Comments on: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Blood Transfusions http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions Sun, 21 Mar 2010 09:38:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Bock http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions/comment-page-1#comment-60737 Bock Sun, 30 Nov 2008 14:14:23 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions#comment-60737 This isn't about children being injured in sports, or the way Jehovah's Witnesses organise their lives in general, and therefore you are being dishonest in raising these irrelevant distractions. It's about the possibility of a blood transfusion being necessary and parents attempting to prevent it under any circumstances. It's like this. They're in a hospital where the staff are obliged to do the best for the child according to their professional standards. If they're not happy with that, let them go to some country where the medical staff are willing to compromise their principles and let a child die. Personally, I think they should be arrested and charged with attempted murder. This isn’t about children being injured in sports, or the way Jehovah’s Witnesses organise their lives in general, and therefore you are being dishonest in raising these irrelevant distractions.

It’s about the possibility of a blood transfusion being necessary and parents attempting to prevent it under any circumstances.

It’s like this. They’re in a hospital where the staff are obliged to do the best for the child according to their professional standards. If they’re not happy with that, let them go to some country where the medical staff are willing to compromise their principles and let a child die.

Personally, I think they should be arrested and charged with attempted murder.

]]> By: tom sheepandgoats http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions/comment-page-1#comment-60725 tom sheepandgoats Sun, 30 Nov 2008 12:23:06 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions#comment-60725 There's nothing dishonest about the argument I've made. People are not just one trait. They are a collection of many, and on balance, JWs lifestyle is far "safer" than that of most groups. The parents involved don't want to do nothing. They want to treat their child with the various bloodless techniques available. Perhaps the local hospital feels that's not the best option. Perhaps it would involve transfer to another facility, maybe some distance. Perhaps the situation arose very suddenly, thus constituting an emergency. But bloodless medicine is widely available now, and that is what the parents are seeking. (Of course, I don't know the specifics of this case, but that is how these matters typically play out.) Frankly, proportionately more children die in high school sports than Witness children for lack of blood transfusions. I understand this pushes emotional buttons, but everything ought be kept in context. People livid about the case have taken no interest in the child beforehand, and however this matter is resolved, will take none afterwards. I know the reasoning behind the blood position, I know the bonds of Witness families and quality of their relations. I am not so willing to pronounce judgement from afar on their parenting or beliefs. There’s nothing dishonest about the argument I’ve made. People are not just one trait. They are a collection of many, and on balance, JWs lifestyle is far “safer” than that of most groups.

The parents involved don’t want to do nothing. They want to treat their child with the various bloodless techniques available. Perhaps the local hospital feels that’s not the best option. Perhaps it would involve transfer to another facility, maybe some distance. Perhaps the situation arose very suddenly, thus constituting an emergency. But bloodless medicine is widely available now, and that is what the parents are seeking. (Of course, I don’t know the specifics of this case, but that is how these matters typically play out.)

Frankly, proportionately more children die in high school sports than Witness children for lack of blood transfusions. I understand this pushes emotional buttons, but everything ought be kept in context. People livid about the case have taken no interest in the child beforehand, and however this matter is resolved, will take none afterwards. I know the reasoning behind the blood position, I know the bonds of Witness families and quality of their relations. I am not so willing to pronounce judgement from afar on their parenting or beliefs.

]]> By: stleger norma http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions/comment-page-1#comment-60720 stleger norma Sun, 30 Nov 2008 11:27:43 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions#comment-60720 tom sheepand goats firstly there is a huge difference between "disallowing" and guidance, of which a huge part is supplying children with the appropriate information during their development. most parents, regardless of their religion, start off "disallowing" drugs, smoking, "overdrinking" whatever overdrinking means, because you cannot teach moderation, that has to a choice, however, once a child becomes a teenager and their social net widens, influence of parents retreats to a degree as the influence of their peers and surroundings takes precedent, at that point, the foundations between parent and teenager are tested. many young people completly reject all forms of "disallowing" and indulge in the "forbidden" to a far greater extent than those who have benefitted from a more open and secure childhood, where questions are answered and they are encouraged to form their own opinions based on seeking the information they need on their own. a parent can lay down the law within their own nucleus for a very short time, usually about 14 years, then children begin the journey of finding their own way, when this is not understood and supported, their direction can be severly hampered, and religion and religious rules can only be observed when there is choice and that choice may have to be learnt the hard way, or not. blood transfusions cannot fall in the catagory of a "rule" because it is totally removing educated choices, and they are the right of every individual on this planet. tom sheepand goats firstly there is a huge difference between “disallowing” and guidance, of which a huge part is supplying children with the appropriate information during their development.
most parents, regardless of their religion, start off “disallowing” drugs, smoking, “overdrinking” whatever overdrinking means, because you cannot teach moderation, that has to a choice, however, once a child becomes a teenager and their social net widens, influence of parents retreats to a degree as the influence of their peers and surroundings takes precedent, at that point, the foundations between parent and teenager are tested.
many young people completly reject all forms of “disallowing” and indulge in the “forbidden” to a far greater extent than those who have benefitted from a more open and secure childhood, where questions are answered and they are encouraged to form their own opinions based on seeking the information they need on their own.
a parent can lay down the law within their own nucleus for a very short time, usually about 14 years, then children begin the journey of finding their own way, when this is not understood and supported, their direction can be severly hampered, and religion and religious rules can only be observed when there is choice and that choice may have to be learnt the hard way, or not.
blood transfusions cannot fall in the catagory of a “rule” because it is totally removing educated choices, and they are the right of every individual on this planet.

