Roy Collins Murder

 Posted by on April 14, 2009  Add comments
Apr 142009
 

Roy Collins was shot dead in this town last week for one reason only: he was related to somebody who gave evidence against a criminal four years ago.

He was murdered in order to send out a message to the entire country: don’t fuck with us.

This message was not just aimed at the average citizen who might have witnessed a crime, though it will certainly deter people from giving evidence in future.  But it’s also aimed at the police: it tells them this gang are not afraid of them, and will kill anyone, with no compunction.  The criminals know where the police live, where their children attend school and where their spouses work.  Don’t underestimate this.  Police are only human.

The murder of Roy Collins was a direct challenge to the authority of this State, and in response to it, we had government ministers announcing cosmetic legislative changes.  Long after the murder of Shane Geoghegan, they still haven’t managed to get the covert surveillance laws on the books.

Unfortunately, the government seem to be misjudging the organised crime threat as badly as they misjudged the state of the economy.

  78 Responses to “Roy Collins Murder”

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  1.  

    Horrible, horrible thing, and may the man Rest in Peace.

    What I find odd is how the police immediately raided 30+ houses after the murder.
    This means that they already know where these fuckers are living and hanging out.

    Why aren’t they doing these raids 5 times a day? Surely that would go a long way towards keeping the scum too busy to organise heinous crimes like this. It’s not too hard either – you need 3 big fellas and a sledgehammer,so say you do 5 houses at a time that’s 15 in total, I’m sure in Limerick they have 15 strong cops.

    You bust the door down,on suspicion of drugs/guns/etc, drag everyone out and then trash the house looking for “evidence”. Then you come back tomorrow and do it again. Sure you might get into a bit of trouble at first but, making an omelette and all that.

    But then again, if they did this, the gardai would not be able to whinge and whine about how their “hands are tied”. If they had any interest in having the power to actually do something about the problem, they would march on the Dail until they got the powers they needed. But they won’t. and they never will, because actually they don’t give a damn. I’ve known a fair few cops and I can honestly say that I can count on the fingers of one hand the ones who are actually interested in fixing the problems we face with crime in our society. The rest are in it for the pension, plain and simple.

    As regards the cops being afraid because the scum know where they and their families live, work, etc, it’s precisely these sorts of people we do not need in the force. They have too much to lose and should be given desk jobs or laid off.
    The people doing the raiding and the armed patrols should be young men/women with nothing to lose, not family.

    Speaking of armed patrols, I wonder where Roy Collin’s so called police protection was at the time he was murdered?

    [end of rant]

  2.  

    What Steve seems to be looking for is a Garda force of John Rambos.

    Who, in reality, has “nothing to lose”?

    The Gardai raided these houses most likely because they were acting on information that would lead them to the killer, and thus had cause to carry out the searches.
    If they were to go about doing this day after day (effective and enjoyable to watch as it would be) you would be doing it without cause and these scum would have no problem proving to a judge that they were being harrassed by gardai.

    Besides, if raids became daily, they would simply change the houses they are using meaning ongoing Garda surveillance operations on those houses would be made redundant. Also, cases which will result in long sentences and which take months of surveillance to build would collapse.

    As tragic as the Geoghegan murder was, this is worse because there was no case of mistaken identity. An innocent father was targeted and murdered.

    To say that doesn’t affect gardai in the same way it affects morally superior individuals such as Steve is just disingenuous. I’m not saying they are Gardai who are there for the security and pension but it’s not fair to tar them all with the same brush. The fact is their hands are tied in a lot of cases and as Bock says they too are human and subject to the same fears as you or me.

  3.  

    I understand Steve’s frustration, but the Hoge makes a good point. It would only end up being used against the Guards in court. There’s also a problem in letting the police force act like thugs and criminals in order to catch thugs and criminals. If they’d do it for a good reason, they’d do it for a bad one.

    The question remains. How can we act inside the law to catch those who act outside of it?

  4.  

    From my point of view there are only two ways we can deal with these scum, exterminate or intern them, extermination is not an option, so, we are left with internment.
    Intern the entire families, men, women and children, for they only breed more of the same, seperate the children from the parents, and, attempt to re-educate them as civilised members of society,for society owes it to the children to give them a chance in life, the parents should be made to work to earn the privilige of contact with their children on a supervised basis, any attempt by them to influence their children back to their scumbag ways, should mean loss of access to their children.
    Draconian?, yes, but has anyone got a better idea?.

  5.  

    While these scum are thugs and criminals, they are, more importantly subversive. We have laws in this country to deal with subversive organisations. Why not make these scum subject to these laws as the regular criminal law code doesn’t seem to harsh enough to deal with their behaviour. Anyone involved in organised crime should be subject to the laws. The trials are without juries, so no intimidation. Mobile phones should be inopperable in jail, their conversations with visitors should be recorded and written communication censored. No apologies, and fuck the do gooders.

  6.  

    The Cops have an intelligence problem, they are not only rumbled all the time on the Radio Gaga but their own surveillance is impossible to run in such small areas.

    Everyone knows everyone else’s business.

    If the cops were properly resourced for surveillance then they might have a chance.

    The witness protection in this country’s a joke. The law allowing the cops to run RICO or sting operations is sketchy at best.

    The judiciary are so out of touch with reality as to be shameful to the country as a whole.

    It’s no wonder the crim’s are running the show.

    Introduce proper RICO statutes, allow the cops to run sting operations, allow anonymous jurors from outside the accused’s domain are three simple things that could be done to bang these feckers up.

  7.  

    [Long post warning]
    The Hoge, I hear what you are saying and although I hate to rise to your flame bait jab about me being morally superior (that’s your label, not mine, OK?) I will address your points .

    first by “nothing to lose” I mean people who are not from Limerick, have not ties to the City or County, and have no spouses/children to take care of. You can’t intimidate people like that as easy as a guy who has kids.

