Apr 142010
 

NAMA is barely up and running, and already we have confirmation of what we suspected.  The situation is far, far worse than they told us.

NAMA’s chief executive has told an Oireachtas committee that of the €81 billion in loans to be taken over from the banks, developers are only paying interest on €27 billion.  Originally, we were told that 40% of the loans were performing and would help to cover the cost of the bad loans.  This assumption was made on the basis of information supplied to the Minister by the banks.

Brendan McDonagh informed the committee that in about €2 billion of the first €16 billion loans transferred, no payments at all had been paid.

He went on to say that NAMA would consider sending in the bulldozers to demolish some of the developments, and that NAMA would start to foreclose on bankrupt developers by September.

McDonagh described a mindless scramble to funnel lending into one sector at considerable pace and of a reckless abandonment of basic principles of credit risk and prudent lending.

This included failure to do very basic things like recording the right  names of people who had borrowed bilions from the banks, or recording details of the properties correctly.  It included issuing loans that were not secured against anything, and it included issuing multiple loans all secured against the same property.  It included issuing loans to buy agricultural land at commercial prices in the hope of securing rezoning.

He wasn’t sure, he told the committee, if all this was due to fraud or incompetence, but I think I can tell him the answer to that.  It was both.

The banks lied and lied and lied, to Lenihan and to the rest of us.  They’re still lying.  They were incompetent and they were dishonest.  They defrauded the country.

On the basis of these lies, Lenihan and Cowen panicked and put the guarantee scheme in place which ultimately forced the country to nationalise the filth that is Anglo.

On the basis of these lies, Lenihan persuaded himself that Nama could somehow magic away the losses that had been incurred through the criminal lending practices of the banks.  It was never going to work, and now we can see it unravelling.  The government was incompetent and was built on the deeply dishonest Fianna Fáil, which was in cahoots with the crooked bankers and the dodgy builders.

Theres simply no getting away from these losses.  Anyone with an eye in their head could see this was going to happen.

Fianna Fáil TD Michael McGrath, chairman of the meeting, at least provided a grim laugh when he observed that this would shock many people.

__________________

Previously on Bock :  NAMA

  51 Responses to “Nama Losses – Bankers Lied to Minister”

Comments (51)
  1.  

    Well imagine my complete lack of surprise. So when can we start hanging those responsible by the bollix from lampposts?

  2.  

    I just need to know which ones to stab in the head – let me know – ( do you remember that guy in Full Metal Jacket , the heavy kid that they pushed too far – well the look in his eyes as he polished his M16 – oh yeah babey )

  3.  

    I would be fairly confident that everyone in here would wish Brian Lenihan a speedy recovery from his well publicised illness. However, I reckon that paradoxically his illness has granted him a degree of immunity from criticism for Nama. Lenihan and Biffo have put almost everything we have on the last race at Newmarket and if this horse doesn’t come home…………….

    I recall that film Mr Sniffle. The drill seargent should have won an Oscar.

    “Where are you from,” he screams at a recruit.

    “Texas Sir”.

    “Hell, only queers and steers come from Texas son and you don’t look like much of a steer to me.

  4.  

    God question Bock…… Incompetence or fraud.
    Conmen always look for the soft mark or the easy touch.
    They didn`t have to look too far to find the half wits running our government or office of the financial regulator. Unless they were all in on it. The level of incompetence by the regulator is INCREDIBLE. Or was it something more sinister. The dreaded F word. One wonders how many ministers or department officials have been boxed off by the bankers?
    It has happen before Bock, remember Charlie and the chocolate factory sorry the AIB

  5.  

    Whether it is fraud or (gross) incompetence is a rather a mute issue, Ireland is in debt, an will sadly remin so for many years ahead. A better focus of collective efforts is what plans will be put in place to re-build (no pun intended) the indebted economy?
    Wishing all my countrymen better days in the near future – I hope lessons are learnt and procedures put in place to ensure no re-occurance of borrowing (cheap money) in an attempt to appear wealthy.

  6.  

