why he was armed with his own Clock. A weapon of choice of our own Irish gangs .

  191.  

    Opps I am told that should read Glock. I know nothing about guns.

  192.  

    Thats true Gary it was a Glock, apparantly the Silverton Police can choose what make/model of firearm they carry.

    It has also come out that Gonzalez did not identify himself as a police officer and also did not put on the squad cars flashing lights, bearing in mind the car was further down the hill then where they were on a corner. Gonzales was on his own admission in his first statement shining a torch at Andrew this means AJ couldnt see the person in front of him and wouldnt have known it was a cop or that he had his gun pulled from the holster.

    So many inconsistancies, so many lies.

  193.  

    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
    Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
    Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it

    c.f.f.
    Rather apt?

  194.  

    That was one of my favourite poems when I was a kid.

  195.  

    Very good point Gary

    “how can one see a person fly their arms about without seeing the hands?”

    So many inconsintencies in this.

  196.  

    I wish to state that all of what happened is very sad and somewhere out there lies the truth of what happenend that night. But for those of you that are very quick to point fingers and use words such as “cover up” and “fighting the machine” I have one word. Abbeylara. If you don’t know about it, look it up. Yes this is a tragic case but lets have some perspective here and remember that we have similar problems of our own here that need to be addressed. Perhaps justice wasn’t served here but leave the xenophobia and racial slurs out of it please.

  197.  

    Can you explain how Abbeylara influenced the facts of AJ’s killing?

  198.  

    Bock read my comment again. As I said I am simply concerned about the comments regarding the nationality of the policeman involved and also the ease at which people see fit to blame the American system for a cover up when we have issues of our own to get in order. We should be careful about making such comments when there are plenty of problems within out own legal and judicial system. I just have concerns about some of the comments which make specific reference to the American system as if to imply we live in some utopian existence where no injustice or cover up has ever taken place.

  199.  

    Re Fireman Dan.

    A few points of correction and of note:
    The racial slurs started from your side. As soon as we expressed our anger and disgust at a ‘system’ that allows a police officer to shoot dead an unarmed boy with impunity, your own citizens posted here and elsewhere slagging off the Irish as being ‘wimps’, ‘whingers’ to a chorus of ‘go home’ etc., etc.

    We have received links to blog sites where hundreds of posts said that they were glad Gonzalez shot AJ dead. Quote: “one less crazy Irish illegal on our streets” The Silverton Chief of Polices’ own daughter expressed similar opinions in a radio interview.

    Abbeylara has nothing to do with this. We protested just as loudly, as a nation, for what happened there. There was a massive public outcry and it was a very rare occourance. This was a siege situation – totally different set of circumstances. All your police officers thoughout the USA armed and do not hesitate to ‘shoot to kill’ and do so on a regular basis. Never a prosecution no matter what the circumstances. Some officers even receive medals for ‘bravery’ for shooting dead unarmed citizens. How brave do you have to be with a fully loaded weapon at your disposal and are free to use it? There is no comparison. There is no bravery in shooting unarmed kids – even you and your most biased fellow citizens must agree with that.

  200.  

    Think before you write. I am Irish. I live in Ireland. Just proves my point that people are too quick to make assumptions about others.

  201.  

    I got it wrong, apologies. Fireman Dan is Irish!.

    Well, even more reason to understand the total differerence in the circumstances surrounding AJ’s execution and the Abbeylara shooting.

    There were no racial slurs that I am aware of regarding Gonzalez nationality. He’s a true blue American -born and bred! His surname just happens to have originated in a different part of the world.

    Dont cloud the issue. It is not racially abusive to call someone like Gonzalez a trigger-happy scumbag. That’s not racist, that’s a fact….no matter where he’s from.

  202.  

    Ditto…

    You should clap yourself on your self righteous back for scoring a point!

    As I said dont cloud the issue. Look at the facts before you come on here adding fuel to a fire that you have no real knowledge of….

    Put the fire out Dan…. You’ll only burn yourself……..

  203.  

    I am not drawing similarities between the 2 cases. Again if you read my original comments you will see that I am simply suggesting that we as Irish people should stop trying to be so self righteous about a cover up when we have our own house to get in order as well.
    I do not want to distract from the real issue that this blog addresses. The needless killing of a 20 year old man regardless of race or nationality. It is clear that there are so many questions that remained unanswered and I think Bock himself/herself listed a litany of them that for some reason have not been addressed. The issue I am simply raising here is that it is dangerous to point the finger at “The American System” and sit up on our pedestal of self righteousness. Leave the politics out of it and concentrate on getting more facts as it is only facts that will show where the true blame lies in this case.

  204.  

    Thanks Fireman Dan, but can you clarify what that has to do with AJ’s killing?

  205.  

    To finish with the Fireman Dan thread…

    You should paractice what you preach FD. Go back and read ALL the posts from day one both here and elsewhere, particularly the posts made on some of the US blog sites like the oregonian and others to get a real idea of what was and wasn’t said regarding AJ’s execution. Read all the eye witnesses accounts, news links etc., because its obvious you haven’t a notion of what the issues are here and why most fair-minded peoiple are furious about what has gone on since that shocking night.

    What makes my gut turn is when people like you come out ‘late in the day’ with phrases like;

    “I wish to state that all of what happened is very sad and somewhere out there lies the truth of what happenend that night”. (Translated: Yeah its a bit of a bummer but what about the poor cop? he was only doing his job – sure aren’t all American cops great lads!)

    What a load of bollocks. Wake up. It is you who who sits on a pedestal in self-righteous judgement of all, both at home and in the USA, who have justly and honestly spoken out against this twisted ‘system’. You have your head buried in the sand FD if you are to deny (nor even suspect) that this ‘system’ is unjust, unfair and corrupt.

    AJ was an unarmed boy who was shot dead by an trigger-happy cop. Gonzalez was a physically powerful man, fully armed and highly trained in martial arts. He was given that power by the ‘system’ we have spoken about here. He was exonnerated by that self-serving ‘system’.

    People on this site have had plenty of time over the past months to debate and analyse what happened in Silverton that night and what has happened since. Many people here have intimate and first hand knowledge of all the facts. You do not. Aquaint yourself first with ALL the details, information, misinformation, facts, truths and lies before commenting further…if ever again.

    It is not self righteousness to express our utter indignation at that ‘system’, it is our right and duty to make our voices heard and to support AJ’s family by doing so.

  206.  

    Bock,

    The point I am trying to make is 2 fold really.

    Firstly what those people who are genuinely seeking the truth and justice here must do is stick to the facts and not let passionate opinion get in the way. I am simply saying that making generalised comments about what is universally accepted as strong armed and zero tolerance law enforcement policies in America is not helpful here. Yes there are probably numerous incidents of unarmed civilians being killed by police but stick to what this blog is really about. Finding the facts about what really happened to AJ that night. If it becomes a vehicle to simply have a go at a heavy handed police force in a corrupt state and nation then AJ’s case will be lost somewhere in the mist of it all.