    “The Gardai raided these houses most likely because they were acting on information that would lead them to the killer, and thus had cause to carry out the searches” – the Gardai already have cause to carry out searches of these houses. They know what the people living in these houses are up to day in day out, and their business is certainly not legal. They have ample cause to raid these houses and search them. No need to behave like thugs and criminals. I am not suggesting that.
    But you know what, the judges are supposed to be on the same side as the cops and as far as harassment goes, look how much the English police get away with. By making excuses like the one about harassment, we’re just giving free reign to the scum to continue bullying the state. As I alluded to earlier, you cannot make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

    “Besides, if raids became daily, they would simply change the houses they are using meaning ongoing Garda surveillance operations on those houses would be made redundant”– good point, but what are they doing with the existing surveillance? Nothing. So there’s nothing to be lost. These communities are not big, if someone moves house you know about it.

    “To say that doesn’t affect gardai in the same way it affects morally superior individuals such as Steve is just disingenuous. I’m not saying they are Gardai who are there for the security and pension but it’s not fair to tar them all with the same brush.”
    -I never said that it didn’t affect the Gardai in the same way. what I said was that Gardai who are affected like this shouldn’t be out there on the streets. They can’t do their job if they are in fear of reprisal.
    And at the risk of sounding like an ignoramus, I think it is fair at this stage to start tarring all of this country’s police force with the same brush. Not individuals, but the force itself. An Garda Siochana. Guardians of the Peace. Which they have thus far failed miserably to do. They are not there to solve crimes, they are there to prevent them from happening in the first place.

  8.  

    Internment doesn’t work in Ireland. Just think how long it’d be before the Media, the songwriters and the dogooders would turn Public sentiment in their favour. The poor boys “Behind the Wire” mentality all over again. The Gardai have enough Laws and if I hear the word “Resources” again I’ll scream!

  9.  

    Annihilation not rehabilitation. Introduce the death penalty and watch these type of crimes fall faster then a seventeen year olds knickers on Debs night.

  10.  

    Steve, apologies for the “morally superior” comment, a poor attempt at humour and not fair of me.

    In fairness I know what you’re saying about bringing in young gardai from outside of Limerick with no spouses etc. but they’ve already done that by bringing the ERU here (most of whom are not from Limerick and don’t have families here) but police work is more than having a fearless armed force on the streets.

    Catching out people who have it in their genes to avoid capture requires a knowledge of what and who you are dealing with, knowledge of the history behind certain conflicts, a network of informants who are willing to risk their lives by feeding you information etc. This is the kind of thing that can only be built up over years by a Garda who can build up a rapport with the community he/she is meant to be protecting.

    I stand by my point on not having daily raids. The scent would dry up very quickly on where the illegal activity is taking place as the gangs switched locations (possibly on numerous occasions before settling on a new base). As frustrating as it must be for a Garda to allow the scum of the earth carry on with illegal activity under their nose, they know that restraint and patience will lead to a much bigger end-prize. Why raid a house today for the sake of a few nine bars that will land a gormless kid with a few months in prison when you could raid the same house in a few months and seize a much larger consignment of dangerous drugs or weapons and nail some real criminals in the process?

    I’m not an expert by any stretch of the imagination but I don’t think it’s outrageous to presume that these are the reasons doors aren’t being broken in every morning and evening. Just because we don’t see the end-product of surveillance instantly doesn’t mean nothing is being done with it. Securing a big conviction is a long pain-staking exercise that is, in fairness, made more difficult by the legal constraints within which the gardai work. A lot of cases are pending (I can think of two major ones in particular that are coming up in weeks to come) that have been built using information gathered using garda surveillance.

    While it may not appear in court (for fear of putting informants lives in danger), that information is nonetheless vital to getting convictions.

    Perhaps I am being a little naive but I don’t think it’s fair to presume apathy amongst gardai is the main stumbling block on the route to securing the long-term high profile convictions of people the world and its mother knows are behind these evil acts.

    I would remain hopeful that legislation allowing cases to be based mainly on covert surveillance without witness statements will improve the situation. If it comes through on time to prevent another horrific day for another family is a question of politics.

  11.  

    I would remain hopeful that legislation allowing cases to be based mainly on covert surveillance without witness statements will improve the situation.

    That and non-jury courts – the special criminal court is the only place for trials to be heard. I really don’t like to even consider how it would feel to suddenly find yourself a juror on one of these cases, no matter where you came from. Terrifying isn’t the half of it. It would have to cloud your judgment.

    Mind you, I think families of judges would be (and probably already are) in a very difficult position.

    Bad and all as these times are from an economic point of view, this is a much, much bigger threat to our society. Somehow it has to be dealt with even if that means extraordinary measures.

  12.  

    [long post alert, sorry!]
    Hoge,

    fair enough, I should have had my sarcasm detector tuned on :)

    Your arguments are certainly valid and in many ways I wish I could agree 100% with you, that the police really were on our side and really were trying to do something about the problem.

    But I just can’t. Based on what has been going on since I’ve lived in Limerick (about 8 years) and from my own personal experiences with the police here I am convinced that they just don’t have the real will and drive to solve the problem.

    I’ll give you some examples. about 3 years ago I was on my way home from work and passing the park when I heard someone screaming from one of the Mallow street apartments. For a full 10 minutes they roared how they were going to kill everyone. Loads of people passing by heard this and walked on. I rang Henry Street to report that someone was threatening to kill people. “Oh, you’ll need to call Roxboro, that area is not ours” they said. What the frak?
    So I called Roxboro, and explained the situation to them. 30 minutes later, a squad card drove past the park. It didn’t even stop. Great work there.

