Apr 282010
 

What??

All of a sudden, Lenihan is open to the idea of closing Anglo?

Sorry.  Hold on a minute.  How recently was he telling us that we’d have to produce €70 billion up front?

Oh wait.  Now I remember.  It was the 30th March.  Less than a month ago Lenihan told us the sky would fall in if we allowed Seanie’s filthy edifice to collapse.  Here’s exactly what he told the Dáil:

Winding up the bank is not and has never been a viable option. As the bank’s new management and board have estimated, an immediate wind up would lead to a fire sale of assets resulting in a permanent additional and unnecessary loss of upwards of €30 billion. In addition, the State would have to provide, immediately and up-front, the large sum of €70 billion to meet the deposits, bondholders and liabilities due to the Eurosystem.

Following that, the scare tactics began and we had a troop of zombies telling us what a disaster it would be to close Anglo.

Éamon Ryan, the world’s stupidest minister, solemnly informed the nation that we’d be kicked out of the Eurozone if we tried to wind it up.

Here’s what the fool said on Saturday View:

It would be so nice if we could say we’ll let it go and that will be the end of that. The reality is … and that’s kind of Fine Gael’s position and what Labour seems to be saying. There are .. That means that we have to go and effectively say to the European Central Bank, who has a lot of money in deposit in Anglo, and say sorry we can’t pay you back. Now the European Central Bank, it hasn’t allowed a bank fail across Europe. So we would probably then have to leave the Euro. Now the risk of that, in terms of the tens of thousands of jobs that could leave this country because they’d say well Ireland is a riskier country to do business in, we don’t really want to do business there. That is what you’re talking about. So, it’s not easy, it’s not palatable but that’s the choice you’re faced with.

North Dublin TD, Darragh O’Brien, who once worked as a financial services spiv, parrotted the same mantra.  Not a viable option.

Both of these men sneered at Brian Lucey, as did Alan Dukes, who is not a fool,  when Lucey set out a detailed strategy for closing Anglo without costing the taxpayer an even greater fortune.

According to Lenihan in his Dáil speech,

…  a longer term wind down is not in the taxpayers’ interest. The new management has provided me with figures, assessed by independent financial advisers, indicating that in addition to the capital losses that would be sustained, a long-term wind down of the bank over ten years could expose the State to funding obligations approaching €30 billion.

Dukes at least had the integrity to admit that there was no obvious limit to the amount of funds we’d have to pump into Anglo if we wanted to keep it alive.

Well, whoop-dee-doo!

I have been saying ever since that it was all lies, and now, guess what?  The people who said Anglo could be closed weren’t such nutcases after all.

How did everything turn around in less than a month?

Would it have anything to do with the fact that Greece is going down the toilet, pulling us with it, and the German money people don’t give a flying shit what dirty little secrets about politicians are hiding inside the Anglo filing cabinets, or scrawled on the back of Fingleton’s cigarette boxes?

Maybe someone told him it wasn’t on to be spending as much saving Fitz’s scam as it cost to bail out the entire Greek economy.

_____________

Previously on Bock:

Nama Losses – Bankers Lied to Minister

What is the Anglo Secret?

How Do You Feel About Giving €2000 Every Year For The Rest of Your Life To Anglo-Irish Bank?

Banks, Insurance Companies, NAMA and Bail-outs

  33 Responses to “Lenihan Open To Idea of Winding Down Anglo”

Comments (33)
  1.  

    Word on the beat is that the EU have told the government that pumping anymore money into Anglo is nonsense, they’re not letting Cowen pull another attempted Euro-stroke. Glad some grown-ups have slapped some sense into the degenerates that we call our government.

  2.  

    A mate of mine tried to make sense of the whole bailout thing last week, and he works in a bank. I ttried to explain to him my grievances, but to no avail. He admitted being affected by brainwashing. He is a good friend of mine and a logical intelligent person. This is what we are up against Bock. Where do we go from here?

  3.  

    I can’t tell anyone where to go from here.

    Keep calling them on the bullshit until the grown-up world realises what a crowd of infantile thieving gobshites run this country.

  4.  

    And lo, the impossible becomes possible!

    The really, really trouser-staining news today is that Lenny and his media mouthpieces have been at pains to dismiss the notion that this country could default. It’s quite different here. Do you recall what they said about the capital ratios and general invulnerability of the Irish Banks, how they were utterly different from Lehmans, chalk and cheese, just before they bailed the egregious shower of bollices out and miraculously converted the wine of private debt into our blood donation of sovereign debt?

