Israeli Assassins With Irish Passports

 Posted by on February 25, 2010  Add comments
Feb 252010
 

What do you call somebody who enters another sovereign state under a false passport and murders a man?

Well, in most civilised countries, such a person would be called a terrorist, but not in Israel.  In fact, the Israelis have gone a step further and denied that they had anything to do with the murder of Hamas leader, Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai.

According to Israeli foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman, the Arabs  blame Israel for anything that happens in the Middle East.

He’s right, of course.  Why blame the Israelis, simply because all the terrorists were using names from a database of people who had passed through Israeli airports?  Why blame the Israelis just because Hamas is a Palestinian resistance organisation and the Israelis just happen to be imprisoning Palestinians in the Gaza concentration camp?  Why blame the Israelis, just because Mossad is the only organisation in the region with the ability to mount such an operation?

You know what?

He’s right.

It was probably the Fijians who whacked Mahmoud al-Mabhouh.  Or the Amish.  Or maybe the Haitians.

Every one of them had more reason to kill a Hamas leader than the Israelis did and every one of them was capable of forging EU passports using names on an Israeli intelligence list, and delivering highly-trained assassins in a coordinated operation.

Right.

As Judge Judy says, Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

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  60 Responses to “Israeli Assassins With Irish Passports”

Comments (60)
  1.  

    Do they think people are stupid? As Judge Judy also said, beauty fades dumb is forever.

  2.  

    “Hamas is a Palestinian resistance organisation.”
    Well, in most civilised countries, such an organisation would be called a terrorist organisation.

  3.  

    This guy doesn’t do irony :-
    Madam, – We should not allow the almost certain misuse of Irish passports by Mossad to cloud our memories of Israel’s more heinous crimes of state terror. Let us not forget that Israel unashamedly killed almost 1,400 people, including over 300 children, in its military onslaught on Gaza last year.

    The latest Israeli action is only part of its continued subjugation of the Palestinian people and its colonisation of their lands which makes more unlikely the possibility of a future contiguous Palestinian state.

    The passport issue, however, is further proof of the need for the international community to now isolate and boycott, economically and diplomatically, the rogue Israeli state. Minister for Foreign Affairs, Micheál Martin should lead the way in censuring Israel. There is only one thing he should give to the Israeli ambassador: ­ a one-way airline ticket to Tel Aviv. – Yours, etc,

    JIM ROCHE,

    PRO Steering Committee,

    Irish Anti-War Movement,

    PO Box 9260,

    Dublin 1.

    Anti War movement ! Jebus.. doesn’t anyone bother checking up on Hamas ?

  4.  

    You were happy enough with the killing of all those civilians in Gaza then, were you?

  5.  

    If that’s aimed at me , no. But it takes two to tango. Hamas gibbering about infidels doesn’t fill me with confidence that they’re likely to give up on their lucrative smuggling enterprises. Sound familiar ?

  6.  

    Lapsedmethodist ; Why do you suppose the smuggling began ?
    Not the first time Irish passports used as above e.g. 1986 Iran failed hostage rescue, Irish passports used by US special forces.
    Irish, Swiss and Swedish passports most wanted on ” black market “

  7.  

    Lapsedmethodist — It was a question to you.

    As far as I know, Hamas haven’t managed to imprison, blockade and bombard an entire people. To the best of my knowledge, they don’t possess tanks, ships or F-16s, but perhaps I’m wrong and perhaps you can point out those military assets I overlooked.

    Personally, I’d be delighted if Hamas would stop firing rockets, and also if the Israelis would demolish their walls and relieve the most densely-populated concentration camp in the world, but there’s little equivalence between the violence inflicted. You see, Israel has access to overwhelming force, and unfortunately, there are civilians in their firing line.

    As regards your comment about taking two to tango, that’s true, but I don’t recall the Palestinians invading and dispossessing the Israelis. Can you provide details of how the Palestinians initiated this tango?

  8.  

