Oct 292009
 

I’m watching a TV3 documentary about my town as I type this.

j001Donal MacIntyre recites a litany of crime in Limerick over a sinister backing track as the camera pans across a terrace of derelict houses.

A voice-over describes Limerick as the murder capital of Europe with a murder rate exceeding 7 per 100,000 people.  An interesting concept in a town of 120,000 people where one killing can increase the murder rate by 15%.

One murder in a village of 1,000 people would bring the rate there to 100 per 100,000, making it the murder capital of the entire world by this half-witted measure,  but numeracy was never a prerequisite to get into journalism in Ireland, and neither, it seems, was logic.

According to Donal MacIntyre’s website, he’s an investigative journalist, specialising in hard hitting investigations, undercover operations and television exposes. He has won praise for his courage, and campaigning zeal particularly his consistent work in the area of care homes for the elderly and the learning disabled.

Going on the evidence of what we saw tonight, this is nonsense.

Donal Macintyre is a lazy, cynical journalist.

In the TV3 documentary, the camera closes in on children tearing apart a burnt-out car and follows two hooded children driving a motorbike on a pedestrian footpath while Donal provides the commentary.  Those children were encouraged by TV3 to commit crime for the camera.

[Update: it later emerged that TV3 used stock footage of feral  children they filmed in Dublin two years ago. ]

001-7What am I looking at here?

Do I recognise this town in which I thought I  lived and where I grew up?

Well, yes and no.

I recognise those estates on the television where poor people live in the desperation of poverty.  The same sort of places as they have in Dublin and Cork and Liverpool and Hull and Baltimore. (Ref: Dublin has highest rate of gun murder)

But I don’t recognise the town that’s home to the World Music Centre, or the Irish Chamber Orchestra, or Munster Rugby.  I don’t recognise the town where 046my son hopes to attend a University course in sustainable energy.  I don’t recognise the place where the creative people I know play music and perform  theatre and laugh and tell jokes and cook and eat and make love and swim and fish and play sports and enjoy life.

I’m looking at a sterile vision, given to us by the incompetent, cynical and unimaginative failure that Irish telejournalism has become.

I’m looking at child-abuse, perpetrated by TV3, as the track-suited children of  mendicant poor tear a stolen car apart for the benefit of their cameras.  I’m watching TV3 further brutalise children already damaged by poverty and it doesn’t matter that these children were filmed in Dublin rather than Limerick.  They’re still children, playing up to the cynical attentions of a tabloid TV station and a hack reporter pretending to be what he isn’t.

TV3 pays children to commit crime, denounces it, and holds its nose against my town.  The fact that they pretended these children were filmed in Limerick is neither here nor there.  We have feral children just like Dublin.

003I feel disgust, truly, and that disgust is misdirected because it ought to be aimed at the filth who defile our country, but which instead is diverted towards those who ought to know better.  People who think of themselves as journalists but who have no moral standards apart from hunger for the next cheap headline.

People who prefer to rely on the cliché and the stereotype instead of applying genuine analysis and intelligent thinking.

Pathetic.

001We have criminals in this town, and it’s about time our authorities devoted the resources to crush those low-lifes, as I have been saying since I started writing this site.  But I won’t accept this shallow and facile  characterisation of my town.

The more I see of these documentaries, the more I realise that the phrase “television journalism” is an oxymoron.

Journalism doesn’t exist in television.

With all the things going on here, the best that Donal MacIntyre can come up with is a few hackneyed shots of burnt-out houses?  Is he not embarrassed?  I certainly thought he looked a bit sheepish repeating clichés to the camera, and though it could easily have been my imagination, I felt I knew what he was thinking.

The Paddies will buy the kind of shite I’d be sacked for in England.

He’s right of course.  Our standards are lower, and shame on us for it.  But he’s wrong to act on such venal and grasping urges.  He should have more principles as a journalist.

Yes, we have social problems, and yes, we have crime problems, but tell me this.  Is your town free of them?

I believed Donal MacIntyre was a credible journalist, but when I saw his manipulative use of Shane Geoghegan’s murder, and that of Roy Collins, I realised he’s no more than a hack like all the rest of them, and that’s a pity.

