Dec 172009
 

Danny Foley, a nightclub bouncer in Listowel, Co Kerry, sexually assaulted a 22-year-old girl last year, and was yesterday sentenced to seven years in prison.

So far so good, you might be thinking, until you discover that up to fifty people, predominantly middle-aged and elderly men, formed a single-file line and approached Foley one at a time to sympathise with him as he stood in the dock.  They shook his hand and some of them embraced him.

To do this, they had to pass within a couple of feet of his young victim.

A priest called Seán Sheehy provided character evidence that Foley was always respectful of women and didn’t have an abusive bone in his body.

Now ponder that for a minute.  This girl was found half-naked by police, semi-conscious and injured, yet it doesn’t occur to Seán Sheehy that Danny Foley might be in any way disrespectful or abusive towards women.

The judge told Sheehy, who was among those lining up to shake hands with Foley, that his evidence was lies.  When asked by a reporter if he should have shaken the girl’s hand, the priest replied It didn’t even occur to me.

No indeed.

It helps not one jot that the bishop of Kerry has disowned Sheehy’s actions.  I wish to offer my sympathy to the victim, said Bill Murphy,  and to apologise to her on my own behalf and on behalf of the Diocese of Kerry.

I pay tribute to her courage. I hope what has happened will not undermine the progress that has been made in bringing perpetrators of sexual abuse to justice.

Too late.  The damage is done and Sheehy’s behaviour has already undermined progress.

This Christian priest might as well have spat in the girl’s face.

Think about that, and while you’re at it, think about the logistics of transporting fifty people from Listowel to Tralee where the Circuit Court sits, organising them outside the court and marshalling  them so  that they approach the defendant one at a time, while at the same time sneering at the victim who  sits virtually alone in the court.

Who arranged that?  Did they all go in a bus?  Did they meet up for a drink and a laugh afterwards?  What did they say about the assault victim?  Did they make jokes?  Sexual innuendo?  Probably not.  After all, they were in the company of a holy priest.

Think about the warped mentality that consciously set about blackening this girl’s name to justify the assault.  Think about the perverted outlook on life that could have orchestrated a whispering campaign in North Kerry to make this girl into the guilty party for complaining of the assault instead of keeping quiet about it.  Think about the bar staff in Listowel who refuse to serve this girl in their pubs. Think about the citizens of that little town who pass snide comments in the street.

Don’t they have any daughters of their own?

Don’t they have any moral values?

It isn’t just the men.  I heard a woman of mature years trying to explain on a radio phone-in that we didn’t have all the facts about the case, which I presume is more of the same filthy innuendo, code for saying the dirty slut deserved it.

You see, in this sainted little isle, even when you’re a convicted sex offender like Danny Foley, it isn’t really your fault that the bitch fought back.

Finally, think about the message this sends out to thugs like Foley who think they have the right to assault and mistreat other people, and especially women.

Around fifteen years ago in Duagh, Co Kerry, not too far from Listowel, an individual coincidentally also named Sheehy, raped a woman, Caroline Casey, who was giving him a lift.

A retired community college principal provided a character reference for Sheehy and so did did the parish priest as well as a local vet.   Despite this, Sheehy was convicted by the jury and sentenced to seven years in jail.

Locals in the  village boycotted Caroline Casey and her husband, and a vicious campaign of whispering sprang up, making the victim’s life a hell of isolation and intimidation.

The message is clear.

In our towns of the squinting windows, it’s better to shut up and take it.

And then people wonder how all that clerical child abuse could have happened without anybody opening their mouth.

Well here you have the answer staring you in the face.

__________________

The following email has been sent to every bishop in the country.  If any replies come back, I’ll report them.  Don’t hold your breath.

Following Sean Sheehy’s act of solidarity with a convicted sex offender in Listowel, coming so soon after the publication of the Murphy report and the Ryan report, it seems plain that Catholic clerics have no sense of empathy with women or children, and an impaired understanding of right and wrong.

Therefore, as a group with little to offer in the way of moral example, does it not now make sense for the Catholic hierarchy to commit a significant act of atonement and collectively step down from their role in education?

So far, one reply has been received, from the diocese of Kerry:

Fr Sheehy is a retired priest from an American Diocese who is currently covering for an ill priest in the Diocese of Kerry.  Bishop Murphy of Kerry issued a robust statement yesterday evening, carried on today’s Irish Times, rejecting Fr. Sheehy’s actions and supporting the victim.  I gather that the statement of Bishop Murphy was welcomed as ‘strong’ by the Kerry Rape Crisis Centre.

__________________

UPDATE 18th December

The bishop sacked Seán Sheehy today.

  146 Responses to “Sex Offender A Decent Guy, Priest Tells Court”

Comments (143) Pingbacks (3)
  1.  

    With regard to the priest giving a Character reference. Until very recently, when applying for planning permision you needed to get a letter from a solicitor, Garda or a priest to confirm that you were from the area. It always used to p**ss me off, as a non Catholic, that a priest should have anything to do with planning.
    Or in this case giving a character reference.

  2.  

    That list of upstanding people is starting to look very shaky. Priests. Solicitors. Bankers. Police.

  3.  

    The story of the courtroom scene seemed hard to believe when described on Morning Ireland. What I don’t understand is how it was allowed to happen, was the judge not in the court at the time? I attended a trial at the Central Criminal Court in the spring where a member of the victim’s family was threatened by the judge for smirking at a piece of the defendant’s evidence.

  4.  

    I was wondering about that myself. As far as I can determine, this happened before the judge entered the courtroom, but he should have these people brought before him to explain themselves.

  5.  

    And 50 perverse lunatics queued up to shake his hand. What the fuck is all that about? Small wonder that 95% of the paedophiles are not in the church but in the community at large. Listowel? must be one of the most backward places in Kerry. Do they do honor killings too? I suppose they will stone the woman to death for reporting poor old Danny. Now I know where gang rapes comes from. I suppose they were only telling poor Danny that they didn’t approve of him getting caught! Let me see 50 people and only one of them was a priest there might be some glimmer of hope there.

  6.  

    It pays to always tell the truth…………….. the pay is shite so the victims of abuse find out. Humans in general disgust me 90% of the time.

  7.  

    Only 90%? You’re mellowing.

  8.  

    I don’t think this mentality or attitude is limited to Listowel or Kerry in general. Regrettably it’s likely to be country wide. WOn’t the churches be full again this Sunday in spite of all the facts about the Church being exposed on a daily basis.

  9.  

    Yeah I was shocked for a while, till all the curtain-twitching side made sense and then I was sickened. Apparently Kerry Rape Crisis Centre was of great support to this young woman in getting through the hell of the trial and general local persectution. There is a fundraiser for our local Rape Crisis Centre in the Locke Bar on Sat 9pm. Traditional Music and Storytelling. More here http://www.hellolimerick.ie/eventViewName/2009_12_19/rapecrisis-141209.aspx

  10.  

    BFH — You’re right. It’s everywhere.

    Joanne — There’s an ad for that fundraiser on the front page.

  11.  

    What kind of court preceedings do we have at all in this country, that 50 people can parade up to a defendant in court to offer support. The people of Kerry should be ashamed of that. What an ordeal for the victim. That priest Seán Sheehy should have butted his nose out of affairs that he knows nothing about. I’ve read ‘Danny’s girlfriend Michelle says in her opinion he should not have been convicted, and she says when he returns home from serving his time he should hold his head up high.’ Indeed. She doesn’t say he’s innocent though. Read this bullshit http://www.gavreilly.com/2009/12/17/on-listowel/
    (first thing that came up when I googled it) and what the fuck is an on-off journalist as he describes himself.

  12.  

    Audrey, people should not be ashamed of things they did not do. The people of Kerry is a lot of people. The people of Listowel is a lot of people. Would you consider that the people of Ireland or Europe should be ashamed, and yourself among them? As regards sexual assailants and their supporters, would you be happy for them to be ashamed? I would need more than that from them.

  13.  

    Paudie O’Shea was right… They’re animals down there. The judge in the Kerry Babies case said that the witnesses demonstrated ‘low native cunning “. Just about sums it up.

  14.  

    Said this over on FMC’s this afternoon. We need to find out more Bock, can’t get my head around this.

    Unutterably horrible. Poor women. I hope she has good friends and family who can nurture her now in her hours of need. And God knows ( hasn’t that becoming meaningless) how she will fare in her future in Listowel. Pray ( doubly meaningless) that she doesn’t become another tragic statistic.

    What causes this denial syndrome, this mass sympathy for the attacker ? Forgetting about the shambolic priest, what caused the other 49 people to sympathise with him prior to sentencing. The papers say they were mostly middle-aged men which I can’t fathom ( being a middle-aged man myself). Foley is 34 so it can’t be that they were his peers. Was it a misguided and choreographed show of solidarity for a friend? I haven’t heard anything further today, but heard Tom Dunne speculate this morning that there must be another dimension ( my word ) to this . I can’t imagine what.

    Or is it the appalling vista of a town full of misogynists? Is Listowel misogynistic central of an hateful Ireland and if so, what is causing this hatred towards their sisters, mothers, girlfriends and lovers? Are they threatened that girls are taking something from them, will somehow hurt them or have already hurt them. Do they think girls will kill them ? Are these men in relationships with women? They must be, being middle-aged and all have had mothers, some have daughters, and wives and girlfriends. What can they have been thinking about as they passed her sitting there so vulnerably.

    Small town Ireland does not explain this, nor a whispering village. This is hatred and evil, for which there must be a reason.

    Thinking about this one all day and can’t get a handle on it .