    The second point I was simply trying to make is that we cannot be holier than thou when it comes to these things. Let us not pretend that we are living in a country that has marvellously high standards in public life, including our law enforcement agencies. Again by going down this road I feel it is only again going to deflect the argument from what should be really discussed, the facts of AJ’s case. If people on this site and people who are actively pursuing the truth in this killing go down the road of trying to expose the whole American system of law enforcement and make broad statements about their methods it simply gives opportunities to others to moce the argument down a different route. We cannot pretend that we are coming from a high pedestal on this one so let’s not. Instead of expressing opinion those with a real interest in this case should stick to unearthing facts and exercising pressure to have questions answered. With some of the comments that have been made this could easily become a “our society is better than your society” type schoolground debate. Remember that the proof that a major injustice took place here will only come through the establishment of fact. And to date as Bock has shown before, there are too many unanswered questions here.
    It smells of rat undoubtedly and I would question whether or not the police officer in question was the first shooter here but people please be careful of expressing generalised opinions that will deflect this argument.

  207.  

    Dan — Thanks for your opinion on what this post is about, but ultimately that’s for me to decide.

    Also, I’ve learned by now how to keep it on track, and I have no intention of letting it be deflected by discussion of other, unrelated events.

    If you want to talk about the shortcomings of the Irish police, I recommend that you look at all the other posts I’ve written on that subject.

    This particular topic is about the killing of AJ Hanlon.

  208.  

    Egan Family you are simply making matters worse and supporting my last argument by interpreting what I am saying. If I was expressing sympathy for the policeman involved here I WOULD SAY IT.
    Please do not interpret what I am saying as something else here. If you actually read what I was saying you will see what I mean. You are choosing to read something into my words that SIMPLY ISN’T THERE.
    Once again my point is avoid opinion until you can back it up by fact.
    I am not contesting any of the facts in the case here.
    AJ was unarmed and killed by a trained, strong, fight experienced policeman. I am not disputing this.
    But if you persist in making this an issue about opinion nothing will be achieved.
    You seem to think I’m on the side of the police here and you are so far off the mark I wonder are you really reading what I’m saying. In fact you choose to read what I say and then re-phrase it. As I said earlier please do not re-phrase my words to put a meaning or sentiment in them that doesn’t exist.
    Your passion in this case is admirable but if you continue to stray from fact and insist on interpreting and expressing an opinion you will not make any headway here.
    I think continued reference should be made to Bocks comments/questions (not sure if it’s on this thread or elsewhere – Bock you may clarify) but to my mind those are the issues that need to be addressed. If this turns in to some witch hunt then it will get nowhere.
    My original point alluded to this fact but for some reason you seem to think I was stating something entirely different. I am anticipating another counter argument from you now as I feel that you will take up a contrary position to anything I say.

  209.  

    Right. Let this be an end of it.

    I’m not aware that any racist comments were permitted on this thread or any other.

    It’s true that Gonzalez’s name didn’t originate in America, but then again, neither did GW Bush’s or Donald Rumsfeld’s or pretty much anyone’s except Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse.

    It’s also my belief that the system was used by the DA, the sheriff and the good people of Silverton to obscure the details of Aj’s killing.

    It’s also a fact that the Irish police have absolutely nothing to do with this case.

    Now can we please stop squabbling?

    Thank you everyone.

  210.  

    Yeah you’re right there FD. I am responding in the negative to what you have said/written. I have read all of what you have written above and I completely get where you are coming from but the problem is you don’t get it! you are still missing the point……

    It’s not about you or me taking stances against each other because frankly I dont give a shit about your opinion. AJ’s Mom, Dad and brother and sisters don’t give a shit about your opinion. I doesn’t matter nor does it count here. I/we only care about what happened to AJ and not that you’ve got the hump because people on this blog have offended you in some way by attacking a corrupt unjust ‘system’ that you don’t belong to but choose to defend and pupport to know so much about

    Your reference to Abbeylara was pathetic. You didn’t even check this site to see whether it had been mentioned or discussed by others in relation to AJ or previously when the incident actually happened.

    I repeat. READ the goddam posts…ALL of them before returning with more patronising comments.

    This is my final comment to you FD.

  211.  

    Unlike FD I have read every single post on this site regarding the murder of Andrew James Hanlon, or ‘AJ’ to his family and friends.

    It is my opinion that the people here on Bocks site for the most part have not lost site of the real issue which is the killing and subsequent cover up of the slaughter of this young Irish lad.

    The only time the issue was side tracked is when certain bloggers came on with anti Irish slurs , pro American law enforcement comments and fanatically waving the red white and blue.
    Indeed it was these very people who brought racism into it, in fact I have been to the US on many occasions over the last 20 years, to many different parts and the ‘Land of the SO called free’ isnt so FREE for many of its citizens. In fact its probably one of the most racist places I have ever been to.

    Every one is entitled to their opinion, however, murder is murder in any mans language.
    Shooting dead an unarmed youth with ‘FIVE’ bullets is just that, MURDER.

    I do take the moral high ground and make NO apologies for it as I know whats going on.

    I will point fingers because there is a cover up.

    Why else do you think the DA’s office is withholding evidence……………

    There are certain types of bloggers that come onto sites such as this one and get involved in emotionally charged issues such as the killing of Andrew-James Hanlon. They come on simply to be argumentative and get peoples backs up, people like this have no place here and I find their behavior both disgraceful and appalling.

    Bock over the last three months since AJ was killed has managed to ferret out through his contributors and research many facts on this case and has made public this information.
    I hope he continues to do so as the Hanlon-Carroll family need the help of people like Bock and the postees here on BTR , it is through sites like this that the truth can emerge, it can be a vehicle for witnesses and enables them to impart their knowledge of the facts.

    FD, so what if people posting on this site sound emotional, upset or even angry about the slaying of ‘AJ’, they should be, you should be.

    Try putting yourself in the shoes of the Family and friends of this young lad. Imagine someone close to you being pumped with bullets in a strange land and left to die in a pool of his own blood on a lonely dark street….
    They have to live with this every day of their lives, the least they deserve is answers.
    They are also entitled to the the evidence they were promised and assured they would be given, a promise made by the Marion County District Attorney ‘Walt Begleu’ and his side kick Assistant DA ‘Matt Kemmy’, this they were promised two and a half months ago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FD you rattle on saying people should not making comments unless they have the facts when actually its you who doesn’t have the facts, if you would just take the time to read through all the information here on this site you might find it enlightening.
    It would defiantly give you a better insight.
    Then you would know just how much a cover up is really going on.

    A cover up in Oregon by a system who has never indicted a Police Officer for an Unlawful Shooting over the last 30 years !!!!
    AND this information came directly from the DA himself.

    He told this to AJ’s grieving Mother only 11 days after her son had been shot down on the streets of Silverton by one of his boys in blue, how about that for sensitivity, they couldn’t give a damn .

  212.  

    OK. I think we need to draw a line under Fireman Dan’s point. It’s a distraction from the issue and people have said what they wanted to say about it.

    Time to get back on track.

