Anti-Gang Legislation Too Extreme, Says Council for Civil Liberties

The Council for Civil Liberties think the proposed Criminal Justice (Amendment) Act will trample on the rule of law, and to some extent they’re right.

The Irish Human Rights Commission are concerned that the new law undermines the ancient right to trial by jury, and in that they’re also correct.

Both of them are worried about the reliability of our police force, and they’re right to be worried.  Our police force is as unprofessional an outfit as you’ll find anywhere in Europe.

And yet, here we are, in a dreadful situation caused by the emergence of organised criminal gangs who need to be confronted and crushed without mercy.

The Criminal Justice (Amendment) Bill introduces a new crime: directing criminal activities, and it defines a criminal organisation as a structured group, however organised, that has as its main purpose or activity the commission or facilitation of a serious offence.

The new act will treat the criminal organisations who operate among us as subversive groups, which is what they are, and it will allow the police to give evidence to a non-jury court which can lead to convictions and imprisonment.

Do you think I welcome this?

I do not.

I think it’s appalling that matters have descended to this level, but I think it’s better than the situation we have at the moment, where murderous criminal families are posting videos on Youtube laughing at the law in Ireland.

I live in a town whose good name has been soiled by such lowlifes and I am fucking sick of it, so whatever my personal misgivings about loss of civil liberty, I’m a lot more concerned about people losing their lives on the orders of illiterate, drug-dealing scumbags who think they run our towns and cities.


Previously on Bock:

Crime Gangs  The Enemy Within

Limerick March Against Crime

Irish Criminals: Enemies of the State

91 replies on “Anti-Gang Legislation Too Extreme, Says Council for Civil Liberties”

I agree 100% with the Council for Civil Liberties. The new Act is giving powers to Gardai, regardless of their rank. It’s not tackling the problem, it’s going to make matters worse. It’s the corrupt few within the Gardai and the justice system in general that will inevitably f*ck things up. This is an ongoing problem, even though they will refuse to admit it. What’s needed is better law enforcement on the actual streets of Limerick City!

But Bock,
don’t you see, this is our chance
a structured group, however organised, that has as its main purpose or activity the commission or facilitation of a serious offence.(Fianna Fáil)
a structured group, however organised, that has as its main purpose or activity the commission or facilitation of a serious offence.(The Catholic Church)
Put them all away …………

I would consider myself a strong advocate of human rights and civil liberties but I too feel very strongly that whatever measures it takes to put these criminal gangs out of access to the general public is vital.
It’s a sad day that our concerns lie more in the fear’s about corrupt or power hungry law enforcers than the uneducated phycopathic thugs walking our streets, At the very least, there is some possibility of obtaining transparancy in the actions of law enforcers, should they act in the extreme, there is no chance whatsoever of obtaintaing any level of justice or progress if these gangs are allowed to go about their scurillous activities without the severest legislation coming to bear on them.
In my opinion they do not in any way fall under the banner of ” human rights ” or ” civil liberties ” only that they are hellbent on removing them from others.

Benjamin Franklin; ‘Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both’. We know that we live in a corrupt country with self a serving political elite and a police force employed to preseve the status quo. We elected these people.

The only people who’ll benefit will be the Gardai with their new powers. Odd when you think they are the ones supposed to stop these scumbags. In the end it would seem easier to let the situation get nicely out of control and then the electorate will DEMAND extra powers for the police. Problem, Reaction, Solution. Lost again

Every new law giving the police extra powers should be subjected to the Raphoe test. What would have happened if they’d had those powers in Donegal.

Is the unsupported word of a Garda to be sufficient evidence to jail someone for racketeering? What other evidence will be required to gain a conviction?

This is just a bit of draconian crap that will be smashed like a bug once it gets to the Courts, here or in Europe. And I feel that will make things worse as it will give these people the notion of invincibility in their dealings with the State.
The Peace is what these Garda are supposed to be all about, and all the extra powers in the world will not change things an iota while the Government and many in the state think of the Garda as Police.

I agree with all on the subject of human rights. I fear the new Law is open to abuse. However the entities at which it is targeted are allegedly now using three year old children as agents of harassment. These entities are not human and have put themselves beyond any consideration of rights. Rabid dogs are put down. Some animal rights people would have a problem with this.

It’s all very well to say that this law is draconian or that it won’t work, but I don’t see anyone here offering an alternative.

Anytime the Gardai get new afraid be very afraid..There are sufficient laws there already to deal with criminals.The problem is there are no smart policemen there to use them.This is only an attempt to create shortcuts to get around incompetence.And these laws can be applied to everybody in this state on any pretext.The real answer is in the way police are recruited.Ireland should seek the finest and brightest to fill its police uniforms and stop scouring the bogs for the dumb and dumbest.

I just did Bock. If the Garda did what they are designed to do, then there would be a presence on those estates. And by presence I mean the full escalating nature of Peace enforcement, the if you have a stick then the State has a bigger stick. But up ’til now we have the Garda acting as Police, the thin line between sections of society or the pattern of the RIC. Where officially everyone thinks that all on the council estates are scum and not worth the dignity of Citizenship. But most are good people whom you would have little difficulty having a pint were they with a different post code.
And the very idea of giving these scavengers the dignity of the word subversive just sticks in my craw.

I share your scepticisnm about the professionalism of the police. However, on the other point, if the criminals are subverting our society, then they are subversives.

For all of us ” good people ” who are not living in estates which are for all intent and purpose are under siege from the virus of criminality and fear, well its fine then for us to prosletyse on the ineffectual and corrupt law enforcers, while not recommending an alternative, because all you ” good people ” possessed of more acceptable ” post codes ” have the liberty to think and act daily without the fear of your phycopathic neighbours.
All of the ” good people ” oustide these estates may have an occasional brush with these thugs, but for the ” good people ” whose lives are now tarnished by their ” post codes ” the new Bill is urgent.
Call on people who live in the vicinity of these thugs and ask them about human rights and civil liberties, because apart from everything else, they are in fact the first port of call.
Old people living in terror, going hungry for fear of walking to the shop, parents behaving with complete paranoia for fear their children will become inveigled into a gang, throgh fear or promise, I could go on, as you know ! but it’s not ideal unfortunatly it’s vital.