Unlike Donal MacIntyre, I personally know people who were hurt by the loss of Shane Geoghegan and it pains me to see him use this tragedy as a prop in his portrayal of my town.  He’s not of our community.  He didn’t earn the right to use our injury this way.  It does him no justice and it diminishes him as a journalist to sink that low.

Nobody can deny that our country is beset by savage criminal elements and nobody can deny that we need intelligent journalists.

It seems we don’t have them.

Isn’t that sad?

_____________

Welcome to Hell.  This is Limerick.

  60 Responses to “TV3’s Donal MacIntyre – the Laziest Journalist In Ireland?”

Comments (60)
  1.  

    Wow the guy with guitar is a real Jeff Buckley lookalike from that angle.
    Would’nt be too hard on Donal McIntyre, I think a lot of those presenter/journalists have no say with regard input and editing.
    Bit surprising though, because he has carried out some great and dangerous investigative journalism on other channels, mostly British.
    It was an incredibly unbalanced view of Limerick, It basically regurgitated old news clips with a couple of interviews and panned shots.
    TV3 operates on a stringent budget so they seem to always opt for sensation over balance or quality.
    The programme was advertised on a lot of spin, As McIntyre has a rep for getting up close and personal with his subject, So it looked to me as though no research was carried out, It was a cheap package, aired at prime time and the budget was blown on McIntyre because he would get the viewers, given his usual style.
    Looked to me like they spent no more than a day on it, it was an opportunity but it had no credibility.

  2.  

    MacIntyre allowed himself to be associated with it and, as you point out, cost most of the money.

    That makes him a fake and a charlatan. This individual has no journalistic credibility. He’s a fraud.

    This programme casts doubt on all the work he did in Britain which, up to now, I believed was credible. After watching the TV3 offering, I have no confidence in anything else he did.

    The man has no substance and should not be taken seriously.

  3.  

    Unfortunately, many journalists – many, not all! – often, even though knowing it’s delusive, to say the least – do not withdraw the temptation of dramatising, and thus would choose such flawed comparisons.
    Just thinking of that there are two women living in this house. Given my mother-in-law beat me up because I’d not have a proper excuse, one might read in the local newspaper: In this house 50 percent of the women beat up 100 percent of the men.

  4.  

    Your house is the beaten-up-man capital of Europe.

    Quick. Send for Donal MacIntyre.

  5.  

    One would think that a journalist of his rep would be more respectful and protective of his own work, I think it unlikely that he did’nt ask questions, but maybe he did’nt, it certainly looked like it was all about the bucks, as you said, totally lazy journalism.
    If something like that was aired on channel 4 or bbc, they would be inundated with negative responses and it could be the undoing of his career, but it’s TV3 and it’s all about their own criteria, which with every programme is all about the spin and the revenue.
    just what part of the population do TV3 cater for anyway ?
    If he gets feedback it would be interesting to see his response.

  6.  

    No he is not ,that must be reserved for all RTE so called journos,to help the suffering from what passes for news I now try and spot the press release,who its from ,and whats in it for them .The news item itself is invariably exaggerated or wrong .

  7.  

    Ha ha, my dearest mother-in-law would never beat up her dearest* son-in-law.
    * there is no other

    Bock, we spoke about this topic in March, when I posted the following:

    Within less than seven minutes, in February German TV-vievers this* (*just checked; it’s no longer available) feature of Limerick learnt (a lot), for instance this:
    With 1 (in words: one) boat the Irish custom authorities [by the way, an interesting word, authorities] is determined to control 6,000 kilometres coast.
    Confiscating cocain amounting to 500 million Euro is thought to be one tenth of the total amount that’s being smuggled.
    You will see a member of the so-called Dundan Clan (Jimmy Collins), brashly giving an interview, boasting about that ‘police can’t stop us’.
    Obviously, as there happen more murder per capita than in any other town in Europe.
    You will see the coffin of Shane Geoghegan who was ‘accidently’ murdered.
    To learn more I commend to read Bock the Robber’s posts and their echoes in the comment-section(s).
    You will see a lawyer saying “They {the police] don’t know who is going to get killed next. The clans are very powerful.” The homes of people who would go to police and make an accuse use to be burnt out and their families terrorised. “Its better to keep one’s mouth closed than to end up in a grave.”