  15.  

    ok, then the people of Kerry should be outraged by it.. ashamed.. whatever you want to call it.. at Danny Foley’s supporters and that priest especially and anyone else that calls into question what this man was convicted of.. What do you need from them Leo?

  16.  

    I heard the interview with Danny Foleys fiancee on radio to-day, to say I was shocked isn’t half enough, It was dispicable.
    I also read in the paper that the Jury were shown CCTV footage of Foley carrying the girl toward the skip.
    It is little wonder that so many sexual assault and rape victims never come forward, Fintan O’Toole said in an interview that the people who elected Martin Ferris and Jackie Healy Rae were questionable in their judgement anyway.
    This is beyond the beyond, BFH is right though when he says it isn’t exclusive to Kerry, That attitude is rife in many many small towns and rural areas, The person who ” blow’s the whistle ” on the like’s of Danny Foley will always be the target of the ignorant and vindictive.
    The priest who shook his hand and supported his character made completly fruitless statements, much like Donal Murray made in his resignation speech, How many times did he say “IF” …..” If I caused pain ” “If I did’nt know what to do ” etc etc, That very small word carries the weight of disowning responsibility, there was no “IF”
    Sniffle; To try to answer your question, There seems to be some unspoken rule of judgement among certain people in small towns and rural areas, it seems to me like the most twisted version of some kind of comradeship, I can’t say I ever really understood it, because you would have to think like them I think to get a handle on it, I had an experience of going against this once, years ago, When I witnessed something so shocking and appalling, I had waded into the middle of it before thinking of anything but to stop it, It opened a huge can of worm’s, I experienced a backlash from the locals that came very close to destroying me, Looking back, I have no regrets at all, I could’nt have turned my back, I’m glad I did what I did but my family and I endured a really horrific time for about two years,
    Their attitude was that what I witnessed and made public was their private business, I was seen as an interloper who did’nt accept the ways of abuse and criminality and how dare i try to prevent this ” man” from
    carring out his extreme abusive acts , It was as if it was some secret code, God given to them to do what they liked ,, It was either their refusal to accept the truth that they had such a monstor living in their midst or their secret approval and twisted admiration for his pure savagery, Even those who I had naively seen as ” friends” were afraid to be seen talking to me, my children were threatened, The school was about 300 yds from our home but i had to drive them there and back, the teacher was reluctant to speak to me, they did unspeakable things to us.
    It certainly made me realise that I should never ever assume that anyone has similar values to myself or to most decent people, Also that “monstors” don’t generally look or act like monstors, and the savagery that lurks within is actually either invisible or acceptable to the people who want to be seen to support them.
    My repeated calls for assistance to the local Garda fell on deaf ears, They repeatedly told me to “move away ” eventually I did but if I was unfortunate enough to see the same incident again I would do exactly the same thing again.
    I feel so sorry for the 22v yr old victim, She may have to move away, I sincerly hope she never regrets her action, and I know she will become very strong in time

  17.  

    This Seán Sheehy cleric is a disgrace to all of us in ministry in the Roman Catholic Church. What is it with these priests? At least the bishop had the guts to disassociate the church from Sheehy’s unconscionable remarks. The priests there in Ireland seem just as obtuse as most of the priests here in the United States. Most of the bishop are just as wanting as the bishops there. It is just too bad we don’t have a bishop the caliber of Dublin’s Archbishop Martin.

    Sister Maureen Paul Turlish
    Victims’ Advocate
    New Castle, Delaware
    maureenpaulturlish@yahoo.com

  18.  

    YUP, All those priest and bishop perverts are all really decent guys. And if you believe that, there’s a bfidge I’d like to sell you. Children and young people were Baptized into this fallen faith and, to their horror, were made to bleed for it, some even died. The absolute worst thing that ever happened to me was being born into the Catholic Church.

  19.  

    kinda weird a preist defending a sex assault convict, but hey its a weird world and gettin weirder every day

    anybody reading this hillbilly blog busted thru the cell wall?

  20.  

    For fucks sake…all ya need is a blind kid with a banjo and your ready to make part 2…

  21.  

    Great ad for Kerry tourism, would you let your daughters visit Listowel or North Kerry?. The silence from the decent but cowardly people of North Kerry is deafening. As for the priest, I work on the basis that the majority of clergymen are self seeking halfwits therefore I am not surprised.

  22.  

    This kind of thing may be countrywide to some extent, but I would say this part of North Kerry must be a blackspot. On hearing this on the radio I was reminded straight away of the Duagh incident which Bock mentions. I can’t think of any other episodes like this happening in Ireland in my memory. Duagh is only a few miles from Listowel, this can’t be a complete coincidence. Conclusion: some of the people in this part of the world are verrryy strange, and make run of the mill rednecks seem like latte sipping metrosexuals.

  23.  

    Anybody hear the interview with the priest. He was asked for his opinion on the morality of the incident. He replied that of course, as a catholic priest, all sexual congress outside the sacrament of marriage was immoral to him.

  24.  

    Just heard the brother of the attacker call on people not to shun what he referred to as the “so-called” victim.

    We all know what that means in the valley of the squinting window, nod and wink. The Cute hoor boy, worth a slap on the backwoods tonight. And they won’t be refused service in the pubs of Listowel as the victim and her family already have.

    Incidentally, looking at the picture of Bouncer Foley on the home page, anyone else think he looks a bit like Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket.

  25.  

    How dare you call us rednecks,

  26.  

    Backhander there are no cowardly people in North Kerry.

  27.  

    Sheehy was quoted on the Irish Times (IT) today as saying; “I really do not accept the verdict of the jury.” Sheehy, according to the IT, also said that the victim didn’t seem to him to be traumatised or particularly nervous – “If the police hadn’t come, would there have been a conviction at all – the sentence was extremely harsh, savage…both were under the influence of alcahol. The sentence is way too harsh.”Meanwhile, Foley’s fiancé is also quoted: “In my opinion whatever was said by that girl was said to be Gospel, and everything that Danny said was rubbished and made out to be lies, and I just don’t believe that to be the case,” she said.Foley’s fiancé added that she would stick by him: “I made a solemn promise to myself on the first day that if one piece of evidence that was produced that could convince me that Danny was guilty of what he was accused of, that I would walk away. And that did not happen.”She said, according to the IT, that she believed that the judge was so harsh on Danny because for whatever reason the conclusion he had come to was that Danny was telling lies all along.

  28.  

    Truly appaling behaviour but sadly in Ireland not a bit surprising.People in Ireland with a sense of right and wrong could legitimately be classed as a minority group.

  29.  

    The gender and age profile of the supporters makes me wonder …who’s Foley’s father, do you think?

    Doesn’t it make you cringe to think of that poor woman, emotionally assaulted by each and every one of those middle-aged men? As it’s almost impossible to get a conviction in sexual assault/rape cases in Ireland, and given the obvious belief of the jury for the survivor, you’d think those men would at least question what went on.

    What they did wasn’t just contempt of court, but of justice, equality and of women.

    May no member of their family ever have to count on them for support in circumstances such as hers.

    Expressions of support for the assault survivor can be sent to ‘krcc@eircom.net’, at the Kerry Rape Crisis Centre.

    As a mother of 2 small girls, who’s vulnerability makes me terrified at times, I’m extremely proud of the survivor for speaking the hard truth, gaining a conviction under enormous pressure and helping to ensure that other victims become survivors.

    I salute her, as a woman to be proud of.
    Le gach meas,
    Charlotte

  30.  

    is there any way we can contact this poor woman and offer support? a letter or postcard or something.. aftedr reading this heartbreaking story i feel moved to offer words of comfort for this brave woman

  31.  

    Yes there is. As Charlotte said in an earlier comment, you can send messages in support of the victim to the Kerry Rape Crisis Centre at krcc@eircom.net.

  32.  

    Well that priest is out of a job now. Just withdrawn from the parish now.

    No loss.

  33.  

    I think the priest is entitled to his opinion.Of what I have read about the case against this man is quite weak.Ok the jury found him quilty.but do you remember the ban garda that said she was assaulted on a couple of occasions and this was found out later to be a lie. Anyway only god will be the judge .I also think the sentence was way to high ,just read this case below and put it in context

    State’s most violent gangland feud started after drug seizure
    In this section »

    [Newspaper article deleted]

    The devils advocate

  34.  

    I think the priest is entitled to his opinion.Of what I have read about the case against this man is quite weak.Ok the jury found him quilty.but do you remember the ban garda that said she was assaulted on a couple of occasions and this was found out later to be a lie. Anyway only god will be the judge .I also think the sentence was way to high ,just read this case below and put it in context

    State’s most violent gangland feud started after drug seizure
    In this section »

    [Newspaper article deleted]

    The devils advocate

  35.  

    Donal. The courage of the victim in this case is to be applauded. However in my book those from her own community who partook in this immoral gaurd of honour for a sex offender are beneath contempt. Maybe the description of them as cowards was too mild. I have yet to hear any elected representatives from the Listowel area condemn the convict or his supporters. This silence to me represents extreme cowardice. I commend the Bishop of Kerry for his remarks and would encourage the good people of Listowel not to be intimidated by the bully boys of North Kerry.

  36.  

    It is very hard to blow any kind of a whistle in Ireland.

    Look at Kennelly’s pre-meditated assault on Nicholas Murphy in the All Ireland.
    Fierce man, Kennelly, wasn’t he, home from Oz and bringing home the family silver.
    Anyone who said he was a thug was told to shut up.
    He is a thug.