    3 weeks ago, my wife was walking through Garryowen to pick up our son from school. some feral creature (it was a girl) attacked her and pelted her with stones after following her up from Garryowen to the school there beside the Cathedral, threated to kill her, burn our house down, fuck off you foreigner, etc (my wife is not Irish). Leaving aside the fact that about 50 people outside the school stood there and watched this happening without even asking if she was OK, we went to the police. I demanded that they take my wife’s statement. They declined. They drove us around Garryowen to try to find the little c*nt and as we drove on, and my wife described the attacker, I could see the two cops looking at each other and nodding. they knew who this little fucktard was. When we got back to the police station, believe it or not, there were two more women in there that had just been attacked by the same little bitch. “There’s really nothing we can do, she’s a juvenile. But we’ll follow it up.” Ha Ha, 3 weeks on and they have not rang us back. I know for a fact that they have done nothing because the same little monster is still prowling Garryowen hassling people. so even despite their half-assed assurances that they would call social services (the thing should be in school) and that they would see to it that at the very least, it’s parents were prosecuted (since they are legally responsible for the actions of a minor) they did bugger all. Apparently being related to some of the scum under discussion here makes her untouchable.

    These are just a couple of my experiences. From 8 dealings with the police in the last 8 years (no I am not scum, I don’t look for trouble I just seem to notice it where other people ignore it) I have had 1 “result”. And that was a simple “arrest the drunk guy who is beating people”. And it took 10 cops to do it. And of course the serial wife and childbeater in question was out the following day and never prosecuted. Even though he assaulted several gardai, let alone his own family.

    I could go on but I think you see my point.

    Capone was nailed for tax fraud, not for any of his other criminal activities. They should not let these people away with anything. That’s the point. They should be arresting and throwing in jail the gombeen with the nine spot or whatever they call it, and fuck it, when he gets out and goes over to his mate’s for a spliff, arrest him again and fuck him in jail again. At least then I might not feel so bad about paying for the little asshole’s stay in prison.

    If and when the cops rise up and take the powers they need, I will give them my full support.
    If your hands are tied, and you want them to be free, then you do whatever you have to do to break your shackles.

  13.  

    Bock, would I be right in thinking that there is some kind of link between this and other serious incidents lately in Limerick?

    Whenever I’ve been there, I’ve never picked up on anything untoward.

    Forgive my ignorance on this, especially if I have missed previous posts on the subject.

  14.  

    It’s the same bunch of people. They’re a very violent family with Limerick connections who arrived from London not that long ago and intermarried with a vaguely delinquent (though not too bad) Traveller family.

  15.  

    if you think back this is how it all started,back in the early 80s they abolished corporal punishment in the schools,that started the ball rolling with you cant touch me mentality,then a year or two after that the word got out,get pregnant,spit out a baby and zoom your pushed up the housing list and spit out a second one and your set for life with a 3 or 4 bedroom house for a pittance every week,so now the kids born in the early 80s are the same little fuckers who never saw a bit of discipline in their lives and think they are above the law.enough is enough,how many more roy collins has there to be before we see these evil scumbags locked away,bring back capital punishment,life for a life.and as for the do gooder brigade,ye are as guilty as the cunts doing this,poor johnny had a hard life,,ah fuckoff and get a reality check,poor johnny uses pricks like the do gooder brigade to walk away scot free.my thoughts and prayers are with roy collins family tonight

  16.  

    Bock, I’ll email you with a question.

  17.  

    I must say, the standard of contribution to the comments has become a good deal more considered in recent times, with one or two obvious exceptions.

  18.  

    Rest in peace
    My heart is with Roy’s friends and families..

    This can’t go on. How many more people more die before these gangs are behind bars for good.

    I agree with Bock, this tragic murder, sends a message and it ain’t good.

  19.  

    As a semi related aside, the ERU were at the Munster V Leinster match last week.

    I shit you not.

    Caps, bright jackets with ERU all over them… about twelve of them were standing having a fag and a laugh while watching the match down in the north west corner.

  20.  

    a tango squad is needed in limerick, like they had for the general in dublin.

    I just watched ray collins father on prime time.

    Limerick needs to be cleaned up. 24 hr survelliance on all scumbags and prison reform.

    anybody who does drugs has blood on their hands for these killings. drug users pay these murderers wages.

  21.  

    I am assuming here that most of these people don’t have “regular” jobs, pay taxes etc, therefore i have always wondered why CAB isn’t all over them all the time, looking for reciepts and the means by which they pay for everything, from clothes to food to cars etc.
    As many of them may have criminal records, why are’nt they stopped searched questioned all day everyday, is this a police resource issue ?
    Steve; the problem which exists now must have began at some point with your own example, as juveniles got away without prosecution of any kind, it fed their power belief that they could, what happened to you and your family is beyond unacceptable, might i suggest you keep at it by putting it all in writing and sending it to the superintendent in limerick the commisioner in Dublin, your local representative and the Minister of Justice.
    A particularly appalling incident, which i won’t get into here, happened to me and my family, it was only with total persistence and putting everything in writing that I eventually found security, now granted I was dealing with people who did not want to be drawn into the public arena.
    The people who are imposing these crime waves in Limerick don’t seem to care about any kind of loss, too entrenched in their own worlds, but even they have something to lose, the judiciary need to figure out what.
    How difficult can it be to keep drugs and mobile phones out of prison ?
    The UK government are presently considering two radical moves, firstly withdrawing social welfare payments from people with alchohol/drug problems unless they can prove they are recieving treatment, also 3 criminal convictions will deprive reciepients of free legal aid and social welfare payments.

  22.  

    Bock,

    [longer than I thought but the Prime Time evidence is worth while]

    “Unfortunately, the government seem to be misjudging the organised crime threat as badly as they misjudged the state of the economy.”