    The Israelis didn’t invade: there has been a timeless presence of Jews in the area. Until the current grubby Israeli practice of accepting ” quarter Jews ” from the former USSR , the largest grouping was the 850,000 who were pushed out of the former Ottoman Empire countries on the formation of Israel. Granted, the formation of Israel was an imperialist imposition, but that’s history now and nothing can reverse it. As long as the best the Gazans can come up with is Hamas and its Charter , then they’re going to suffer. Please don’t forget that Hamas was formed with the express purpose of fighting the Oslo Accords. They’re not some kind of resistance of last resort organisation.
    If you read their Charter you’ll find their list of enemies includes the Lions Clubs, Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and that old favourite the Protocols of the Elders of Zion used as a template for their world view. They make the Orange Order look progressive. I’ve worked the middle East all my life off and on… I’ve even worked for Palestinian construction companies. Believe me, these zealots are loathed.
    And there’s no justification for the use of Irish passports other that of expediency; and expediency is the currency of the Middle East.

  9.  

    lapsedmethodist I am afraid that reads a little like “ some of my best friends are Palestinians”
    How can you forget recent Israeli atrocities and yet recall the origins of the so called state?
    Even some Israelis are appalled with the actions of the IDF . One F16 has more firepower than all of Hamas put together their rockets are little more than fireworks. Our minister managed to slither through the Egyptian border and it seems shall lobby for mercy for the people of Gaza. Perhaps your visits to the region were to repair Israeli “defences action” you can no longer do this. The land of Israel was given by God to the tribes of Israel and whoever were or are there are due for annihilation by the will of God.

  10.  

    @lapsedmethodist “As long as the best the Gazans can come up with is Hamas”

    Such naivety. The Israelis systematically destroy moderate Palestinian opposition, by arrests or placement of agent provocateurs within their ranks. It is in the Israeli interests and their policy of slow genocide that Palestinians are driven into the arms of extremists, who the lsraelis can then portray as intransigent.

    Israel as a state is massively subsidised by the US and the EU. It’s independent indigenous economy consists largely of the manufacture of military hardware and instruments of repression. It’s holding of nuclear arms destabilises the whole region. Mossad will continue to act with impunity until this rogue state is reigned in.

    If anyone is interested in progressing peace in the Middle East they can support the Irish Palestinian Solidarity Campaign’s boycott of Israeli goods and work for the withdrawal of EU subsidies.

  11.  

    Irish Palestinian Solidarity Campaigns. In case Google isn’t your friend.

  12.  

    Raymond Deane (probably the best Irish composer in the world) has written about
    how anti-Zionist Jews are being attacked by apologists of Israeli government intransigence (including a strange bunch of Germans know as the anti-Germans) in Europe.

    This indicates how worried the extremists that have controlled the Israeli state for many decades are about the possibility of withdrawal of preferential treatment by the EU as they slowly loose the propaganda war.

  13.  

    Although I can never condone the killing of a man, although I disagree the “evidence” so far does tend to point to Mossad, because Fatah is also being pointed to as a party to this assassination as well.

    But, I am glad they decided to do their “work” this way, where nobody got hurt but the target …and let us not ignore that the person they targeted was also a terrorist, who had admitted to his involvement in the abduction and murder of two Israeli soldiers in the past. And he wasn’t on holiday in Dubai – he was there to negotiate an arms deal (or so he thought anyway, if you don’t believe this was a setup by his own people) Guess who those munitions were going to be fired at?

    A lot better than sending a gunship somewhere to level a block in the Gaza Strip and kill a bunch of innocent kids.

    Let me put it this way; if a group of British and US or Russian operatives had used fake passports to infiltrate their way into Somalia and asassinate a pirate warlord who had kidnapped and murdered someone in the merchant navy and was in the process of buying weapons to cause more mayhem.
    It would either struggle to make page 4 of the papers, or we’d be talking about how awesome they were. Even though they represented countries that were part of a machine that has systematically raped Africa for years and made the likes of Somalia what it is today.

    But because it’s Israel, it’s all over the place, they’re the bad guys, etc. Seems to me that in the public’s mind, anything they do to defend their own sovereignty is wrong. Certainly that’s the way our media here are portraying it. To me the passport issue is a red herring, being used as an excuse to say “Israel = Mossad = Bad”

    Terrorism is a very pejorative term, and I personally think you’re using it in the wrong sense in this instance.
    There is no internationally agreed definition for the word “Terrorist”, excepting that it involves an act of violence to further an agenda. But by that definition, everyone who fought “ze germans” was a terrorist. (I know, I know. Nearly crashed into Godwin’s law there, sorry)

    That’s my 2c anyway.