Johnny Scobe is hauled up in front of the beak on a variety of charges. There’s no jury and he’s nailed on the “expert opinion” of a superintendent. The beak hands him 15 years in jail. So far so good. Next case. Seventeen years for you. Next! Meantime, Johnny hires a wigged one and he argues that the conviction was unconstitutional, M’lud. Our learned friend will argue that his clients human rights are being violated and he will be backed up by Pierre Foreigner in Brussels. Results. Johnny Scobe walks and the Irish taxpayer will be left with a massive legal bill. And get this, if Johnny walks he might never again have to face the same charges. I hope our government have thought this one through and this legislation is watertight.

It’s too easy to blame the Gardaí, although I don’t have a lot of respect for them. Until the Gardaí are not seen as a cushy number and a boys club then it is always going to attract chancers. The drugs gangs are armed with sophisticated weapons, our Gardaí are mainly unarmed. How are they supposed to tackle arm gangsters? On the odd accasion that a criminal is shot there is hell to pay with all the weeping liberals crying for the poor victim. The change has to be lead from the top. The Minister for Justice can no longer look upon the Gardaí as his/her personal militia, they are there for the good of the country. Time to develop a number of units within the force such as, traffic, community, special etc.

@ William
..”This is only an attempt to create shortcuts to get around incompetence”…

My sentiments exactly! The Gardai have had and still have ample opportunity/opportunites to tackle the criminal elements in this City. There is no significant Garda presence in Limerick. They use tactics to intimidate the wrong people and it usually backfires. The one or two corrupt individuals bring down the whole establishment. They are there! I could name one or two, and sadly even three or four.

No8, while you see the Garda in one way, as chancers. Others see them in the roll of MI5, MI6 and all other special branch twinkyness you can think.
Bock, you need to look at this legislation outside of the Limerick. Think anti-terror bull whistle. And control-C, control-V,. from Whitehall.

Maybe I don’t need to look at it your way.

Maybe I need to keep saying these vermin must be crushed for the sake of our children.

How about that instead?

I can’t see this legislation making much of a difference. And since I keep my nose clean it doesn’t bother me that my civil liberties may be encroached upon. But I can see how it might bother some people.

What does get me though is how we as a nation seem to be sitting on our asses whining about the government and the cops (neither of whom I have much respect for in many ways, it’s true)….as the cliche goes, you’re either part of the solution or you’re part of the problem – and I believe that our society is the problem.

Every time you buy a knocked off DVD, or a ten spot, or a bit of coke, or a “dodgy” laptop, you support these people. Every time you see a bunch of fucking scum kids hassling someone on the street and you don’t do anything, you support these people. And we’ve all done it. Made our excuses to ourselves “ah sure you could get stabbed or probably the cops will arrest you”. Yes, yes you might, but then again the next random attack may be on you. Or your kids. But we’ve allowed ourselves these trite excuses for so long that now we actually believe them.

This is where their attitude and their money comes from. If they couldn’t make money from doing it, they would be out of business. End of problem. Yet very few people (that I know anyway) will admit that they are part of the problem. They’ll rationalise it away somehow so that it’s not their fault.

These bastards are only allowed to get away with their complete lack of regard for the rest of use because we have for so long turned a blind eye. By allowing our society to become a materialistic, self-centered “unique snowflake” me-me-me clusterfuck, they can operate with impunity. Speak out, or step out of line – and you’re fucked. Except, if we ALL stepped out of line, they wouldn’t do a damn thing. Because they can’t take on a united front. I’m not talking vigilantism, simply a collective morality that’s adhered to as tenaciously as they adhere to their lack thereof.

Steve; The legislation is needed, provided it’s airtight, It’s needed to protect the collective, and might promote their courage to tackle and report what they see.
But I agree, if they had no customers, that would be a great start., It’s very demoralising to try and take action but to find nothing is ever done and all one can expect are reprisals from the scumbags

How will this legislation impact on legitimate direct action by concerned citizens representing any organisation. This provides a far too convenient mechanism for the government to slam activists protesting for action on behalf of disabilities, education, climate change etc.

We need to be very careful about allowing this kind of legislation to be put in place. I quite agree that strong measures are needed to prevent gangland crime but this is potentially something very different.

DeCarabas you have summed it up exactly and in Ireland anything that can be misused…will be.

DeCarabas I think we need to read through the bill before we enter any areas bordering on paranoia.
Its fairly unlikely that protests or gatherings or organised structured groups would design their displays toward the commiting of a serious offence.

Norma most protesters who just walk around with placards would probably fall outside the remit of the bill,but some protest more robustly and bend or even break some laws and defy court orders.Not so sure that those groups could not be silenced by those laws.Just some examples…the hunt saboteurs look they could fall foul of it.Perhaps the Shell protesters also envoiremental groups who chain themselves to trees etc in defiance of court orders and so on.It could be argued that they are a group of 3 or more whose main activity is the commission of “criminal offences.”

William; the Shell protestors have my total admiration, they are trapped in a disgraceful debacle, i would sincerly hope they would not fall into this catogory.
Environmental protestors have an end goal and likewise as above.
Hunt saboteurs, to me are a bunch of ignorant scumbags who have no interest in accruing knowledge of the countryside and rural ways of life, i cannot stand the hypocrisy of hurting animals in the name of saving animals.
As i said the bill needs to be read in detail but almost regardless something has to be done and urgently, it’s unfortunate that we have so many doubts but there is no doubt that the criminal gangs need to be eradicated and if there is an alternative to this bill why has’nt anyone suggested it.

Norma I strongly disagree with you about the Hunt saboteurs.I own a farm and am plagued by hunts who are the most ignorant arrogant scumbags I have ever encountered and contrary to their propaganda the vast majority of people in rural Ireland detest them.They are rural Irelands anti social element.But anyhow that is a totally different argument so I will leave it at that.

The civil liberties people think its a good idea to have pedophiles living in our neighborhoods and not letting us know about them, so why should we care what they think.

Tony; excellent point.
William; any hunt that behaves irresposibly toward farmers should be stopped crossing that land, no land no hunt, the saboteurs don’t assist farmers.

Bock, I wonder if the local media will take note of the gun violence in Dublin as highlighted in Yesterdays Indo….Should we be giving Dublin a derrogatory name like the Dublin media put on us here in Limerick all those years ago!!!….I’d love to see their reaction to it if we did….but we won’t because we are better than that!!!, From my count it’s 12 gun murders in Dublin this year….no wonder Dublin is now Europes most deadly capital city…..Hopefully this new anti-gang legislation will get passed (and more soon) and help put an end to all of it…

Monday July 06 2009

Yesterday’s shooting was the 16th gun murder this year. Below is a list detailing all of the victims:

1. January 7: Drug dealer Michael ‘Roly’ Cronin (35) was shot dead as he sat in a car in Summerhill in Dublin.

2. January 7: James Maloney (26), from Poppintree in Ballymun, who was driving Cronin at the time and was also shot, died two days later.