    Off topic but,

    To the,

    Ministry for Justice Equality and Law Reform (organised crime)

    Ministry for Finance (a complete failure to manage the treasury and an abject failure to regulate the financial system)

    You can add,

    The Ministry for Health and Children
    The Ministry for Transport
    The Ministry for Communications Energy and Natural Resources

    And others.

    With regard to yet another organised crime murder it seems that the Ministry for Justice does not even have a Minister.

    Just watched Prime Time and the Minister for Justice was not interviewed. It was no less than wee willie o’dea. Now, fair enough he is the ranking Minister for Limerick. But I wasn’t aware that the Constitution provided for a “Minister for Limerick”.

    Where was the Minister for Justice? Will he speak tomorrow, the next day?

    Are they hoping that something else will occupy the headlines, and the Minister for Justice won’t have to come forward and beg the forgiveness of the people of Limerick for the continued failure of his ministry?

    So,

    Miriam asks wee willie “Will this change anything?”

    wee willie

    “Well I think it will, in fact I think the Shane Geoghegan murder was probably the trigger…”

    “THE TRIGGER”? , what an arse.

    wee willie

    “…combating gangland type crime…”

    Where is this “Gangland” is it the 33 county of this glorious Republic.

    No wee willie, it’s called Organised Crime. There is no place called gangland.

    wee willie

    “…the Government have a de de de THE SYSTEM as it were has to find some other way to put those people particularly the people behind the front people PUT THEM AWAY…”

    wee willie

    “..well anybody who’d just watched that film would…”

    So wee willie JUST WATCHED THAT FILM.

    He wants to put the people behind the “front people” away.

    Wee willie has a short memory. They were ALREADY PUT AWAY but your Minister for Justice still allows mobile phones in prisons. (Roy Collins’s father just said that the order (the phone call) came from prison.)

    The people of Limerick should have no shame that this happened in their City. It is not the fault of the City or its people.

    Those who voted for the talking arse that is wee willie should hang their heads.

  23.  

    Most of these people?

    None of them pay taxes or contribute in any way to the society that supports them. As a consequence of their activities, most decent people have moved away from the places they live in, and nowadays, none of their neighbours feel the need to contribute either.

    We’re talking about a new social class here, people. Much worse than the mendicant class. Now we’re talking about the parasite class.

  24.  

    Of course it isn’t a Limerick issue. It’s a national problem, compounded by an idiot government, but who’s surprised? It keeps the TV cameras away from Dublin and away from the government. Send out Willie the Fool instead.

    I’ll say this again: our democracy is under threat from criminals, and the idiots who try to pin it on Limerick are missing the point. If they continue to miss the point, it will soon be too late for the entire country.

  25.  

    what does it take to finally make our government say enough and put a stranglehold on these gangs through their assets or change the law so they get life for their crimes.

  26.  

    i think that u should know that the family of the dundens are not travellers there mother was mc carty know i think her granmother was a traveller but i truthfully say that there father wasint. but i do know that he is the devil and he sons is as well he i dont think i should say anymore only thay came back from england because they were bannished. Thay should be sent back to were thay were born. and we should stand together and run dim out

  27.  

    Ann – Tell us what you know.

  28.  

    Bock,

    [From a previous post]

    Who knows what to do when they go feral?

    There are several suggestions on the post. I will paraphrase, apologies if I get it wrong.

    Steve…..”Continuous harassment”

    The Hoge…I think you are correct. Can’t tar all Garda with the pension brush.

    “As tragic as the Geoghegan murder was, this is worse because there was no case of mistaken identity. An innocent father was targeted and murdered.”

    I just had a horrible thought. They mistook Shane Geoghegan for Roy Collins and the boss told them to go out again, or suffer the consequences.

    C’est …”The question remains. How can we act inside the law to catch those who act outside of it?”

    Change the law? Change the lawmakers? Don’t vote for a talking arse like wee willie.

    Huron……”Introduce proper RICO statutes, allow the cops to run sting operations, allow anonymous jurors from outside the accused’s domain are three simple things that could be done to bang these feckers up.”

    I think this is the way. I have one difficulty and it is the party of talking arses that is Fianna Fail.

    Proper RICO would require a Constitutional amendment.

    I’m all for it.

    Then maybe it can also be used against those who engage in bankruptcy or securities fraud,
    obstruction of justice, slavery, racketeering, money laundering, commission of murder-for-hire.

    But Fianna Fail don’t want that, they are to exposed and they love the limelight where they can act like they are going to do something about this or that, rather than establishing law which leaves their talking arse parish pump politics out of the equation.

    All hail wee willie the talking arse.

    A true trigger for change.

  29.  

    ann,

    If you are real, take care of yourself.

  30.  

    Bock,

    I agree it is a national issue and if it is not dealt with our very democracy is at stake.

    While giving no quarter for the other parties I fear Fianna Fail using organised crime as a vehicle for their own ends.

    Surveil who? (Bruce Arnold, Geraldine Kennedy and Vincent Browne) Intern who? (Anybody who disagrees with Fianna Fail).

    However, if the feral are not captured and caged the population will take the law into its own hands out of necessity. Then democracy is lost.

  31.  

    the idiots who try to pin it on Limerick are missing the point

    Too right. The media is enthralled by the situation in Limerick (and have plenty to write about for sure) but there are people like this in every town in Ireland.

    Maybe there have not been many headline making incidents in the way that there has been in Limerick and Dublin, but it’s honestly only a matter of time and the smug people who think it’s confined to some place well away from them are fooling themselves big time.

    This is a trivial thing, but I had a car stolen a while back. It was gone for 2 months or so then turned up about 30 miles away in a car park, where it may have been sitting for an unknown length of time.

    A car fitting the description had been used in a couple of quite serious and unpleasant crimes some weeks after it was taken. I went to the station to identify items found in it as mine or not.

