The Anglo-Irish Ten, Hiding Behind Client Confidentiality

The spin goes on.

Today we’re being told they can’t name the ten secret investors because of client confidentiality.

You see?

Take it slowly, now, so you’ll understand it.

The banks can’t name these people because of their ethical obligations to the clients, and the government is unable to name the ten mystery buyers for the same reasons.

I see.

The banks claim to be bound by obligations to their clients – though clearly they feel no similar obligations to this country, and had little hesitation in dragging us all to the brink of bankruptcy.

Very well.  Let’s play pretend for a minute.  I’m a bank and you’re a rich punter.

Let’s call you Filthy Richie.

Me: Look, Richie, I want you to buy shares in me.

You: Why the fuck should I?  I have no collateral.

Me: No bother.  You’ll be digging me out of a hole, so I’ll lend you the money and you can use the shares in me as security for three-quarters of the loan.

You: But the shares are fucking worthless, and anyway I’d be using part of you to guarantee another part of you.  It makes no sense.

Me: I’ll still take shares in me as security. Richie, you’re in the clear.

You: What about the other quarter of the money I’ll owe you?

Me: You’ll never have to pay it.

You: Why not?

Me: I can’t chase you for it.  There’s a big mistake in the deal my people drew up.  Their fault.  How stupid of them.

Now.  Would some bright spark please explain how that would make you a client in any sense the civilised world understands, and how you would be entitled to client confidentiality.

Thanks.

____________________

Elsewhere:

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Irish Times

46 thoughts on “The Anglo-Irish Ten, Hiding Behind Client Confidentiality

  1. Welcome to the real Irish business module, it’s wide spread.
    But there are those who are begining to look over their shoulder now, plus of course the rise in activity in and around the many private airfields that dot the country side.
    Eh…. cigar anyone?

  2. Our potato republic could teach the banana republics a thing or three dont you think. Pity we dont get the sunshine. Still the pints are good. Anyone lend me some money?

  3. I can understand the client confidentiality bit in relation to the borrowing aspect but when they bought the shares surely that could brought into the open and then we’d know.

  4. When/if these guys names come out surely they will be fucked alltogether. In addittion to any crimanal charges brought against them every poor punter that lost a fortune when Anglo’s shares plumeted will be entitled to sue the pants of these cowboys. Am I not right.

  5. Ever since de Valera came back from USA with his pockets full of cash, he and his sucessors (FF) have been shown to be rotten. Of the three sides in the triangle of Irish moral life, FF, The Church and the GAA, two have been shown to be vile. Now we’re learning about FF! Up the Potato Republic.

  6. Bock

    Even if it were not criminal the objective of this move was to portray Anglo’s shares as healthy. This was at best a deliberate attempt to mislead fellow investors. It worked and many shareholders minds were set at ease by the scam. If I were one such shareholder I would be contacting my solicitor and licking my lips in anticipation of those 10 fat juicy names.

  7. Its Fraud which ever way you look at it..
    The reason for this is the definition of fraud is:

    Deception (not disclosing the loans,or conveniantly not reading part of a report with prior knowledge of the deal) in order to make financial Gain (off of the tax payers back)

    Bock feel free to delete this if it is in anyway legally suspect..

  8. why won’t the Scumday World’s Paul Williams name the dasterdly 10?,’cause he’s naming every 2-bob thief in inner-city Dublin

  9. “It’s not certain that this was in any way criminal..”

    A classic Irish line at a time of crisis!

    This from the Slugger site would seem to sum up the matter succintly;

    5.“The whole affair, the inspectors concluded, had been characterised by a cynical disregard for laws and regulations, a cavalier misuse of company money, and a contempt for truth and common honesty…..

    The scheme involved an effort to support Guinness’s stock price by buying shares to give Guinness’s stock-and-cash offer for Distillers a better chance of bettering a rival offer from the Argyll Group P.L.C., In sentencing Mr. Saunders today, the judge told him he had been guilty of ‘’dishonesty on a massive scale” in authorizing illegal payments to those who had participated in the scheme. ‘’I am quite satisfied, as the jury by their verdicts have shown, that you were at the center of the dishonest conduct that occurred,” Justice Denis Henry said.”