    This lot gave a blanket guarantee (of €480bn if I recall rightly), that they could obviously never cover, if their bluff were ever called. Well now it looks like it could be called. So where does that leave what was the standard depositor guarantee? Would there be enough money in the pot to repay that, when things go tits up, to use sophisticated financial parlance? Who knows, and we certainly won’t get a straight answer out of the Department of Finance.

    Well that’s it, the writing is on the wall – time to empty my capacious bank accounts and fly to Luxembourg with my ill-gotten gains, to live out what remains of my life an embittered and broken exile.

    “Éamon Ryan, the world’s stupidest minister.” Le mot juste.

  5.  

    if i’m not mistaken, its not the first time the irish government gave a blanket guarantee. were larry goodmans sales of beef not also given a state guarantee during the 80s? read it years ago in a book called “meanwhile back on the ranch” written by fintan o toole i think.
    out of curiosity has anyone ever seen an anglo irish bank atm? i’ve can’t recall ever seeing one. so how can a bank without even an atm facility be vital to the irish economy?

  6.  

    Goodman’s exports of filthy offal to Russia, disguised as meat fit for consumption, were insured by the taxpayer.

    Anglo is not a bank. It was a financial vehicle for speculators and now it’s nothing at all.

  7.  

    Yesterday, dropping the missus and her sis into town, I remarked on the property speculator driving in the sports range rover in front of us. His name is not important, but if you must think of any fat-cat range rover driving speculator, who has held onto all his assets even though, even though, and I get confused here… cause when I go to the a.t.m and there’s nothing, well nothing actually appears – and by nothing I mean I go home and wait for next pay day before going for a pint .

    I digress Bock, sorry. Yesterday, we trailed behind Tuesday’s failed property speculator who owes €20 Millions ( conservatively) in his sports range rover and I mentioned to the missus how I would be motivated to stab him down through his fontanelle until I reached the point where the knife pierced through his chin, like a property speculator hors d’ouvre of fancy hams and filling.

    She was not well impressed.

    But , and this is my point Bock, these are the people who Brian Lenihan is standing in front of. The Anglo people. Your angry mantra pounds about the place.

  8.  

    ANGLOIRISHBANK:
    Black hole surrounded by filth, into which Lenny pours all our hard earned monies.
    Origin; Fermanagh / Cavan border, Shanahans, Grey Door, Gilbauds etc etc etc

  9.  

    People shouldn’t be surprised by this. The trick in Ireland is to label dissenters as loopers and freaks.

    “Oh, you have an economics degree and think that we shouldn’t bail out Anglo?” [Makes swirly movement with finger next to ear]

    Anyone remember when the Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz came over and called Anglo ‘criminal’ at Trinity College? Maybe you do, but no-one else does.

    The people who run the country – no, I don’t just mean the politicians, I mean the media and most people in senior public and private sector positions – suffer terribly from a herd mentality (I reckon it to be a hangover from the days of the collar). First and foremost their job is to listen to what everyone else is saying – even if this is patently wrong. Critical thinking isn’t looked upon as fuel for debate – instead it is viewed with natural suspicion, as breaking from the herd as it runs off a cliff (“We’re in it together, lads!”).

    We’re a closed little island. Suspicious of new ideas – which are usually seen to come from ‘outside’. Political debate all too often resembles a circle-jerk – and if you don’t want to have a pull you’re kicked out of the club. It is and always will be our downfall.

  10.  

    Mr Sniffle thats what he owes to just one bank. if it’s who I think it is. In fact I think it only what he was to pay back last december, for all I know it might be only a part of what is owed.
    His company bought land banks all over the place, most of them miles from any large urban area, most of which are going back to farm land.
    check out his companys website.

  11.  

    Load.
    Aim.
    Fire.
    Load.
    Aim.
    Fire.
    Load.
    Aim.
    Fire at will.

  12.  

    I think it may be linked to Eurostat not allowing the “off balance” sheet shenanigens. Enron, Lehman, Greece and now little old us, caught rotten.

  13.  

    Yep. The grown-ups didn’t believe it was Mr Nobody who broke the window.

  14.  

    Lenihans MO is to lie until he is caught out, and then tell a new one. It buys time and people have short memories.

  15.  

    it seems to me that the people in Europe read the small print.

  16.  

    It seems to me you’re right.

  17.  