    When I looked at it I thought it was unlikely that my car was the one they were looking for, I figured whoever took it had almost certainly abandoned it early on – because when they took it there was a chicken sandwich on the back seat, when it came back the stink was unreal and the sandwich had grown into a rampant green and brown fuzz that half covered the inside of the car.

    Surely if they’d had it for any length of time they’d have tossed the stinking sandwich out the window?

    The guard looked at me with a sort of pity and as though speaking to a simpleton said “You know, these people don’t really think or act in a way most people could begin to understand.”

    It was my car as it turned out, stinking sandwich and all, that had been involved.

    The thing is the people involved don’t live far from me at all. I’d probably passed them hundreds of times and thought nothing of them (even if recognising them as not exactly people with whom I’d enjoy a pleasant evening out). They are everywhere, but until it reaches a critical point, most people will not see the threat they pose. And then it’s become intractable.

  32.  

    st.leger

    “..what happened to you and your family is beyond unacceptable..”

    I read Steve again. I didn’t see that. Perhaps I’m missing something that you & Steve know privately. In which case it’s none of my business.

  33.  

    Katherine,

    Is the critical point 500,000 unemployed with a bankrupt state and politic?

  34.  

    a tango squad is needed in limerick, like they had for the general in Dublin.

    Tango did not sort out the General. As I recall it was a 357 Magnum.

  35.  

    Gary,

    As I asked on a previous.

    “What sort of a dog are you?

    Do you bite your enemies or your friends?”

  36.  

    How about keeping it relevant instead of picking fights with other commenters?

  37.  

    Bock,

    My observation was entirely relevant.

    Many have used words here.

    Would you disrespect that by allowing one use eight and think it clever without challenge.

    Would you dismiss the thoughts of all for this?

    “As I recall it was a 357 Magnum”

  38.  

    Abbott,

    what part of what happened to my wife did you not find unacceptable? Or did I misread your comment?
    I would love to know what you meant.

    And yes, I do know that far worse has happened to a lot of other people, including some of the people here , i.e the horrible crime that sparked off this conversation.

    I think Z made a very salient point here that there’s blood on the hands of drug users regarding this…I don’t know if this family makes their money by selling drugs (although, I’d be surprised if they didn’t) , but I’m sure a lot of them do. Maybe that’s where we need to start hitting back – ostracise anyone who buys illegal drugs, of any kind, of any quantity. After all, the money they are paying for their gram of coke or their 10 spot is filtering back into the pockets of these bastards, is it not?

    I’ve done it, it was bloody hard but I severed all ties with anyone I knew who used drugs, I don’t mean addicts, but just recreational users who like most people think that what they are doing couldn’t possibly be harming anyone else. Hard choice to make and I left behind some good friends but I couldn’t in good conscience look them in the eye any more. Maybe I’m wrong, I dunno. Maybe if we all encouraged society to start taking responsibility for itself these gangs would die off. Only one way to find out!

    This is my last comment on the subject (unless I get flamed I suppose, heh heh), thanks to Bock for (as usual) providing a thoughtful backdrop to talk about these things.

  39.  

    Abbot; No secrets, with reference to Steves post, his wife being stoned by some juvenile while collecting their child from school, yes, I think thats beyond unacceptable, nothing being done about it, yes, I think thats beyond unacceptable.

  40.  

    Abbot — What I’d prefer is that people would stick to the point.

  41.  

    How is it that you never hear of “drug users” being brought before the courts for possession ?
    The media spew forth on the very real crime in Limerick perpetrated by the “few” but, it might be simplistic thinking, but the city and its environs has to have “customers” for this trade, The recreational or any other brand of drug user is just as guilty of the support of organised crime.
    The “customers” probably come from all strata of society, why are they not before the courts ?
    Is there some degree of “off limits” areas in existence ? If the police know who the dealers are, then they know who the customers are.

  42.  

    St.Leger Norma, not only do these people not pay taxes etc, they laugh at those who do. These people are a subversive cancer in Ireland. Unusually for rich criminals they have stayed rooted to the communities in which they were reared. Thay have built strongholds there with most of their neighbours in fear of them. Some sons and daughters of neighbours have decided to become footsoldiers of the ganglords. They now rule the roost and answer to nobody. The order for the hit on Roy Collins undoubtedly came from inside prison. Those arrested lived in the stronghold and were aged 19- 25. No Dundon will ever be charged. I’m sure the punishment for grassing involves a bullet for you and your family.

  43.  

    gary – it stopped his criminal activity and made it harder to organise his criminal gang..

  44.  

    no 8 ; I can completly understand and emphatise with the extreme fear of a “death threat” which is why I ask how is it the “customers” of these criminals are “untouchable”.
    It is not the responsibility of the people to bring these criminals to justice, it is the responsibility of Legislators, the Judiciary, and the Gardai, all working together for the common good.
    Tough, tough tough new laws.
    The net is very wide and the area of responsibility seems to be getting smaller.
    A couple of years ago when Michael Mc Dowell was in Government, he suggested breaking up the dinner parties in D4 where “coke” was the desert du jour, he was silenced very fast and then lost his seat, I have no idea if that had anything to do with losing his seat but he had it seems touched a nerve.
    I don’t get why the “little darlings” can freely buy their drugs and avoid all arms of the law, yes, its appropriate to focus on the organised crime aspect, but the focus needs to widen to be effective.
    Even if the police are effective in locking up all the criminals, it still only solves a portion of the problem, there will always be someone to step into their shoes.
    Organised crime now seems to outweigh the capacity of the system in this country to deal with it.

  45.  

    The reason drug users are not arrested is because there is so many of them. If everyone who did drugs was thrown in jail who would show up for work Monday morning? Half the country would be in prison and the drug dealers would still be walking the streets.