  14.  

    Lapsedmethhodist — Your reply to me was selective and avoided the issue.

    I asked you to show how the Palestinians caused this. Can you?

  15.  

    -Steve
    First off, if it was Mossad then it is nothing like going into Somalia to get Somali pirates. Here Mossad went into another sovereign country, using the passports of yet other sovereign nations and murdered/assassinated someone. They didn’t go into Palestine for him. If MI6 assassinated a Somali pirate in Dublin would it be the same?
    In this case that someone was a member of Hamas, a distasteful organisation, but none the less one that was elected by the Palestinian people. You’re assuming, though I’d tend to agree with the reasoning, that he was their on an arms buy. By the same reasoning any Israeli person who procures arms and military equipment from the US or anywhere else is a legitamit target, ’cause guess who those bullets are fired at. And however fundamentalist Hamas might be, they don’t preach western enlightenment and civilisation like Israel do, thus the level of hypocracy is less.

    As regards terrorism, it’s just a method of warfare, not a group of people. Anybody can be a terrorist the minute they use terror as a tactic. So if we want to label one group or another as being ‘terrorists’, then we must measure which group is the most terrorised.

  16.  

    For the record.Mossad wouldn’t have to forge my passport, all they’d have to do is write to me and I’d lend it to them – on condition that they target anyone from Hamas, a group sworn to a campaign of genocide againt the state of Israel.

  17.  

    -Second’s Out
    Why would they swear a campaign of genocide against the state of Israel?

  18.  

    Because they refuse to live in peace with their neighbours C’est – because they are wedded to a culture of death and destruction via jihad. Take a look at their charter.

    http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm

  19.  

    @C’est

    Yes I see where you are coming from but then again if the Irish government were to admit a known international terrorist into this country (Edit: and yes that includes IRA folk who we know are already here) then, no, I would not have a problem if someone came in and ruined his day, as long as nobody else was harmed

    As regards the use of other nation’s passports – I really wish people would get over this.
    Yes, it is wrong, but it’s not that big a deal, really.
    The affected passport numbers will be flagged, new ones issued, end of story.
    This whole “asassins stole people’s identities” line taken by the media is pure bull. Your passport is not your identity. It’s simply one of *many* documents that can be used to prove your identity. But the UK ( and Irish) media have taken this and run with it because it plays beautifully into the “you must have an id card” arena.

    Don’t get me wrong though; I’m not defending Israel per se. Some of what they have done in past military campaigns is, I agree, absolute terrorism and the people responsible for that should burn. And, they do come across as a bunch of arrogant fuckers, but that’s just my opinion.

    But, what Hamas does is 100% terrorism because Hamas is buying weapons for the sole purpose of attacking Israel, as they have a public agenda to destroy Israel as a nation, and that includes its people.
    An Israeli buying weapons for its army is buying them for the purpose of defending their country. They’ll use them to attack any agressor, including Palestine, Syria, Egypt, etc.

    The fact that poor decisions get made and some asshole Israeli general decides to bombard a civilian area with those weapons is another issue, since that is NOT the intended purpose of their weapons.

    I was just trying to highlight that, no matter what they do to defend their country, somebody will rag on them.
    Blow up 100 civilians to stop an enemy of their state =>they’re the bad guy ( I agree)
    “Cleanly” assassinate an enemy of the state and save who knows how many lives as a result =>they’re the bad guy (what would happen if they tried to go into Palestine to do this? A lot of spilled blood, I think)

    So can anyone tell me what they have to do to be the good guy in this situation in such a way that doesn’t involve them packing up and fucking off out of Israel?

    Finally, the target was in Dubai, a city-state playground for the rich, with self appointed leaders and a very poor human rights record. Why did they even let this guy in? Could it be because they don’t actually give a fuck about anything but money? I don’t even want to open up the can of worms that is Dubai’s (and other places like it) right to even exist, so it’s not really like MI6 coming to Dublin anyway – we actually got to elect our government and can choose to un-elect them next time round. Also we don’t pay lip-service to international ethical standards whilst at the same time treating our foreign workforce as sub-humans. Oh, wait a minute…..