    When Eamonn Casey was found out, I was in a local shop and the women in there were all “Poor Bishop Casey. That Murphy one was blackmailing him all of these years. The poor man, he had an awful lot to put up with…”
    I spoke up and said what about the son that Casey denied?
    What about the money that Casey took from Trócaire to keep his secret?
    They looked at me with hatred, they’re probably still bad-mouthing me.

    When a little child told a teacher I know that her Daddy was sexually abusing her, the teacher reported him to the gárdaí. The upshot of that was that the teacher was absolutely destroyed by the locals, as a lying old bitch. The child was removed from the home eventually, but Daddy never suffered one jot. In fact, the poor girl took her own life recently and dozens of people shook that Daddy’s hand at the funeral.

    When a woman I know collected her one year old child from the child minders and found the poor creature’s nappy full of blood (dear Jesus, but it is true), she gave up her job rather than report the child minder ot the husband or son. The mother told me that the child would only be branded by people, and it’s better to try to forget it. She was devastated, don’t get me wrong, but she thought her child at age one would not remember it, and she was doing her a favour by protecting her “reputation”. That child is very disturbed, very. The mother blames herself, but doesn’t know what to do now 12 years on and no proof.

    There are child protection guidelines in our schools, but Bock they’re not really implemented and I’ll tell you why. I have reported a case of neglect in the past to social services and do you know what happened? A social worker called to the house and told them that I had made an allegation of neglect, and how were things going? Fine? OK see ya! Meanwhile, I am the wicked witch of the west! I am ok with that, I would rather protect a child than myself BUT when nothing comes of it, what’s the point? Those guidelines are pointless as they are, they should be mandatory.

    What about the PP I know who is an alcoholic and seems to be always over the limit? He calls to favoured houses, and what do they do? Give him whiskey! Does the local garda bag him? Does he hell! What would people say if someone reported him? The poor man, sure it’s the only comfort he has, and that oul’ bitch wants to take even that away from him! Reminds me of the drink driving debate.

    What about the other day, I saw a 4×4 parked on double yellow lines, the engine running and a CHILD in the back seat! Must’ve been about 2. Jesus, I took out my phone to ring the gardaí, then stopped. It wasn’t much good ringing 999, no-one would get there for an hour. I looked around for a garda. No. In the end, I stood beside the car, so that no-one would drive off with the child at least. After about 5 minutes the mother returned (I admit I thought it would be a careless Dad, but no, sorry Dads). “I just ran into the post office” she said to me.I told her that I was just about to ring the gardaí. She gave me a deadly look, and I gave her one back.
    I was wrong, I should have dialled 999 and given them the number of the 4×4.

    What about Charlie, Lowry, O’ Donoghue, Flynn, Burke, Lawlor, Bertie, McDaid et al – mighty men, sure of course we’ll vote for them again say their constituents!

    We’re a funny lot, us Irish.
    Not very mature.

  37.  

    mairead you forgot to mention beverly flynn

  38.  

    Well put Mairead.
    There are some great writers on Bocktherobber. It gives me hope for the future knowing that there are so many good people out there.

  39.  

    Finbar — You are not an advocate, devil’s or otherwise. You are another person trying to smear the victim’s good name and it reflects poorly on your sense of decency.

    Foley was found guilrty, whatever the priest thinks, and this court case has nothing to do with any other case.

    Do not copy and paste newspaper articles in the comments secion. They will be removed.

  40.  

    ok brock
    Just one last comment before I go out on the town.
    Let those who have not sinned cast the first stone.

  41.  

    Finbar he was captured on CCTV, two cops caught him crouching over her half naked, scratched and bruised body so how you think the case against him is weak is beyond me and you can shove your invisible man in the sky quotation up your hole.

  42.  

    Finbar would you be so blasé if that girl was your sister, girlfriend, niece, etc etc? The guy was convicted of rape, 7 years is a paltry sentence. The people who queued to support Foley should be ashamed. Kerry hasn’t progressed sine Abbeydorney.

  43.  

    According to today’s papers, defence council Mr Whym said that the woman had been brought to the sexual assault unit, where “no evidence of a sexual assault of any kind” had been found, adding that this was what his client was being accused of.

    Foley is appealing the conviction.

  44.  

    it really makes my skin crawl that this guy was a bouncer. How often did he see inebriated females in his line of work? I dread to think of him in any position of power

  45.  

    Finbar — Please don’t quote the Bible at me. I didn’t bring my sick bag.

  46.  

    Finbarr

    It’s obvious that this woman is not your sister or your niece. The guy was caught red handed! He only remembered to carrying “your wan” after his memory was jogged by a little CCTV fottage. What was he doing standing over her administering first aid to “your wan”? He only went for ” a slash” and found “your wan” by the skip! Pity the garda arrived I suppose he was just going to call an ambulance for her. Give us a break you might need to examine why you hate women so much!

  47.  

    Might need to examine? Might need to?

    There’s no Might about it.

    Finbar and the dysfunctional little town he represents need a lot of help to grow up, but it won’t happen.

    Finbar won’t examine anything because that isn’t his agenda. Finbar has left his comments here to smear the victim, as seems to be happening throughout that little town, but I’m hoping he won’t get an easy ride here if he posts any more comments.

    This sort of two-faced side-of -the-mouth innuendo needs to be confronted head-on if this fucked-up country is ever to mature into a modern republic.

  48.  

    Finbar,
    It is very difficult, in Ireland, to get a conviction for sexual assault and/or rape. Very difficult indeed.

    About 1 in 3 sexual assaults or rapes get reported to the Gardai and we have a conviction rate of around 7%. That means that for every 100 people sexually assaulted (approx 14% male and 86% female) about 33 report it. And of those 33 reports, a conviction comes through in 2 cases.

    As it did in this case.

    Given just how difficult it is to get a conviction in these cases, I’d be a little slower to imply that the jury of the defendant’s peers were so far removed from reality that they convicted him without reason. Nor would the judge have allowed it.

    So let’s admit that he was convicted. And we’ll have to assume for the present that he is guilty, given that’s how we do thing ’round here. We have a legal system, albeit flawed, to apply our laws for us. It involves judges, juries etc. Sometimes they do get it wrong. And that’s what the appeals process is for. So until he successfully appeals, he’s presumed guilty. That’s based on the same concept as presuming him innocent prior to conviction.

    As for casting the first stone, I’m absolutely sure that I’ve never sexually assaulted anyone. So I’ll be keeping my stone handy.

  49.  

    A brilliant piece of writing Bock. You echo the thoughts of what the majority of the Country is thinking. I believe that we shouldn’t sit back and accept what happened in front of that poor girl. I know from experience how bloody hard it is to bring a case like this to court. I am still as angry now as I was was when I first heard the story.

    I did tweet about it and also posted it on my StumbleUpon page but as I said on there I don’t have many people listening to what I say [!] So again I’ll ask, If anyone out there has more pulling power then forward this article by Bock. Get that priest to hell out of any active role in Ireland and show the girl in this case and girls in Ireland that if you are unfortunate enough to have this happen to you, you WILL have the support there to help you get justice.

    Here are the links to what I wrote about this case..

    http://twitter.com/nurseyratchet
    http://www.stumbleupon.com/favorites/

    Again I urge people to do something, please don’t just get annoyed in front of the computer, do something. We have to stand up to the backward thinking involved, so often, when it comes to rape in this Country.

  50.  

    Hear fuckin Hear Bock ……it’s gonna take a LOT to change this fucked up country…

  51.  

    All this agreement is starting to worry me. When will the feminist Taliban turn up?

  52.  

    Sorry I would just like to leave one last comment;

    People like Finbar should just be ignored [yep I am aware of the irony this post!]

    Comments like his, that offer no reasonable argument or reason, are just posted to get attention. Don’t feed the ego..he will then crawl off to some other site and post some crap about something else he has no understanding of.

  53.  

    No. People like Finbar should be confronted.

  54.  

    Fair point.

  55.  

    Bock, I hope you don’t mind me using your site to post this link?

    http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=204392248545&ref=mf

  56.  

    Finbar,

    When a person reports a sexual assault to the gardai, they are immediately taken to nearest sexual assault unit and given an extremely thorough, intimidating and often excrutiatingly painful examination…you yourself would not falsely report a rape or sexual assault on your worst enemy if you knew the hell you have to go through after reporting it the gardai, so please do not dismiss this womans claim, for believe me she did not do it lightly. This insidious, creeping rumour-mongering that a lot of rape and sexual assaults reported to the gardai are false is a load of rubbish.

    I have heard that this poor woman has since been shunned by a lot of people in listowel (lower-case on purpose) and that rumours have been put about regarding her reputation.

    Let me say this finbar, I don’t care if that woman was wearing the shortest skirt, the lowest cut top, was drunk as a skunk, had slept with the entire male population of listowel, she STILL did not deserve what happened to her. NOBODY deserves to be raped or sexually assaulted EVEN Danny Foley when he gets to prison.

  57.  

    Elizabeth, well said.
    I don’t care if she walked up and down the streets of Listowel naked every day, tantalising the menfolk (witches, she-devils, temptresses – definitely comes from the priests, that one).
    A man cannot use a woman, and say she was “asking for it”.
    How stupid is that phrase?

    The woman:
    Hello there, would you like to rape me?
    Ah go on!
    Ah, please!

    The man:
    O alright then, but hurry up!

    I don’t know if this poor girl was drunk or not, and I don’t care if she was.
    People are entitled to NOT be raped when they’re drunk.
    Would drunken lads be described as “asking for it”?

  58.  

    The girl’s private life is irrelevant.

  59.  