    Declan
    Lessons will not be learned. The FF party are still in place, the bankers are still in place.
    This country is circling the drain and will go down unless there is a rapid change of government and a root and branch clearout of all the agencies of state which are not fit for purpose.
    FF tell us that this is underway but to quote Saint Bertie “It’s all smoke and daggers” !!

  7.  

    Declan

    How can you start to rebuild a state when its foundations (ie politicians and bureaucrats) are rotten to the core?

  8.  

    When will they start to investigate those people who enabled all of this “incompetence”: the solicitors and advisors who paved the way with their flexible laws. For fuck sake, the whole DDDA/Glass bottle fiasco has shown how either corrupt or stupid Daveys stockbrokers were and are, and yet I saw Rossa White on Primetime last night offering sage-like advise to the country. Rossa’s firm had Derek Quinlin so far up their hole that they did not even check to see if proper valuation had been done on the site. Open the ports and allow the British back in…this republican project was a waste of time. In America they jail these crooks. In England yesterday they fined two of them and banned them from ever working in the financial sector ever again. In Ireland we give them big severence pay packets and still send them invites to rugby matches in Croker.

    God save the Queen!

  9.  

    Aaaaaaaarghhhh!

  10.  

    Lied?

    Such a harsh word.

    We were meerly being long term economic with the truth.

  11.  

    again I ask what can be done by us mere mortals…. seriously. picket government buildings with down right rude placards? march somewhere? no I didn’t think so…. the reaction here has been so flipping muted it almost makes me as angry as I am with the government (or lack thereof)

  12.  

    Brian Lenihan is the biggest liar of them all. Or else he’s extremely stupid. then again perhaps he is both.

  13.  

    In answer to:
    Mel Drew
    My first rather trite response is; rather carefully! However, on a more serious note, what else is there to do? Being negative about the Irish political structure and it’s politicans serves no purpose, save to vent. Hard work and conservative economic policies are a possible solution. The bankers (lenders) must be controlled by a peer or third-party oversight statutory body.
    Kings Bard
    One can but hope and have faith in the Irish people that they will put in place the laws to ensure the long term stability of the Fair Isle. Ultimately, people get the government they deserve. Get involved, be the driver for change and your personal destiny.

  14.  

    @declan.

    ‘Being negative about the Irish political structure’ is our duty as citizens, followed by action to change it radically. Had the founders of this state not ‘been negative’ about British rule we would still be part of the UK.

    The last thing we need now are ‘conservative economic policies’, if you mean by this the standard neo-classical fare combined with run-away financialisation that caused this last crisis and will lead shortly to the next one. We are embarked on the biggest deliberate deflation (I don’t mean reduction of prices, I mean the collapse of indigenous economic activity, with the consequent collapse of the tax base, leading to cuts in public spending, leading to collapse of indigenous economic activity etc. etc. round and round in a downward spiral) of any economy in the Euro zone.

    There are alternatives. Imagine if we spent the money being poured into the black hole that is Anglo Irish on a strategy of reflationary stimulus like the ones proposed by Tom O’Connor of TASC. Such a strategy would create jobs, improve infrastructure and maintain the tax base. It’s been done before in many parts of the world, as has allowing dead banks to go into administration.

    Read what he has to say before believing the spokespeople of the banks, bond markets and hedge funds like Davy Stockbrokers who have the ear of Mr. Lenihan. Tom O’Connor is only calling for a €5.2 billion spend. And the “Irish political structure’ is in the process of pouring €22bn into Anglo Irish because they have the dirt on FF. Every other economy in the world chose to stimulate during the recent crisis except us – we were to busy paying off private gambling debts, and fudging the books with the help of the EU.

  15.  

    Further to my comment above, Paul Sweeney of TASC , notes that our elite’s approach to this crisis is greeted internationally with derision.

    In his latest book, “Freefall: America, Free Markets, and the Sinking of the World Economy,” Joseph Stiglitz slams the Irish government’s attitude to international cooperation on dealing with the financial crisis. He quotes disgraced former Minister Willie O’Dea, who boasted that Ireland can be a free-rider on the back of other economies’ stimulus packages.

    He further makes the point that depressing wages and deliberately causing unemployment is the last thing we want to do now.