3. January 19: Stephen O’Halloran (20) was shot in the head in Kilmartin Drive, Tallaght.

4. January 20: Graham McNally (35), from Cappagh Avenue in Finglas, was shot and dumped in wasteland near Ashbourne, Co Meath.

5. February 9: Michael Hendrick (36), from Clondalkin, in dublin, shot dead as he sat in a car at Melrose Park in Clondalkin.

6. February 18: ‘Champagne’ John Carroll was shot dead while drinking in Grumpy Jack’s public house in the Coombe, Dublin.

7. March 3: Michael Murray (41) shot dead near his home while out walking at Kippure Park in Finglas.

8. March 12: Shay O’Byrne (27) shot dead outside his home at Tymon North Park in Tallaght.

9. Around March 17: Car mechanic Liam ‘Blackie’ Murray (42) was found dead in his bed in Rockbrook Road in Rathfarnham.

10. March 30: The body of drug dealer David ‘Fred’ Lynch (26) was found on wasteland near Belcamp Lane in north Dublin.He was shot four times in the head.

11. April 9: Roy Collins (34) shot dead in Roxboro Shopping Centre, Limerick.

12. May 7: John ‘BJ’ Clarke (22), of Brookwood Abbey Apartments, Artane in Dublin, died after suffering multiple gunshots.

13. May 28: Charles Sinapayen (32), from Bordeaux, was killed by a shotgun blast through the window of his Bray apartment.

14. June 16: Paul Smith (34), from Dunsink Lane in Finglas, died from gunshot wounds. His body was recovered at Ballough in north Dublin.

15. June 17: Thomas Joyce (22), from Grove Lane, Coolock, was shot outside his house.

16. July 4: Wayne Doherty (32) was shot twice in Hartstown, Clonsilla, Dublin. He died yesterday.

Actually, it was one of our own who devised that dreadful nickname. Gerry Stembridge, a Limerickman, came up with it when writing Scrap Saturday.

I notice that the chatterati aren’t shouting so loudly about the levels of violence in Dublin.

It would be interesting to transpose one of those breathless reports on Limerick now, wouldn’t it? “Fear stalks the streets of Dublin as armed police stand watch on every corner …”

Bock the problem is that armed police do NOT walk the streets of Dublin. A man was knifed in the neck about a minuets walk away from O’Connell St . Like it or not the main St. of the Capitol of the Republic of Ireland. As far as I am concerned if Limerick or Cork or anywhere else for that matter want the title of Capitol then you are welcome to it. That would leave us in Dublin to whine about you at will!

I sent this to Paul Williams at the SundayWorld today, awaiting an answer.


In light of Dublin’s recent promotion to the top of the European murder league, I was wondering if

1/ You plan any insightful reporting into this frightening statistic as you so fearlessly reported on Limerick crime?

2/ Will you or you colleagues in the Fourth Estate christen Dublin with a derogatory name similar to the one which has followed Limerick for years?

3/ Use the power of the media to drag the name of Dublin through the mud like ye did the name of Limerick?

4/ Inform the 000s of tourists that come to Dublin that they are entering the murder capital of Europe?

5/ Ensure that tourist guides such as Roughguide and Lonely Planet refer to Dublin by its new nickname as they referred to Limerick for years.?

I hope that you will report the reply if any. Tipperary Town was also having a problem in the recent past but no reports of late? Dublin is not the problem. Filth pots are ,wherever they exist. So perhaps we could cut the poor little me if the shower up in Dublin did their job we would be fine crap.

Gary, that horse is too tall for you, best come down off it. No one said that Dublin was the problem. The problem is drugs. But for years Limerick crime has been reported and highlighted with what appeared to be relish. Limerick is far from perfect but every breach minor and major was broadcast to the nation and in some cases to the world at large. The alleged kidnapping of the Ryan scum attracted a media circus. I only ask that Williams and the rest of the “journalists” report the upsurge in Dublin crime with the same relish that they did so for Limerick. So perhaps we could cut the poor oul Dublin is the salt of the earth and the real bastards live in Limerick crap.

No.8 did you perhaps miss Bock’s last post?

“Actually, it was one of our own who devised that dreadful nickname. Gerry Stembridge, a Limerickman, came up with it when writing Scrap Saturday”

It is not a horse. It’s an Ivory tower. The animal rights people give me hell over the number of Elephants involved in construction.

I’m well aware who coined the phrase. Never blamed/accused anyone else. I’d just like some honesty, consistency and perspective in crime reporting. Limerick is not Utopia, neither is it Gotham.

I love Limerick . I can not count the number of visits . Never had a bad experience. The City is great. However I love Sligo, Cork Galway, Belfast ,Etc. But I seem to be getting a “poor little me” message from your post’s I may very well be wrong I have been known to be so .

Gary it is not my intention to come across as “poor little me”. I have outlined my views of Limerick and of the reporting of its crime. People can make up their own minds.

Why are we gone off the subject of the civil liberties people, the sooner the better these shitebags are exposed for what they really are the better, these do gooders are making careers for themselves from objecting to laws that will make Ireland a safer place to live, furthermore who is funding these liberals, it seems to be that anyone can start a civil liberties group or anti racism group then apply for grants and give themselves a nice salary and a company car, then just moan like fuck about whatever will get them a bit of publicity.

Whether they bring in this legislation or not im not too bothered. It all depends on what the public want, if they want to live in a safe society with these scum locked up bring it in if not don’t (simple). This is why i stopped doing a tap of work in my station. I used to dedicate myself to my work but recently got fed up with serving a public who don’t want to be served. now i pick up my cheque and do SFA. Pity but thats what happens when do-gooders take over the country.

What would you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean – a good start. Well over 100 of them co-signed a letter to the Irish Times yesterday outlining their concerns about the proposed legislation. But Kevin O’Connor writing in today’s Irish Times reckons: “Lawyers are essentially technical, exploiting pedantry and linguistics. They make arguments separate from common morality or fair play on behalf of customers.”

Full piece.

Nevertheless, I’m wary of same, mainly because this government, who could’nt organise a piss up in St James Gate, are behind it.