    Your comment then was as convincing as is this very post.
    Now can’t I entirely judge from distance; on reading your last paragraph, still I take up the cudgels for those journalists who (are doing their best to) make a good job. Rather than lumping them together with all those hacks, they ought to be supported.
    Gosh, both we know that most people tend to generalise. So why shouldn’t we try to make a difference?

  8.  

    Sean — This is a nice town, troubled by a few illiterate punks who could be taken out of circulation by any competent police force. The problem is a national one, caused by lack of will and imagination at central government level. This kind of lowlife has spread right across the country and right across Britain as well due to the PC culture of tolerating everything.

  9.  

    Ahh, what the feck do you expect. If wiki is half correct, him coming from Celbridge, well anything other than a designed town might be a tad frightening in a parsons daughters/special son sort of way.

    On Jeffrey Hannon what is understood as ‘well-regarded’ down your way.

  10.  

    I don’t know if you’re trying to cast aspersions on the Hannon family, but I hope not, since you know nothing about them.

    I can tell you they are decent people beset by savages.

  11.  

    TV3 is the Red Top or Tabloid of TV journalism, cheap, nasty and devoid of credibility.
    I don’t know Limerick very well, I have friends there and I have spent some weekends there for matches etc, never saw any murders though or for that matter any trouble at all. My friend lives on the South Circular, he walked me through Moyross once on a Saturday morning, to meet friends of his, I have to say I found it unsettling & it scared me a little. His friends lived there at the time and I think he took me there to show me that there are decent people living in these areas we hear about all the time, for the wrong reasons.

  12.  

    No casting of aspersions -at- the Hannon family, ‘well-regarded’ was one of the terms used at the time by the Limerick papers then and since. It has been used since by every paper.

  13.  

    I’ve looked through all the pictures, Where are all the Garda cars and murderers?

  14.  

    Quite, Bock. And yes, due to the PC culture of tolerating everything we’ll perhaps / probably have much more of this kind of fun.
    How to change this, though? And where to begin? Its but one of those many complex matters, beginning in parents’ house, kindergarden, school, …
    As for bad and good journalism, one thought. Why would so many tabloids sell? Because millions of people buy it! And I suppose for the same reason your TV3 can exist.
    Imagine TV3 offers such a “story” and no one watches …

  15.  

    Vincent — They’re described as well-regarded because they’re decent people. Their son was murdered by a crowd of bastards with a unique culture and tradition, who terrorise Southill, unhindered by the authorities.

    Lafsword — You might have found Darndale no less unsettling. Or Teresa’s Gardens.

    I once had the pleasure of living beside Fatima Mansions, the only place I was ever threatened with my life.

    But since that’s Dublin, you won’t see TV3 documentaries with Donal MacIntyre doing a Ross Kemp on it.

    They’re all fucking pathetic and they’re all symptoms of why this country is so fucked up.

  16.  

    No, Bock, Well-regarded is a Police term. The reporters did not lick it of the stones.
    Put it this way, are you well-hyphen-regarded.

  17.  

    A police term? What exactly does that mean?

    If you want to smear this family with innuendo, you should say so and we’ll be done with it here and now.

  18.  

    Limerick Independent, this year Thursday, 05 February 2009, Hannons break silence on Jeffrey’s murder.
    THE family of a “well-regarded” teenager murdered in Southill in November 2007 believe it knows who is responsible for his tragic death. Ref. David Raleigh

  19.  

    I’m getting very tired of this and I’m not far from finishing this line of talk, so I’ll ask you one last time before I end it. What exactly are you trying to say?

  20.  

    “You might have found Darndale no less unsettling. Or Teresa’s Gardens”

    My point exactly, while I found the area unsettling, I met people who were ok, every city has areas such as Moyross & Southill, as you say Darndale or for that matter Finglas, Quarryvale, Neilstown, Jobstown etc.

    I lived on an estate in Yorkshire, Braithwaite in Keighley, you knew when the bus was coming because the kids would be picking up bricks to hurl at it as it passed, heroin was rife and Knife crime was the local sport, yet hundreds of decent people lived and raised their kids there.