  20.  

    Steve — i use the word “terrorism” consciously because it’s one of Israel’s favourite terms to describe anyone who either (a) opposes their policies, or (b) has been bombed by them.

  21.  

    -Second’s Out
    “Because they refuse to live in peace with their neighbours …because they are wedded to a culture of death and destruction via jihad.”
    Now take out the mention of Jihad and you could just as easily be talking about Israel. But then Israel didn’t but it in their official charter I suppose. Mind you, I doubt the Fianna Fail charter mentions anything about sinking Ireland, Atlantis like, into a sea of debt. It’s what they’ll do though.

    -Steve
    The issue of passports isn’t identity theft, it is about illegal actions by a sovereign state. If they had carried out the attack wearing Irish army uniforms it would be the same. Also they conducted their operation (yet again) in a third party country. Perhaps he was there for an arms buy though no proof has been put forward yet and a man was summarily executed. Perhaps he was just a fundamentalist killer who was “clear and present danger” to the lives of Israeli citizens, but then there’s no proof of that either.

    What makes you think that Hamas were buy arms solely for offensive use against Israelis, yet Israel only has arms for defencive purposes? I’d imagine Hamas would attack Eygptian forces or Syrian forces if they acted to Palestinians the way Israeli forces did, and given the recent history of the area, who has shown themselves to be the greater agressor,? Who is the most ‘terrorised’?

  22.  

    -Bock – point taken, and I’m not defending any of the terrorist acts that Israel have perpetrated in the past. I am just trying to make the point that no matter how they handle these things, they always get roasted.

    -C’est – do you really believe that there is a question mark over the dead man’s motives and intentions? He had already admitted that he took part in an operation where, dressed as a civilian, he was part of a team that abducted and murdered two Israeli soldiers. That’s illegal according to any international rule of war and by the standards we’re using here, it’s terrorism.
    There is no question mark over the dead man’s motives. Hamas are quoted as saying that he had a “continuous role in supporting his brothers in the resistance inside the occupied homeland”

    Yes sure Palestine will use its army to defend against any agressor, but who is going to attack them?
    Syria and Egypt won’t attack Palestine, they’re all looking to get rid of Israel.
    Palestine doesn’t have any mandate to destroy anyone apart from Israel so my point about the weapons still stands.

    Now, I fully agree that it was illegal to use the passport numbers to forge passports. I also agree that it was illegal to enter a 3rd party’s state to perform the asassination. Heck, I even agree that its wrong to kill someone. But that’s as far as I would go to condemn Israel on this one. Lesser of two evils, is what I’m saying.

    If they had used their normal terrorist tactics (i.e gunships, rockets, troops on the ground) to try to take this guy out at home, it would have led to many needless deaths. And in that sense, I am glad they did what they did.
    Here is a quote from Hamas about the situation (emphasis mine):

    “We in Hamas hold the Zionist enemy responsible for the criminal assassination of our brother, and we pledge to God and to the blood of the martyrs and to our people to continue his path of jihad and martyrdom.
    There is just as much evidence that this was the work of a rival Palestinian agency (Fatas) as there is that it was Mossad. So we can’t even say for sure Israel was the culprit. Yeah, it looks like a duck, quacks like one, and all that but still, there’s no proof. Yet.

    As to who is more terrorised? Surely that’s not really measurable – terror is terror, full stop. And I don”t think we can or even should start a discussion here about who started the violence between Israel and Palestine, because that’s something that the whole world still can’t agree on.
    Let me put it this way – if Palestine had gunships, they’d use them instead of rockets and small arms. They don’t, so they cause less damage than Israel, but that does not lessen their status as terrorists

  23.  

    -Steve

    Instead of addressing your points one by one, I think it would be easier to simply take a small quote from your post;
    “terror is terror, full stop”

    I have little doubt over the dead man’s motives, but then I have little doubt over the Israeli command’s motive’s either. I know Hamas are a bunch of religious loons who are profiting from Israeli oppression of the Palestinian people in order to futher their cause. They admit it, straight up. We don’t have to like it but at least we know where they stand. Israel on the other hand, in between invoking the Shoah, mascarades on the moral high ground of western civilisation (something countries like France,UK, and the US are all perhaps equally guilty of) while committing acts of terrorism and showing nothing but contempt for international law.
    If this man can be executed in Dubaï, then any Israeli citizen buying military equipment is an equally valid target.