Yeah, those fucking scumbags, the way they manage to make the public so suspicious and distrustful of the Gardai that they’re willing to put up with said scumbags rather then trust the Gardai with new powers. And the way they’ve made the Gardai (as an institution) look like a bunch of corrupt incompetants is another disgrace, while our brave boys in blue are busy laying their lives on the line to protect us… and shell of course.

Some of the cops get a bit carried away with power alright.

Did you read the one about the sheep blocking traffic in Wales, and the cops, instead of giving her a boot in the hole and chasing her off, tasered the wooly fiend.

They tried to turn the misfortune into a Kebab on the motorway after putting 50,000 volts through her – a fucking sheep, one of the most benign creatures known to man.

Imagine the scene…. with apologies to DeNiro in Tax Driver

“Ewe talking to me, ewe talking to me. I don’t see anyone else here, ewe talkin to me?”

“Baaaaaagggggh, ” sneers the Baaaaabaaaara, fag dangling from the side of her gob.


One sparked out sheep sprawled across the motorway. Great stuff lads, great days work,
protecting the community from sheep with attitude.

I watched Steve Collins and Paul Williams with Miriam O’Callaghan on TV last night and while I have the greatest sympathy and understanding for the Collins Family and while I too want a stop to criminal activity in Limerick, the passing of this Bill has and will unleash, in my opinion, further violence and further corruption overall.

What planet is Paul Williams on if he thinks that most of the Judiciary are honest!. There’re not. There are a handful of Judges that work in conjuction with local Gardai. There is a chance that the wrong people with be sent down on the word of any rank Garda, even former Gardai (and sometimes they are former for a reason!). It will be abused. Cases could take years. They can apply for extended detention without the accused being present or Solicitor. What’s going to happen is that they will still aim for the criminal underdogs.

There are Gardai in Limerick (and around the Country) who get way and are getting with away with using ‘working within the regulations’ as an excuse to intimidate the wrong people. It is worrying and a disgrace. I know of a case where a person made a complaint against a Garda (a Detective in fact), a Garda who was supposed to be investigating something for them, this person was being harassed and the Garda, it turned out knew the person that was doing the harassing and told this person to drop the complaint or they would make life ‘difficult’ for them. Evidence went missing etc and his colleagues covered for him. Then this person made a complaint about this Garda to the original Garda Complaints Board which went on for years. Then they went to the new, supposedly independent Garda Ombudsman when it seemed he got his colleagues to drum up complaints and start harrasing this person for making the complaint in the first instance. The Ombudman said they couldn’t reopen the case but deemd this new complaint admissible after about a year. This person was threatened by this Garda’s/Decective’s colleagues that they would harass him in his job, at home etc and get him in front of a Judge just for the sake of it, just because he made a complaint. They also tried to get him to make a statement to say that he made a false statement and was wasting Garda time. They told him that the Ombudsman would be on their side and that he couldn’t do a damn thing about it. Every time the Gardai do something to him, it has to go in as a separate complaint with the Ombudsman! and it’s a local Superintendent that is doing the investigating. It’s so corrupt is a downright disgrace.

Did’nt see MO’C show, but i am wondering why is anyone surprised.
With all due respect Lochinvar, the situation you described has always existed, There have always been good cops/badcops.
It’s obvious now that this Government cannot run a Health system, A social welfare system, Why all the surprise that they cannot run A Justice system ?
We are falling between stools, and the fear of an innocent being caught up in this new legislation is just not grounds for not passing the bill, the fear of an innocent and many innocents being drawn into or murdered by these subversive gangs is far greater.
So many objections from so many quarters but no alternatives proposed, why ?
I watched Vincent Browns debate on this during the week, one lawyer, did’nt get her name was championing the cause of dealing with it from the ground up, as in better housing, better educational facilities, better everything f

It seems some people have forgotten the framing and sending to prison of innocent people in Donegal.Imagine the use the fuckers up there would have put those new laws to.And lets not forget Officer “do you know who I am “of recent taxi incident fame involving slapping a lady about the face,That fucker must be rubbing his hands in glee at getting more power.And another issue of corruption in the Gardai is the subtle intimidation of business people into giving them freebies by flashing their all powerful and almighty badges when they are off duty.It goes on all the time up and down the country.I worked in security for a while and seen it regular.Most business people are afraid to refuse in case they are harassed or intimidated as a result.Nothing wrong with bringing in laws to tackle gangs.But look at who those fucking powers are going to be given to!!.Makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.As for Paul Williams,what you dont see there is that there is a Garda hand up his arse when his jaw is moving.Might as well be listening to Fachtna Murphy as listening to him.

Norma that sounds like an argument in favour of hanging.Who cares if a few innocent people get strung up as well!

Norma, the particular Garda that was complained is renowned for loosing evidence, issuing summons as a form of intimidation, taking on cases and not finishing them and he has never been formally made responsible for his actions. He has and is getting away with it for years. The person that complained him found it incredibly difficulty to get a Solicitor in the Limerick area to take on his case. They were all too afraid to take on this particular Garda or go against the Gardai in any shape or form! This particular Garda strolls in and out to various legal offices and is very pally wally with Solicitors and Barristers. It’s widely known that if you make a complaint against a Gard, they will issue some sort of summons as a way of retaliation. The Gardai can get warrants at the drop of a hat, for any trival matter. They can get warrants and harass innocent people, yet they maintain they cannot get to or touch the head of these criminal gangs in Limerick. That’s a load of bollox. They know who is behind the murder of Roy Collins and the intimidation of of the Collins family. All they have to do is get a warrant and arrest such person/persons on the word of Steve Collins and charge them for same.

The person that complained the Garda did so because he has been putting up with constant intimidation from them for years, just because he made a complaint. One instance was when they arrived to his work place with a warrant and told him they would break down his door unless he went with them and that they would cause a scene in front of his work colleagues. They said that someone had made a complaint against him, someone he didn’t even know, but had the same surname as the Gard he originally complained. Later that day they tried to change the scenario around by saying that he didn’t have to go with them that it was voluntary!! Another instance they arrived again caused and scene and said someone else (connected to the first person!) made a complaint. They left him in a cell for several hours. This is going on for years. The Ombudman say that if the Gardai have a warrant they basically can do what they like, that they are acting with regulations and generally one Gard will back the other up.

And William that particular case in relation to the Taxi, that Garda got off with that due to a legal issue!! That girl made a complaint to the Ombudsman and he was brought to court and at the last minute due to some unknow legal issue, he got off scot free. That’s what usually happens 99% of the time. The Ombudsman are now trying to eradicate complaints in relation to searches, warrants, arrests etc as they seem them as trivial complaints. The Gardai, in turn, are now trying to bring civil cases against people who complain them!