    The church deliberatly and systematically demonised women, not going to get into all the jargon re Paganism, Catholism etc, But it simply made the masses easier to control and indoctrinate.
    Taking what I read in IT to-day, Most of the people questioned by journalist fell into the Foley camp, Some speculation about the Foleys being Farmers and the victim being from a council estate, whereas that may have some rationale in cities, it has none in rural Ireland, nor is it relevant, on the one hand it’s fantastic that this young brave woman is recieving so much support around the country, But i doubt very much it will save her from having to move, These situations in rural communities become so entrenched for generations, I’m not being negative, I sincerly hope and wish her the just awards for bravery but those people are unlikely to ever leave her alone.
    I have four daughters who I protected with a fierce controlled neurosis, I don’t know what i would have done if that was my daughter, I think the control in the neurosis may have taken a serious nose dive,
    The 50 supporters went to give Foley their support just as the victim was about to read her victims impact statement, That was so timed, planned and orchestrated, I cannot believe the Judge allowed it, 50 people, that takes time.
    I know of an incident where a young boy, about 20 with mental impairment was brutally murdered for his savings, There were six people questioned, eventually three recieved sentences, There was shock, horror, tears dismay and a lot of talk, many many horrific details mulled over, The three people who did not recieve sentences but who lured him in and in whose house the nightmare began, were treated by the local rural community in the area as misfortunes who just were misled by the “bad man from the city”, This boy was left to die on a dark lonely country road, He was profoundly deaf and could’nt speak or cry for help, Its a strange and vicious place this countryside of our’s.

  60.  

    The Wicker Man.

  61.  

    Very apt Bock, The savagery in ” The Field ” which the media are using as comparison does’nt cover the sheer unadulterated hysterical madness shown by the perpetrators camp.
    A strong independent woman in rural Ireland can quickly gain either reputation or a very grudging respect, based on the fear that she is plain crazy , possibly based on that she might tell some arrogant Farmer to fuck himself, Its bordering on mythology, if she does’nt go to mass, She is either Protestant or so sinful she might implode,, if she does’nt go to the pub, then her drinking is so extreme she has to drink at home, If she has male friends, she’s a whore, If everyone does’nt know what exactly she is doing all day everyday, then she is just a cunt..

  62.  

    Finally some decent analysis/commentary on this awful affair. i am from kerry-thankfully the other side of the county-and am soooooooooooo disgusted and appalled at how this poor woman has been treated by all involved. I have nothing but contempt for these people-some of the listowel ‘girls’ aka deluded b**ches quoted in the Irish Times were just sick and tried to smear the victim-what if it was them or their family he assaulted? You also haev to wonder if he did this before. Even worse if you go the facebook support group page there are some links to foley supporter comments and pages-unbelievable and sick stuff from a bunch of illiterate inbred wannabe sex abusers-may they all rot in hell-(and I’m a pretty gentle person!). no wonder the priests got away with it for so long when we treat those who report such crimes like this. Those who supported foley in an open and offensive manner to the victim should be shunned. Am embarassed to be from the same county as these animals. I just hope that poor girl goes on to have a good life-if possible-and foley and his vile ‘supporters’ get what they deserve.

  63.  

    Nice post, Bock, as usual. I would be slow to call this a Kerry phenomenon, as some are. There are two fundamental problems, both of which are widespread. 1) in a small community where people have multiple links to one another, through family, heighbourhood, work, sport, church, etc. – admitting that the person you have experienced as a “nice guy” may also have committed a vile criminal assault puts the whole complex web of relationships at risk. One major difference between Danny Foley and the woman he assaulted, was that he is, by many multiples, better connected than she is – not in a class sense, but in the sense that he has far more numerous local connections than she does. This immediately sets her at a disadvantage, as far more people will be personally shaken up or discomforted by admitting his guilt, than by assuming the slanders against her are true. The only long-term answer to this one is for good people to endeavour always to speak up for the less powerful, to support the voices of the less connected, and to keep pointing out how easy it is for a community to bully the vulnerable.

    2) the age old problem of rape – which is the way that victims are damaged not only by the act itself, but by the many ways in which they continue to encounter a refusal to believe that they have been injured at all, or worse, when they encounter the attitude that they must have caused themselves to be raped. There is a long continuum of possible scenarios between the popular image of rape, which involves an upstanding, morally faultless woman being dragged off somewhere by an obvious brutish thug and assaulted, and the definition of rape that I hold (hopefully along with many others), which is that any act that overturns a person’s own will and desire as to what they wish to do and have done with their bodies, is an assault, pure and simple. But, too many people still do not perceive that a rape has taken place at all, in many instances, because they answer the following question differently than you and I. That question – Is there anything a person can do that takes away that person’s subsequent right to say “no?” (Correct answer is no, in case anyone was wondering). We have all heard the implied – someone was “asking for it,” by drinking, by going out at night, by enjoying laughter and craic, by having indulged their sexual desires at other times and in other places, by dressing in so-called “provocative” ways. In the interviews I’ve heard, especially the one with Mr Foley’s girlfriend, you could hear her just stopping herself from saying this girl gave up her right to say no, by walking out of the club arm in arm with him. Anything done to her after that, she implied, including getting herself bruised and battered, was her choice.

    So, she, along with many others, was giving clear expression to what many people have not stopped believing: that there do exist choices you can make – having a drink, for example – that then take away your right to exercise other choices – such as “not now, not here, not with you”. Unfortunately, she has not yet realised, that with this attitude, she essentially gives rapists and sexual offenders, like her fiance, permission to “punish” victims who wear, say, do the “wrong” thing. She has no awareness of how, by perpetuating this attitude, she herself is part of that “punishment.” Let’s hope she never finds out what that means from the other side. Because this same attitude is the one that prevents her and all of us from being safe.

  64.  

    Really well said, Scotlyn, I agree completely.
    No means no, no matter what went before.

  65.  

    I agree with Finbar!!You can say all you like….the case against him is quite weak.

    If your not from Listowel then you obiously don’t know the girls reputation and when u have a reputation like her’s then is it any wonder people will question it??
    The Irish Times article yesterday where many girls gave Foley a glowing reference!!Why shouldn’t they?the paper wanted their opinion and they obviously doubt the story on him being guilty.they know him,respect him and are loyal to that friendship.
    The sentance was way too high,when people who commit manslaughter can get less that what Mr.Foley got….when u look at it this way…She WASN’T raped!!..her friends said that when leaving the nightclub she wasn’t drunk,she was perfectly ok (which begs the question of whether or not they believe her…all she had in court were a female garda,a rape crisis centre woman and a “friend”…but where were her parents,family and friends????…makes you think,doesn’t it?), she was seen on CCTV footage walking some of the way and he carrying her the rest!!…and while she had no friends and family in court,Mr.Foley,a well respected man in the town,a nice guy,a funny guy who had 50 friends and family in court….
    People should ask themselves: If it was your friend in the docks with two prison gaurds and protested his innocence to the last degree..if u were any good a friend..wouldn’t you be there to support him in his time of need???
    People can say what they like about this case…people will always take the side of the victim…but it’s widely known that there are people out there who have a reputation and just want to see people suffer all the time..its also well known that innocent people do go to prison for crimes they didn’t commit…so put yourselves in his friends shoes,in his families shoes,in his girlfriends shoes..and ask yourselves…what would you do??..cause you wouldn’t really be a friend if at the first sign of trouble,you run to the support of the “victim” and disown your friend!!

  66.  

    This is the kind of horseshit that gets women raped. Reputation my arse. No means no.

    What part of that can you not figure out? You should be ashamed of yourself, Grace.

  67.  

    Bock, I rarely make a serious post on anything but in this case I make an exception. Te kind of horse shit spouted on here by some (Grace et al.) is beyond belief. Firstly Foley was convicted and sentenced in a court of law. Evidence for and against was heard and weighed by the jury. Foley was afforded the right to a defense and to have his character upheld until he was found guilty. Coming on here and destroying a poor girls reputation by evil gossip and innuendo achieves nothing but adding more hurt. Foley’s victim took a brave stance and he was found guilty. He is appealing the decision and let all debate on what did/ did not happen stay within the court room. The kind of “no smoke without……..bull shit” serves nobody any good. Would anybody be as quick to look for “other reasons” if the victim was a young child and Foley was a priest or some person in a position of trust. Foley was trialled and found guilty. Speculating as to how his victim may have been dressed on what her sexual history does not take excuse his actions.

  68.  

    Grace; Could you define your perception of ” Reputation ” because my interpretation of defining a person by “Reputation ” is based on other peoples views, opinions and the perpetration of idle ignorant factless gossipmongering, and that is relevant be it a good or less than good ” reputation”
    Foley was not convicted of “Rape ” he was convicted of ” sexual assault ” to base your judgement on your feelings of acceptance or admiration of D Foley is not supporting a ” genial fellow ” it is depriving yourself of an objectivity of a very serious event which occured in your community, It is not your place or the communities place to pass judgement on either person.
    Out of the entire population of Listowel and it’s environs, really, 50 people, sounds more like a gang, You discredit yourself by counting heads, You discredit yourself as a woman with your insinuations, To use your own metaphor about “shoes on other foot ” take both shoes off and do yourself a favour as a woman and objectivly look at what happened, nobody but nobody deserved to be left lying by a skip half naked and after knowing someone for 9 yrs, referred to as ” your wan” It was a demeaning traumatic and humiliating experience for that young woman, regardless of anyones affibility.
    You are deluding yourself by believing the support issued in that courtroom was for Foleys benefit, That disgraceful show of solidarity took place to illustrate the comradeship of fools against the victim.
    Don’t be fooled into believing it’s all about the perpetator, It’s far more about showing the victim what they are and it’s sick.
    Ask yourself please why he lied, why he did’nt call an ambulance, why he did’nt just put her in a taxi or call someone to take her home, because that is what the affable “funny man ” which you describe would have done.
    Look at the probability of a certain degree of trust existing when somebody know’s somebody for 9 yrs, Look at the probability of that trust being abused and a specific boundary being ignored, Look at the probability of ” nice guys ” doing bad deeds.
    Whatever you think, No is always No at whatever stage of intimicy it is spoken.