]]> By: Bock http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions/comment-page-1#comment-60716 Bock Sun, 30 Nov 2008 10:10:02 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions#comment-60716 It's very glib to say that everyone has a right to their beliefs. Do they really? What about the Khmer Rouge? What about the National Socialist party? Would I have the right to believe that some races are sub-human and must be exterminated? And even if I had to right to believe such things, would I have the right to act on my delusion? It doesn't matter what these parents believe. They have no right to endanger their child. It’s very glib to say that everyone has a right to their beliefs.

Do they really? What about the Khmer Rouge? What about the National Socialist party? Would I have the right to believe that some races are sub-human and must be exterminated?

And even if I had to right to believe such things, would I have the right to act on my delusion?

It doesn’t matter what these parents believe. They have no right to endanger their child.

]]> By: kzn http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions/comment-page-1#comment-60710 kzn Sun, 30 Nov 2008 04:04:25 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions#comment-60710 Everyone has a right to their beliefs, perhaps if other religions "believed" more there would have been less child molestation going on. There are other products that can be used instead of using blood products. Perhaps its about time Irish medicine came and joined the current times. Everyone has a right to their beliefs, perhaps if other religions “believed” more there would have been less child molestation going on.

There are other products that can be used instead of using blood products. Perhaps its about time Irish medicine came and joined the current times.

]]> By: Bock http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions/comment-page-1#comment-60707 Bock Sun, 30 Nov 2008 02:09:41 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions#comment-60707 That's a deeply dishonest argument. This post is about endangering a child's life, and has nothing whatever to do with the other things Jehovah's Witnesses believe. That’s a deeply dishonest argument.

This post is about endangering a child’s life, and has nothing whatever to do with the other things Jehovah’s Witnesses believe.

]]> By: tom sheepandgoats http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions/comment-page-1#comment-60705 tom sheepandgoats Sun, 30 Nov 2008 01:19:14 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions#comment-60705 On the other hand, the same Witness thinking that disallows blood transfusions also disallows smoking, overdrinking, drug abuse, even participating in war. Witnesses teach those things to their children as well. Thus for every JW who dies as a result of transfusion beliefs, there have to be thousands who don’t die (compared to the general population) for their other lifestyle beliefs. I’m not sure how you can condemn one without at least acknowledging the other. Proportionately far fewer JWs and their children die from their lifestyles than the average person. Even from a medical standpoint, transfusion therapy is rapidly evolving. It isn't necessarily the slam-dunk you think it is: http://tinyurl.com/6n9lvx Perhaps when they have their day in court, everyone's mind should not be made up in advance. On the other hand, the same Witness thinking that disallows blood transfusions also disallows smoking, overdrinking, drug abuse, even participating in war. Witnesses teach those things to their children as well. Thus for every JW who dies as a result of transfusion beliefs, there have to be thousands who don’t die (compared to the general population) for their other lifestyle beliefs. I’m not sure how you can condemn one without at least acknowledging the other. Proportionately far fewer JWs and their children die from their lifestyles than the average person.

Even from a medical standpoint, transfusion therapy is rapidly evolving. It isn’t necessarily the slam-dunk you think it is:

http://tinyurl.com/6n9lvx

Perhaps when they have their day in court, everyone’s mind should not be made up in advance.

]]> By: Andrew http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions/comment-page-1#comment-60585 Andrew Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:30:16 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions#comment-60585 Powerful essay. Powerful essay.

]]> By: stleger norma http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions/comment-page-1#comment-60454 stleger norma Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:27:28 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions#comment-60454 i don't believe that parents have the right to impose any religious beliefs on their children, and that goes for all religions, i think the spiritual dimension is very personal and should be searched for and investigated by choice. as an adult to put a childs health welfare and life on the line for the ludicrous unsubstantiated beliefs held by adults/parents should be classified as neglect if not downright criminal, and a childs mind is as delicate as their bodies i don’t believe that parents have the right to impose any religious beliefs on their children, and that goes for all religions, i think the spiritual dimension is very personal and should be searched for and investigated by choice. as an adult
to put a childs health welfare and life on the line for the ludicrous unsubstantiated beliefs held by adults/parents should be classified as neglect if not downright criminal, and a childs mind is as delicate as their bodies

]]> By: fred http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions/comment-page-1#comment-60452 fred Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:10:19 +0000 http://bocktherobber.com/2008/11/jehovahs-witnesses-and-blood-transfusions#comment-60452 Maybe they should go back to the congo or wherever they're from ! i'm sure nobody there would object to them denying their child a chance to live !!! Maybe they should go back to the congo or wherever they’re from ! i’m sure nobody there would object to them denying their child a chance to live !!!

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