    Good luck with that.

  46.  

    Fox; I take your point but thats just too defeatest for me.
    Firstly I did’nt say prison for “users” I said “before the courts” There are many people who still do not want themselves or their young adult children to appear in court, primarily because they have something to protect as opposed to the proponents of organised crime, who as previously pointed out, are operating on a “feral” basis.
    I would see large fines and a record as something of a deterrent to people who still want themselves and their children to at least be seen as “living within the law” For a lot of these “customers” a record of drug use would inhibit their entry to some countries and also to certain 3rd level educational facilities, its basically back to consequences, when there are none the basic human system collapses, as is very evident in this country, yes, its somewhat draconian but was’nt it a lot more draconian to put a bullet in young innocent men ? .
    I’m of the school of thought that everyone who buys drugs has blood on their hands.

  47.  

    bock.
    I left limerick for 4 months last november just after the killing of shane geoghegen and listened to all the bullshit politicians promising how they were going to get tough and round up all these scumbags I am only back a few wet days and this shit happens again, when are we going to wake up and demand that something happens. maybe we should all wear red or yellow shirts and take over dail eireann until they sort it out.

  48.  

    Steve,

    Apologies,

    Scrolled down to fast.

    I did not intend to to belittle what happened your wife.

  49.  

    29th of November 2002 Brian Fitzgearld was murdered by the same gang. Still we hear soundbites from the Gardai and politicians. Fact 2 more innocent men have died directly as a result of this particular gang being free to do as they wish. How many people have died with links to this same gang?
    Thats democracy for you. Plus all the kids that have overdosed and became addicts through there wares.
    Democracy

  50.  

    why not reopen spike island? don’t bother with prison officers, a navy boat circling the island will keep them in. i also imagine the mobile signal would not be great. place all criminals from boths side of the feud in there, and let them sort each other out.
    alternatively , why not outsource their imprisonment. have heard of a jail in arizona which is ran by a very strict warden. i imagine it would be cheaper than looking after them here.

  51.  

    I think the problem is we have lost all moral strength as a country and no longer know whats worth standing up for. Lets ask ourselves seriously, as a country, what would we actually fight for ? I don’t think we are willing to fight for anything. This is our fucking country. Limerick, Dublin are our cities. But unfortunately we have an utterly gutless political establishment. When it comes to organised crime Ahern Cowen and co think, what will the public tolerate, what will public opinion accept.

    I want to see leadership in this country where somebody strong says I know whats right and I’m telling you what we are doing. This is my country, I know what Irish values are and this level of organised crime is not us. I want somebody strong who ignores the bleeding hearts and the snobby elements in the media and political establishment who would prefer to blame the murder of Roy Collins on the state rather than the people who did it. Unfortunately I don’t see this happening, because in Ireland its about sensing which way the wind is blowing and getting in front of the herd.

  52.  

    It’s without question a subject that has most people baffled. People don’t know what to do now; except not be a witness. Willy the wanker along with the rest of the wankers in the Cabinet are afraid. They cannot even think for them selves. They haven’t yet, as far as I know, employed a contracted advisor to tell them in maybe five years from now what they should be doing.
    No leadership, no direction, no change, no country.

    I may have mentioned this before, but it is the solution the ‘experts’ in the USA are promoting;

    http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

    I believe it is a real option and would remove the flow of cash to the gangs here. What would that leave?
    But of course I know it’ not going to happen either because it will not even be considered. And that’s the real pity.

  53.  

    not only do we have a corrupt government, but also a corrupt garda force and judicial system. When it comes to dealing with the criminal scum, they choose to ignore or at least turn a blind eye to the high jinks of the most notorious gangers running the city and prefer to spend their time harassing innocent bystanders/people, people who are easy targets.

    A colleage of mine has been putting up with harassment and intimidation from the Garda Siochana for a number of years. The reason – he made a complaint about one of them to the Garda Ombudsman. This is just one example of what he has had to put up with :-

    He woke up one morning to banging on his front doors and windows. Sveral unmarked cars, several garda cars and between 15 and 20 Gardai stook outside. He was verbally threatened. He asked to see the warrant and was told that he could only view it from a distance (I shit you not!!). He was told that because he made a complaint against the Gardai that they were going to do everything in their power to destroy his reputation and he was told that they could do this to him every day of the week if they wanted to and that a Judge (I won’t mention the name of the Judge!) would issue them warrants at the drop of a hat. They were trying to make little of his original complaint and wanted him to say that he was just wasting Garda time. They brought him to the station and left him in a cell unattended for several hours and threatened to keep him there overnight. He was called names by two younger Gardai while he was in the cell. He said the cell stank of urine and there was excrement on the walls. He has a potential life threatening illness and needed to use the bathroom and when he asked for assistance, he had the door slammed in his face and told to use the hole in the ground of the cell.

    This was all done by a colleague/colleagues of the original gard he had complained and all this was apparently sanctioned by someone even higher. They kept him there for 13 hours and threatened to ruin his reputation and threatened to call to his place of employment. They also threatened to get him before a Judge – no matter what it took, they said they would find something, just to destroy his reputation for complaining them. How corrupt is that eh! He tried to make a complaint to someone higher in there but it fell on deaf ears and he tried to contact his Solicitor who was given the run around all day. His Solicitor tried on several occasions to speak to him and he was in turn put through to the wrong section, left holding or cut off. This incident has now been reported to the Ombudsman again.

    If it were me, I would publicise it on every gawd damn newspaper and radio station in the country. It’s frightening to think that people who are supposed to be there to protect us are allowed to get away with violating someone’s rights, human rights and integrity like that.

    This happened in Limerick by they way!! It’s scarey to think that they could utilise that amount of Gardai and that amount of time on someone that has done nothing wrong, when they could be utilising their time and resources on cracking down on the murderous criminal gangs around the city.