    David McWilliams continually makes the good point that international investors don’t care about defaults and closures of bust banks – that’s a part of ‘normal’ capitalism. What they are very wary of is a country making irrational (more accurately, suicidal) investment decisions, like Anglo Irish and Irish Nationwide.

  16.  

    Just as well the founders of the State were so negative about British rule, then.

    What a wonderful job we’ve made of independence. If we were still part of the UK, we’d be so much worse off now, wouldn’t we?

  17.  

    I’d rather be a citizen of a botched republic with a written constitution that can be revised than a subject of some German aristo in a country with a so-called ‘unwritten constitution’. Just a personal preference and it isn’t high on my list of prejudices.

    Anyhow, the point was that to make a change, you need to be firm about what’s wrong with the old order and be determined to replace it.

  18.  

    I’d rather my children’s future was secure.

  19.  

    Declan, what bit do you not get?.

    These people are traitors and have betrayed the Irish people.
    They fail to admit any wrongdoing and block any attempts to have any meaningful inquiry into the failure of the banks.
    They have sold us out and deserve to be exposed and punished.
    They are unworthy of any respect and cannot be allowed near to power in the future.

    Re, the collective,I have never voted for this shower nor will I in the future. They and their supporters are morally bankrupt.
    Let them pay for their treason.
    Why would anyone in their right mind adopt a collective approach with that shower.

  20.  

    Padraig O’Riordan, managing partner of Arthur Cox solicitors is an advisor to Brian Lenihan. Padraig is also on the board of ‘Your Country, Your Call’. Arthur Cox are the advisor to Anglo Irish as well as being the chief legal advisor to NAMA. Rotten, rotten, rotten. There is no hope for this country and its morally corrupt people. The boys at the top cream off the state and with the help of their Brown Thomas corrupt wives they tell their children that this is okay. Its your right to be better than other people. You use whatever means you have to to stay rich, even if that means flouting the law and screwing those who are stupid enough to be screwed. My parents came from the liberties and there is not an ill bone in their body. My mother used to give away her house keeping money to the less well off on our street. That is because my parents come from a back ground steeped in integrity. There is no integrity anymore and Irish parents are telling their kids that this is okay. In my experience, English people have much more integrity than those of these shores.

  21.  

    Darren. If i can just expand on your very insightful comment.
    What we need to do is to learn from and emulate the Icelandic experience, It was the people of Iceland , their determination , focus and persistence which rang the changes, Their simple non violent but persistent demonstrations every single day which brought the rot and corruption to light, They named and shamed and brought about a change in Government.
    Can we do that ? I’m doubting it, We seem paralysed by fear, as if that was anything new ? Or is it that we are so entrenched and addicted to endless tales of woe and destruction, with the brief interludes of taking the piss out of each other in our usual ineffectual way but gathereing the reassurance that we belong to some ludicrous herd or other.
    The biggest joke about Ireland presently, and there are so many, is plain and simple, The person in charge of the finances of this Country at the worst time in economic history, is now The Prime Minister, Is it any wonder we are viewed as complete idiots, Its because we are,.

  22.  

    Norma. Look at the boyos who murdered Brian Murphy outside of Annabells. The first thing their brief tells them is don’t in any way approach the parents of the murdered boy. This can’t be right. Don’t ever approach and say sorry as this will only serve as a expression of admitting guilt. Perhaps I need to wake up and get my head out of the Frank Capra movie I am trying to exist in, but I am losing the will to live in this society. Brian Cowen standing in front of the GPO talking about patriotism while he throws away the countrys future so that he can protect a bunch of his friends who just happen to be major stake-holders in Anglo. Last week I spoke to a young tax trainee who only desire in life was to work for the “genius” that is Denis O’Brien. Her hero is Denis O’Brien. Denis – I’ll make a fortune from my mother land and then fuck off so I don’t have to pay any capital gains tax to the state that made me my fortune – O’Brien.

    Darren

  23.  