  213.  

    to close family friend and the egan family~

    i so honor your loyalty and all the reaserch you’ve all done on behalf of andrew and his family~ your boldness has unsettling power to it, please~ don’t ever loose that!

    just wondering what you all would think of an idea i had tonight: do you all think we could start some sort of (loose/unstructured) forum to deliberate the questions bock had, a while back~ and also, if we could all download each investigation report, just one by one, and disect each report???
    i’ll bet we have the ability amongst us all, to prepare a reputably persuasive report which could be used as cause for re-investigation of
    andrew’s death.
    wanted you to also know: this is my busiest
    business part of year, am still with you every single day in my thoughts and have not let go for a minute~ please carry my love and support to your families and a.j.’s family too~
    jstone

  214.  

    Jane
    A very good idea. However I am of the opinion that it would be akin to going to law with the Devil and the Court in Hell. His daemons are the Judge and Jury..

  215.  

    gary~
    my thoughts here were this: that the state of oregon, for many different reasons~ came to conclusions on this case by “staging” the circumstances and then creating their “data” to back it up. if we (collectively) were to gather up all of the data, sift through it and narrow it out, i believe we could arrive at a place where we could petition a new investigation. i’ve read major inconsistencies in state’s evidence
    through the reports alone. also, there is the recorded fact from the d.a. in marion county who presented the case to grand jury, that he did not “need” my testimony~ even though i heard the entire event. he said he had “enough” witnesses, that is: de santis and gonzolas. i have recently heard that another neighborhood witness has come forth.
    what you’re saying though~ is you believe there is no where we can go with any of this information? i hope to hear more from you here~ thank you gary, jane stone

  216.  

    Jane

    I regret that such an horrific event should ever had taken place. The fact that that that you witnessed it and were ignored is of deep concern. However I am of the opinion that even if we could present the eye witness accounts of all the good citizens of Silverton (leaving out the bad apples) we would still get nowhere.

    We can not fight “Tammany Hall”.

  217.  

    gary~ there weren’t that many eye witnesses, so far a couple at the very most, (at least who have come foreward.) this is tiny hamlet, and not that many neighbors who are living exactly where event ended, with andrew’s death. remember this was also after 11:p.m. on a monday night. i just happen to work until very late at night, and also my residence is right up hill from my studio, exactly across from where andrew went to door. i know neighborhood well, as have lived here since 80’s. what i heard and saw on june 30th is totally different from law enforcement reports.
    however, there are also obvious discrepencies in “witness testimony” such as the time factors, and then there’s the fact that one report describes a
    witness saying a police officer was walking around with a shotgun, looking to give it to “someone.” the first call to 911, has the
    “suspect” already being shot, an early witness gives statement on record saying a.j. was chased “down oak street hill” later testimony by de santis has a.j. running in back of houses
    and emerging in a front yard on oak and mill,
    police report shows this took approximately 5-6 seconds, (an impossibility) there were pictures shown in press, of vehicle back window shot out by gun at scene, yet this is never mentioned again, nor is it mentioned in grand jury reports,also, the husband of 911 (second caller) never interviewed by any police or investigators…..
    thses are just a few off the top discrepencies in the case. you truly don’t believe, with all of the things that are omitted, fabricated etc.,
    that this case would not be possible to re-open? what you are saying is
    there is no hope here, of justice? i don’t think i am ready to accept that. please respond.
    jstone

  218.  

    Jane,

    Can you please tell me more about the new witness that has come forward, I haven’t heard about this.

    Who have they spoken to ??

    What have they said??

    Thanks

  219.  

    dear close family friend~
    here is exactly what i’ve heard: stopped by to talk with candy a couple of weeks ago, and she said someone had contacted her by phone, saying they were a witness. she, in turn gave the caller the name and phone number of the hanlon attorneys’ detective who is working on the case. this is the full extent of what i know, regarding a new witness. am certain if you were to contact candy, she could tell you more. please keep in touch~ blessings and hope for justice! jstone

  220.  

    Hey Jane ,
    Thanks for that. Have mailed Candy but have had no reply yet.

    Hopefully I will soon.

    Lets hope its good news for Andrew’s case.

  221.  

    Apologies if this is off subject but on a trip this weekend to Seattle I read a piece in the Seattle Times of Sunday 28 September. It reported the acquittal of a man in Laredo, Texas, for the shooting dead of a burglar who had broken into his house.

    The piece explains that, under Texan law, householders are allowed to use deadly force to protect themselves and their property and the accused says he feared for his life. So far, so ordinary and tragic.

    But the report explains further – the deceased was a 13 year-old boy. One of 4 aged between 11 and 15 who broke into the unoccupied trailer to look for “snacks and soda”. They were unarmed and the accused (who was up the road visiting someone else) confronted them with his 16 gauge shotgun.

    He forced the boys to their knees and, whilst they begged for forgiveness, hit and kicked them and then shot the 13 year old in the back at point blank range. 2 Twinkie cakes and cookies were recovered from his pocket.

    The accused greeted the verdict by saying that it “was my life or theirs” and thanked God. They report that many citizens of Laredo were outraged that the accused had been charged at all.

    Dear God! The really scary thing about this report is how matter-of-factly it is presented, with a by-the-by mention of another Texas case of similar infamy that rated a one line mention. No-one, except the victim’s family, expresses any outrage or surprise and I expect that they’ll get the same treatment as those who fight for justice in AJ’s case.

    I recommend adding Texas to the list of states to avoid.

  222.  

    What can one add to the above Blog…………

    I hear what your saying and understand completely your out rage.

    The more I hear of cases like this and the incomprehensible attitude of a lot of the American people the more it sounds like brainwashing.

    Have these people no heart

    Have these people no compassion

    Have they no basic understanding of humanity

    Obviously not,

    They appear to be cold hearted, ruthless with a couldn’t give a damn if its not on my door step attitude.

    I truly hope the people who think like this and talk like this never have to experience what families in these situations have to.

    OR

    Perhaps maybe something as dreadful as AJ’s murder or the slaughter of this young 13 year old boy should happen to them.
    Maybe if they could feel the pain of loosing a loved one senselessly it would wake these idiots up.

  223.  

    Jane
    Regrettably the Texas case rather proves my point. When the killer dies I doubt that it will thank God for his judgement! I am of the opinion that if God chose to give testimony in Andrews case. God would be dismissed as irrelevant.

  224.  

    I just recently moved away from Oregon and the cops are part of the reason. That state is literally a Ku Klux Klan state. A word to any future travellers there, AVOID THE COPS AT ALL COSTS. Hell, just avoid Oregon, there’s other scenery.

    I’m very sorry for AJ and his family.

  225.  

    That’s right.

    And Silverton is a Ku Klux Klan town. It’s about time somebody said it.

  226.  

    My goodness, Bock.
    This blog is slowly moving from being a vehicle for justified indignation to one for nasty mud slinging. Calling Silverton a KKK town is rich coming from a man who compares Zionism to Nazism.

    I have always admired your ability to keep the discourse on track, but calling a town of 9000 people a “KKK” town is kind of fucked up. Have you lived here? Are you a black man, Jewish man, hispanic man, living in Silverton? You have effectively now moved the topic from AJ’s untimely, unjustified, and tragic death to how crappy the people of Silverton are. Eh?

    Have a nice day on your perch.

  227.  

    I didn’t say everybody in Silverton is a member of the KKK, but I do believe the Klan has influence there, as it does throughout Oregon, and that makes it a KKK town in my eyes.

    I would like to put you in touch with my sources for this, but that would wrong of me, as everyone who contacts this site is guaranteed anonymity should they request it.