There was a very interesting programme on Prime Time a couple of months back. It was in relation to the Boylan case and showed just how corrupt the who Garda/Judicial system is.

Locinvar and William, what ye are describing is East Germany pre the wall coming down. I know that there is a bad element in every police force but ye are descibing a scenario where the majority of Gardaí are corrupt. . The solicitors that signed the letter last week are among the highest paid defenders in the country, they’re looking at the gravy train being derailed. If you disagree so strongly with the new law then please offer a workable alternative.

William ” sounds like ” ? perception.
Lochinvar; Very seriously, I know where you are coming from, The bigger reason that corruption has been tackled in the past is because it was placed in the public domaine, I agree with you that it is not dealt with behind closed door’s but who is responsible for placing it in the public domaine, We are.
That does’nt make anything right but in Ireland, and very probably many other countries, the only way to eradicate corruption is to fuck it out there, once it can be controlled by the people concerned with maintaining the facade, it will be.
It is not acceptable because as i have said in the past there are some very decent men and women trying to do a good job.

Lockinvar..yeah it was the Ombudsman who brought that case.The girl complained to a Garda sargent on duty nearby within minutes of the incident as I understand, and he obviously done nothing about his pal.Oh and it does not surprise me that they want to bring civil cases against people who complain about them.They would sue their own mothers if they thought there was a few bob in it.After all they sue the state almost every day for the most trivial things such as a little cut on their finger etc.

No8 the way to solve many problems is to look at them from a less obvious angle.And in this case it is the Gardai whose job is to sort out the gangs but have proven to be woefully inadequate at doing so.They need to be transformed into a competent professional police force from their current status of lazy corrupt incompetents.Police forces all over the world deal every day with gangs some much larger and better organised than the ones here.The Mafia in America has been virtually eradicated as an example.And the police did not need the kind of extraordinary powers that are coming in here.

The Garda ombudsman cannot impose penalties or sanctions, It can recommend disiplinry action to the Garda Commisioner or in the case of a criminal act to the DPP, They do have to act under regulation.
I have known other cases where intimidation tactics and blind eye tactics were employed, However, I still maintain that the majority of Gardai are doing their job well under restricted and outdated laws and procedures.
For your friend Lochinvar, he should not accept the treatment meted out to him and should check with the Citizens Advice Bureau that his complaint complied with all the guidelines and therefore should be dealt with professionally.
Certainly, many Solicitors in reciept of Legal Aid fees are ” cats with cream ” the payments are extraordinairy, i read somewhere recently that one prominant LA Solicitor in Limerick recieved payments of 900k last year, Apparantly some prosecuters also objected to the Bill, This is why i firmly believe that Free Legal Aid in the case of criminal activity should have a cut off point, as in 3 offences and that person would no longer be entitled to it.

why not bring in legislation that offers immunity to an individual who gives evidence against the professionals who are working with/for the criminals? it might be easier tackling the solicitors and accountants who are involved.

Great site, was recommended.
” immunity ” surely its the job of the Law Society to monitor the ethics of their members, im not sure but are you suggesting the criminals get immunity for spilling the beans on the ” professionals ”
So if ye don’t trust the Guards, on who’s Superintendent will give evidence, backed up by surveillance etc and a paper trail, how would it be ok to give immunity to ganglords so as to prosecute solicitors and accountants, and what will the crims do with their immunity, find another dodgy legal eagle, as for accountants, why would they use them, they hardly present tax returns or have i misunderstood gerryo.

In 2007 LA bill to Government 45 mil, estimated to rise to 200 mil 2008, 2009 ?

The whole system needs a good kick up the ass in my opinion. Major reform is what’s needed. I know of one Dectective who worked and is probably still working as a bouncer (and they are not supposed to be moon lighting!). He had a string of stool pidgeons. I worked for a large legal firm and was privy to the fact that one of the Solicitors used to have a well known crime figure (now deceased, murdered) doing the odd job around the house!

The Garda Ombudsman in my opinion have no real power. A lot of people seem to think that by making a complaint to the Ombudsman that they will get some sort of justice. It’s not the case.

From a legal perspective this legislation is wrong, there is already more than enough draconian criminal legislation on the statue books. The question is that much of it has never been enforced is due to in large part to lazy / incompetent police work. This piece of legislation is a whitewash it is meant to give the idea to the public that the powers that be are “Tackling” crime. In the emotional heat of such debates facts are distorted and often confused. People often forget that such laws may be used against them as in the case of the Offences against the State Act , which has been used / misused by the Police over the years in criminal cases non related to anti state activities , examples can be found in any Irish law text. It is a very dangerous idea that we have to give up fundamental freedoms of legal rights that have been hard won. The message that we will be a safer society with these new laws reminds me of the arguments by Blair and company when they introduced ” Anti-terrorism legislation” in the UK. A law passed in such haste means that it is flawed and this will be proven in practice.

John has hit the nail on the head. He is right to a ‘t’! in that legislation is already there! If it was enforced properly, and enforced with regard to actual criminals rather than enforcing it and bending it when it suits them to intimidate individuals that complain them, there would be no need for the ‘curtain’ of the new bill.

Norma, I know this person through a colleague of mine and they have a legal team behind them. It’s a slow process trying to get the Ombudsman to act quickly. They are impossible to deal with. They’re excuse is their never ending back log of complaints and at that they don’t get directly involved. They never speak directly to the Gardai complained unless it’s an assault or death. They appoint a local member of the Garda Siochana. It’s a Garda investigating a Garda. This person is waiting, waiting to see what form of harassment the Gardai will come up with next. I’ve been at them to go public and I’m sure they will at the opportune time. They have been threatened with files being sent to the DPP, trumped up complaints from people he doesn’t even know but the complainants are surprisingly all connected and hopefully he can prove the connection to the Garda he complainted in the first instance. It’s shocking to see the amount of time the Gardai have dedicated to trying to intimidate him and even threatening him because he made a complaint. If they carry out their threat of trying to get a trumped up prosecution, he will go public and will make sure that every media outlet will be present and will know what’s going on and if he is true to his word, will name and shame every single person involved. I sincerely hope he does. It’s incredibly shocking. The Gardai don’t spent this amount of time on the scum that ruling the streets of this city.

I’ve recently heard another individuals story that’s even more shocking. There seems to be two members of An Garda Siochana that have a lot of time on their hands.