    Both the manipulation of a company’s stock price and a company providing financial assistance for the purchase of its shares are illegal in Britain.

    That was Gunness, this is Anglo …sound familiar??? ”

    Unless it is the case that the irish Courts are also open to a bit of “persuasion” these guys will be named and brought to Court.

  10. Shay — Drop the smart-arse comments please. Before you get too carried away with superiority, I want you to be clear about something: this site is subject to the same libel laws as any other publication, and I will run it as I see fit, not as you decide.

  11. Johhnypiles

    Please dont tell me you’re one of these people who think that white collar crime and corruption some how gets Dublin and Limerick’s scumbag gangsters off the hook.

  12. You’ve got it Bock.

    Not all of the €300m was used to buy the shares. If the shares secured 75% of the €300m they were only worth €225m.

    What was the othe €75m for. Here’s a theory, I have no proof. The €75m was not distributed evenly. The Anglo Ten all owed money to Anglo. But different amounts each.

    So AT1 got €15m to pay off his Anglo debt which was secured on personal property of some kind.

    AT2 got €5m etc etc until the €75m was used up.

    The Anglo Ten then had non-recourse loans in place of secured loans. Leaving tham in a much better position and Anglo (now the Citizen) in amuch worse position.

    I don’t think the Greens can hold out forever on this one.

  13. come out come out whoever you are!!! any bets being taken that one of the fianna failures is amongst the 10?

  14. Ted Leddy
    I make no comparison between the street gangsters and the thieving bankers,there’s not a lot of differance between either,merely the silence of our ‘chief fearless crime reporter'{his claim},is it fear of ultimatly exposing those with a ‘brief’,our because he’s a 2-bob rag writer?…..and please enlighten me,who are ‘one of those people’?

  15. According to the News Fianna Fail are consulting with the Attorney General to see if there is any way in which the names of the Anglo Ten can be disclosed.

    I’ll sleep better knowing that.

    Unforotunately I’ll probaly wake up in a cold sweat realising that they are getting advice from the Attorney General for reasons not to disclose the names of the Anglo Ten.

  16. Theory II

    The Anglo Ten used the €75m to pay off debts with other banks (who had security) and effectively swapped that secured lending for unsecured lending with Anglo.

    Just a theory.

  17. For sure, there are FF members in the so called ten, probably former Taoisigh and doubtless none of all ten names will be new to anyone when they are revealed.
    High flyers my bollix.

  18. simple soloution. arrest them all, charge them with fraud, bring them before the district court where they will be named by the newspapers. problem solved.

  19. it might possibly effect legal procedures says FF.
    Hands up anyone who believes any one will ever be questioned,let alone charged.
    (is it effect or affect I always get them mixed up)

  20. Lifted directly from RTE’s website………..

    “Businessman Ulick McEvaddy has described the ten members of the so called Golden Circle as heroes.”

    Extremely wealthy man ……………….is Ulick McEvaddy !!!!!!!!!!

  21. great post bock.
    off topic this one. but I was in the library yesterday and logged in to bocks site and up popped this , sexually explicit material banned, I got a shock as I thought I had mistakenly logged on to the wrong site and woukd be taken out in handcuffs. I asked lady behind counter and she explained the situation to me, now you use colourful language here but I have never seen sexually explicit material here, are we still in the dark ages, its a fucking joke

  22. Johnnypiles

    “One of those people” are the lazy minded left who imply that because we have corrupt bankers and politicians we should for some reason be less determined, or less aggressive in hunting down conventional gangsters. I hate all criminals corporate or gang. I want to see them all taken down. You just know the gang leaders in Dublin and Limerick are loving these banking scandals. You can almost here them, businessmen are corrupt, politicians are crooked, they take what they want so why cant we. As if this banking scandal gets them off the hook for Antony Campbell or Shane Geoghegan. We should not reinforce this myth of the gangster as the “working class hero” by making this point that white collar crime somehow cancels out conventional criminality.