    The PC culture of tolerating everything is what has led us to become a society that tolerates this type of segregation & in some cases depravation, if the so called authorities Police & Government had the will and the balls to act, these scumbags could be tackled and dealt with and these areas could be cleaned up with very little cost to the tax payer. Leaving things as the stand will benefit no -one but those making money out of the situation, criminals, low lifes, drug dealers and now TV3.

  21.  

    Can I add some of my old calculations.

    ::

  22.  

    Rang the Newspaper re. the term ‘well-regarded’. They are unclear what Raleigh intended. Later in the day I will attempt to contact the reporter directly.

  23.  

    Vincent — It’s not relevant.

  24.  

    Back in the early 1980’s the then flagship RTE programme, Today Tonight did a special on Finglas, where I grew up.

    It did the lazy “Kids jumping on burnt-out cars” schtick too. Now this was something that was prevalent in Finglas at the time, it was the joy-riding (hate that term) capital of the country. But they still needed to actually encourage kids (classmates of mine as it happens) to jump on the cars etc, rather than waiting for it to happen naturally.

    Donal McIntyre is a self-aggrandizing bastard in my opinion. I watched about 5 minutes of another “hard-hitting” report from Eastern Europe, and basically it consisted of him telling the audience how dangerous it was, well. thanks. for. that.

    I know from my visits to Limerick, that like any other major population centre, it will have pockets of knackers. So does Cork, so does Galway, Dublin, Arklow, Gorey etc. But I also know that it is a great place to visit and have a pint and a laugh, to say nothing of rural Limerick, which is dotted with great villages.

    This programme set out for cheap thrills and could have been shot in any major town or city. It’s Daily Mail Scare Journalism wrapped up as a chilling look at the dark side. McIntyre and his methods have already been largely discredited by Private Eye (a real hard-hitting investigative organ)

    As for his input into the shows, he has total control over the content and editing and uses it to fool easily swayed people into thinking he’s some urban Woodward or Bernstein.

    Apologies for the length of this comment, but he really fucking annoys me…

  25.  

    You tuned in to a TV3 documentary expecting to be enlightened?

  26.  

    Wow. He’s so brave. I can picture it:

    (Incoming! Everybody OK… Leave the dust, it’s more edgy. Let’s go)

    “Here we are in the genocidal heart of Ireland…”

    SFX: 130 mm artillery

    “What the fuck is the camera man doing on the ground. Fire him now. For God’s sake, how can I work in Limerick with clowns who can\t tell the difference between incoming and outgoing.
    What?
    Don’t tell me the kevlar is ruining the lines on my paul smith jacket. Wardrope!”

    It’s a tough job but someone gotta do it.

  27.  

    Barricade, that was head to toe Belstaff, wardrobe of those who believe they are too cool for Paul Smith.

  28.  

    ” Donal McIntyre is a self-aggrandizing bastard in my opinion. I watched about 5 minutes of another “hard-hitting” report from Eastern Europe,”

    “self-aggrandizing bastard” Brilliant.

    I saw that programme, this guy would have you believe he had infiltrated the Russian mob, all I saw was a tosser talking to some low level low life scum bags in a dirty truck stop car park. He carried out the so called clandestine & secret interview under the only lights in the area ??

    You don’t have to go to cities for Knackers, I’m from Laois and in Portlaoise we have a number of areas that are no go so to speak, plenty of Knackers, violence and drugs, maybe Donal McIntyre could drop in sometime.

  29.  

    Makes you think about all the other “hard hitting” reports we see.
    Remember the riots in France, or the French Civil War as many “journalists” described after aiting for their turn to be filmed infront of the burning car. Pretty much everyone I know from Ireland rang me up to see what was happening. Of course it turned out to be completely over blown, but sure ratings are ratings.

  30.  

    c’est. I saw no news coverage on the farmers strike in Paris couple of weeks back.
    They rolled up the Champs proceeded to further roll out bales of hay put tyres on top and set fire to it.
    Thats a demonstration !
    Other than the students ripping up the cobbles of course.

  31.  

    You should never let the truth get in the way of a good story as the editor of the Sun once said.

  32.  