    There are secret societies averywhere, some benign and some vicious. This town I live in used to have a nasty undercurrent of intolerance as well, but we didn’t move on from those days by denying it.

    Finally, could I just give you a gentle reminder regarding the site policy on posting under different names?

  228.  

    Bock,

    My impression is that you enjoy posting incendiary comments, getting a reaction, and then adding some note about secret sources and anonymity. Somehow you always end up seeming righteous and all knowing. I was not aware of your policy regarding posting under different names and I did not do so for any reason other than to communicate a certain amount of incredulity.

    My name is Gary. I have posted to this site before. More importantly, I have acknowledged Silverton’s issues. Some of us work hard in this town at leveling the playing field and rooting out intolerance. I am a white Jewish man – my wife is Japanese. I have 2 kids who are multi-racial and I take these issues very seriously. I can’t stand it when people make general statements about any population. It’s just a nasty counterproductive thing to do and I believe it is PART OF THE PROBLEM.

    Your sources are silly. Do you think we don’t know that racial intolerance exists in our town and our state? And please don’t mistake my response as denial. My response comes from a belief that we all have a responsibility to make this place we live in better. You seem to have quite a following and some amount of influence. I would think someone in your position would avoid making blanket statements like “Silverton is a KKK town”. This seems to be the ilk of a man who seeks to divide.

  229.  

    Bock
    WOW! I thought the good ol boys in sheets had gone away. It seems not. Perhaps “What the “ is the “Grand Dragon of the local Klan?

  230.  

    Gary our postings crossed. I am sure that you are not in the Klan.

  231.  

    Gary Ireland – Are you kidding me? Seriously? Is that your only contribution? It reminds me of being on a playground with a 4th grader who is pulling someone’s hair. Say something with meaning, you boner.

  232.  

    Gary (What-The) — As I said already, if somebody explicitly requests me not to quote them by name, I will always respect that. Therefore I am not in a position to provide you with the details of any correspondents, just as I would respect your right to privacy if you had requested it.

    I stand over my assertion that the KKK has not gone away in Silverton, though it may be more discreet these days. In just the same way, certain intolerant organisations here continue to operate to the benefit of their members while maintaining a low profile.

    If you concentrated on the thrust of what I’m trying to say, you would see that the issue I’m talking about is not racial intolerance in this instance. I’m talking about people closing ranks and banding together to protect each other after a wrong has been done.

    Finally, I have no influence whatever, but I can provide people with a forum if they want to use it. I have no agenda, other than getting to the bottom of this crime, even if that involves offending people. You might, however, be correct about seeking to divide. If I can create a division between those who want the truth and those who wish to hide it, I won’t apologise for that.

    Gary Ireland — No. You’d be wrong in thinking that the other Gary is a member of any organisation. His previous contributions have all been sympathetic towards the Hanlon family’s plight.

  233.  

    Gary Ireland – Our postings definitely crossed. My apologies for call you a boner. Seriously – sorry.

  234.  

    Bock – I understand the thrust of what you are saying and have said all along. I think you’ll find that we Americans — those of us who are thinking, breathing, caring creatures — are a bit touchy these days (we are bombarded by half truths every day, pitched by mental midget politicians). Your sentiment is admirable, but I stand by my statement. Your post was disturbing — not because of any semblance of truth — but because of the inaccuracy.

  235.  

    Gary — OK. In that case I’ll have to return to various sources and challenge them.

    However, I have to tell you that there’s a straightforward conflict. One one hand, I have people reporting first-hand experience of Klan activity and I have no reason to disbelieve what I’ve been told. On the other hand, I have your position which – if I understand it correctly – is that there are no Klan members in Silverton.

    Please correct me if I misinterpret what you’re saying.

    These are diametrically opposite positions and it seems your argument would make Silverton unique in Oregon. Clearly, it would be difficult, if not impossible, for you to determine absolutely that the Klan doesn’t exist in Silverton, without investigating every single member of the population. While I’m not saying that this proves anything, I have, as I said, no reason to disbelieve my other correspondents.

  236.  

    Bock – we are arguing semantics. I think you know that. I said in my earlier post that I recognize Silverton’s problems. Believe me. I know there is intolerance and racism. I had a contractor come to my house and make a bid for repairing my concrete driveway. When I tried to inquire as to how he came up with the price he quoted, he accused me of “Jewing him down” on the price. In my own driveway…in Silverton. I get it. My point was not say that it doesn’t exist. My point is to say that I truly feel that one can make more progress in changing it by looking at the cup as 1/2 full. Your post, possibly read by thousands of people who have never been to Silverton, Oregon, or America simply reads “Silverton is a KKK town”. It’s just shit. Your comment may be true – semantically…but it is not accurate in practice. That’s all I am saying.

  237.  

    I wish we were arguing about semantics. I enjoy debating trivial details and I’ve been known to stay up all night fighting over some little inconsequential morsel, but I’m afraid this isn’t one of those occasions.

    It’s never nice to hear things said about your home town. I know this. People have said hard things about my town, but unfortunately, sometimes they’re right, even though I might not like it.

    Whether you want to talk about the KKK or use some other term, I firmly believe that what we saw in the AJ Hanlon case was clear evidence of an underground movement. I believe that the official authorities acted with members of the public to obfuscate, obstruct and frustrate any attempts to reveal the truth behind the crime that happened in Silverton.

    You can hardly be unaware of Oregon’s KKK history. Do you believe that all the families who subscribed to this mindset have put their bigotry aside? More to the point, are you saying that all the structures underpinning it were dismantled?

    The Klan, in my view, did not go away. It’s not in the nature of such organisations to disappear. And while they might not be out burning crosses at the moment, I certainly think they continue to meet, and it would be wrong to think that they don’t rally round when people need support.

  238.  

    Gary That’s O.K. I do not know what a “boner” is ,it is not a term of abuse over here to the best of my knowledge .
    However there seems to be something rotting in the state of Oregon ,that needs to be rooted out. Andrew was not the first nor shall he be the last. Unless the good say NO.
    As to the “Jew” remark are there no laws against that sort of thig in America? There are over here.

  239.  

    That might be a little optimistic of you Gary. The anti-hatred laws here are fairly weak and in any case you can’t legislate people’s prejudices out of existence.

    However, let us not be diverted from the main point of the discussion.

  240.  

    Bock-
    I’m just going to start calling you “Yoda”. Master Jedi of debate (this is a compliment, by the way).

    I get what you are saying. I don’t dispute Oregon’s KKK roots, etc. When I say “semantics” I don’t mean to minimize. Merely meant that I am stuck on the label.

    Ok – I have work to do. Must maintain my value in the workplace as the economy goes in the shitter.

    Best,
    Gary

  241.  

    Bock
    Straight question are we going to get justice for the death of Andrew Hanlon? Or for the child murdered in Texas?
    I am of the opinion that the answer is NO. Not now not never no way.

  242.  

    Good man, Gary.

    By the way, did you notice that Mr Richard Severin Fuld, Jr, former CEO of Lehman Bros took home $480 million since 2000?

    That would contrast with the amount each shareholder will walk away with : $0.