  69.  

    Grace, ever heard of the salem witch trials? Google it…makes for interesting reading.

    According to you Grace (and I take it you live in listowel or the surrounding hinterland), this girl had a bit of a “rep” in the town and therefore deserved to be sexually assaulted…so tell me, who is it decides who has a “reputation” and who doesn’t? Does the lord-mayor publish a list every year or something? What if its decided among the “powers that be” in listowel that YOU are getting a bit of a rep around the town…does that mean you are fair game for every horny male in listowel from then on?

    listowel sounds like a dangerous place to live in Grace, If I were you, I’d move.

  70.  

    Grace what kind of a fool are you at all or are you just a mouthpiece for somebody? Listowel logic is far superior to that experienced in any other part of Ireland is what you are saying. Far more nuanced and twisted if I get your drift.

    “The case against him is quite weak…” Is that right? Well ya know what, if you don’t stop this madness you might end up giving poor Danny boy a bit or a reputation!

    Well Grace, why was he found unanimously guilty by a jury of his peers? The jury were only all ejits or what? I suppose, they did not understand the right of a horny male with a few pints on him to wander round the back of a dark car park with “your wan” in his arms. Sure wasn’t Danny boy about to call an ambulance when the cops arrived! It’s all a big misunderstanding and the lies of Danny boy, sure didn’t he set that right on mature recollection after being shown a video recording of himself with “your wan” in his arms. And all them scrapes and the clothes dragged off her sure that can easily be explained just ask any of the sad 50.

  71.  

    People obviously picked me up wrong!!
    I’m not from Listowel by the way…in fact no where near it!!!

    I’m not trying to say that this girl deserved it by the way she dresses or acts,im not in any way saying this….i think this must be a terrible experience for her to go through and trusting men again must be something she is still dealing with,and being banned from the bars and shops in the town is very wrong when she must have frequented them before im guessing!…please believe that i did not mean to offend anyone or the victim!!Please believe that..i would never ever do such a thing,sexual assault is terrible thing for any woman to go through.I’m just going by what is being said in the media but i guess even that can lie right?!!

    I’m merely saying that in case like this…the prepatrators friends take his side..and this display could have happened in any court in ireland!!..I’m merely giving information i have been hearing about this in the papers,and i am in no way saying what these 50 did was right,quite the opposite!!

    I’m just going by what i am hearing about both parties that is all…and im sorry to have offended anybody,i did not intend it to be that way in anyway!!!..i donate whenever i see people collecting for the rape crisis centres and i think they do amazing work in trying to get girls back on track after such terrifying ordeals as this and the support they give is invaluable to the recovery of victims.

    Again,im sorry to have offended anybody!!

  72.  

    Grace — I have only one thing to say to that. Bollocks!

  73.  

    Grace ‘ all she had in court were a female garda,a rape crisis centre woman and a “friend”…but where were her parents,family and friends????…makes you think,doesn’t it?’
    What does it make you think?
    ‘and while she had no friends and family in court,Mr.Foley,a well respected man in the town,a nice guy,a funny guy who had 50 friends and family in court….’ It shouldn’t make a difference if she’s as popular as a pork pie in a synagogue.. what difference does it make.. and Foley could be the fucking pope for all I care.. just because he’s popular – means what? He couldn’t have possible done what he did? I don’t think anyone picked you up wrong dear.

  74.  

    Listen to the interview that this brave woman did with Marian Finucane, before you say another word.
    Among other things, she said she asked her parents and younger sister not to go to the court, because she didn’t want them to hear her shame, as she called it. She was very, very humiliated, and didn’t want her parents hearing it. I can empathise with that.

    Plenty of people are / were “popular”, does that mean that they can do whatever they like?
    All of this lot were popular people:
    Eamonn Casey.
    Charlie Haughey.
    Adolf Hitler.
    Ted Bundy.
    Seán Fitzpatrick.
    Myra Hindley.
    Seán Fortune.
    Charles Manson.

    Psychopaths are very popular people too – very good at fooling people.
    Watch out, don’t be fooled, look for substance.

  75.  

    Mairead; Excellent respose to comments by Grace.
    I was mistaken about the diocese, My daughter falls into a different diocese but I have located all info, incl the ph no and e-mail of the Archbishop, Will be contacting him to-morrow, thanks again.

  76.  

    Hello Grace,
    i feel so sorry for the way those mostly “raving lunatics” on this blog have treated you. I am in total agreement with all you have written. As for what reputation means, well i suggest the people that don’t know the meaning of this, should get out more. I would love to know what it is “Exactly” this Mr Foley has done wrong, What “Exactly” did he do to this lady, not what they think he might have done but EXACTLY what sexual assault act did he carry out. I could not care 2 focks what you guys think of the truthfull letter i have written, and to quote the Green TD in the Dail, “fuck you”, “fuck you”, this decent man will win his appeal, there is no evidence against him, and then we will see how many of you faggots will say how good the justice system is. In the meantime look around your own fucking two bit towns and cities, and your fucking families as well. Fucking wankers.

  77.  

    Have fun in the showers Foley.

  78.  

    ALex G the G is for “Gowel” i think………

  79.  

    Good man Alex. You’ve shown the world what sort of people are supporting Foley.

  80.  

    As expected, none of you answered my question, but went off on the usual rant. Might i suggest to Fox, that by saying he (Foley) has a good time in the showers, then he is showing exactly what reputation means. They say the jails has a reputation for certain things!!. As for the man with his digit pointed upwards, need i say anything to that gobshite, and you Bock, i reckon your input is for attention. Answer the fucking question if you have an answer, and less of the popular line on things. Where would we all be if we had one track minds like yourselves. As i said, look around your own families and neighbourhoods, you don’t have to go to Kerry for what ye all consider wrongs or rights.

  81.  

    The man was convicted of sexual assault. Would you like to re-try the case here?

  82.  

    Danny Foley was convicting of sexually assaulting a young woman.
    Sexual assault can take many forms – look it up in the dictionary.
    I don’t know Danny Foley, I don’t know the young woman, I’m not from Kerry, I wasn’t in the court, I didn’t hear the evidence.
    I know very well that it is possible to convict a person wrongly.
    However, I also know that it is difficult to get a conviction in this country of rape or sexual assault.
    I know that because extensive research was published on this very subject this very month in Ireland.
    The fact that Danny Foley was convicted by a unanimous jury, makes me believe that there was sufficient evidence to convict him of sexual assault.
    I don’t know what form that sexual assault took, because I did not hear the evidence, I was not in court, but it seems that it was serious enough to attract a jail sentence.
    I sincerely hope that Grace was not hurt by retorts to her post here, but what she said could not be left unchallenged.
    The talk of “reputations” is a red herring.
    Reputations can be very misleading. Seán Fitzpatrick had an excellent reputation, until one day we saw that it was built on sand.
    Tiger Woods too has been unveiled recently as something other than he portrayed. Young women are sometimes tainted with a “bad reputation”, but their partners are not, this shows how absurd “reputations” can be.
    Too many of us remember the bad old days when a man could do what he liked to a woman, and no-one said boo. A person cannot sexually assault another person, it is against the law. Danny Foley broke the law and was convicted and sent to jail.
    He now has a reputation as a sex offender, and will be on the sex offender list for life.
    Whatever reputation is being thrown around here about the young woman, Danny Foley’s reputation is in tatters.

  83.  

    Alex,

    Unless you have the Court transcript, no-one would not know the exact nature of the assault that Foley carried out on the young lady.

    You are unclear as to what exactly a sexual assault is so I include a link;

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0032/index.html

    When the gardai completed the investigation a file will have been sent to the D.P.P.

    Only if the D.P.P are satisfied that they have enough evidence to convict will they consider going to trial. So you can feel confident (if you are ever unlucky enough to be a victim of sexual assault or rape) that if you have physical evidence (D.N.A, C.C.T.V ,fingerprints, witnesses’ etc) the D.P.P will proceed with the case however, and this is the bad news, if you are raped or assaulted and have no evidence and so it is a case of “my word against his/hers” then the chances of the case being brought before the courts decreases dramatically. If the complainant has consumed alcohol/drugs then the odds of it ever getting to trial fall again. (unless, as I say, there is strong physical evidence) Therefore you can be assured that the tiny fraction of rape/sexual assault cases that do end with a conviction are extremely thorough and well investigated.

    In short, if a person is convicted of rape or sexual assault in Ireland, then the evidence needed to convict was vast, therefore the chances of them being innocent are small in the extreme.

    And just in case I have not answered your question to your full satisfaction..

    Foley will have entered or touched his victim in her private area, breasts or buttock area (against her will) using a weapon or his digits. As I said I do not know the full facts of exactly what he did (and I would wonder why any right minded person would need to know such invasive detail..) but from what I have read she was left with cuts, scratches and bruising so I would gather from that there was some violence involved.

    A sick assault, and one should think twice about defending it , no matter what loyalties one might have with an area..

  84.  