Lochinvar ; had a somewhat similar situation some years back, can’t give detail here, but i still shudder when i recall one evening, yet again going to the Gardai station when one of my children had nearly been very seriously injured for the second time, i stood outside, having been told, yet again, there was nothing to be done and why did’nt i just move, i felt so alone and so hopeless and at that time all my children had was me, i was overwhelmed.
I did’nt live in an estate with criminal gangs, can’t say where, but lets say it was a very attractive area, i had done nothing, other than make a complaint which i still think any responsible reasonable humane person would have made but i had no idea of the people i drew on my family.
eventually i took measures and did go public, it took an awful toll on all of us at the time, i think i had a silent breakdown, i could’nt leave the house for a long time and became paranoid about my kids safety, but it was several years ago and looking back i have no regrets, i would do it all again, it made me much stronger once i tackled the fear and now i can face those people with no fear and total disdain, i do have to say though that i recieved great support from some very decent fair minded members of the Gardai from a different area.
i can only say to you that i’m sure your friend will appreciate the support and going public is extremly hard and all costs of that move need to be measured, i wish you all the best of luck.

Sorry Bock Im kind off over occupying the post but i have a question weighing heavily on my mind.
Whereas I do think John has made very valid strong points and obviously knows Law much more than I, My question about this new legislation is, Will it encompass more than the criminal gangs which occupy the media ? Will it include paedophile gangs and other groups running illegal practices ?
I am asking because we had a particularly strange incident recently where an elderly woman was taking photographs on her mobile of my young grandson and texting, while attempting to make unusual close contact with him, trust me i’m not paranoid, my daughter and I were unnerved by her behaviour, I think you have done some spectacular and very moving posts on the subject of abuse, but lest we think it’s confined to religious orders, it isn’t.
It’s a highly organised and sophisticated syndicate of criminals and depraved people, who are very astute at circulating among us in an invisible capacity to target the innocent, it’s active and growing, and i wonder just how aware we are as a society of the very real danger.
To date we have an appalling record of protecting these abusers, will they fall under the cloak of this legislation or is specifically directed toward gangland crime.

Norma, trying to get local Gardai to act on anything is virtually impossible these days. They don’t offer any help or backup. I know someone that rang for the Gardai after finding something rather strange on their doorstep. They made an urgent call to the Gardai, they were left holding, cut off, rang again, put through to wrong department, cut off, etc. On the third attempt they eventually got to leave a message. They left an urgent message and three weeks later, no call was returned. It was only after they made several other attempts to contact the Gardai that they got any response. They were told by a female Garda that if it was that urgent that they should have dialled 999!!! They also wrote in and were told that if a letter didn’t have the correct title on it i.e. Garda John Smith, or Detective John Smith, that said letter would be discarded!! It’s vitally important to have their correct title you know! (christ on a mother fucking cracker, if you ‘ll excuse my greek!)

I just got wind of another case of Garda harassment and intimidation today! This one is beyond comprehension! I don’t want to say too much, so as to protect the identity of the person concerned. Again, this seems to be a case of someone making a complaint, the Gardai not following through on it and then this person making a complaint to the Ombudsman. What seems to be following suit is a bombardment of harassment and intimidation by members of the Gardai and I hear that it’s a local enough Garda investigating on behalf of the Ombudsman……… wait for it………. Askeaton. It also seems that the media are too afraid to go against the Gardai in any way i.e. in trying to question the issue of corruption at all, within the Garda Siochana. I heard that this person wrote personally to the new Commissioner, Fachtna Murphy asking him for his reaction to same and asking him for a response and why the Gardai could spend such a vast amount of time trying to intimidate them when there’s bigger fish to fry i.e. actual criminals. They apparently got a reply,somthing like a one liner, and he didn’t answer any of their questions. It’s like it’s a continual viscious circle of trying to brush it under the carpet and keep stum about the whole thing.

Lockinvar..the reason the media is not interested in Garda corruption and criminality is because the Gardai are their sources of information on other stories,so as you say its a vicious circle.Indeed something bizarre happened in a Leitrim Garda station today.It got a short mention on RTEs six o clock news but was removed from their 9 o clock news.Also minimal coverage of the ombudmans case against 4 Gardai for assault and kidnapping.

yeah William I noticed that RTE were very coy in their mention of same. A recently retired Decective shot himself at Leitrim Garda Station yesterday. The BBC news had the story as well though!

The Gardai will always adopt the ‘hush hush’ attitude when it comes to one of their own. They control a large percentage of the media in this country. I was recently talking to an acquaintance of mine who does some freelance work for one of the national newspapers. A story that they put out last year was removed…. in actual fact it asked to be pulled by the member of an Garda Siochana because the person involved was a relative of someone within the Gardai! If that was just any ordinary joe soap, the Gardai on the other hand would be issuing press releases on same!

crikey, you know what peeves the shite outa me is that these guys, supposedly there to serve and protect, abuse the system and not only that but abuse others as well. There is this constant wall of silence when it comes to exposing and dealing with corruption within the Garda Siochana, and it seems to be from the top down. I’m very disappointed in the new Garda Commissioner of late. It’s the same old spiel from him as well. Wake up and schemll the heather like :) I’ve been documenting something for the last number of years, doing some research here and there and a bit of digging and I’m damn well going to blog about when I’ve finished! Yes, that’s what I would do, I’d blog and blog and blog! And I’d keep writing to the Commissioner as well until I got answers. The onus should be put on him and referred back to him. I’d gather as much info as I could about everyone involved and when it hurts the most, I’d expose the sheisters. It’s the dodgy one or two that bring the whole system down.

William I know of another case where the Gardai tried to smear the name of the person that complained them. By smear, I mean they tried to make out that they were mentally ill, has psychiatric problems etc. They went around to various people within that persons circle of friends,work colleagues etc passing comments (the person that made the complaint against them was a professional person).

There was quite a bit of mention about the whistleblowers charter for Gardai in a prime time programme a couple of months back. The problem there is the majority of Gardai cover each others backs, even if it means lying. It’s going on all over the country and from what I’ve seen and heard in Limerick, Limerick is high on that list! If someone is complained, what follows is a disgraceful processs of harassment and intimidation and more often than not, some trumped up prosecution charges. Sometimes the Garda that is complained suddendly goes off the radar for a while, via a promotion, goes off sick, transfers to another station and then back again. They are very rarely held amenable. It’s make my blood boil that we live in such a corrupt society and the fact that there is a brick wall of silence from every angle.

