The Green Party in Ireland
Nov 30th, 2009 | By Bock | Category: PoliticsI was watching a programme about the flooding tonight on TV, when John Gormley, leader of the Green Party dismissed comments by Tom Clonan, a former army officer.
Clonan made the point that the government had sent out 140 soldiers when there are 8,000 in barracks who would have been happy to fill sandbags.
Instead of accepting Clonan’s general point about soldiers helping people in trouble, Gormley latched onto the word sandbags, explaining with great authority why sandbags are useless.
They may well be, but it struck me that Clonan has some expertise in this area, and that Gormley, a former language teacher, who has none at all, would do well to shut the fuck up and listen to him instead of dismissing his views out of hand.
After all, if a party is primarily concerned with the environment, you would imagine that its principal spokespeople would have some expertise in the area, wouldn’t you? You’d think that at least some of the people who are so passionate about their subject would have taken the trouble to become expert before lecturing people who know what they’re talking about.
You would surely imagine that people who pronounce with certainty on environmental matters would have some kind of formal training in this complex area.
Would you not?
I had a quick trawl to see what I could find out, and this is what I managed to establish about their backgrounds:
_______________________
TDs
Ciarán Cuffe. Architectural and town planing degrees. Excellent start.
Paul Gogarty. No information given.
John Gormley, party leader. Language teacher.
Eamon Ryan. Commerce graduate. Former travel agent.
Trevor Sargent. Teacher.
Mary White. Hill walker, linguist and organic grower.
Senators
Deirdre deBurca, psychologist. Trained as primary schoolteacher.
Dan Boyle. Studied business and child care. Degrees unknown.
So there you have it.
These are the people protecting the Irish people from the great environmental threats, debating the issues with the experts, arguing with experienced practitioners and deciding the policy that will protect all of us from future environmental catastrophes.
An architect, two teachers, a travel agent, a hill walker, a psychologist and a man who once studied child care for a while before he got sick of it
Thank God we’re in safe hands.
Bock this is just between the two of us. I would never admit to watching “ Pat the Plank” either. However I have some relatives , refugees from the Liffey , breaching it’s banks ,over . I don’t know for how long.
(they have found the wine hoard)
The Green’s have laid with dogs and come out with fleas,
The show was bloody awful . Shouting and venting anger. Even if there is an answer none was allowed. More shouting “what about ME”. A feral cat could have had more command of the proceedings.
Spot on, Bock. They must immediately enlist a hairdresser if they are to gain any credibility.
The Green Party are the most pointless and useless shower of gobshites that exist in this country today…….They insist on trotting out Dan Boyle at every opportunity, remember that idiot has failed to get elected in the last two general elections. So even though he was rejected by the electorate they still force him upon us. Why does the establishment in this country insist on have the Seanad as a refuse for these failed politicians? Jobs for the boys?
Bock, all the above are responsible for pushing NAMA to aid developers, bank bondholders and FF buddies. All because Gormely and his cabal can get to swan around in their ministerial mercs or Lexus hybrids or whatever the fuck they get ferried around in these days.
They used to represent the closest thing we had to a “clean hands” party in this country, but ditched it at the first whiff of Berties Brown envelope. Fuck em.
If Clonan was all that he would be sitting in serge with chicken guts on his shoulder. And I have to wonder why he is not living in South Africa on his half pay.
But in all fairness now, Gormless was a bit of a staked goat last night. And on the political side who else could have gone on, Mansergh, no ones fool that one, South Tipp and all . Would have survived as he is doing his bit for Clonmel. And these days being a Prod would be a plus. So in the counties under water there is not a FFer that would not be gutted like a iasc from his arse to his gullet. But there is no way FF could have wheeled out someone from Wexford either. It would have smacked of cowardice.
Gary; Peoples anger and fear was palpable last night on Frontline, people talking over each other was understandable as Tom Clonan laid out the hard facts and practicle solutions while FF’s puppet Gormless Gormley sat there with that infuriating smug grimace announcing his “plan” for “flood defences”.
Surely it is only natural for those people, whos homes and livlihoods have been decimated to boil over in the only forum they have access to and ask what they asked ?
That woman from Ennis who has temporary lodging in the West County with a CF child is a terrifying living nightmare.
That asinine smug caricature of a CC from Monaghan is an example of why from the County Councils up we are in a state of emergency which is undeclared because Brian Cowan now has the planks from the fence he is sitting on so embedded in his arse that he resorts to sending the smug bullshitter Gormley out as his mouthpiece.
The army need to be deployed in large numbers, and when the actual floods recede we are left to face the very real decimation of communities in towns and country, people have had enough but survival has superseded anger.
I live 600 ft above sea level so I would’nt expect to flood even under exceptional weather conditions, I have never seen what I have seen in the past 10 days, a small river running past my door, how could that be ? Its simple, people can do what they fucking like in this country provided they have the right County Councillor on their case, All zoning firstly goes through the local authority and from there to the inept planners who are led every step of the way by the CC’s , So what is ok about this country right now ? Nothing except for the decent people willing to help their neighbour, We are in no uncertain terms Leaderless, So if someone asks ” What about me ” ? It’s a very real and frightening question and there will be no answer.