    Darren. No person with a shred of integrity could live at peace with themselves in this current society.
    Yes, the murder of that young man outside Annabelles and the ” justice ” meted out is shameful.
    From the corruption and manipulation at the top, filtering down through the Church, local Councils, Planning, Zoning, Criminality, Legality, right through to the fabric of human society, only wishing to live a decent life, even the constant wittering about the ” state of the nation ” but ” lets have another pint ” and do nothing, its becoming unbearable, I’m living with it only because i’m so reclusive.

  24.  

    @norma

    I absolutely agree about the Icelanders showing us the way.

    Why are we so much slower than them to react? As you rightly say, it’s fear. Fear of the rabbit trapped in the beam of oncoming headlights.

    Elaine Byrne (an expert on corruption in Ireland) was good on Newstalk today, when she talked about the root of the fear. Many people are just about hanging in there with falling income and huge debts and the threat of repossession and homelessness suspended over them like the sword of Damocles. The natural reaction to this level of fear is to put the head down and hope the conditions will pass and we’ll muddle through somehow. There is a long cultural implantation of stoicism in the country that works to reinforce this.

    FF/Greens are exploiting this natural reaction by getting the likes of the ESRI to spin a report about how things will somehow going to improve in a year (always next year, you will note – not now and not too far into the future). They’ll talk about growth figures, and this is by association supposed to be good for all of us, even though it just means the multinationals becoming more productive with the workers they already have here.

    But the spin will only work if a minority are tipped over the edge from ‘just getting by’ to not being able to make ends meet. FF/Green policy is to reduce incomes, increase unemployment and reduce public services at the same time as mortgage rates and various forms of indirect taxation are increased. More and more are going to be tipped over into the ‘can’t pay’ category. Levels of insecurity, common in the ‘underclass’, go all the way up into those who think of themselves as middle class. Fear turns to desperation, and desperation to anger.

    Whether that anger turns into useful political change or mere social disintegration, is, I guess, up to us.

  25.  

    Worked in a bank for 20 years. 15 years ago everything became about numbers. Salary, bonus, promotions, awards – all about numbers. Banking became about how to fiddle the figures. Those best at fiddling the figures rose to the top. Thats their skill. Thats all they know. Thats how they got there. Thats why they are there. To expect people (who have built a career on their ability to lie and cheat through numbers) to change is expecting the impossible. They will still be lying and fiddling the figures because thats all they know. Next crisis will be brewing now.
    Change. Cant see it. The pressures most of us put on ourselves are to accumulate wealth and status – wealth and status add up to success in life. Integrity, social conscience, decent values for most of us are the poor relations, who are invited to the party when wealth and status have been satisfied. How do we change that. Fucked if I know. We are more interested in celebrity assholes who do nothing but take than we are in those who give. Why is that. Fucked if I know. Maybe we all need to look in the mirror and change our perception of what we see. Maybe we need to challenge the values we have been brought up with. Fuck knows. Cant see much changing until we change ourselves. How do we do that. Maybe we need to stop being sheep and become individuals capable of independent thought and action and stop listening to the vote for me and I will solve your problems crap or believe what I tell you to believe give me your money and you will have everlasting whatever the fuck the promise is crap. Fuck knows. Just start doing whatever you do differently and see what happens.

  26.  

    Mel Drew and Kings Bard,
    From my remote loaction (Africa) the plight of the Fair Isle seems rather worse that I had understood, which was based on my reading of internet Irish newspaper sites etc. From your respective comments, and those of others detailed above, it seems that an Iceland option is the only viable option. It is a sad commentary on both the value systems and ethics (or lack thereof) in Ireland today.
    But as Ghandi and others long before him have said; the good guys win in the end – always. Hang in there, and I wish you all (particularly those unemployed and or struggling with debts) much better days ahead.
    Declan

  27.  