    Just saw the offending program there and to be honest it wasn’t nearly as sensationalised as I expected it to be.These estates are that bad,I have relations living in Moyross and Southill and they are living with this shit everyday,hardworking honest people every last one of them these are unfortunately located people hoping not to make it on to the statistics list.I recently made a visit to st Mary’s park and what I witnessed was something akin to “the wire”,I was shocked at the zombie like appearance of a significant amount of the inhabitantants which brought back the memories of living across from an addiction clinic in Dublin years ago,it is truly truly worrying and it is going to get a hell of a lot worse.
    It is very easy to call all these people scumbags but genuinely a lack of education and resources in these areas are the fault of Leinster house and the ineptitude of local politicians of fighting for this corner of the country but the problem of self serving politicians like the subject of this program are a national one not a Limerick one.
    Mcintyre is trading in tabloid journalism yes,but what I saw last night was all true and sustantiated(murder capital of europe bullshit aside),and it will be very interesting to see the approach to all the other shitholes in the country,ours is unfortunately such a localised and concentrated problem that we will continue to get the worst type of shit pelted at us.
    One thing that doesnt add up though is the fact that it is such a localised and concentrated problem carried out by such a small amount of people that you imagine it would make it that much easier to police.

  33.  

    Excellent post, succinct and those photographs are really good. I felt only disappointment watching that so called documentary. So many inaccuracies in what he presented as fact. Feckin’ ridiculous when it would have been so simple to get the correct information. What was left out of this shameful bit of so called journalism is also baffling.

    What the point behind such a piece of obvious crap is; I do not comprehend.
    It can’t have been just profit?
    Nope, can’t figure the motivation here.

  34.  

    In a recent enough post you wrote about the insidiousness of football infiltrating the holy game of rugby…….you wrote about a british football game you had attended one day after attending a rugby match……..at this football match you said the away fans were caged at one end of the stadium………..this was completely false………there have never been cages in british football and for at least 15yrs previous to your post fences have not been used in british football…………….why the embellishment ?
    I am not seeing the difference between your post and Donal Macintyre’s sensationalism.

  35.  

    Sulaman, I’m not here to defend Bock or anyone else, but you are wrong. I attended one and only one soccer match in my life. Spurs v Coventry at Whiteheart Lane circa early ’90s. I was in a cage. The Coventry fans were in their own cage at one end of the ground and had police escorts to and from the ground. Sad but true.

  36.  

    Sula Man — What I saw in Cardiff was a cage, and if you’re saying there have never been cages in British football, I suggest you consult the survivors of the Hillsborough disaster for their opinion. What was that about false statements?

  37.  

    Ok I have a lot of points to make, mostly in agreement with your article, but I am only going to bring up one – I’m sorry, but how can you say these people are living in poverty? Council houses with very little rent, social welfare payments and child benefit, help with the bills, back to school allowances…. etc. etc. etc.

    There is no such thing as poverty in Ireland with the over generous pay outs from our government.

  38.  

    Some people live in poverty. Some don’t.

  39.  

    Looks like TV3’s tightfisted programme makers have lent themselves to further fabrication. Remember the clip when McIntyre and crew claimed to “come across” a bunch of thugs form Moyross ripping a burnt out car to bits…..? read on.

    “Footage of delinquent “Limerick” children jumping on and ripping apart a car was filmed in Dublin several years ago, it has emerged.
    The offending sequence featured in TV3’s Crime Capitals documentary on Limerick, which is to the subject of two separate complaints to the Broadcasting Complaints Commission in the coming days….”

    source – Limerick Leader

    Seems like the Irish Times has joined in the fun. reporting that “dozens of cars” were burnt in Limerick over the Hallowe’en period. Turns out three vehicles (yes, 3 too many) were torched in the city during the week. Any wonder the Old Lady of d’Olier Street is having trouble doing their sums these days.

  40.  

    Here’s a link to the IT piece. Perhaps we should ask the “journalist” to verify his facts.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1101/breaking11.html

  41.  

    -Norma
    c’est. I saw no news coverage on the farmers strike in Paris couple of weeks back.
    They rolled up the Champs proceeded to further roll out bales of hay put tyres on top and set fire to it.
    Thats a demonstration !
    Other than the students ripping up the cobbles of course.