The protection of human rights in a society does not imply that new laws cannot be introduced. However new laws must demonstrably add to the welfare of society as a whole, without prejudicing the rights of law-abiding minorities. Here we have a situation where many people’s human rights are being badly undermined by gangs of criminal thugs. The State has an obligation to react to the emergence of this phenomenon and to close the legal loopholes that allow such scum to avoid prosecution. Laws must evolve, and must keep pace with the inventiveness of criminals and their scheming lawyers. While everyone has a story about a crooked or incompetent Garda, the fact that the police force is not perfect does not imply that the State is about to charge a law-abiding citizen with ‘directing criminal activities’, a charge that carries a very specific definition. You’re not going to get charged with directing criminal activities for parking on a yellow line or not paying your TV license. So, while I am very sympathetic to the cause of civil liberties, we must remember that it is the rule of law that fundamentally guarantees us our liberty. Getting worked up over the theoretical possibility that someone will be accidentally charged with being a criminal mastermind is a cushy, suburban hobby; but in the real world, we need to be able to take down these cunts and put them away for a long time. If nobody dares to testify and we have to rely on the word of a senior Garda to secure a prosecution, so be it – I can live with that risk/reward trade off.

cynical Joe.
You have made most sense of anything i have read in regard to this legislation, grounded, realistic.
In the past 2 weeks 2 young people in a small town not far from Limerick have taken their own lives.
These people who will be dealt with under this new legislation have decimated lives, they have robbed murderded, intimidated and have broken all bounds of a growing society, they have trampled and manipulated and taken the future of young and not so young people of this country, they are a filthy virus which if not dealt with in the most serious manner will systematically destroy us.
Whatever anyones feelings or experiences with the Gardai, they should be put aside in support of the ending of this systemic pervasive filth.
I too can live with the trade off.

@ spaceapart

..”These people who will be dealt with under this new legislation have decimated lives, they have robbed murderded, intimidated and have broken all bounds of a growing society, they have trampled and manipulated and taken the future of young and not so young people of this country, they are a filthy virus which if not dealt with in the most serious manner will systematically destroy us”…

I agree wholeheartedly, they are a filthy virus and should be dealt with appropriately! But why do you think the Gardai don’t use/are not using the legislation/law that’s already there? to deal with these sort of people? The legislation is there, they just don’t enforce it. They are chicken shit when it comes to apprehending and charging these scumbags. The Gardai have no problem enforcing the legislation already in place when it comes to some minor misdemeanor/innocent person, or anyone who complains them. They retaliate by intimidation and harassment. The general public doesn’t get to hear much in relation to this as it’s brushed under the carpet so to speak and behind a wall of silence. The problem with the new legislation is that it will be abused, by a few. And what’s going to happen is that some little shit, well up on his human rights, will take the matter to the court of human rights and the country will end up a right laughing stock.

Trinity With all due respect to your views and opinions, firstly we are already a ” laughing stock ” in Europe and beyond.
Secondly, the road to the ECHR is a long detailed and ardorous one.
1. The applicant must have exhausted all judicial remedies available in the state concerned, as in the soonest an applicant may apply is within 6 months of the final decision being handed down by the Supreme court.
2.The complaint will be adjudicated by ECHR as to whether or not it is admissible.
3. There is no guarantee of legal aid.
4. ECHR would request all evidence and written observations from the applicant and the state concerned.
5. minimum time to hearing 7 years.
The primary reason this new legislation is urgent is partly due to the achaic laws which would take much longer to revise, e.g. laws applying to ” youths ” which carry very basic detentions and fines, e.g. A youth in Limerick was caught 3 times on cctv and by the Gardai, was prosecuted the maximum penalty was 9 euro due to archaic law adhered to by defending counsel.
As well stated by Cynical Joe, this is the “emergence of a phenomonen ” When the majority of the existing laws were written, no legislators in this state could have anticipated the number of ” youths ” roaming the towns and cities with high powered cars, sophisticated weaponry and minds fried by chemicals.
The people who will be targeted by the new legislation will never get their acts together to the degree required to bring a case to ECHR why ? because that takes focus, determinatiuon, education, rationale, years and years of hard dedicated slog and most of all a good degree of intelligence, they would require the expensive assistence of senior counsel over many years, and last but not least, they would have to emerge from their rat holes as at least partially integrated humans, so no Trinity, i think it very unlikely we will see that.
One last stat to leave you with, only 10 Irish litigators have won cases in ECHR.

to spaceapart, I work in a local Solicitor’s office. We have had recent enquiries from fairly well known criminals as to how to approach the court of human rights!! I can see where trinity is coming from.

Believe me some of these yo yo’s know the law inside out. The actual road to the CHR is not as arduous as you make out! anyone can apply/make a complaint. Granted there is the process beforehand, but again believe you me, these people will go down that route. Money isn’t any object to them, regardless of what CAB tried are trying to seize. I’ve seen them pay their legal fees up front in cash in some instances. Also, not all of the legislation that is already there is archaic. If you or I, went out and deliberately threatened someone in broad daylight, we’d be arrested and charged. Take for instance, when Steve Collins was threatened recently, the Garda Siochana haven’t done anything significant. They are still using the new bill as an excuse.

The new Bill is bad, very bad legislation. The five main areas of concern in relation to human rights being….. Search warrants can be issued by Gardai! Increased powers of detention. Taking DNA samples without consent. Things like these need to be taped and supervised. Admissibility of statements – again all of these should be recorded! Public Order Fines – on the spot fines allow the Gardai to be Judge and Jury and could also lead to the wrong people, including homeless people being criminalised.

There are local Gardai who more corrupt than the criminal element themselves. There are a few whom I would love to name!! They are abusing power as it is, even on innocents. There was a reason Roxboro Garda station was raided and searched in the last two years by the Ombudsman – corruption was rampant! and the Gardai tried to stop the search. Roxboro are now trying to clean up their act. There has been a lot of revamping and if you take real notice, you’ll notice that most of the media attention is now geared towards Roxboro rather than Henry Street, because Henry Street is veering in the same direction Roxboro was at a few years ago!

I mentioned a while back, maybe in reply to another post about what happened to a colleague of mine who made a complaint again the Gardai. They engaged in a torrent of harassment and bullying against him and at one stage dettained him for over 13 hours and threatened him. And one of the people involved was fairly high up in rank. He has made several complaints and all have to go in as separate. They told him that they would ‘get him’ for something, anything and that he should watch his back and all because he made a complaint and the complaint in the first instance was because they weren’t doing what they were supposed to be doing in relation to a complaint he made.