  54.  

    I actually couldn’t agree with you more on that Unstranger. I’m presuming you’ve seen it already but Milton Friedman’s arguments in favour of legalisation are very convincing on Youtube. Take all the power from the hands of these evil people. There’s no such thing as a perfect solution but this is better than the state of affairs at the moment.

  55.  

    The special criminal courts(non jury) must be used against these thugs, the legislation is already there for the Government to implement this. I also think that they need to be stopped from having use of any type of phone contact and that any visits should me totally monitored. These thugs have declared war on the Irish people.

  56.  

    Lockinvar
    Stuck between a rock and a hard place it seems.
    The type of situation you discribe is what alway puts me off when we talk of giving the guards more power in order to go after the gangs. Not to paint all guards with the same brush but it always seems to be the crooked ones who end up calling the shots, the same fuckers who find it easier to pick on a soft target then go after the animals, and I suppose the honest cops are just as sick of it as us.
    Perhaps cleaning up the cops might be the first step in cleaning up the streets.

  57.  

    abbot
    why do u think that i should take care of my self

  58.  

    La Craic, you’re right, it’s the crooked ones that are bringing down the good name of the decent honest ones and despite the number of crooked corrupt ones, I do know a few decent ones. A good clean up would be a good start, and proper training. I have a few friends working in that area and they are apalled at the way certain Garda bring the system down. A mates father (now retired) could tell stories that would make your skin crawl and his view on the Gard /Gardai/Detective in question is one of complete disgust. This particular Gard is renouned for this kind of behaviour and has been getting away with it for years. Of course, they will never admit when they are wrong, and very rarely get a suspension. And, the worrying thing about the whole situation is that the Ombudsman don’t get directly involved (unless there is a death or an assault of some sort), they appoint a local Superintendent to investigate under their supervision, so in effect, they never actually speak directly to the Gardai under investigation!. It’s still a Garda investigating a Garda and nine times out of ten, they know each other.

  59.  

    I hope that none have listened to the News . The scumbags have imposed a Police state. By scumbags I mean both the few filth hankering after Limerick and the incompetents in the Government.

  60.  

    Gary; I know you said you hoped nobody heard the news re police state.
    I’m in hibernation today, self imposed, so i have’nt, but i’m curious despite your warnings, can i ask you what thats about ? Who are these people ?

  61.  

    While we’re at it Gary, let’s not forget the people who have funded these scum gangs from the humble knocking off cars and dealing a little bit if hash days to their by now national stature of noteriety.

    Now this filth (scumgang variety) drive around in megabuck armoured Mercs and build fortresses (without any bother from the Planning Dept, but sin scéal eile) thanks in the main to the “social and respectable” cocaine users who tut-tut into their cornflakes every morning when reading or hearing of overnight tales from the Ganglands and then stuff €100 worth of Dundons Powder up their nostrils so they can talk shit all night.

    The unfortunate reality of what is coming to pass is that people are actually crying out for a police state (or more precisely a police force) to deal with the drug gangs. After last weeks latest dail-a-murder from the jailhouse we’re not a million miles away from a state of anarchy when people are virtually immune from further prosecution because quite frankly, no one will testify against them for fear not just they, but any close relative will pay for such evidence with their lives.

    As for the government …… too many vested interests involved making sure the lucrative judiciary/tribunal/legal circus carries on for them to give a fuck about people being able to walk the streets in safety.

  62.  

    Hoof; sounds scarily true.
    Your post on the “respectable drug abusers” is what really confounds me, I have never heard of Gardai raiding areas or houses outside of the usual suspects, which is why i asked the question previously, are “white collar drug abusers” immune from prosecution ?

  63.  

    The toilets in the Dáil were checked some time ago for cocaine surprise they were positive. My problem with the Police state is that contributors to this Blog may be considered enemies of the State and therefore subject to arrest . On certain conviction we shall spend a long time in Jail. The scumbags will continuo to rule both in and out of the Dáil.

  64.  

    Gary; Some years back, a distant cousin on a visit here told me some very scary stuff regarding web/blogs etc, he was some kind of computer whizz, heading up a US computer body, retired now, however, the accumulation of potential anti government info was astounding, primarily based on the traceability of keywords, truth really is stranger than fiction.
    But its too late for all of us, we’ve all said our piece, surely used our keywords, and if what you say is true, well identified, so instead of pensions we might indeed be well catered for by the state ! and there was i in my innocence expecting nothing but a kick in the arse.

  65.  

    Norma A friend of mine on a visit to the U.S..A. had his brother in law, a cop, check him on the American security computer . They had to turn off the printer because it was using too much paper.

  66.  

    Gary; I think, its not like i did’nt know this stuff but I must have kept it in a brain storage area for fear of paranoia or something, because i’m always surprised when it resurfaces.
    Maybe theres a money making scheme here ! like an alternative dictionary for bloggers, where “drugs” really means “pugs” (cute mushy faced dogs) and government could be ahem ! “God” (a supreme supernatural force upon which we can be brainwashed to look up to and be dependent on)
    Maybe I should give up these “hibernation” days, i think i’m losing the plot, and i liked them sooo much.

  67.  

    Gary; forgot to tell you, that distant cousin i mentioned earlier, yes he did retire but this super intelligent man had a total breakdown, his wife left him and he is now in a home for the bewildered, I kid you not, might have had something to do with his belief in “God”

  68.  

    Nora I was not joking . The next knock on your door may be the E.R.U. or the Dept. of Homeland Security In Germany used to been known as the GESTAPO.

  69.  

    I think it will take for a judge to be shot by these scumbags, then maybe other judges will stop letting these scumbags out on bail or giving them lenient sentences, wheres the 10 year sentences for the drug dealers caught with 13k worth of drugs, these sentences are rarely handed down. why??? because our judges are not accountable to nobody and are not in touch with reality

  70.  