    Oh yes, but that’s a demonstration. I didn’t even hear about the bit with the tyres on fire. There’s no real coverage of demonstration, except of course to show those dirty hippy anarchists (who invariabley turn out to be postmen and teachers) causing havoc, or groups of masked hudlums (who have on many occasions turned out to be plain clothes police) attacking the security services, just there in their riot gear minding their business.
    Funny but you can send almost as strong a message with what you don’t show as with what you do.

  42.  

    Donal Macintyre is a joke and nothing more than a lazy, cynical excuse for a journalist. Trawling through old file footage and rte newsreel from three years ago, mixing in shots of his smug ass creeping through a backdrop of urban decay with gloomy dramatic soundtrack is neither clever, groundbreaking nor heroic you tool! Limerick last week now Dublin, we have previously seen his ‘expose’ of Glasgow, London, Poland. Newsflash Mac – there are criminals in the world, and some even live in our big cities. You are telling us nothing new and are not part of the solution so.. 
    GET A LIFE!

  43.  

    Colm — Could you please clarify your comment? I already have a life and probably a better one than you. Were you just using that tired old cliche because you couldn’t think of anything better to say?

  44.  

    I’m afraid Bock that murder rate per 100,000 is actually an accepted international standard and does not denote laziness or lack of numeracy on Mr McIntyre’s part. If he were talking about a population of less than 100,000 you could criticise him but he wasn’t so the statistic holds. Unless, that is, you know better than the UN, FBI, An Garda Siochana, the Central Statistics Office, the PSNI and all the other international law agencies and data compilers who use murder rates per 100,000 as a standard.

  45.  

    I’m not going to waste time on that kind of nit-picking. If you want to argue about mathematics and statistics, I’m your very man, but not here. If you want a debate about numeracy, you can hold it somewhere else. This post is about a far broader issue, of slant and spin, and well you know it.

  46.  

    You were the one who brought up numeracy in your article Bock. If you know so much about statistics you should be aware of how murder statistics are compiled and contrasted. You use his lack of numeracy as a means to attack his professional credentials as a journalist but unfortunately you’re wrong. That’s all I’m saying. No need to be so defensive. If you’re going to insult other people you have to be willing to take it on the chin every now and then.

  47.  

    The ratio is a dimensionless figure. It applies with equal validity to a hamlet of 20 people as it does to a city of ten million.

    In precisely the same way, you can drive at a hundred miles an hour without covering a full mile.

    Now please explain where this is wrong.

  48.  

    I’m actually talking about what you wrote in your article. You said: “One murder in a village of 1,000 people would bring the rate there to 100 per 100,000, making it the murder capital of the entire world by this half-witted measure, but numeracy was never a prerequisite to get into journalism in Ireland, and neither, it seems, was logic.”
    That is incorrect as you would not use the same ratio for a population of that size. Because murder rates are so low, it is international best practice to take population sizes of at least 100,000 and set the ratio by murders per 100,000. It would be foolhardy to set a murder ratio in a town of 1,000 people or a village of 100 people and compare it to New York or London or Dublin.
    But it is not incorrect, illogical or innumerate of Mr McIntyre to use this ratio and statistic for a city the size of Limerick. It is a standard that is accepted all over the world and Mr McIntyre is perfectly entitled to use that as a standard measurement. You are wrong to attack him for it. That is why you are wrong.

  49.  

    I have explained it to you once. If you need more elaboration, seek enlightenment elsewhere.

  50.  

    You really don’t like it when people disagree with you. I get the feeling you’re a bit touchy and not willing to listen to reasoned argument. You just want everyone to agree with your righteous indignation and tell you how great you are. You don’t seem to understand that Mr McIntyre is completely correct to use the statistic of a murder rate per 100,000 even though it is a perfectly logical and internationally accepted standard. It amazes me that you are still convinced you are correct. Much the same as in the previous argument I had with you in which you showed a blatant disregard for logic or understanding. I will admit that the concepts in the previous argument were debatable, not that you were capable of grasping them. But in this case there is no debate. You are absolutely wrong and should accept that. You haven’t a leg to stand on.

  51.  

    Attorney, just wondering are you from Limerick or have you ever visited Limerick?

  52.  