    What a charmer you are Alex…I’m sure the Foley fella will thank you for representing him in such an eloquent way on this forum. Speaking of reputations…you’ve done quite a lot for your own rep with that post…fair play. The two-bit town I’m from is Dublin…host to your pal Foley as of today I believe. Arbour Hill, lovely place…Foley will feel very at home there.

    By the way, yes, there are a lot of scumbuckets around…not just in listowel, we are not that naive…but I still wouldn’t shake the hand of anyone, family or not if they committed a violent crime against another person.

  85.  

    Alex, you’re calling people on here wankers and faggots and raving lunatics .. and you call Foley a decent man. That doesn’t give Foley much credence as a decent man now does it? What’s considered decent where you come from? Go back to the hole you came out of.

  86.  

    Maybe Alex would like to explain what he means by “Faggots”

  87.  

    Yes, I find it bemusing that alex first complains about “rants” here and then goes on to indiscriminately tell all those posting here to “fuck off,” calls us “faggots” and “fucking wankers” and refers to “your own fucking two bit towns and cities, and your fucking families.”

    There is an incoherent, pathetic anger and aggression here which is, on reflection, perhaps not surprising in one who associates with and publicly defends someone convicted of sexual assault. Alex, I think you really need help – professional help.

    From my own experience, I know how shocking it can be when someone you know is convicted of sexual assault. My feeling towards someone I had regarded as a friend, who was convicted of child-abuse, was one of deep betrayal. I wouldn’t dream of standing up for him in public.

  88.  

    Alex has incorrectly answered the question I posed earlier.
    “If you have a “rep” you have forfeited your right to say no. ” is his answer.
    We need an end to this attitude, and I’m so glad so many here have answered it so resoundingly.

    Nevertheless I agree with him about one thing. No matter what he has done, Mr Foley does not deserve to be assaulted in prison. It would be nice to think such a thing might bring home to him the reality of what he has done, but no, if we protect the right of anyone to say no – anywhere, any time, and in any circumstances, then we must defend his right also. Even being convicted of a heinous crime does not mean you forfeit your right to say no, your right to choose, in concert with other consenting adults, what your body will do and have done to it.

    There are only human rights – and if they are not for everyone, they are not for anyone.

  89.  

    I have read with interest Alex’s comments, and apart from the bad language, the point he is making and which is N.O.T. being answered is, What act , whither sexual or physical did he commit?. All of the answers given, since he posted the original have been very offensive, and have totally missed the point he was trying to make. For my own part, i am siding with Mr Grant. There is something very strange in this case, and it has not come into the open yet, hopefully in the appeal, it will. I would just like to see all this PROVED beyond all reasonable doubt, and so far that most definitely has not been the case.

  90.  

    He was convicted of sexual abuse before a jury in a court of law. Therefore it was proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

  91.  

    I have not been offensive to anyone.
    I feel like offending p glen now though, by pointing to his / her incredible and amazing denial of reality as …… well, I won’t stoop to being offensive.
    This case HAS already been PROVED beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.

  92.  

    p glen and Alex –
    As Bock says – a court of law has returned the definitive answer on the basis of evidence presented and with full opportunity for the consideration of a vigourous defense. The trial has taken place, the verdict was resounding, and public opinion on the matter is utterly superfluous.

    Nevertheless, here is my personal answer to you – anything, and everything Mr Foley did after she said “no” was an assault on her being. Taking her to a skip when she had expressed a desire to go home, removing her clothing when she expressed the desire to remain clothed. Causing her pain and injury, which no one asks for. Revelling in the sense of power over her, and the expectation that his popularity vs her “rep” would dissuade her from seeking justice. Lying about what happened in the most cowardly way, designed to make her look bad. All of this trampled on her will and assaulted her being in the most vicious way.

    And the people who shook hands with him, at that time and in that place joined Mr Foley in assaultin her, by implying that her will to decide what her body would do was insignificant. By asking the question you are asking, and by refusing to see and understand that a person is assaulted by any act that subjects their will to that of another, you partake in the assault on her. Your question is the reason that no one, but particularly no woman and no child, is yet safe to go about their business, whatever it happens to be, in peace. Your question indicates that you consider some people to exist merely to be the toys, playthings, of others. Beware – if you cannot uphold this woman’s right to exercise her own will in her own life, then you cannot claim this right for yourself or for anyone you hold dear.

  93.  

    If D.Foley’s defence team produced thousands of ” Character witnesses ” It would not have detracted from the evidence, in Law reputation means….” The character imputed to a person in the community in which he lives, It is admissable in evidence when he put’s his character in issue, or when such reputation is otherwise part of the issue of the case ”
    Nobody’s reputation or character was on trial, A man was on trial for his actions perpetrated upon another person, Nobody’s opinion was relevant, None of Foley’s supporters witnessed what happened, so again their opinions have no relevance.
    Foley’s supporters are only relevant to him and to each other, They saw in him something they liked and related to, They do not want to believe he commited an act of ” Sexual Assault ” because…..
    1. They think him not capable based on their knowledge of him ?, in reality they just do not know.
    2. He may not have exhibited those tendencies previously, conclusion for them …it’s impossible.
    3. The strong inference made by Grace ( later complete turnaround ? ) and Alex is that the victim seemed to have been mistaken, Yet the case was taken by the DDP do the supporters know it is impossible for a victim of crime to convince a DPP to take a case which does not have merit ?

    Have to refer back to a point made previously by Scotlyn, regarding the victim’s reaction to the “black russian ” curious that, but toxicology was not made public.
    Again I will say, he was found guilty by a jury of his peers, 10 men and 2 women, Thats right ,10 men Alex.

  94.  

    does anyone know why the priest was from castlegregory? seems a long way to go for a reference.

  95.  

    Clare…touching your private parts,buttocks or breasts against your will???!!…You mean to say you’ve never been on a night out where a man has touched your arse “against your will”??..you’d wanna get out more dear!!Theres not a bar in the world,let alone ireland where that doesn’t happen..open your eyes its the 21st century..times changes..it ain’t the dark ages people are living in anymore!!

    Elizabeth…what you should know is that he wasn’t convicted at the time those 50 shook his hand..read the papers dear!!…and i’m sure they still would have as the believe he’s innocent no matter what other’s think!

    Alex…thank you so much for standing up for me!!!..This man may be innocent..i mean any man put themselves in that situation…they’ll panic on the spot believe me!!and innocent people go to prison everyday for crimes they didn’t commit!..thank you again for standing up for me!..i didn’t mean to offend the victim!!

  96.  

    Correction. He was already convicted but not yet sentenced.

    50 people, including a priest, lined up to commiserate with a convicted sex offender.

  97.  

    Correction..they showed support for a friend….would you support a good friend in this situation or would you turn your back because of the reputation you’d get for supporting him???

    They were showing support and belief in him…not commiserating him!!

  98.  

    Their display of triumphalism was a studied insult to the victim and the court.

  99.  

    Fine…but you still didn’t answer my question..

    would you support a friend in that situation or turn your back?? Quit pusstfooting around the question!!

  100.  

    Don’t cross-examine me. The discussion is about what those people did, not about what anyone else would do.

    I don’t know any convicted sex offenders.

  101.  

    I’m not cross examining you….you talk about what those 50 did!!

    But what would you do??Its a simple question in a discussion..just ask yourself that…they obviously believe his innocence and stand by him as loyal friends like any loyal friend would do!!..to them their friend is innocent of all charges and it doesn’t matter if you know convicted sex offenders or not…you’d obviously never run with that scum as their being described when they could be ordinary everyday hard working people like everyone else!

  102.  

    Yes. I talk about what those 50 people actually did, not what someone else might do in a hypothetical situation, but I can tell you this. I would not line up in front of the victim the way they did under any circumstances. They had every opportunity to shake hands with him before the sentencing, before he appeared in court, but they chose to do it in public in order to send a clear message of intimidation to the victim.

    Do you think what they did was right?

  103.  

    Grace…its you who are living in the dark ages if you think its acceptable to be felt up in a club or bar…I socialise in Dublin, sure, blokes come over and chat me up…but if they lay a hand anywhere near my more intimate body parts then I’d be getting them thrown out of the establishment and I’m sure my husband would feel the same way. However, even when I was single I wouldn’t have accepted it…nor would my younger much trendier sister….we don’t work it like that here in Dublin, we’ve got more class than that dear!

    Also Grace…whether he was convicted at the time or not…they shook hands with him AFTER hearing all the evidence and seeing the cctv footage…but even if they hadn’t seen it…they were all very much aware that a very hurt, very traumatised and scared young girl was present, to intimidate her in that way was absolutely inexcusable…come on, we’ve all been educated over and over again on the effects of rape and sexual assault on the victim, to make such a stand in front of her was cold, ignorant and shameful, there is no excuse for it, absolutely none. And the fact that you, another woman are standing up for them, I find absolutely disgusting, and I hope to god you never find yourself in a similar situation. I have worked with victims and I would not wish their experience on the worst ignoramous in the world.

  104.  

    In no uncertain terms do i think what they did was right,and it must have been hurtful to the victim but they obviously wanted to show support for him..thats basically what im saying!..people only always look at a story from one side..

    the age old saying that is still used today “There are 2 sides to every story”

  105.  

    Sorry. That’s unclear to me. Are you saying what they did was right?

  106.  

    No i am NOT saying it was right!

  107.  

    Do you think they were wrong?

  108.  

    So if you are not saying it was right Grace…then what ARE you saying? Do you even know?

  109.  

    Would I show loyalty to a friend who had without the shadow of a doubt dumped the half naked battered and bruised body of a young woman by a skip and was captured by two cops crouching over the body who then denied all of it and would only admit to it when the CCTV footage clearly showed him doing it?