    Sniffle. It must have been the same range rover that nearly knocked me down a few weeks ago trying to cross over to Jack Fitzgerald’s shop. Next time I’m hoping for an invite to some Spanish winter palace. The range rovers are intact. The holiday homes are intact. The pensions are well secured. And just in case, to be sure to be sure, there is a few bob (that a a few million to you or I) safely away where it won’t be got at. These guys won’t pay a fucking dime.

  18.  

    Our government. Jokers. I don’t even know who they were trying to fool, themselves? A debt is a debt. Were they expecting the EU to look the other way while they swept the billions they pumped into NAMA under the carpet? Were they expecting light tough regulation, a wink and a back slap from the EU? Just a little piece of FF’s great plan, the thinking mans party. Gobshites.

  19.  

    Jeasus Bock……….Politics is Yelling for You……..
    I am now more than ever CONVINCED that the Top table of Government Ministers are up to their necks with this whole Banking, Builders, Golden Handshake Business. That is just why they want to sweep it all under the carpet!. You can be Sure……Yes SURE! that if any one of the top Bankers or Builders is going to pay for their mistakes, they will sing like a Bird and bring down what will be proved Historically to be the most corrupt Government in Irish History.
    It’s time to have the big clean out……….and I nominate BOCK to lead from the front!!!!!!

  20.  

    Where to go from here?

    Hm.

    I’ve been preparing for Collapse (with a capital “C”) since mid 2004. I really began to take it seriously after seeing this lecture by David Goodstein at Caltech (I was lucky to live about 3 miles from the campus): http://today.caltech.edu/theater/item?story%5fid=5602

    Who is Goodstein? “David Goodstein is Vice Provost, Professor of Physics and Applied Physics, and Frank J. Gilloon Distinguished Teaching and Service Professor at Caltech. He recently authored the book Out of Gas: The End of the Age of Oil, which will be available for purchase and signing at this event.”

    Not a nutter, in other words. Very well respected man. When, at the end of his lecture, he predicted “The end of human civilisation sometime in the 21st century”, I took it very seriously.

    In the 6 years that have followed, we are bang on target for collapse. Definitions of collapse vary, but a transition from a higher state of energy consumption to a lower state is a pretty reliable way of defining it. Barring a miracle, life is going to get a lot harder for a lot more people.

    The “Doomer” scribes that I’ve read have been incredibly accurate – the Mike Rupperts and Jim Kunstlers of the world are streets ahead of the “serious people” who infest TV and Radio organs. When they’ve been wrong, it’s been predicting a crash ~12 months sooner than it actually occurred – or, erring on the side of caution.

    Too bad they weren’t setting economic policy instead of the apes who did.

    Anyhow – what to do now? In 2004, I was begging friends & family to buy gold, and NOT BUY REAl ESTATE.. (I did so myself – though nobody took the advice, of course.). IT was ~$400 an ounce then. It’s closing in on $1200 again. I don’t have the nads to advise anyone to buy gold now, as it could fall in a heartbeat……. but if it goes below $800…….

    Advice: set aside 10% of your assets (if you have any) to prepare for the worst case scenario: a discontinuity of the “just in time” delivery system. If you don’t have between 3 and 6 months food and water reserves, then get your shit together, and buy it – along with the ability to cook it without a connection to the grid.

    In 2008, we came within hours of the entire financial system collapsing, and 2010, with the sovereign defaults, is looking like another potential tipping point. They’ll probably fake their way through it, but I wouldn’t bet my life on it.

    Have enough physical cash on hand to last a few weeks – a couple of thousand Euro, at least. In some scenarios this will be vital, though not the worst, obviously.

    Ireland has been given several tests of its ability to handle disasters – the banking collapse, floods, snow and volcano. In each case, it’s hardly covered itself in glory.

    I wouldn’t trust my life to the clowns in Leinster House. Neither should you.

    The Mormons have an excellent site that sells survival/camping equipment:
    http://beprepared.com/Default.asp?bhcd2=1272600078

    I don’t know if they deliver to Ireland – but just looking through their inventory might offer you some ideas.

  21.  

    That’s the Larry Goodman. The same Larry Goodman that is now one of the countries property barons who rents property to the state. So after my taxes saved his ass thanks to his blanket guarentee, he is still getting my taxes through these rents. Perhaps we could borrow some money from Larry this time. Although I imagine the interest we would have to pay would be fitting his character.

  22.  