    If anyone expects a quiet reception trying to defend this disgraceful hatchet job on our town by a charlatan like McIntyre, they’re mistaken.

    Attorney has no credibility in any case. He has no interest in this case. He’s just a Daily Star hack with an agenda to disrupt, after his master was criticised.

    He made a complete arse of himself on the Colleran thread, and chickened out on a straightforward challenge to act like an adult. Having failed to to acknowledge that challenge, he no longer enjoys any commenting privileges.

    As I said, he has no credibility. Colleran wouldn’t afford that kind of bullshitter space on his pages, and to that extent, I’m in agreement with him.

  53.  

    Bock I think your point isn’t refuted at all by the attorney. You’re correct to say the statistical method used to claim Limerick is the murder capital of Europe is a farse. It’s nit picking saying it’s international best practice using a population with over 100,000. The example of using the ratio per 1,000 shows the logical flaw on using the ratio per 100,000. We are a city with approximately 120,000 people. 7/8 murders does not deserve the title the murder capital of Europe. That’s 7, how minisule is that. Dublin has a much higher number of murders. Even reading this article from 2009, there doesn’t seem to be much common sense involved in differentiating the difference between murders and murder rate per capita..
    http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/dublin-murder-rate-is-one-of-europes-highest-1589449.html

    “The figures show Ireland has a significantly higher murder rate than most European countries, including those with a large organised crime problem, such as Italy, the Netherlands and Spain.”
    “In 2005, there were 65 homicides in Ireland, with 67 the following year. By comparison, there were 755 murders in England and Wales, 109 in Scotland and 23 in Northern Ireland.”

    It’s just ignorance when people cannot understand simple math and statistics and just want to believe what they are told.

    Just wondering, if someone went out and went ‘postal’ as they call it and gunned down 10/15/20 people in one go in Limerick, we’d probably be the murder capital of the world would we? What if it was pleasant fucking ville up to that point.. there’s no common sense in what Attorney says at all. Limerick is a beautiful city, the rugby capital of the county and if he visited here he would not be defending such gutter,sensationalistic journalism that appeals to the unthinking, tabloib reading ignoramuses.

    (sorry for the long comment)

  54.  

    There’s nothing illogical about using the murders per 1000,000 measure. It’s how people distort it that causes the problem.

    As I said already, the Attorney character isn’t here to talk sense.

    Do you know what a troll is, and I don’t mean an ugly monster living under a bridge?

  55.  

    An ugly monster sitting at a computer working for a tabloib newspaper? :)

  56.  

    Wikipedia: a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

    I have decided that Attorney fits that definition.

  57.  

    Would I be wrong in thinking if there was a one off incident.. and a dozen or so people were gunned down in Limerick, would that make us the murder capital of the world then? As you say each murder would increase the rate by 15%..

  58.  

    It’s very easy to manipulate statistics, especially when using facile, meaningless terms like “murder capital”. Where we make a mistake is when we buy into this vacuous tabloid mindset by debating such nonsense.

  59.  

    If you’re admitting there is nothing wrong with the murders per 100,000 measure then I presume you will be retracting your idiotic argument: “One murder in a village of 1,000 people would bring the rate there to 100 per 100,000, making it the murder capital of the entire world by this half-witted measure, but numeracy was never a prerequisite to get into journalism in Ireland, and neither, it seems, was logic.”

    Also, to explain. An ad hominem argument is one by which a person attacks their opponent’s character in order to undermine their argument, without offering anything to counter the actual point or points made. That is exactly what you have done by deciding, wrongly, that I am a ‘hack’ doing Ger Colleran’s dirty work.
    That is a personalised attack which does nothing to counter any of the arguments I have made but is a rather dull-witted attempt to undermine my credibility.
    On the other hand, when you accused me of ad hominem arguments, I was merely putting forward my point and then adding, what I would call, gratuitous insults to my comments. I added them because silly people like you annoy me. There you go, I just did it again. I can’t seem to help myself you pig-brained gobdaw.
    Btw I don’t expect you to publish this but if you’ve read this far I’m happy, you cock headed fuckbag.

    Regards.

  60.  

    Attorney — That says all we need to know about you. Well done, kid. Thank you for showing us exactly what you are.

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