    No.

    Those 50 fuckwits knew of the evidence. They were aware of it and they choose to ignore it.

    That is not loyalty Grace, it is stupidity and I feel sorry for anyone that has friends who would stand by them even when they are wrong because it will end badly like it did for Foley.

  110.  

    Amazing Grace – how sweet the sound
    …of someone furiously back-pedalling when they’ve suddenly copped to the farmyard muck that fell out when they opened their mouth.

    The 50 people shaking hands with a CONVICTED sex offender – at that time and in that place – were expressing their utter contempt of the whole judicial process that protects me and you from the predation of others. They were expressing their contempt for the victim, whom they saw as the thorn in their comfortable backsides, for daring to come forward with her effective evidence, and her water-tight case for justice against their “good old boy.” They were, in effect, in broad daylight, burning a cross on her lawn for being “uppity.” And in doing that, Grace, they were putting me, and you and every other woman in what they consider to be “our place.” They were telling us, “croppy get back.” And Grace – I know you’re not a croppy, even if you appear to think you have no say in whether a stranger lays hands on you uninvited, you just have not given this enough thought yet.

    So, please think. And then think again. And then think one more time…and then open your mouth – maybe something useful might come out.

  111.  

    Alex P & P Glen – The answer to your question that you feel is N.O.T. being answered is, What act , whither sexual or physical did he commit?.

    At the very least, he stripped a young woman half naked without her permission. God only knows what else he did without her permission.

    Grace, I have no problems being supportive of a friend who has made a mistake and is genuinely remorseful. Mr. Foley, has shown absolutely no remorse for his disgraceful behavior that night. He appears to feel he is the victim in this affair. Lets hope his 5 year sentance will give him time to contemplate his actions and come to the realisation that what he did is totally unacceptable. Unfortunately, whilst he is surrounding himself with misguided friends who think he has done nothing wrong he will always see himself as the victim.

  112.  

    “Clare…touching your private parts,buttocks or breasts against your will???!!…You mean to say you’ve never been on a night out where a man has touched your arse “against your will”??..you’d wanna get out more dear!!Theres not a bar in the world,let alone ireland where that doesn’t happen..open your eyes its the 21st century..times changes..it ain’t the dark ages people are living in anymore!!”

    I can’t quite believe what you wrote,

    I don’t know if I should feel sorry for you or laugh at you, This was no brush against someone, this was a sexual assault and on a separate issue if you feel you are a piece of meat that men are allowed to fondle before continuing anything then that is your decision but do not lump us more enlightened, independent, educated and intelligent women in the same bracket as you.

    And before you go off an another insignificant, offensive rant why don’t you try sticking to the topic? This was about a sexual assault on a girl – one that has been proved in a court. I am of the opinion that yourself and the other trickle of supporters you have on here are not even reading the posts properly. Why else would p glen say that no-one had answered alex’s question & were offensive. I was not offensive to anyone, I simply answered the question that was put.

    Grace, I do not normally resort to the levels which you live your life, but for you I will make an exception.

    You are a sad, pathetic girl (if you are even female) and you cannot even see the irony in your posts. You say the girl involved has a reputation? Yet you allow every man in a bar touch YOUR private parts or in your less eloquent words your “arse” I think you will find, Grace, your own reputation is not held in high esteem.

  113.  

    Grace,

    One last point – you said to Elizabeth that they shook his hand before he was convicted. Not true, they shook his hand while he was waiting to be sentenced. He had already been found guilty at that stage.

    And while I am on that matter, it is the prison service who were responsible for allowing that procession of apes to shake Foley’s hand, has anyone heard any comment from them as to why they allowed this?

  114.  

    Hello Grace, if that is your name.

    Your basic points seems to be:
    1. He might not be guilty.
    2. His friends showed him friendship in his hour of need.
    We get that, Grace, you don’t have to keep saying it.
    Most people simply do not agree with you.

    1. He was convicted of a sexual assault – convicted, Grace.
    He is guilty in the eyes of the law.
    If his appeal is successful, he will be innocent in the eyes of the law.
    At the moment, he is guilty.
    2. His friends could have shown their friendship in another way.
    They chose to do it in court, in front of his victim.
    They let the victim know that in their opinion, Foley did nothing wrong.
    That message taken a little further was that in their opinion, Foley could do what he liked to the victim and she should shut up and take it.
    This is just wrong, Grace.

    This discussion has very far-reaching and powerful significance and consequences for you personally, Grace, and for all of us citizens of Ireland.
    You, Grace, feel that it is ok to be pawed and mauled by a man or many men, without your consent.
    Grace, that is not ok.
    Far from being an acceptable part of 2009, as you say, it is in fact more like neanderthal behaviour.
    Many women in Ireland feel that they are powerless when men maul them.
    We, women, have very low esteem.
    You, Grace, seem to have low self-esteem also, as many young women do.
    My genuine advice to you is that you should work on yourself, to increase your self esteem and tell yourself that your body is your own, and no-one has the right to touch you unless you give them permission. Don’t just accept it, say NO. You are not alone, most of us have been there. I’m not trying to insult you at all.

    This is an important discussion for every citizen because we all accept things that we should not.
    We have all been reared with the idea that we have to “put up, and shut up”; know our “place”; take it “like a man”.
    We have seen churches, politicians and bankers do what the hell they like, and get away with it.
    We are maturing as a nation, and are beginning to say stop.
    We need to say it louder and more often.

    The 50 people were wrong to line up and shake a convivted sex offender’s hand in court, in front of the victim.
    WRONG.
    Full stop.
    Anyone defending that action on here or anywhere else is wrong also.

  115.  

    Well said, Mairead!

  116.  

    Alex you obviously cannot read. You’re question as to what Mr Foley did has been answered and he was convicted in a court law for what he did. Was the Jury scum too Alex? You’re the only one ranting and raving.
    ‘Telling an intelligent person like myself, that i don’t understand the feelings of the so called victim, is some cheek. I consider myself above any of you in intelligence, logic, wealth, standing, importance and every other social skill’. ha ha ha. Who told you that? You’re a real charmer Alex.. Are you a good friend of Mr Foley huh?

  117.  

    You seriously think that you are intelligent, Alex g grant?
    What makes you think that, then?

    The lack of logic you display?
    The poor vocabulary you use?
    The insults and curses you throw about?
    The immature writing style?
    The misplaced notion that a real woman would appreciate you or Danny Foley?
    The incorrect assumption that the women on here don’t have men in their lives?
    The unfounded superiority complex you claim?

    If Danny Foley is released from jail after appeal, I will not be apologising to you.
    Why should I? Are you Danny Foley?
    If that happens, though, I will accept the court’s decision.
    I hope Danny Foley will explain what the heck he was doing that night carrying a young woman in his arms to a skip.

  118.  

    Guys, I wouldn’t take anything this guy alex is writing as serious…he’s either some bored teenager trying to wind some people up, or else he’s a bit slow, either way he’s more to be pitied than argued with.

  119.  

    Alex, your being a prat. Kevin Myres has something to say on the double standards of offical Ireland’s selective moral condenmnation today.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-it-almost-seems-that-priests-and-homosexuals-have-changed-places–in-modern-irish-life-1985659.html

  120.  

    Alex; I did answer your question re reputation at comment 95.
    Apart from the content of your delivery, It is extremly difficult to take you seriously due to your lack of intelligent use of language.
    All your questions have been answered, But sadly it is not answers you need.

  121.  

    Grace; At what time do you plan on stepping of the magic turnaround roundabout ? because maybe Alex wants to use it.
    If you think it is acceptable for a ” man to touch your arse ” in a nightclub, is it ok for a man to do the same at work, in the supermarket or walking a dog ? if not why not ?
    Are you alluding to unacceptable behaviour in certain environments or any environment ?

  122.  

    Alex ; You never answered the question what did you mean by ” faggots “

  123.  

    Sadly, i have to say, i have been reading the comments for the past while. It seems the only person generating comment is a. grant, he simply requiresSOMEONE TO WRITE DOWN IN PLAIN ENGLISH, what crime,( sexual assault) Mr Foley committed. Many people, for whatever reason feel they have given that answer, i for one have no idea what sexual assault he committed. Please bear with me, the girl was brought to the sexual assault unit, and no evidence, not one iota of evidence was produced, to show a sexual assault had taken place, her cuts and bruises were not of a sexual nature, this is what i have read in the papers, so like yourselves who have said ye were not in the courtroom, this is what i am going on, as i am sure Grace and Grant are as well. To suggest Guilt is written all over the man is very wrong, very wrong indeed. If any of your own daughters arrived home to you, in the condition that girl was in, ie, very drunk, not able to stand up, disorientated, cuts and bruises, cloths totally dishevilled, i ask you , what would ye think, how would ye feel, how proud would ye be. Maybe Mr Foley is completely guilty, but of what is he guilty, and why would a normal towns people take his side. There is nothing different about this Kerry town, compared to any other town in Ireland, no matter what anyone may think, or may like to think. I can see why some people are angry with A Grant, but i really do genuinely believe that on the evidence i have, from all the media writings, that Foley is innocent. It would be wrong for me to construe anything from the fact he was leaning over a partly naked person. As others have also said, this is my last contribution to this article. We can go on, and on, about this, that, and the other , until the cows come home, but insulting each other helps no one. A very happy christmas to all of you, and i hope none of us overdoes the spirit of what xmas really is.

  124.  

    Sexual Assault is any unwanted sexual contact.

    She said NO.