In fairness there are 2 sides to this. I would guess there are many people out there roaring at the government for not giving them enough help, or a new house or whatever, who would have gone spare if the planners had denied them permission to build their house on the basis of flood risk. Its a bit ironic that the one party who has always stood against planning corruption, which is in large part responsible for the flood damage as well as so much else, are now getting the blame. From people who have voted for the instigators of same corruption time, after time, after time (I’m assuming same peple are representative of the electorate at large). I didnt see Frontline last night, but I believe the Green party should be way, way down the list in terms of blame.
Its very sad to see the ghost of John Gormley drowning, sinking slowly under the floods into the abyss. Like the PDs and all FFs former groupies all he`ll be left with is his ministerial pension. How bad John?
@ norma. also there is the situation as in Limerick where there is an anomaly between the town and the county. This is a situation which pre-dates the state.
It has been known since the 1840 Survey of Ireland the levels and what is liable to flood. It is marked on the bloody map. But you over lay the current OS map of any town which should have your basic hourglass and you will find the losenge with the long to the river. But while this may have worked in the town the county may have looked at things differently.
For instance what changed in Clonmel. well very very very little, they put in a treatment plant down-river of the town. They put in walls where there were open quays.
And with the best will in the world what they were on about last night re, the Suck . Well I for one would prefer the water to be there or in the farmers fields that putting the Dams on the lower Shannon under pressure.
In complete fairness there is no time or space to play a “blame game” with anything going on in Ireland presently, What it’s about is taking responsibility.
The Green party were’nt 5 mins into power when Gormley was bleating on about banning certain types of “flushing toilets” ! For fucks sake when everyone could see this Country was going down the toilets, He and his fellow Greens may have shouted from the rooftops but they did NOTHING other than bask in the glory of their bedfellows, and Yes they had the opportunity to stand up and be counted.
He sat there last night spouting his mantra while not offering one single morsel of practicle help for NOW, people who are homeless NOW don’t care what the Greens future plans are, and it’s irrelevant because I don’t believe the Greens will ever again have an opportunity to be in power, They had their chance, it’s gone.
More than any other party, The Greens had the best opportunity to show some backbone, They did’nt.
Many people have tried to fight planning corruption, There are’nt many single application houses on flood plains, we are talking big development such as “The Waterways” in Kildare, Where the developer is probably now lying in the comfort of NAMA with his 20 million debt , worthless housing and homeless people who are only now aware of “buyer beware”
I hate to use the reference yet again but in France with it’s minefield of bureauocracy, one cannot buy or build a house without extensive research and signing of a legal document revealing details of potential natural disaster such as flooding, or if any insurance claims were made on said properties regarding flooding etc, In the event of the above the vendor of land or property is responsible and open to litigation.
As pointed out in the post, these people are qualified for nothing in regard to running a country, they have now proved this.
My advice for John Gormley…………pick up the phone to those in the know, ask for help, admit you are lost.
Will NAMA pick up the tab for this ?
Last years floods which were nothing compared to now, cost insurance companies 98 million, What will be the payout this time ? offer of 10 mil from Cowan !
A property that cannot be insured has no value, so back to NAMA how many properties with zero value ? And how much fallout from Dubai will be encapsulated ?
Fucking unreal – inevitable though, don’t you think?
Ah Norma, this I’m not here to do a Pro Caelio with you or anyone. We all know what Gormless was up to last night. The question is are we any nearer, clearer or drier.
Put simply, again, his was the wrong body for that debate. But politically, there was none better. Norma and Bock, who of the entire cohort of Munster Ho -it will happen- did you want to field that debate.
I don’t give a rat’s arse who fields a debate on behalf of this dismal government.
Gormley had nothing to offer the discussion and there’s still no help on the ground for people who had to evacuate their homes.
Norma not alone do I understand the anger and fear, it is currently living with us. The loss of photographs, furniture that has been in the family for generations but lying in six foot of sewage now has to be scrapped. I feel for all the people in Limerick, Cork , Galway etc. The Frontline show was a disgrace a shouting match that would have them barred from there local pub.
The real problem is the floods will almost certainly be with us for the rest of our lives. We must do something about them now. Pat “the plank” managed to make one relevant point . Naming the flooded areas
the waterways , river street. Etc. If one is living in a river mouth in summer fine! In winter it might be time to move. If one is living in a tent.
Bock the only solution to this in my opinion is to demolish the houses, apartments, homes, built in bogs, swamps, river deltas etc. the level of compensation would cripple the taxpayer out of existence. This is yet another example. If one were needed,. of the filth that this incompetent cretin Government has backed up at our expense. The “developers, builders” Bankers etc. It serves Ireland right. “we get the Government we deserve “
Was interested to hear Fleming from the Met Office on radio this morning. When pushed rather than opt for ‘just a run of bad weather’ he said that the evidence pointed to a change in climate.