    Gary Ireland — I don’t know. It depends what you mean by justice.

    I would not regard retribution as justice, but I would like to see the truth emerge. I’m not interested in a witch-hunt, and that’s not what this site is about, but I would like the people who did this terrible thing to listen to their own hearts. They’re not monsters and they must know they’ve stolen a young life and left a family destroyed. They must know that the only right thing to do is come forward and tell the truth.

    Retribution won’t heal the Hanlons’ pain, whereas honest acknowledgement by those involved just might help the family as they move on with their lives.

    We can only hope some decency survives.

  243.  

    Yeah – he’s talking with congress now. I’m sure the feds will make him pay for his sins. Or not….God bless capitalism, democracy, and free markets.

  244.  

    Bock
    O.K. point taken I shall away.

  245.  

    gary ireland~ don’t you dare “i shall away.”
    we need you here, and so do the hanlons. we don’t let you give up, it is not an option.
    not til we have exhausted every avenue toward justice. we depend on your words, and your spirit… you shan’t go yet….. we don’t let you.

  246.  

    Firstly after reading recent posts I felt I had to write.

    I would like to thank Gary (Silverton) for his support within his posts for Andrew ‘AJ’ Hanlon and his family in their quest for justice.
    I also sympathize with him some what as no one likes their home town Labeled or Painted in a negative light.

    However, unfortunately many of the towns folk and the authorities are to be held responsible for also for bringing this pretty town into disrepute by their disgraceful behavior.

    1) Officer Tony Gonzalez of the Silverton gunned down an UNARMED youth.

    2) The Chief of Police in this town made inappropriate statements following AJ’s death and his daughter went on Radio and expressed how she was ‘glad AJ was dead’…………………….

    3) Now astonishingly this week at a town meeting in Silverton the Mayor Ken Hector basically said Andrew’s killing was no big deal as this was only the second time in forty years that a police officer in Silverton had pulled his gun!!!!!!!

    Its not the first time someone in Silverton and the State of Oregon has shown NO compassion toward the loss of life of this young 20 year old lad and his family. It is attitudes like this that nurtures hatred and negative feelings toward Silverton , Oregon and the USA in general and it ALL brought on by the Citizens themselves.

  247.  

    Bock and Friends, apart from the NEW news in the previous posting here’s some more for you to digest.

    A member of Andrew’s family called to the Court house in Portland to inquire when EX Officer Tony Gonzalez was next due in court with relation to his Sex Abuse charges on a minor.
    Thay were told the next court date would be in November but they couldn’t attend as……wait for it…….it wouldn’t be held in OPEN court, it was being held in the ‘Judges Chambers’.

    In the name of God what the F*** are they doing.

    Is this guy going to walk on these charges too…..

    Don’t you think its shaping up like that!

    I have NEVER heard of anything like this before.

    This is just blatant and they don’t give a damn.

  248.  

    It might not be as sinister as you think. It could be to do with preserving the child’s privacy.

  249.  

    Close family friend,
    I wish I had been at the council meeting on Monday night. I am assuming that is where comments like this by Hector would have been made. I am surprised he would say anything at all as I am sure there must be civil litigation pending.

    The Chief of Police is a complete Putts – agree with you on that one. Ken Hector is a republican, after all — like other republicans he is more than happy to turn the page on important issues. You’ll be glad to know that he did demand that our civil defense alarm be adjusted so that it sounds at exactly noon – it seems to be 5 minutes fast.

  250.  

    Agree with Bock – often times these things are dealt with in chambers – especially when a minor child is involved. There could be some kind of plea deal, too.

  251.  

    Don’t you think he’s had a plea deal already, I do.

    He walked away on the AJ Hanlon killing…………..

  252.  

    Does it matter? The child-abuse charge has nothing to do with Andrew’s killing.

  253.  

    Noted – good point.

  254.  

    Gary (Silverton)
    The Police Chief being a putts and Hector being a Republican does not excuse either of them for their behavior, does it.

  255.  

    It might not excuse it, but perhaps it explains it.

    Gary, is that Putts or Putz?

  256.  

    Personally, I think it has.

    His state of mind on killing AJ is in question.
    He was NEVER given an evaluation after killing AJ.

    The fact he had been abusing a minor who just happened to be his step daughter has to have screwed up his head.

    Most abusers are self hating and have issues relating to Power.

    So YES I do believe they are related.

    Apart from which, I have a gut feeling there has been a deal drawn up for Gonzalez which draws the cases together.

  257.  

    I have difficulty with this for a number of reasons.

    First, the Silverton case was not as simple as one policeman shooting an innocent boy. There were other factors at work that still need to be exposed and we all know what those factors were.

    Second, on a more general level, it’s a fundamental principle of natural justice that we don’t seek to condemn a man on one accusation by invoking another. This isn’t to protect Gonzalez. It’s to protect you and me.

  258.  

    Ok Bock I take your point.

    I understand where your coming from.

    Tho I have to confess the latest news from Oregon has my blood boiling and if I were truly to give you all my inner most thoughts on the Murder of AJ, well not only would we be here all night but I imagine you and I would be debating them for a long long time and they may be more than most are willing to hear.

  259.  

    close family friend – of course being a putz (not putts….) and a republican doesn’t excuse anything.

  260.  

    As you perhaps know, Yiddish wouldn’t be widely spoken in Ireland, but I’m guessing a putz is something similar to a schmuck.

  261.  

    Sorry Garry (Silverton),

    I stand corrected, however, I copied your spelling Garry !!!!!!!!!

    Post No. 253.

  262.  

    I know I misspelled it – I was referring to Bock’s correction of my original post.

    And yes, a putz is an idiot – often interchangeable with schmuck, dimwitted fool, schmo….

  263.  

    I don’t think putz and schmuck originally meant idiot.

  264.  

    Well no – they originally meant penis or foreskin. In most common contexts, they are used to mean dolt, idiot, etc.

  265.  

    I know. I had an old friend in London years ago who spoke Yiddish and he used to love telling schmuck jokes.

  266.  

    Here’s a few questions, not aimed at anyone in particular.

    1. Did a Klan member remove the memorial created by Andrew’s friends at the place where he was murdered?

    2. Did a float ever appear in Silverton’s July 4 parade, marked “Brotherhood of the Northwest White Knights”?

    3. If such a float took part in the parade, was it licensed by Silverton city hall?

  267.  

    Bock,
    1) REgarding the memorial – who knows who removed it?
    2) THere is no Fourth of July parade in Silverton. There is a parade in August during Homer Davenport Days, but no parade for 4th of July. Mt. Angel, a neighboring community, has a 4th parade. I think if there had been float representing KKK, it would have been pretty big news here and I would hope I’d have heard about it.
    3) I don’t think this question really applies.

    Honestly, I am intensely curious about what you are getting at. Is there some sense that the KKK has had something to do with this miscarriage of justice (or total lack of justice)?

  268.  

    Gary — I believe a man was seen removing the items, and I also understand that City Hall knows his identity.

    Are you saying there has never been a July 4 parade, or that it was discontinued?

    Regarding the removal of the memorial, I’m asking if anyone knows the affiliations of the man who destroyed it. On a broader level, I’m inquiring into the possibility of a culture of secrecy.