    Pope epopt and Paul . Both of you have just about summed up what it is about us ” Irish ”
    ” Challenge the values we have been brought up with…..” Paul 25, Do we have the capacity to mount that challenge on ourselves ? Our lack of self belief is so embedded, As a race of people our tendencies seem to be to demonstrate that “self belief ” via the outward display of ” belonging to a herd of choice ” Therefore we remain unchallenged on an individual level and persistently reinstate a system of “learnt behaviour ” where our intellectual capacity is in truth incapacitated by our ” unchallenged values ” We resist expression which might be interpreted as contrary to our ” herd ” because we might be excommunicated.
    Are we a complete Nation of sheep ?
    ” Whether the anger turns into useful political change………” Pope epopt 24
    Being angry is frowned upon, We are taught from an early age how unacceptable ” anger ” is, The quickest route to becoming labeled is anger, Its somewhat acceptable in the Irish primary social environment The Pub, because therein lies the great Irish excuse, ” had a bit too much to drink ” The pub is our primary social environment, where we gather and impart information, Where we express our views and unburden our souls all under the tutelage of our peers and forefathers in the freat fog of chemical changes occuring in our indoctrinated minds.
    Why are we so fearful, Why are we not demanding the truth being hidden behind the NAMA banner, Its well demonstrated here that we know a cover up is being heavily nurturtured by this present Government, Yet we seem content to bleat like the sheep we are ,and trot off to the Pub to expound our discontent and fear, Do we leave the pub reassured “we are not alone ” and live to fight another day………unchallenged values intact.

  28.  

    Hey diddle diddle, will I start talkin in riddles..
    Norma, to me Paul summed up his experience of greed. There is nothing uniquely Irish about that in any way shape or form.
    I find your particular digs a bit depressing to be honest.. the constant wittering about the ” state of the nation ” but ” lets have another pint ” and do nothing, its becoming unbearable, I’m living with it only because i’m so reclusive. Yet we seem content to bleat like the sheep we are ,and trot off to the Pub to expound our discontent and fear …… and No person with a shred of integrity could live at peace with themselves in this current society. A lot of people are at peace within themselves and have integrity in this current society. You’ll be waiting a while for happiness to come from anywhere outside yourself Norma.

  29.  

    Norma. One can only hope that the two Brians (thats if Brian 2 lives long enough) and the rest of the Drumcondra puss will suffer their Lady MacBeth moment just like Denis O’Brien has been suffering his for years. Poor Denis has been hanging off his cross since he left Ireland with his big bag of cash. A string of courtrooms later and Denis can still be heard to cry “Nobody loves me” Denis missed the one major point of why nobody likes him and most people I know like Michael O’Leary. Michael is patriotic. Denis, you’re just a leech. Portugal first. “Low tax. Still have my corporation tax money. Oh the Portugese want money from me”. So up he goes and heads to Malta. He occasionally gives to charity, which I’m sure he can then claim back in rebates. It’s just dishonesty, Denis. Your tax advisors might call it “avoidence”, but those spots won’t come out whatever you call it. FME. You sound like another wing of the Your Country Your CAll brigade. You can’t just expect to wave 100.000 euro in peoples faces and hope that the past will go away. Norma is right. Society has been damaged hugely by this crisis which was perpetrated and then covered up by a few greedy, shady people. Mass unemployment, an enormous amount of people prescribed
    anti-depressants and told to continue in their jobs in banks, law firms, brokers and accountancy firms; defending the indefencable, but stuck their out of fear of losing their homes and not being able to pay for their childrens healthcare and schooling. I am the first person to take the piss out of situations, but I hate injustice. Does it genuinly not make you boil that very wealthy people are being protected by the law firms and politicians of this state at the expense of the children and pensioners of today. My father is paying a levy on his pension that he paid into all his life. Why should gambling bond holders in Anglo be intitled to a piece of my fathers pension?

  30.  

    Darren – “You sound like another wing of the Your Country Your CAll brigade” Well I’d prefer to be part of that bridage than be on anti-depressants, reclusive and not enjoy the odd drink, thank you. I just happen to think characteristics such as greed (or repression of feelings – anger) are not an Irish phenomenon only.
    Ironically I think people who talk about ‘our lack of self belief being so embedded’, as put in an earlier comment, exhibit examples of this with the unconstructive criticism they offer up.

  31.  

    “Unconstructive criticism” If I wanted constructive criticism I would read the letters page in The Irish Times. The reason I come here, as I assume is the same with you, is to get away from the sanitised, solicitor soaked pages of the regular media that tip toe around important issues. As for anti-depressants and being reclusive: I am neither, but would prefer the country was run by sensative people than the sociopaths who are currently kicking the country to death.