    Dermot, a few years ago someone saying what you are now saying may well have been dismissed by many (not me though, after reading an address Mike Ruppert gave to the commonwealth club in 2004) as a crank, but now, after some of the events of the last few months, even ignoring the near financial meltdown and peak oil, you would have to be a fool to dismiss it, really. During the freeze this winter we were within a few days of the road transport system breaking down due to a lack of salt, which equals no food, or very little anyway, in the supermarkets – people who grow their own were starting to look very clever indeed. Likewise with the volcano, although to a lesser extent, with only air travel shut down. We’ve been lucky enough to have been given a warning. As for peak oil, one of the aspects thats not mentioned is the stuff thats made from oil besides fuel, plastics, clothes, paint, solvents used in industrial processes to make lots and lots of stuff we take for granted. A person could do a lot worse than copy those survivalists in the states that everyone used to laugh at. Apologies for straying from the thread Bock.

  23.  

    Wind your gums around my Tom-dooly Brian, you fucking spastic

  24.  

    This my friend is the result of poor government and even poorer opposition, so here we go again, another randon figure will be produced and we like the saps that we are will pay it, we won’t take to the streets, we won’t contact the Gardai and Army and explain that for the good of the country we need to remove and convict every member and affiliate of the FF/Green/PD wrecking machine and not a days freedom will any of them see until we know the truth about what wen’t on- Do you think the Army or Gardai would really give a shit now- These people have been fucked over more times then a €20 a ride hooker.
    SO, Why Enda Kenny didn’t you take heed 3 years ago when I advised you and your opposition colleague to forget your party for the good of the people and not allow another wasted Dail day at the taxpayers expense with the same monotonous questions and answers being directed by all of you wasting valuable squirming time for FF, how the leader of each party couldn’t agree beforehand to 5 priority questions and just leave it at that is beyond me, give them the morning and afternoon each day to answer instead of FG/Labour/Independent/Sinn Fein asking the same question after each other and wasting the Irish Peoples question time, you are your own Obstructionists and FF/Greens love it, why can’t the people who all apparently want the good of the country not set aside FG/Labour/Independent policies and work on the only priority this country has, and that’s to dissolve Dail Eireann and criminal proceedings that so rightly need to be brought against the FF/PD and Green party government for treason, gross misconduct, offences against the state, perjury, mayhem and murder and only then can the people of Ireland breathe, and only then decide which best of you all that we want to run the state, and not the state of how you’ll run things if you keep going the way you are. It’s pointless to have to ask them more then once, it’s pointless for Opposition not to show a united front to government no matter how big the difference may be between you, your all apparently fighting for the one outcome. I think Eamon Gilmore or maybe someone like Joe Higgins is what might change things, Kenny is a plank, he’ll hold any opposition behind and I would say nose dive the country into the sea after a week of Taoiseach, he’s not got the bottle to shout his own name never mind redesigned a dying State. So just 5 questions a day please, 30 a week when you bother to turn up, but still its better then asking the same question 5 times a day and only managing to ask 3 or 4 before FF’s top dogs get bored and wander off into the sunset or bar, whichever is closer. I must say, as a non-drinker and scared motorist and pedestrian for all the drunk drivers on our roads I find it utterly disgusting that the Irish People are expected to run a Bar in our government buildings for any alcoholics who may not be able to go through a days work without a pick me up, can someone not tell me why in any other business in the private sector we severely punish the staff member who arrives one day with a whiff of drink after a night out, yet we’re paying to provide staff and alcohol to the people who are supposed to be running the state, Absolute madness, and why during all the debates about wastes of money have I not heard the first thing to go should be our politicians ability to not have to leave the confines of their job to get a drink. People in the private sector get drug and alcohol tested randomly, this is contractual in a lot of companies as alcohol and drug abuse is rampant on this Island because of the forced poverty imposed on the people by a corrupt government, now why isn’t our government tested daily/weekly to see how many of you are drunk or drugged up, and I know that even some reading this are probably borderline over the limit already. The party is well and truly over, now get your coats, and get the fuck out of my House.
    Thankfully I’m leaving the country of my ancestors in June with a hope of never setting foot on this rock again while FF/Green or FG have a chance of fucking up my future.

  25.  

    @dermotmoconnor

    Are you serious? We had a financial crash, not a nuclear war. Humans have and do face far worse situations than financial crises. The plague? The 18th and 19th century famines? WWI and WWII? The actual threat of nuclear holocaust during the Cold War?

    No matter what some physicist obsessed with the entropy principle says (would you trust a history professor on quantum mecahnics?), humans are finding it easier to survive today than ever (in the first world at least). Our levels of hygeine alone have increased life-expectancy enormously.