Lochinvar; I don’t doubt what you say, but as you said you work in a solicitors office, how many cases of drug dealing scum have you seen brought even as far as the supreme court on appeal ? how many cases of the same calibre have been brought before the echr ?
I have no doubt these people have buckets of cash, if there is appropriate implementation of this bill, they will have to account for the origins of that cash.
I also have no doubt they are very well versed in every legal loophole as by now they have had years of education by the system itself.
One must directly and personally be a victim of alledged violation.
One cannot make a complaint about a law or measure because they think its unfair.
If there is no violation found, the applicant must recompense the state.
There is no right of appeal in rulings of the ECHR.
There is a vital difference for applicants to the ECHR who have previous convictions to those who do not
As the ECHR only deal with infringments of one or more of the human rights set forth in the convention and is not a court of appeal and cannot annul or alter their decisions, the intent to proceed in that direction for members of criminal gangs would immerse them and their counsel in extremly grey areas.
Maybe some of them will challenge the legislation but for the many many years it will take to get them there then hopefully they will spend those years heavily incarcarated and provide some light for their tortured neighbours and the general population.
I wonder if your own views on Gardai corruption are blind siding you as to how badly a drastic solution is required ? even though you concede the fact that the Gardai ombusman is making efforts to deal with this, and i agree it has to be dealt with, neither the criminal gangs or corrupt law enforcers are going to be tackled overnight, i might get severly reprimanded for this and i would reject both options in more civilised times, but given the limited choices i would rather take on a corrupt cop any day over the cotinued destruction of unfortunate lives destroyed by the drug trade.

Lochinvar I used to work in a couple of legal offices a couple of years back. I wonder do I know you? I know of one particular Detective who is beyond corrupt, if that’s even possible! He went off the radar for a couple of years and it seems he is back on the scene again. He was complained, more than once as far as I am aware. The old and inefficient Garda Complaints board used to appoint Superintendents from Askeaton and Newcastlewest to investigate other Gardai in the Limerick area and needles to say, they usually got away it. The new Ombudsman isn’t much different. Their complaints are running at least a year behind and they appoint local enough Superintendents to to their investigating as well, and it’s a well known fact that they usually know each other. Henry Street is a joke. They don’t know their arse from the elbow in my opinion.

and spaceapart, I think you underestimate the dermination of some these scumbags when it comes to getting away with murder!

I missed this post, only came across it this morning!

I must be getting old; or worse!!

Anyway, the legislation may not be the answer we are being told it is. For instance, the recent shooting dead of that criminal in Kilrush by a citizen forced to protect his family due to the inaction of the police and the courts should not have happened. But it was inevitable. Kilrush has for many years been held to ransom by gangs of young scumbags. The individual shot in this episode has been in prison and has continued his deviant lifestyle. Kilrush is also the home base of a crime gang/family that were charged with ordering the murder of Fitzpatrick but due to witnesses failure in the court, these scum walked free. Their influence on the youths and poorer families in and around the town of Kilrush has made shyte of that town and this legislation is not going to sort the matters there.

Nor anywhere else either. I’d like to be proven wrong.

ahem, any particular reason you removed the last couple of comments? there was a couple from William, spaceapart and myself. Just asking!

I didn’t remove them. They were lost when we restored the site from a backup after the technical glitch of the last few days. I can probably retrieve them when I get time.

ohh k then. I knew I wasn’t seeing things a couple of hours ago! I wanted to make a reply to one of them. For a minute there I thought you were getting cold feet about corruptiongate.

Lochinvar. I did lose access to Bocks site after posting comment but then later i found it and comment but as explained, mine and Williams vanished.
To save Bock the trouble, I was basically saying i cannot reveal details here of my friends extreme difficulty with a particular Solicitor, but suffice to say he has not engaged man in question to act for him, his dealings with him would be on a business footing, My friend is a person of great integrity and courage who has endured the most dispicable lies, legal manipulation threats and intimidation, all along the lines you have described as been issued forth by the Gardai.
The Solicitor in question is well known for” scratching the backs ” of certain Judges, whereas he does not practice in Limerick he is well connected to the Legalese of Limerick.
I think, or at least it looks hopeful that my friend has now found someone to represent him, someone outside of Limerick who is not intimidated by the ” old boys club ” i have concerns regarding the stress levels he has to cope with but he is mentally very strong and determined to bring to light the appalling behaviour of at least this Legal liar.
As you said, it’s so true, Limerick is a peculiar ” den of iniquity ” The criminality of the city as related in the media seems not too far removed from the guardians, protectors and defenders of law.
I would say its a joke but it isn’t the lives that are being destroyed by greed and ego is at an all time high.

heh it’s just been made public that two Gardai are being questioned in relation to their links with criminal gangs. Of course we all know it will be hushed up! Surprised that RTE even dared to mention it.
There’s a lot more than two involved though, I could name three in Limerick alone!

Lochinvar….I saw somewhere on the net during the week that a total of 12 were being questioned.Yeah was surprised myself that RTE mentioned it, but it was only on their 6 o clock broadcast and with the usual lickspittle about the Gardai having a reputation for” honesty and integrity” LOL.They must not have read the Morris report that stated there was a culture of dishonesty in the Gardai.But of course the Gombeen men now expect us to believe that that deadbeat “police” force has honesty and integrity (sic)

What about “Civil Liberties” for the decent people who are afraid to leave their homes and are terrorised by these criminals? The scumbags need to be taken off the streets by whatever means necessary. I wish the Civil Liberties crowd would just f””ck off. They make me so angry with their pc bullsh”t. They don’t have to live in areas controlled by criminals. Typical do-gooders but NIMBYs at the back of it (not in my back yard people). Civil Libertiies, my arse. Round up the scumbags, public floggings in Pery Square every week. It’s late, I’m cross, watched Donal McIntyre’s programme, neighbourhoods destroyed. Young people with no futures, shit living conditions, a government with no vision, Willie O’Dea, blah, blah, blah. Nothing changes. Same shit, different day. I’m off to bed. Will probably write the same thing this time next year because I can’t see anyone doing anything positive to get rid of this evil in our city.

limericklass the civil liberties crowd are there to protect human rights and also to make sure that the Gardai don’t abuse their power. There are Gardai in LImerick who abuse power and unfortunately are linked with criminal gangs. There is a vast element of corruption and while that exists these scumbags will still rule the streets. This problem needs to be erradicated before anything substantial is done.

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