    Was’nt there some guy a couple of years ago who was caught with 9 mil worth drugs, apparantly he got 6 years, with good behaviour etc out in 4 i suppose, maybe even less, its truly amazing.

  71.  

    Steve

    My familys heart goes out to you, all our love Rose Willie & Family

  72.  

    Ok, this is a little late to the party, but I thought I’d post it anyway. also, I am still shaking from the adrenaline so please forgive the invective.

    On my way home from the awesome Beijing takeaway off John’s Square this very evening, I took a shortcut through Garryowen.

    A bunch of teenagers had barricaded the road with bricks.
    When I stopped to move the bricks so i could pass, I was battered with lumps of concrete, as was my car. no serious damage, thankfully.

    Guess what? The little thing that attacked my wife, actually stood there with a chunk of a brick and threatened me, before fucking the rock at me, while all her cronies stood around drinking beer and laughing.
    Could not fucking believe it. I could have snapped her neck but then who knows what might have happened to me.

    Waited 20 minuted for the cops, during which time these little bastards pelted at least 4 more cars with big lumps of stone, the drivers of those cars had the sense not to stop.
    Cops did finally show but of course, as soon as the kids sa\w the big luminous squad car approaching, they scarpered. And I imagine that nothing will be done about it as usual.

    Now, if anyone out there can help me, maybe Bock can pass on my email. I want to know who this little animal is, because I am going to sue her family out of existance. Since she is too young to be prosecuted for a criminal offence, it follows (unless I am gravely mistaken) that her legal guardians are legally responsible for her and her actions. So rather than do anything rash I think I will simply take a civil case against them. right at this moment I don’t care if it bankrupts me.

    If anyone can offer any advice or can help me to identfy this person (Cloughan road in Garryowen, only a handful of houses facing the road, but I don’t know which one is hers. The girl in question is maybe 12 or 13, a bit shy of 5′, and has blond hair. Could be considered “pretty” if not for being satan incarnate.) then I would sincerely appreciate it. I guarantee that any information I get will be treated confidentially.

    I guess it does go to show though that, nearly a year on, things have only gotten worse around this city. Something has to change.

  73.  

    Steve; Is there any way you can move ? is it absolutly imperative you remain there ?
    You are completly correct in your will to fight for your right to live peaceably and without threat from feral children or their parents, However the course of a civil action may well bankrupt you financially but more importantly it might consume the energy you need for you and your family to live a happy peaceful life.
    It’s not the easy option but my advice to you is to move and live the life you want away from all of that obscene behaviour, It may well not be in your lifetime that the vital changes will occur and you are worth so much more than being drawn into their phsyco behaviour.
    Remember that every time all that adrenaline and rage courses through you in response to the protection you wish to provide for your loved ones, it is damaging you and that is the result these people want.

  74.  

    norma,

    thanks for the advice. Moving is not an option for me. We bought this house 4 years ago at the peak of the bubble on the last of the 100% mortgages, at a time when we actually believed that this area was not as bad as it was made out to be (I live in one of the estates off St Patricks Road)….given that the houses in my estate that are currently for sale are valued at over 33% less of what I paid for this one, it’s just not viable at the moment!

    And to be honest, another reason for not moving is that it is admitting defeat and unfortunately I am a stubborn mule in that regard. Even after all these years in Limerick, and after all the discussions we have had on this forum about the despicable behaviour of some of these people, I still believe in honour, integrity and justice. I have to believe in it, if not for me then for my family and the families of everyone else who has been the victim of these scum.

    I believe that somebody has to stand up for what is right and and although it’s very easy to ask “why me?why would this happen to me?” The answer is always “why not you? Why should it happen to someone else?”
    Trite as it may be, we’re either part of this problem, or part of the solution….If I move, I’ll continue to be part of the problem.

    I’m painfully aware that if I take the course of action I suggested, it could destroy me, and possible my family, and honestly that terrifies me. But I can’t live in fear.

    If what I do can inspire even one other person to stand up and hit back, then I will have succeeded. What I won’t do is accept that our ancestors fought and died (for right or wrong) to establish this state so that it could be subverted in this way.

    Now, I know all that above sounds like some kind of quasi-inspirational mash-up from a hundred different action movies, and in many ways it is because, where else would you get your quotes from, but I really do feel that way….the only problem is, I’m not sure how to act on those feelings.
    There has to be something that can be done, surely there exist in this city enough beautiful minds to come together and form a plan of action (not vigilantism) that can help to make dent in this. I just don’t know.

    As RATM said: “We have to start somewhere. We have to start somehow. What better place then here. What better time – then now”

  75.  

    Steve, I am with you on this, it is way beyond time we shouted stop, we cannot continue to accept this type of behaviour as the norm.
    Like you, I don’t know what the best course of action is, but I am willing to explore all legitimate means to address this, either we reclaim our city or we abandon it.
    Bock you have my email address, you have my permission to pass it on to Steve so that he can contact me.
    Before I read this post I received a text message from someone not known to me, possibly intended for someone one digit up or down from my mobile number,
    “Hi mate,im just wonderin if u hav the body armor fuljacket?Im interested” the mind boggles

  76.  

    Hopefully he’s a motorbiker…

  77.  

    well done steve you got red of the pile of trash down in hide road once and for all keep up your gud work because of you limerick would be a woser place ta live every body is out and about again back ta normal well all most every body but you did the gud work and i thank you 4 it the kids can play out side again and you can see peopel out chatting again that they could not do before wen them dun dundans was out and about keep it up till they rot in jail and all ther folliers ass well pack of courds is all they are your 1 man but you beat them in you own way no voilence at all a real man you are steve well done again

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