  32.  

    Agreed Darren.
    I didn’t say you were on anti-depressants or reclusive.. but they were mentioned in earlier comments.
    I just think some people could be less self defeatist and negative. It’s a shame if the state of the way the country is being run is used as an excuse to be miserable.

  33.  

    FME. Like I said, I am the first one to take the piss and I am not easily offended; so no worries. I am not miserable. I am fucking angry! I would not consider myself patriotic, but it upsets me to see crooks standing in front of the GPO and claiming that they are when they clearly are not.

  34.  

    FME; I am in fact one very happy person on an individual level, However I am possessed of a social conscience and my concerns for the Country are what i expressed, As my personal circumstances and outlook are irrelevant in the bigger picture regarding my concern and anger at the treatment of my fellow citizens.
    My own personal sense of peace is just that, mine, if i can lend a hand or assist my neighbour, in the broader sense of neighbour, then i will, Your poor judgement of me as a person based on my expressed fraustration and anger regarding the suffering and burden of generations to come is just your way of making a ” dig ” and percieving same from me, I made no ” dig ” at anyone, I made a statement based on experience, if it was’nt factual or true then fair enough.
    I have never taken anti depressants and my ” reclusivness ” is my own choice, My opinions are irrelevant, my concerns however are not.
    You have obviously misinterpreted my comments and its equally irrelevant to state that i very rarely entertain defeat on a personal level, but thats the whole point, its not about me, its about the NATION of Ireland and the future of its people, I actually know i’ll be fine, come what may, but the point FME is I don’t actually matter.

  35.  

    FME — Do you believe that being angry is a negative thing?

  36.  

    Not at all Bock. I said in comment 30.. ‘ I just happen to think characteristics such as greed (or repression of feelings – anger) are not an Irish phenomenon only.’ Greed and repression of feelings – particularly repression of anger, being a bad thing and not only an Irish phenomenon.
    That was in response to, “Being angry is frowned upon, We are taught from an early age how unacceptable ” anger ” is, The quickest route to becoming labeled is anger, Its somewhat acceptable in the Irish primary social environment The Pub, because therein lies the great Irish excuse, ” had a bit too much to drink ”

    I just find some of the comments a bit defeatist and negative. Is going to the pub a negative thing? It’s mentioned a few times in a derogatory way.
    ” the constant wittering about the state of the nation but lets have another pint and do nothing, its becoming unbearable, I’m living with it only because i’m so reclusive…. Yet we seem content to bleat like the sheep we are ,and trot off to the Pub to expound our discontent and fear”.

    Norma I didn’t judge you as a person, I said I find some of your comments a bit negative and unconstructive. I did not agree with your views on our particular way of socializing. I find them a bit irrelavant and unconstruction. Sorry if I offended you personally for this.

    The comment regarding anti-depressants was mentioned in comment 29 ” Mass unemployment, an enormous amount of people prescribed anti-depressants and told to continue in their jobs in banks, law firms..” etc.. I never said any of the commenters were on anti-depressants… I think I’ll need um soon though if I keep going over some of these comments.. beam me up Scotty.. :)

  37.  

    Just checking. I think repression of emotion has been a real problem for our people, and you can see it now with the passive acceptance of what the gvernment is doing to us.

    Here’s a bit of heresy for you: in my opinion the Irish are far more emotionally repressed than the English.

    Incidentally, going to the pub is great and I do it all the time.

  38.  

    Yeah we are a bit emotionally repressed all right. Could be worse though, at least we’re not German. :)
    “Incidentally, going to the pub is great and I do it all the time.” Phew, I don’t feel too bad now.. :)

  39.  