I have come across a few ‘climate change deniers’ here. Do you think your case has been weakened any bit by the last few weeks?
I’m personally inclined to think climate change is a reality, but the term “deniers” has other, darker resonances. Some people dispute climate change because they don’t find the scientific evidence compelling. Others dispute it for more sinister reasons. One way or the other, however, climate change is not an article of faith.
Well, Bock, unless the slices on both the River and the Cut are opened, thereby landing vast numbers of Limerick persons well into the Atlantic. What the hell could be done. Gobshites in the IFA whining about drainage and sandbars, displays a distinct selfishness of those down stream. This for Limerick.
With Cork, what earthly difference would it have made. Army or no army, Dam on the Lee or no dam. 90cm on water was pissed on the western edge of the Lee catchment for a day.
The Suir at Clonmel, well it was not half a fucking annoying for us down here as not being able to cast a line all through the Summer. While Gort, as Sweary is in Cork who cares. She thinks that there is lots of woods and I see little reason why she cannot be accommodated.
But joking aside, the solving of the problems which happened over the last few weeks may well be in the hands of Clonans former Brothers and their ability to lay cutting charges. But it sure as hell was not in their ability to fill sandbags. Further, given his 8000 personnel blundering about filling sand into bags. If using the UK figures from the MoD, you will need another 16000 in supply.
Im a just waiting on the porch in me rocking chair,whittling on a stick,me jug o hooch by my side,scatter gun a loaded,hound dog a bristling….bring them toJabba..Bring them to Jabba…
Fair point about the use of the word ‘deniers’. I will desist in future.
Vincent; I’m sure Cicero would find many fascinating characters here at the min, However, I have little knowledge of the waterways but I’m a huge respecter of nature because it always win’s in the end, I have seen many changes in my own area.
Forestry, which apparantly is supposed to be supported by planning restrictions, I have never seen a planning notice for same locally, The massive trenchs excavated to drain for such extensive planting in hilly areas have now become torrential rivers flowing down those hills.
Farmers removing ditches, trees, bushs, ancient gullys to provide strip grazing, again creating huge access for volumes of water onto roads and into houses
So before the IFA get unseated by the “high horse” of their self righteous indignation they might address the actions of their own members. They continually cry out for dredging, they may have a point but the silt and shit coming from these exploits will continually cause the same problem.
All the floods from Athlone have to find an exit and am i wrong in saying that primary exit is via the Shannon to the sea ? Is Limerick the highest risk for extensive flooding ?
Surely there are many factors which have to be addressed to prevent this happening again, And can only be done by creating one Authority for the waterways, So many voices, so little being done.
Now that sewage and slurry is mixing with drinking water the incident of disease will skyrocket, Not one person supposedly qualified for the role of Leaders are up to dealing with the unfolding scenario.
Yes Gormley was hung out to dry last night but he deserved it, in an area where he claims a conscience he was as helpful as hens teeth,
It was mentioned by Vincent that “politically there was none better” So if there was none better than Gormley then “Is this as good as it gets “? The only question any Government Minister has to answer now is “What are you going to do for these people” ? any other question they are not qualified to answer.
Just went on the iwai.ie site to try and educate myself a bit about the waterways.
There is a thread called ” blow up gates in Limerick to help floods ” it’s too technical for me but these people seem to have a lot of knowledge about rivers, locks sluices etc,
Why are’nt we hearing more from them during this time ? or can anyone explain in simple terms what they are talking about ?
I haven’t expressed an opinion on the Shannon flooding. The point of this post is the lack of any expertise among those in government who claim to know more than the rest of us about the environment.
That always bothered me about the so called greens they came across as experts. Expert Wankers.
But Norma, my point is that no one in government could ever answer these questions in the way posed the other night. Nor could Clonan. They had an an engineer, but as usual the presenter gave him very little time.
Then to turn and witter on about some wall.
Most of what people were on about was contradictory, where farmers by the Suck if they received what they wanted then Limerick would be under water.
On Bocks point about experts, that is valid as far as it goes. But as things run, this is not all that difficult in the main only in the detail. Put simply, water in water out. And if it is goin in quicker than it is going out, problem. On the Suir the Lee and the Shannon, the going out was constricted. Gort is way more interesting. And on the Lee and Shannon, had there been some devices for measuring on the upper reaches connected to the Dams and sluices. Something lets be honest, if they can automate a lighthouse, should be easy-peasy.
In all fairness Bock, Eamon Ryan would be better described as a bicycle entrepreneur.
Willie should have been in the hot seat but I bet he refused it.
Surprised you’ve not written on the Shannon flooding. Anyway for the Irish environment the real elephant in the room is the sea level. If I owned any property on or beside the sea I would be hoping to offload it asap. In the meantime I would be watching and recording all data about high tides, especially when they are accentuated by onshore winds.
Conan — I haven’t written about the Shannon flooding because I don’t have time to do sufficient research on the politics, planning policy and hydrology. Maybe in time. Who knows? Sea levels are another matter, and might yet lead us to Mad Max territory.