  269.  

    Hey guys,

    Just thought you would be interested to know that the IRISH Coroner has set a date for the Inquest into Andrew’s death.

    Its not for some time and I do have the details, however,currently friends and family are being informed.

    Im sure true friends of the family will be welcome to attend but the people with just morbid curiosity seeking gruesome details of this young mans killing will not be.

  270.  

    The ripples of the pond are spreading further. I am an American, married to a first generation Irish-American. We went to Ireland and fell in love with the gentleness and courtesy, and the warmth of the people.

    I am totally distressed at the lack of justice to AJ and his family. Someone said earlier that the reputation of America has suffered badly in the last eight years or so, and nowhere is it more obvious than in AJ’s murder and lack of justice. It is hoped that the outrage will be remedied very soon.

    My sympathies are with his family, here and in Ireland. To his friends and others who care for AJ, your lamentations should continue to rale against the halls of justice for the untimely and unwarranted loss of such a gentle soul.

  271.  

    Yes there is a lack of Justice, we as caring people must stand up and fight for the justice.

    We must make our voices heard and impress upon the so called powers that be that we will not go away.

    They must be held accountable for their behavior and the injustice that has been done.

  272.  

    Please Show your support…..

    The cousins of Andrew-James ‘AJ’ Hanlon are holding a Benefit Night for AJ’s family on the 7th of November at 8.30 pm, it will be a Fun Quiz Night and is being held in Scholars Lounge, Firhouse, Dublin 24 .

    Tickets are available now from Kate Hanlon at 085 1250726.

  273.  

    This is the four month anniversary of the death of Andrew-James ‘AJ’ Hanlon.

    You were such a bright shining spirit AJ and you light was extinguished far too soon.

    We all love you and miss you terribly.

    You are always and forever in our thoughts and we will never forget you.

  274.  

    tonight, at 11:34, i walked across the street to the place where andrew’s life ended~
    andrew~
    this is my prayer, that one day your soul will know the justice you were never given here on earth.
    and those of us who know what happened yet do nothing to help expose the truth, are only “helping” those who took your life. i pray each person who can help, will come foreward.

    may your soul rest in peace, sweet irish lad that you are and always will be~
    may you be dancing and singing and laughing~
    surrounded by love
    and may your soul be safe, forevermore…

  275.  

    Is there any chance that the new mayor of Silverton will be more sympathetic to the case of AJ and his family? The news indicates that he has been active in politics of the town for about 20 years. Does his election bode well for more responsible government?

    Hardly a day goes by that I do not think of the needless loss of AJ’s young life.

    Peace be with you always, AJ.

  276.  

    I would like to think that the new Mayor Stu Rasmann is the good choice for change, he has been in this position before in Silverton.

    Also he knew ‘AJ’ and had sat with ‘AJ’ on many occasions over coffee.

    ‘AJ’s’ Mum met ‘Stu’ when she went to bring her son home to Ireland and he conveyed his sympathies to her.

    It would be nice to think we are entering a new era in the US and we all live in hope.
    Perhaps the new Mayor will be spurred onto change by the election of the New President, who knows.

    Perhaps with this change justice will be brought a little closer for our beloved ‘Andrew’.

  277.  

    He received a huge mandate – and that’s encouraging.

  278.  

    Lest we forget…………………………….

    Shane Geoghegan an innocent man ‘MURDERED’ by Law Breakers……….

    Andrew-James Hanlon ‘AJ’ an innocent boy ‘MURDERED’ by a Law Inforcer………

    May they sleep with the Angels.

  279.  

    Another needless waste of a young life. I am so much hoping that the climate of fear and suspicion prevalent since 9/11 will abate now that a new administration is soon to take over. It won’t get better unless each citizen takes part though. I, for one, vow to be active in local politics and let everyone know what I believe should happen.

    We might be able to change the world, but it must start with each of us reaching out and touching what is within our reach. Be good to those you meet. Who knows but what an unkindness may be the last straw for them? The straw that breaks the camel’s back? We will all be held accountable one day for the things we have done and left undone.

    Life is precious. If you are reading here at Bocktherobber, you are conscious of the injustices reported in this discussion about Andrew. Take the fire brands brandished here and light fires elsewhere, in those around you. Awareness of the loss of freedom in our society is important. Share what you believe. Speak up.

  280.  

    It is funny how people portray this shooting an unjustified and he was just a harmless person. The person who made the 911 call with him screaming in the background and trying to break down their door obviously did not feel the same way. Now I know that the fact he was screaming “I am the angel of death” and trying to break down some poor resident’s door might not get to you but the fact that when they reviewed the door they found blood stains from him ramming it so hard may indicate he did not have the best intentions for the family inside. What would have happened to that lady and her kids if he would have been able to kick in that door? Now you can say he had a mental condition and he was not able to control his actions but when he is that out of control he should never have been allowed to be outside of an institution.

  281.  

    You obviously know nothing about the case. Come back with a sensible comment after you’ve educated yourself.

  282.  

    Don’t worry mike, Palin 2012 should fix that for you. Around December 23 if the Mayans were correct…

    In the meantime why don’t you fuck off (apologies Bock)

  283.  

    Lets try to keep our dignity in the face of stupidity such as Mike’s.

  284.  

    mike~ why does it not occur to you that the blood of andrew’s, which was found on the door of the kelley residence where andrew was banging~ could surely have come from a gunshot wound to andrew? the 1st or 2nd call to 911, from this address~ BEFORE the call to 911 from shanno kelley, was from someone whose name was taken by dispatch as “tom kelley” and the call was coded in as a “5” meaning
    “alleged suspect down” ‘down’ in police code means shot. and it was also recorded by dispatcher that caller tom kelley advised “subject is unarmed.”
    andrew was clearly begging for help~ yes, he was
    screaming and carrying on, so… who among us
    (under like circumstances) would not have been screaming and pounding and ramming at a door to try to get help? he did the same thing at the bottom of the hill~ he was screaming for help~ i personally heard andrew that time. and i also know he had been shot because i heard him being shot. you know, the key here is research~ the police reports have all the info. you need to put pieces together of what truly did happen~and what truly didn’t. the other thing? if you were to open your mind to all the facts in this case, it would point you straightaway to all of the fallicies…
    (instead of shutting your mind down, to within a defined
    perimeter of what you are choosing to believe)then
    this whole tragedy would reveal itself to you.
    remember, mike~ any incident, opinion, ruling, reporting~etc. etc. no matter what it is, can be construed in a way to make it 180% different than what it is or was or will be. this is why it is so vital to not fall into a certain mindset, but to research first, then all of
    your thoughts have room to excercise and
    weigh different elements. conclusions are always there for us, providing we study each
    circumstance with pure intention of collecting
    all the facts.

  285.  

    and p.s. to mike~ when you mention “he should never have been allowed outside an institution”
    he was never diagnosed, for starters, then there is the fact that worldwide, 5 out of every 10 young adults from ages 16 through 24, have (at least) one major mental meltdown during this time of their life.
    that’s 1/2 the population of 16 to 24 year olds living on the planet and think of it: if what
    happened to andrew, an unarmed 120# 20 year old good, decent lad~ who was going through rough mental times, if every human being in this age group was shot in the back for needing help~ our worldwide population of 16-24 year olds could be cut in half, right?