    If my daughter came home from a night out with cuts and bruises I’d assume that some sort of physical violence had been carried out and I’d be straight down to the Garda Station with her. You ask “How proud would ye be?” I certainly wouldn’t feel any less proud of her because someone has attacked her…would you??? This girl was the VICTIM here….

    This girls parents should feel extremely proud of their daughter for standing up in front of a court full of backwoods hillbillies and naming and shaming a sexual predator.

    To call the people of listowel who refused to serve this girl in a local shop and who intimidated her in court “normal” is quite frankly insulting. If this behaviour is “normal” in Irish towns in 2009 then Irish society still has a long way to go to banish the ignorance that was so prevalent in past decades, the same ignorance which allowed so-called “pillars of the community” priests and teachers to abuse little children.

    Facts:
    1. Foley was found guilty of UNWANTED sexual contact with the victim

    2. The girl was covered in cuts and bruises afterwards.

    3. CCTV footage shows Foley carrying the victim towards the scene of the assault.

    These three facts add up to Foley violently sexually assaulting the victim. For this charge Foley was found guilty.

    Why would any “normal” townspeople take his side you ask….the answer is NO “Normal” townspeople would take his side…an ignorant bunch of imbeciles however…would probably take his side.

    Does that answer all of your questions?

    May I also make reference to your final statement…

    “i hope none of us overdoes the spirit of what xmas really is”

    Um…I hope EVERYONE “overdoes” the spirit of what xmas really is! I think that might be what you mean too….

  125.  

    @ p glen
    “clothes totally dishevilled”

    What do you mean dishevelled? Are you saying they were “dishevilled” after they were put back on having been forcibly dragged from her body. She did not arrive home, she had to be brought home because whatever was in her drink was certainly not just alcohol. She was dragged along the ground! He referred to her as “yer wan” as if she was less than human and she was certainly treated as less than human by Foley “she asked me to ride her” who let his actions speak even louder than his callous words.

    Whether the guilt was written all over his face or not he was found 100% guilty by a jury of his peers. They judged him on the facts, not on his appearance or grotesquely crude language and the judge was in total agreement with their verdict.

    They are not normal towns people they are a backward, shameless and gutless 50 people who’s actions caused shock and dismay all over the country and who’s actions reminded us of all the sexual abusers in reform schools and parishes up and down the country and just why they got away with it for so long.

    They got away with it because of people like yourself telling us, sure a priest would not do that, a bishop would not do that, a nun would not do that. A clean living boy like Danny would not do that. Verdict unanimous, “guilty as charged” now grow up! The two years should not have been suspended and hopefully will not be in the appeal.

  126.  

    Ok.I’ve a few things to say..i did not say it was acceptable for guys to grab your “buttocks” or “private parts” in a bar without your consent..im saying that it happens,people need to deal with that…guys do grab your arse..i didn’t mention private parts..i said:
    “Clare…touching your private parts,buttocks or breasts against your will???!!…You mean to say you’ve never been on a night out where a man has touched your arse “against your will”??”…I said arse with reference to grabbing!! ..it happens when a drunken prick in a bar thinks himself a bit of a stud to the girls around him,and decides “hey i’ll have a go..grab that ass”..and he does…99 times outta 100 girls tell em to “fuck off” i know not nice language for the intelligent people on here!!..but it DOES happen in Ireland today!!I’m not alluding that this behaviour should happen anywhere in any environment but in a bar at 2 in the morning (past bedtime for some of ye)..it happens!!

    “Many women in Ireland feel that they are powerless when men maul them.We, women, have very low esteem.You, Grace, seem to have low self-esteem also, as many young women do.
    My genuine advice to you is that you should work on yourself, to increase your self esteem and tell yourself that your body is your own, and no-one has the right to touch you unless you give them permission. Don’t just accept it, say NO. You are not alone, most of us have been there. I’m not trying to insult you at all”
    —Insult me is what you did whether or not you think you didn’t..saying i have low self esteem..and i should learn my body is my own..firstly,my self esteem is anything but low!!Get a grip girl,you don’t know me..i know my body is my own and shouldn’t be “mauled” by men..and putting “us,women” in the same category as yourself…better start working on your own…and young woman??how do you know im young!!!..say no??…huni,i’ve slapped a guy in bar for touching my ass in a drunken state !!Don’t tell me about knowing my body is my own..my body is my own and I KNOW IT!!.

    “do not lump us more enlightened, independent, educated and intelligent women in the same bracket as you”…very high opinion of yourself don’t you???

    I’m following suit of P Glen and not commenting on this post anymore..it’s gonna be in the papers for a very long time,and like all of you on this..i have my opinion on what i think and you have yours..it nothing to do with the fact that i’m a “low life scum who supports sexual predators” cause i don’t.I’m well educated despite what people might think!!.I just think the evidance is weak..and that’s my thought!!.I’m sorry to have offended anyone but you all seriously need to get off the high horses your sitting on!!!…No matter what those 50 people saw in that court room,they still thought he was innocent…i’m not taking sides..if he did it..the scum should pay,if he didn’t his name should be cleared!!!
    I’m off to have a nice christmas…obviously since finding this site…i will visit cause i like the discussion parts…and i do have my own opinion…..Have a nice christmas Bock!!Thanks for the site..its gr8!!..and to all who replied to my post..whether or not you understand where i’m coming from i don’t mind!We all have our own opinions,it’s the way the world works!!…have a great christmas,enjoy it,and be safe!..and have a great year in 2010!

  127.  

    Grace — You didn’t answer my question. Do you think they were wromg?

  128.  

    Alex — Your comments have been put in moderation for now. When you explain what you mean by “faggots” you will be allowed to comment again.

  129.  

    Grace, you are frequenting the wrong establishments…you should start socialising in places where there are less neanderthal’s and more gentlemen. Any single bloke friends that I have wouldn’t stoop so low…its not their style. Of course I’ve been to places where blokes do go on like that, but I don’t go back, you shouldn’t either.

  130.  

    Grace:

    No matter what those 50 people saw in that court room,they still thought he was innocent…

    No, what those 50 people thought was much more primitive and basic … they thought, “he’s one of us…she’s not.” And they thought, “she’s not important in our community, therefore what is done to her is not important – he is important in our community, so in order to safeguard our community, we’re prepared to overlook it if he does wrong to someone who doesn’t really matter“. They were safeguarding what they considered the “good name” of their community, and prepared to sacrifice other “lesser” beings in order to do so – just like the Catholic Church, just like Sinn Fein. In such circumstances, no evidence would persuade them to give up their prejudices.

    That, fortunately, is why we have courts instead of lynch mobs for the administration of justice. And in those courts, there is a notion – if not always perfectly acted upon – that all are equal before the law. Even you Grace (with your misplaced mysogyny), even you Alex (with your jumped up notions of superiority), even you p glen (with your misplaced understanding of the law that if there’s no spunk there’s no fire). Given that it is so hard to get a conviction in the first place, this case would indicate that the evidence was overwhelming – 10 male jurors and 1 male judge had no problems calling it sexual assault. If you find fault with the verdict, why not check out some law books, and tell us what you think they missed.

  131.  

    There’s an old saying : a man who speaks of his inferiors has none. I think Alex fits the bill fairly neatly.

  132.  

    Nice one.

  133.  

    fr sheehy, spent over 30 years in america. he arrived back to ireland in 2008 and worked as a priest in castlegregory. now castlegregory to listowel is roughly 50 km. how was he qualified to give a character reference for foley?

  134.  

    This may explain the mind set of the Listowel 50, http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/prayer-only-hope-1990124.html. The mind boggles, or does it?

  135.  

    That letter was obviously written by a demented man.

  136.  

    Bock…no need to state the obvious!

  137.  

    Elizabeth, read back over some of the comments….sometime you have to state the obvious!! I know you’re just taking a hand with your comment ;) But I’d say some people need the obvious pointing out to them :(

    You know guys, I actually had a mad dream last night, In my dream, the girl in Listowel was being chased around by a tv crew…My partner reckons I am spending too much time thinking & worrying about this whole case..

    What do you do though, when this case reminds you of your own..mine was heard in Dublin at the Four Courts, Thank God I didn’t have a procession of dirty old men shaking my attacker’s hand…but his family&friends felt intimidating enough..I make no apology for standing up for the girl in Kerry..I hope she gains some strength from all the supportive comments..

    Again, I ask..why has the prison service not explained their decision to allow Foley’s supporter’s to line up and shake his hand?

  138.  

    So sorry for your troubles, Clare. (Hug).

  139.  

    Thanks Mairead.

  140.  

    Elizabeth– I’m afraid it is necessary occasionally to state the obvious.

  141.  

    People that I work with that also worked with “big dan foley” believe he was involved in an incident in a club over ten yrs ago re a girl making allegations re him assaulting her.. whether its true or not ,thats their honest belief and they believe the verdict in this case. I vaguely knew him myself, just remember a big guy wearing tee shirts to show off his muscles, he was known to be more than a bit low in the IQ arena.

  142.  

    Bock, Clare…yes, I suppose given some of the comments here…perhaps it is necessary to state the obvious. Sad that this is the case though.

    Sean, this doesn’t surprise me at all…Foley is just one of many like him.

  143.  

    none of ye know what happend in this case. Danny lied and he got 5years for it. He lied so his girlfriend would not find out he was with another woman. Not the best move for him. Her friends even testified that they were together and who the hell would consider giving oral sex to a person they planned to rape?? He did not rape or sexualy assault her. The 50 people were family and friends showing support to him and his parents and family. The girl was not ment to be in court and they were not stopped by the guards that were at either side of him.

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