  24.  

    Fair point, C’est but I just can’t agree with you.

    Your argument seems to be predicated upon Israel being the (unjustified) agressor. And, although Israel has broken international law on many occasions and has indeed committed acts of terrorism, they have also carried out perfectly “legal” acts of war against Palestine, which are not considered terrorism.
    But they argue that it is their policy and intention to legally prosecute the war (even though we know they don’t always succeed in this) to defend their state. You can call them liars, but you’ll need proof.

    Hamas, on the other hand, has not engaged in any legal acts of war against Israel, they have conducted a 100% terrorist campaign. And they will confirm that this is their policy, and that they have no intention of ever fighting a “legal” war.

    So, as far as I see it, as Israeli citizen buying military equipment is not a valid a target.

    I do think though that the situation over there has gone so far beyond right and wrong by now that it is pointless to argue about it, and so I will instead concentrate on the issue at hand:

    Agents of a State entered a 3rd party State and executed the agent of an enemy.

    I don’t agree with it, but In this case I condemn Israel no more than any other state who ever did this in the history of this world.
    I will save my Jew-bashing for the next time they blow up some children. Then, we will both agree, I am sure!

  25.  

    Steve — I think it would be safe to call the assault on the Gaza camp last year an unjustified aggression. And I also think the continuing economic blockade against civilians is an unjustified aggression. In fact, I think the very existence of that concentration camp is in itself an act of aggression, in my opinion.

    Whatever about taking out one enemy agent — and I agree with you that all States have done this — we can’t accept passively the use of our passports in the course of the assassination.

    Likewise, there’s a great amount of racist spin in the Israeli portrayal of their opponents, almost to the point of invoking the dreaded term untermenschen. After all, what else could the Israelis possibly have in mind when they joke about Gazastan?

  26.  

    Bock, I don’t disagree with you on any of the facts you have laid out but I do disagree that the Gaza attacks (horrible as they were) were unjustified aggression.
    They may have been an extreme reaction, but they were in direct retaliation to over 50 rocket strikes by Hamas.
    Now both you and I can argue that this constitutes “unjustified aggression” but unless you can actually prove that Israel deliberately went in to cause civilian deaths, it’s not a fact.
    I don’t feel that I’m qualified to talk about the morality of fighting a war inside a civilian zone because I have no experience in that area, beyond being able to say that any war is wrong.
    In the same way that I can’t say if firebombing Germany or Japan’s civilians was definitely right or wrong, it’s simply too large a moral arena.

    On the other two points, I agree. And I think Israel has an awful lot to answer for in terms of the way they have treated the people of Palestine, no question about it. I would hope that someday the bullshit attitudes on both sides will somehow be changed.
    Nothing would please me more than to see an end to that horrible situation, but if we start an argument about the rights and wrongs of the actual armed conflict, we’ll never be done.

    As for racist spin; well, I’m sure Hamas doesn’t paint a nice picture of the Jews either.

    I suppose my original point should have been clearer.

    I don’t applaud Israel for its actions in this case. However I do take these actions apart from the acts of war themselves. Furthermore, I do respect the fact that they went to a lot of trouble to make sure that they got the guy they targeted, and nobody else.
    Like they did with their apres-Munich cleanup (yes, they did fuck up a bit there and there are question marks if they actually may have killed an innocent, but the point is that they took great care to get only the people they believed were responsible, and no collateral damage)
    Hamas on the other hand, just puts a bomb on some brainwashed kid and send him to blow up a bus full of kids.
    And lastly, I do hope we find out who authorised the use of our passports and make trouble for them.

    I do think it’s wrong that they used our Passports and when I mentioned earlier that we should get over it, I meant in the context that there are far worse things to worry about.
    Certainly, once it has been established that Mossad, and by extension the Israeli state, are responsible then I would fully support legal action against them on the basis of their abuse of our passports. 100%. Send the people who made that call to jail.