  286.  

    Jane — We’ve already dealt with this nonsense. Don’t waste your time going over it again. Mike’s ignorance is his problem, not yours.

  287.  

    Hi Bock, hope you had a good Christmas and will have a successfull and eventfull New Year.

    Just thought you would be interested to know there has been a song written and released in the US about Andrew ‘AJ’ the link to it is as follows:
    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=436047609

    Just when the ‘Powers’ that be thought that it was and is over and forgotten, well they were Wrong.

    Andrew’s family have just spent their first Christmas without their beloved ‘AJ’. The pain and heart break is still evident.
    Seeing the group of family and friends on Christmas Morning laying tributes to their lost boy……..emotion was spilling from these people who love ‘AJ’, I count myself honoured to have been among them. I wish I had the words to express what I witnessed, but in this instance words fail me, but one thing is for sure its something I will never forget.

    May Peace be with everyone this New Year.

  288.  

    For those of you who hit the link on the above post. I personally found it a little hard to understand the words, however I have managed to get a copy of these, so here you go. It is a little strong but it goes to show how emotive Andrew-James Hanlons slaying is and how people truly feel.

    ‘AJ’

    That dick killed aj, he was unarmed
    didnt do no one, didnt hurt no one,

    that dick killed aj, shot six times dead,
    now he’s gone and theres nothing left,

    they got a call from a crummy witch,
    he was uninvolved, but they didnt give a shit,

    he walked on by, they told him to stop
    he walked on and thats when that pig shot,

    aj’s gone whats goin on, i say
    ” ” ” ”

    chorus

    Tony Gonzalez
    your not a man just a fucking little coward
    with a gun in your hand

    Tony Gonzalez
    your not a man just an angry little coward with a gun in your hand

    aj’s gone, hes dead and gone, so long

  289.  

    I see that the Irish inquest into A.J.’s death has been opened and adjourned today at Dublin County Coroner’s Court. Set to resume on 19th March (RTE News: Cassidy absence adjourns Hanlon inquest). We can only hope that this news (the inquest, not the delay) shakes a conscience or two over in Oregon and maybe someone will do the right thing.

  290.  

    Well a lot of time has passed since Andrew was gunned down on the sleepy streets of Silverton, Oregon.
    Does it make the pain any less…….NO.
    Does it make it any easier …………NO.
    Have we achived justice for AJ……NO.
    Will we ever …………………………NO.

    The Inquest into Andrews death has been and gone here in Dublin. with an apology to the family the Judge instructed the jury to bring in an Open verdict. The jury questioned why they could not bring in another verdict and were told ‘ this is an inquest to determine the cause of death not to determine guilt or innocence’. A sad time for the family when what they needed was closure and some to tell them the killing of their boy Andrew was ‘wrong’.

    During the inquest Dr Marie Cassidy the State Patholigist, stated that ” ‘ANY’ one of the gunshots inflicted on Andrew would have been enough to kill him” and the abdominal shots trajectory was directly up through the body which in her opinion meant AJ was shot while falling OR while he was already on the ground.
    Further she stated while examining Andrew and assessing the entry of the bullets she said the Wounds in his upper arm would imply that Andrew was standing or moving side on to the Gunman in a defensive mode.

    Can you imagine the family sitting listening to this.

    Later, after the inquest Dr.Marie Cassidy went to the family and offered her condolences on the death of Andrew adding that what had gone on was all wrong.

    At the same time the jurors came to Andrew’s Mother and one by one offered her their sympathies and their apologies saying ‘if we had had an option we would have found for Unlawfull Killing’. But their hands were tied;

    Sadly what we did not want to be, will be, Andrew has turned into just another statistic of Police Brutality in the USA..

    And no one gives a damn.

  291.  

    With respect I give a damn. I am also of the opinion that all right thinking People do. The problem is the system. Until we change it there is nothing we can do. I shall always remember Andrew Hanlon although I never met the lad. He rests in peace.

  292.  

    thank you gary, and bock and the countless people all over the world who have given their individual support too~ through bocks’
    continuous efforts here, toward exposing the truth of andrew j. hanlon’s death in silverton, oregon, u.s.a., on the night of june 30th, 2008.
    bock not only gave us permission, but a public forum to validate the facts of a devistating tragedy. this took one hell of a lot of courage for btr to be the first (in the world) to question what happened, after reading the mainstream press coverage~
    for bock to stand up and ask why, while at the same time inviting answers requires some pretty fearless tenacity. and bock is still standing the course.

    on behalf of our struggle to come to terms with this devistating tragedy, we know we will always give a damn, just as we know there will be those of us who decide we will never
    give up, no matter the
    direction a.j.’s legacy will take.
    i often think of the mental anguish issues andrew was going through in the few months before he died, and of the countless youth across the world who go through this same experience. it is so common, and yet this community where he died had (has) no emergency treatment center for the sudden onset of serious mental problems.
    god knows the only help his family was given, (through the county mental health agency)was less than nothing.
    andrew hanlon lived with the spirit and the mischief of an artist
    and he walked with the wisdom and the gift of love.
    gary, i never knew the lad either (during his short earth life) but think of how many of us know him now…
    a.j.’s story is too important to be forgotten.

  293.  

    To clarify our comment,

    ‘No one gives a damn’

    this was in regard to the so called Powers that be.

    It has been stated many time here on Bock and so is on the record how much Andrews Family appreciate the support of friends old and new and this sentiment is still the same.
    Without them the past 10 months would have been even more difficult.

    Its wonderfull to hear Andrews friends are holding a get together in Silverton to Remember our Andrew. Because that is what AJ was ‘OURS’ his family, his friends and everyone who knew him, he was such a warm natured giving boy. He thought little of material posessions but gloried in his interaction with fellow human beings. He always saw the good in people.

    Andrew’s stoty to us will NEVER NEVER NEVER be forgotton, he lives with us each day and goes everywhere with us, he will remain in our hearts till we go to join him.

    And, no matter what people try to say or try to do or what they try to imply , and many have done all these things.

    No one can take away from this family the 20 years we spent with our loving Andrew, through the good times and the bad, through the arguements and the loving. Watching him being born into this sad World that was to take him away all to soon. Watching him take his first steps, his bright shining blue eyes and that wide mischievious grin.
    We loved him and he loved us.

    Should people try to undermine these deep feelings and emotions then we have this to say to them “Look to your self, to your own conscience and your own personal issues, we feel sad and sorry for them”

    So once again we would like to say a warm thank you to all Andrews Friends in Ireland and the USA who have been a support to his family, they will never know just how much heart it has given us to know how many people cared for our beautiful boy.

    Thank you.

  294.  

    i just wanted to let everyone know that aj’s close friends and family have actually arranged a gathering in the town square in silverton. this is where all of us kids hang out, it is down by the river that flows through the town and its a place we all relate especially aj. we will meet to celebrate honor and give respect to a person who has changed our town and our lives. we continue to walk with aj and receive his gifts. its like he’s teaching us. aj was one of three kids that died that year and so we all send our love to them to. we hope they are feeling the love we have and will always have for them.
    ps sorry i repeated this but i think i put it on the wrong place on your site bock. shane

  295.  