    But I guess for some the four horsemen are always around the corner… Y2K, much?

  26.  

    Phil April 30th, 2010 10:48 am – I think you hit the nail on the head there man, this guy probably works for Tesco and they’ve over ordered on a select few items (i.e camping equipment, Sun-dials, Abacus, baked beans, glass hammers and choclate fireguards), the real must have items for any modern home. The worse thing about spouting about what a proffessor says is that its not even Dermot O’Connors own words, he’s trying to get a lift out of someone elses philosophy. Dooms day merchants in the States have caused mass stupidity globally, and all there trying to do is sell something, a book, an agenda or like Dermot here, a scared and bewildered state of mind.

  27.  

    Sorry for side tracking but I’d added to a post from 3 days ago and didn’t want to miss out on some politician bashing, you know Experian PLC, Seanie Fitzpatrick is involved with them, I need say no more, well you’ll never guess:
    Experian PLC- You know Cork East’s own TD Edward (Ned) O’Keeffe is a shareholder in that.

    My question is this?
    Did they at any point advise the government or our banks about how much money they could get away with throwing at each other for salaries/pensions and gold happy-endings, could they be a global Enron.
    Maybe take a look at Experian PLC Board members and ask why any financial analyst company would have a director from Lehman brothers and various other self interest organisations. Again I think Bock has uncovered another little gem as far as curiosity, certainly not in blame, these are my views only. SO lets have a look see what it says, the gentle mans initials are FMcM(don’t want to put Bock in legal predicament) and he recently is/was Managing Director, Lehman Brothers Inc, also, This person is connected to 3 board of directors in 3 different organizations across 4 different industries.

    ANNUAL COMPENSATION
    There is no Annual Compensation data available

    STOCK OPTIONS
    There is no Stock Options data available.

    TOTAL COMPENSATION
    There is no Total Compensation data available.

    And why is our economy and future in the shits, because with our money, these people got very rich, but more so very greedy, ethics wen’t out the door and multiple directorships with or without conflicts of interest seem all abumdant.
    Fuck Society, as we voted for the Scum that saved them.

    O.k, now if you’ve read this far then thank you,
    But as a shareholder, would Ned O’Keeffe not have been on the money everytime he bought an option.
    Get your ass onto Bloomberg.com and see if you can count the directors, then try and count the relationships and see the avenues that open up with Experian behind you…..

  28.  

    What now of the Ebns of public monies spend on propping this septic tank? NAMA will have no right to collect the debt owed to AI and all the cunts will be free to rob again. Watch this space for property boom mark 2.

  29.  

    Maybe the consequences of not closing have become worse than the consequences of closing.
    Scary. Watch for politicians buying one way tickets to destinations with no extradition. Get behind them in the queue and grab a seat if you can afford it?
    By the way – would the universe notice if the human race disappeared tomorrow – doubt it.
    Would the world notice if our lump of rock sank tomorrow – dont think anyone would give a shit unless it started a tsunami that would hit them.
    Need to start smelling the coffee.

  30.  

    Gerry Kelly Are you THE Gerry Kelly? Of FG?

  31.  

    if this happened in any other country ther would be a revolution

  32.  

    @ Phil

    I recall Stiglitz saying that.

    Do you remember Karl Whelan and a bunch of other economists writing a letter saying that the Government would be paying too much for NAMA? And then Lenihan and his pet economist Alan Ahearne telling him he was an eejit? Then lo and behold the Commission says that yes, you are paying too much, Lenihan?

    He’s an awful liar that Lenihan. The media think he’s “brave”. How long will it take for the hacks to catch up with the rest of us?

  33.  

    @ Yobbah

    The sickening thing is that peeps like Lenihan and Ahearne (quite the weasily character – economist-cum-boot licker) can never be wrong, because they tell the elites what they want to hear. Criticising them is pointless, because they aren’t really people in the normal sense of the word. They’re more like communication buoys, floating in a sea of received wisdom.

    The fact that the media take Lenihan seriously despite the fact he’s not an economist and he’s got just about everything wrong shows just how gullible they are. Media people want short punchy soundbites from Lenihan and co. over reasoned analysis from neutral, proffesional economists. Why? I’m not 100% sure, but if I had to guess it would be that the people who work in the broadsheets and think themselves quite clever are actually extremely stupid and prefer to rest their sources on figures of plain authority than someone who might know what they’re talking about.

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