  27.  

    Steve — All of these arguments were covered in the posts about Gaza a year ago, and I think I’d just be repeating myself. However, that debate gave rise to interesting points and it’s probably worth rereading.

  28.  

    True, Bock, and as I recall I took a more neutral approach on that one. I agree that there’s not much point in echoing that disucssion here (although as I type this I realise that is what I’m doing- sorry!).

    I think I’ll bow out of this one, I feel that I have perhaps taken up too much space and driven away some of the folks who might have wanted to comment on the original issue.

    Here’s to hoping that we see and end to this awful business our lifetime, thanks again for continuing to providing a forum for us.

  29.  

    It was a thread on Gaza that drew me to this site originally, Bock has provided a forum here to examine Historical, Political, Human facts on the Israel/Palestine conflict.
    As suggested there are several threads where all of this was debated, discussed and thrashed about, However it remains an aberrational tragedy where the citizens of Gaza are right now as I type still suffering the extreme pain and trauma, not only of ” operation cast lead ” but of the many years of systematic destruction of their very existence.
    While we discuss the rights and wrongs of the Israeli Government, of Hamas, The Aid provided by the EU and the donations made by citizens such as ourselves have largely remained beyond the reach of the suffering civilians, To hold these people responsible for the actions of Hamas, To deprive them of what has been given to them to rebuild their fragmented lives is inhumane and illegal.
    To refer to Gaza in terms such as ” Middle Eastern problems ” is a gross disservice to the citizens of Gaza.
    For Israel to continue it’s blockade of vital medicines, building materials, educational materials into Gaza is to systematically destroy the future of over a million Palestinians locked down in the worlds biggest open prison which is not inhabited by one single Israeli Jewish person.
    The execution of Mahmoud al Mabhouh in Dubai carried out by gaining entry with illegal passports only exhibited to the World that Mossad has the capability to destroy Hamas leaders without the killing of 1,400 Palestinian civilians and maiming thousands of others, Not that executions of any kind can be justified.

  30.  

    When the creation of the state of Israel was sanctioned by the World Powers (read United Nations) after the end of the second world war the residents of the area both Jewish and Arab were given the opportunity to become full citizens of the new state. A harsh choice for many, undoubtedly, but an unavoidable one. Everything since then has hinged on the irresolute determination of the Palestinians ( Qualify that word how you will) to cleanse the middle-east of any Jewish presence. Gaza? What other country on the planet would tolerate unceasing rocket attacks for months on end before retaliating , with full warning, as the Israelis did? Palestine borders on Syria and Jordan and yet the accusations continue that Israel deprives the Arabs of humanitarian aid. Where is the aid that could flow over their common borders? Oh, right, then you wouldn’t have ‘ victims’ to avenge.

  31.  

    Paulo — Isn’t it remarkable that you return only when this subject comes up? Why is that?

  32.  

    Paulo1. Can I respectfully suggest you purchase an Atlas.

  33.  

    I don’t carry a torch for Israel any more than I carry a torch for any of the various factions in the North of Ireland where I was born. But as the old Stormont regime was finished the moment the RTE cameraman captured the RUC lashing out at everyone and sundry and didn’t need a rightwing Catholic nationalist paramilitary campaign to end it, so the Middle East changed forever after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its replacement with the British and French Mandates. It is of course possible to argue that Israel should never have been created, but that is far from defining exactly what would have existed had it not.
    Anti- Jewish sentiment had been whipped up in the region since the mid-30’s so perhaps a mini-holocaust ?
    States rarely fall because of external pressures; rather they fall because of internal divisions. Right now there are two Israels emerging; one centered around Tel Aviv one centered around Jerusalem. Jerusalem politics, being front line so to speak is producing hardline right wingers. Tel Aviv produces more liberal thinking. As long as Palestinians such as Hamas refuse to exploit these divisions because of their bugeyed fanaticism then all Palestinians will suffer as long as Israeli hardliners form the government.

  34.  