    I loved my brother Andrew to bits.
    We were really close, there was only a year and 6 days between us so we were more lyk twins.
    When we were little our Mam used to bring us everywhere in a twin buggy, we did everything together.

    Officer Tony Gonzalez robbed my brother of his young life and he stripped this family of its future with Andrew.

    Since Andrew was killed it has ripped this family apart, no one really knows what we are going through.

    My Mams health has gone steadily down hill since Andrew was killed, she is not the same person.

    When I lost my brother it wasnt all I lost, I lost part of me and now I worry for my Mam too.

    I just wanted people to know how I felt and what we are going though.

    AJ I miss you so bad, I wish you were here.
    I luv you bro.

  296.  

    It was Jane Stone who put a face to the name AJ Hanlon that appeared in the news but briefly. Since that time, the lad Andrew became an individual, lost to his family, but woven tightly into the fabric of this country.

    What a sin and disgrace it is to know this happened in our country! I will ALWAYS associate the town of SILVERTON OREGON with wanton killing and lack of justice, and avoid passing near it or thinking good thoughts about it. Those living there who failed to stand up for the powerless child of Ireland will be judged one day for this sin of ommission.

    Trust that one day AJ will be vindicated and set at peace for his wrongful death. I pray for his soul, and for the beloved family he left behind in Ireland. Please, Mam, rally your spirit and your heart. Andrew’s wish would be that you stay with his siblings to comfort one another. Your laments and cries are raised so loudly that the gates of heaven are shaken on their hinges, and God peers out to see how He may comfort your grieving.

    May peace be with you always.

  297.  

    your so right jane stone has been so great through all this. i have watched her work close with the kids of silverton my whole life and a lot of us have learned a great deal from her. she has embrassed the artistic and creative side of kids in silverton and continues to do so. thanks jane.

  298.  

    “shane” i don’t know you from your blogging
    name, and 24 years of working with my silverton kids means you could be any one of
    many who come to mind, but you each know this: i love every one of you to your bones!
    i had this dream when i was 17, that if i ever “made it” as an artist, i would create a way for other kids to earn their living with a paintbrush in their hand, just as i was doing then. and each of you who has worked with me took that old dream of mine further than i ever could have imagined:
    your original artwork on posters and cards has been sent out to more than 17 million people
    over the years, to the finest museums and stores and galleries worldwide. you’ve painted thank you notes for the white house, all the way to doves for john lennon’s estate, because you cared about your artwork the same as you cared about each other. every one of you were the kind of human beings who either would have been or were, close friends of a.j.’s, because you walk with
    the dignity, decency and spirit of a true artist.
    and then, you took yourselves to another level, when last year on the 1st of july you
    stood for your dear friend a.j., and let the world know that what happened was as wrong as it gets, and that you would not let this go,
    until there were answers. what happened to a.j. is NOT going to happen to one of you again, as long as we never let silverton oregon
    forget that a few “ruthless thugs” (whether they were disguised as “pillars of the town” or a police officer) killed a.j., and that the punishment never did fit the crime… we must remain vigilant toward never letting this ever happen again, not to you, your children or your grandchildren. and this then, is a.j.’s legacy:
    we need to promise a.j. that his spirit and his goodness won’t ever be forgotten and that we won’t let the town of silverton forget: we don’t kill kids here, when they are unarmed and they only need help. we respect our kids because they are incredible human beings and they deserve recognition for their courage.

  299.  

    A warm note of appreciation is sent to those who attended the 21st Birthday Rememberance Mass for Andrew-James Hanlon (AJ) on the 28th of April and after for the gathering of friends and family to honour and remember our Andrew.

    Also

    To those who sent cards,texts, e-mails & Messages bearing such kindness, a heartfelt thank you. Andrew’s Mum recieved messages from as far as India, Australia, Usa and all over Europe.

    It is friends like this from far and wide that have helped us through this difficult time and lifted our spirits.

    It is truly wonderful to know how Andrew touched so many hearts and was so highly thought of.

    To B.J.Hogan, thank you for your words of kindness they express what so many people out there are feeling, and should be feeling, it is a disgrace.

    But one thing is sure our Boy will never be forgotten, we will not allow it.
    Every now and then we will give the people of Silverton a gentle nudge to remind them of how they failed to stand up for justice and the rights of the innocent. How they let a young Irish boy down, let us hope and pray there will be no more innocent lives taken in Silverton.

  300.  

    Bless you, and God keep you all safe.

  301.  

    Im an old friend of A.J’s. Tonight the night of his 21st all of his friends from Dunboyne. the place A.J called home were out having a drink in his memory. It so sad that one of our best friends was not here to celebrate his 21st,,,,,it is devistating the effect that this death has had on a whole town….but even sadder than that is the fact that everyone who has ever met him will ever forget him or ever ever forget him. I remember A.J nearly everyday. I am happy to see that a lot of people are questioning his death, it was unjust,,,,murder to be blunt. in america he was a teenager who liked to drink…have fun and who’s visa ran out,,,,, People have to remember he was a son,,,,,a friend,,,,and mostly a pain in the ass :) :) :) and will never ever be forgotten…..i ask for justice no matter how much my call will be unheard….the police look after their own and its a sad downfall of the “Justice system”. But there are people still living with this tragedy ever single day…..and it’ll never be ok…….YO YO YO BUD “Wats the crack” love always emz xxxxxxx

  302.  

    Society , Society , Society .. these words in my head , I remember after A.J was killed , I was met with so much adversity from people .. from society.. I lost ” friends” people telling me that A.J. was a thief , a burglar,
    illegal immigrant, and a drug abuser. Their anger and hate broke my heart … because they did not understand his beauty and his special gifts .. they turned to the only thing they knew .. FEAR.

    When A.J became ill , he came to my house all the time .. he called me .. confided in me..
    sometimes I feel like I abandon him .. by not answering the phone .. or just sitting in my room when I knew
    he was knocking on the door .. he needed me.. and because of fear .. fear of his illness , fear of something maybe I knew I was to close to .. ( within myself )
    Being different … God .. sometimes I think about all of the beautiful things he would have done ….
    this world needed him …
    Truly .. he was a angel ..
    never forget him ..

  303.  

    Rest in peace AJ. I have some fine memories from you in school! Your ability to moonwalk was one I’ll never forget!
    An old friend from St Pius X..

  304.  

    I am glad to see that A.J is still remembered fondly by those who knew him. I was his landlord for a time here in Ireland and a nicer young man you would find hard to meet.The City Father’s and Police Chief of Silverton should hang their heads in shame for employing the “Thug” who shot A.J. In such a small town they had to know the type of individual that cop was. I believe he went to jail for having sex with an under age girl and only after her mother made a complaint. Shame on you Silverton. Correct me if I am wrong about this. If A.J’s family had the money to launch a lawsuit they would have won their case and I would imagine suitable compensation

    A.J was a very talented young man whose life was cut short by a Silverton police thug. I hope that there are no more like him in that city’s police department.
    Rest in peace A.J. You are sadly missed by all of us who had the pleasure to know you. To A.J’s Mother and family I extend my heartfelt sympathy at this sad time.

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