  23. the big story they’re scared might get out?,has Anglo been the bank that has ‘washed’ FF’s dirty money for years?,can you imagine what an investigation by the fraud squad may turn up?…..could make Mahon look like a tea-party

  24. and I agree with that point completely Ted Leddy,except that the street gangsters brain-power wouldn’t extend to even be aware of white-collar criminal class{except for when selling them coke},also,I don’t know what class of person,except their own circle,would class the gangsters as ‘working class heroes’,and if we lived in a perfect utopian society,justice for all etc. etc.,the gangsters would still be with us,…alas,it’s in the rearing,they’re here forever

  25. Bock, dead right. A little fat man dressed in a robe told me over a pint that ‘delusion is the refusal to learn anything that might threaten you. In the good times we think we are happy but we are deluded – we dont want to know about things that might upset our status quo…..’ Why dont we re-write the anthem – fuck all this soldier kill the bastards nonsense and replace it with a chant…. ‘lets all stop being deluded, lets all stop being deluded, lets all stop being deluded…’

  26. bock i thought you had taken a well earned break form slacktivism, what has brought you back so soon, sounds like an addiction

  27. what i find most disturbing about the carry on with the banks is that no one acted as a whistleblower. surely someone must have thought, this is not right.

  28. Aye. A man in a suit told me over a pint I shouldnt worry too much. Things will change when the citizens tire enough of the outlaws to appoint a decent sherriff and judge and start hanging the bastards. Need the sherriff and judge – any volunteers. I have some timber and a bit of old rope so I think I should be………..

  29. Unless the Famous 5 (x 2) are directors of Anglo their identity is probably irrelevant to the shareholders.

    The relevant questions relate to whether the bank and / or the directors misled the shareholders in relation to these loans.

    If Anglos’s annual reports and accounts are deceptive then surely the shareholders must act by seeking an investigation by the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation and ODCE.

    As: – If the annual reports and accounts are deceptive then this could consitute breaches of company law and criminal law (The Criminal Justice Theft & Fraud Offences Act 2001 – makes provisions for false and deceptive accounting. Penalties for breaches allow for prison sentences)

    In the interim – surely the shareholders could seek an order to FREEZE the assets of the directors (including their foreign assets).

    BTW – does anybody know if the Anglo and PWC reports include Anglos US operations?

  30. The Country is corrupt and a handful of people would put the mafia to shame . They are safe in their nests and well cushioned to ride out this recession while the rest of us are left to suffer in pain and indeed great pain . The Govt should be expelled immediately and the people should stand together to form a more transparent and honest Govt who will make every effort to ensure that this small island can become a prosperous and happy place to live WITH NO MORE MISERY OR FAIRYTALE STORIES !

  31. BJJ,

    Yes, Section 10

    The Criminal Justice Theft & Fraud Offences Act 2001

    “10.—(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he or she dishonestly, with the intention of making a gain for himself or herself or another, or of causing loss to another—

    (a) destroys, defaces, conceals or falsifies any account or any document made or required for any accounting purpose,”

    Its fairly plain and very broad.

    I keep asking why the Fraud Squad have not made arrests.

    There is no need to wait on the Director of Corporate Law Enforcement to concluded his investigations. I must say he has my sympathy being used as a football by Fianna Fail. The man is absolutly obliged to say nothing. He cannot respond to the lies that Fianna Fail put out about his role. He has one purpose and one puirpose only. There’s a hint in the job title “Corporate Law Enforcement”.

    Yes it is true that should he deem it appropriate he MAY call in the Fraud Squad. But that is not his purpose.

    Fianna Fail are abusing the Office of the Director to further thier desire to hide the truth.

    There is nothing to stop the Garda Commissioner instructing the Fraud Squad to make arrests. There is every reason for him to do so.

  32. Beat me to it Mr Magoo,

    No need to wait for the Soldiers of Destiny then.

    If anybody thinks they have lost money on this circus they should get together and seek an immediate injunction in the High Court to stop the Directors of Anglo (past & present) from disposing of any assets and from moving assets outside the jurisdiction.

    They should do this with reference to Section 10 of The Criminal Justice Theft & Fraud Offences Act 2001. They have suffered loss by fraud.

  33. Yeah,

    Saw that Mr Magoo. I did mention previously just WTF was this guy doing with his passport.

    Are The Soldiers of Destiny deliberately allowing time for these people to leave the jurisdiction?

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