    I’ve actually commented on a number of other subjects, most recently the value of playing the National Anthem before sporting events but even if that were not the case why on earth would I have to explain to you or anyone else which topics I respond to? However, just for the sake of it, I suppose it might just be that I get a negative gut reaction to the vitriolic prose you and a great many other Irish gentlemen employ whenever the subject of Israel comes up.
    Norma, why would I need an Atlas (question mark) -my keyboard just switched to french.

  35.  

    Steve although you may be gone . Next time you are subjected to a strip and internal search because you are carrying an Irish or E.U. passport with somebody’s fingers up your anus you can lay back and think of Israel and your comment No. 19 “no big deal”

  36.  

    Paulo1 — Could you provide an example of my vitriolic prose in relation to Israel? And since it’s such a loose term, could you also please define what you understand by the word “vitriolic”?

  37.  

    Paulo1 Re Atlas recommendation, ” Palestine borders on Syria and Jordan ”
    Not accurate at all.
    Not much point in redirecting Aid to West Bank now is there ?
    Gaza, which is the area in dire need and prevented from recieving the Humanitarian Aid destined for it’s citizens, shares a small border crossing with Egypt, none whatsoever with Syria or Jordan, in fact it is firmly wedged between the sea and Israel and a bit more of Israel………………………Brings real meaning to that ‘ol sayin Paulo1
    ” caught between the devil and the deep blue sea ”
    Recently the Israeli government decided not to allow any car’s into Gaza, for the purpose of sale, As they concluded they would most likely be used for military purposes.

  38.  

    Norma, and I ask only for clarification, are you also Norma St. Leger, Bocks self appointed defender. I apologise for a bit of confusion; when I mentioned Syria and Jordan bordering Palestine I was referring to the state of affairs at the time of the partition of Palestine from which all else springs. No help was offered then and precious little has been offered since. I am aware that Gaza borders on Egypt but I am unclear why a peace treaty with Israel prevents Egypt from providing all the necessary humanitarian aid to their fellow arabs that could possibly be needed.
    Bock – as you so helpfully advised me when I innocently asked you in a response to one of your cooking blogs ” what is ghee? ” ” Inform yourself.” Any school dictionary will give you a variety of definitions for vitriol. Good hunting.
    For the rest, check your archives under ” War”

  39.  

    No Sir, That would be my evil twin !

  40.  

    Paulo1 — I didn’t ask you what the word meant. Vitriolic is such a loose term I asked you what you understand by it, for the avoidance of doubt. If you’re gioing to make such statements, you should be prepared to define what you mean. I also asked you to provide an example.

  41.  

    Bock it is pointless to attempt any form of logical argument with an Israeli apologist. The land was given to them by their God (whose name can not be spoken) and they shall do as they wish. So long as America backs them up Mossad and the misnamed IDF shall continue to kill men, women and children with impunity. Paulo and his ilk shall invoke the holocaust and forget the fact that the state of Israel is indulging in exactly the same tactics by starving the people of Gaza to death .

  42.  

    Gary, I’m no apologist for the State of Israel and I’m curious how people like you can extrapolate such a conclusion from anything in my comments. My point is that a lot of people seem to have no difficulty overlooking the misdeeds of Hamas, principally but by no means only their conducting terrorist attacks from the ‘shelter’ of non military structures including occupied apartment buildings and schools, which is in direct violation of the Geneva convention. Oh and equating Gaza and the Holocaust ? Is that what do they teach in the schools over there? By the way, is Ireland your real last name or just a chauvenistic nom-de-plume?

  43.  

    People also seem to overlook the uncomfortable fact that Hamas were democratically elected.

  44.  

    What on earth has that got to do with the methods they use in carrying out their attacks on civilian targets in Israel? Attacks launched, as outlined above, from behind the shield of their own people. Democratically elected equals a do- not- go- to -jail card ? God give me strenght.

  45.  

    Oh yes, I forgot to mention this in the previous comment but since you seem to put such value on it, I’d like to point out that the Nazi Party was also democratically elected.

  46.  

    It has as much to do with it as the murder of 1400 people in Gaza by a democratically-elected government.

    Incidentally, the human-shield argument is the lie that was put out by the IDF at the time to deflect attention from its war crimes. Since I already wrote about it comprehensively here and here, I don’t propose to repeat myself.

  47.  

    Please yourself, it’s your blog and you can do what you want with it. What a wonderful device is a bully pulpit. However there is ample evidence, including from Gazains ( is that correct?) themselves that rockets were being fired from apartmentment buildings and in at least one case from a school. If you seriously believe that the residents of Gaza are all or even mostly Hamas supporters then you truly live in that place I like to call ” Jews wrong, no matter how we have to twist the facts land” Suicide bombs in markets and on buses are a legitimate tactic? I realise that nothing will shake your conviction that this is a clear case of attempted genocide by the State of Israel against an innocent people so I’ll take my leave on this subject, but I will be back on others, unless of course I’m barred.

  48.  

    You will find not one example here of my condoning suicide bomb attacks, so please don’t atttempt to smear me by putting words in my mouth.

    I disagree with all attacks on civilians, whether by Hamas or the IDF, but I have said all along that I think the Israeli response to the rocket attacks was wholly disproportionate. I also believe it was illegal and a war crime. As for your snide comment about a bully pulpit, did you even bother to read the extract vfrom the Geneva Conventions quoted in the link I gave you?

    If I and my family were herded into a filthy concentration camp like Gaza, looking out at the farms our grandparents were driven off, I might well be shooting at my jailers too, as might anyone with a bit of self respect.

    To compound the crime, Israel has prevented the people in Gaza from importing building materials to reconstruct their homes. They don’t want bags of cement falling into terrorist hands.

  49.  

    That’s why I watched Munich this evening.

  50.  

    Bock I suspect the site has been invaded by Mossad agents. As for Paulo 1 not an apologist for Israeli atrocities? Has anyone read his postings? With reference to my identity perhaps Paulo 1 is normal on your Planet not on this one .

  51.  

    Gary – yes I was gone but had to respond re the anal probing – do you really believe that this will lead to Irish, UK, French and German people suddenly being subjected to strip-searches by, for e.g, the US?

    I know the Yanks will take any excuse to abuse our posteriors, and I’ll tell you what, if an Irish citizen gets fingered because of this I will come on here and admit I was wrong.
    I just personally don’t believe that this will happen.

  52.  

    Steve stealing the identity of British subjects now living in Israel has ensured that they can no longer leave the country. Given that the C.I.A. most likely trained and supply Mossad then they could most likely travel even with Israeli passports to America. On the other hand the authorities in Algeria, Morocco, Egypt etc. may take a very different view on E.U. passports in the future. If I were they, I know I would. Ireland has in the past conducted a lot of business with these Countries. Of course it is possible that the passports were forged by Arab terrorists in a shack left by the I.D.F. in Gaza . The Easter bunny and the tooth fairy were almost certainly involved.

  53.  

    Gary, I think you might be mixing me up wiyh paulo1i . Presenting the other side of any story can only be described as being apologistic by someone who simply has no interest in there even being another side. You think the site has been invaded by Mossad agents? Time to get back on your meds, your delusional paranoia is showing.

  54.  

    Please read the comments policy regarding personal insults.

    http://bocktherobber.com/about/comments-policy

  55.  

    See what I mean Gary, even the Bockmeister has his eye on you. Any more scurrilous Mossad secret agent rubbish and he’ll set the Normas on you, and you definitely won’t like that. Although I kind of like Norma but not so much Norma. Another couple of pints and you’ll be right as rain. Smile for fuck sake!!

  56.  

    Paulo someone on Bock said recently, we’re a nice enough bunch around here really, trying to encouring a new visitor to stick around, I couldn’t help but think.. yea and the real santa was pol pot.

  57.  

    Paulo 1 a friend of Bock and Israel? I am taken aback! I leave the field to you and your friends from the local.

  58.  

    Paulo1, Definitly not Paulo1i
    Please please please don’t ” kind of like norma ”
    Stick with your utter distaste for Norma with the bared teeth and twitching ear’s who lies in wait to snarl and pounce on her opponents then spit’s their entrails at innocent passersby, She’s much more your type.
    Drink up, enjoy your pints and stay smiling, everyone here is smiling.

  59.  

    Norma, are you making a pass at moi?

  60.  

    Quelle horreur Monsieur ! On rereading I can see the ambiguity, but it did lighten things up fractionally !

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