    FME. There is a big difference between stating the facts of our current reality and being negative, In my personal daily life I am extremly positive, I will do everything I possibly can every single day to make my life and the lives of those close to me as harmonious and productive as possible, However the invasive and pervasive reality of the Country I live is not something I can be unaware of.
    Its a very sad reality of to-day that the increase in prescriptions of anti depressants is very seriously on the up,There is no long term solution in that remedy.
    I’m not at all ” anti-pub ” as it is very much the hub of social interaction , communication and story telling in our environment, My reference to same was that much of our deeper means of expression can become accustomed to being aired exclusivly in that environment.
    It is easy to lie to a repressed people, And what is repression if not a lack of self belief ? We are not only allowing the lies to be told, We are facilitating the entire rotten system.
    So it seems we are a very active social people, We regularly meet in social environments, ie pubs, Why has no reaction been born of this ?
    Why are’nt we grabbing the saucepans from our kitchens and marching on the Dail demanding the truth, change, The care of our sick and elderly, The immediate abandonment of the current regime.
    Apparantly people are discussing this with each other more than any crisis in our history, but we are not showing our distaste to the people who have through their lies and greed brought us here, Can anyone tell me why ?
    Bock. I think the English as a people are far more reserved but we are definitly far more repressed, Why on earth are people still having children ” christened ” and ” Communionised ” in the Church after the raft of vile revelations of late, I don’t get it at all, What has to happen for us as a people to react ?

  40.  

    Agree with a lof of what you say there Norma. I think anger can be very constructive and gets things done.
    I think myself we shouldn’t shame ourselves for feeling ashamed, if that makes sense. Not going to change anything with that.
    “And what is repression if not a lack of self belief ?” I like Erikson’s stages of psychological development. Explains a lot of what happens with repression of emotions… e.g ‘Autonomy versus Shame and Doubt’ at ages 18months to 3 years. It’s a universal phenomenon really.
    “Why are’nt we grabbing the saucepans from our kitchens and marching on the Dail demanding the truth, change..” haha.. they’re all saucepans in the Dail Norma!! :)

  41.  

    Like as Bock said, we are being completly passive in our response to how this government and its cronies are abusing its citizens. And the more we remain passive, the more they will screw us. I recall the media saying that there was no way that AIB would dare to put an insider into the position of new chief executive…and then they did. They knew the response from the government and the people would be pathetic. Now we see that Bank Of Ireland have given Richie (pal of Larry Goodman) Boucher a huge increase in his pension. They steal my taxes to save their asses and then they line their own pockets. Why? Because these people are souless, sociopaths who only care about their holiday homes and their shareholders. AIB are running their campaign at the moment advertising their sponsorship of the Irish Ladies Open. They have no money to run their company, but they have money to sponsor golf tournaments. They even throw in that old tag-line “supporting clubs – supporting communities.” Because AIB’s sponsorship of golf tournaments really helps my old neighbourhood in Crumlin. Thanks to the way these leeches have fucked up the country they are closing down the local swimming baths in Crumlin, but in Foxrock and Greystones they are “supporting clubs – supporting communities.” These guys have no interest in communities. And the only club they are interested in is the boy’s club to which they belong. A couple of weeks time, all of the top banks, solicitors firms, and brokers will be sending tickets and hospitality for the Heineken cup rugby final in Paris. They organise these little trips and call them “marketing.” My taxes have paid for AIB’s “marketing” programme which enables them to bring some wealthy stockbroker and solicitor to Paris on a boys piss-up. If AIB really cared about communities they would cancel all of their “marketing” this year and pay to keep Crumlin and Sean Mc Dermot’s swimming baths open. Fat chance. The only thing that keeps me going is the thought that when this all breaks down, Foxrock and Greystones will be where the anger will head.

  42.  

    NAMA is a managerial solution put in place by managment, simple end of story..The number people who deregulated everything in the belief that western individuality was so fucking great that nothing needed to be controlled. Well big supprise now we are all in the shit and what can we do??? Fuck all
    A revolution is the only thing that could save us now but in reality it will be one led by Enda Kenny and the pretend labor party (i think a long death awaits)so maybe we could invent a time machine and shoot Thatcher and Regan and that other shock therapy prick. One thing is for sure RTE (TV)will tame the crowd with its vomit discussion and clarity.

  43.  

    For fucks sake! It is reported that N.A.M.A. is to pay salaries of €500,000 a year to finish their ghost developments to the DEVELOPERS! What is going on in this kip?

  44.  

    A flock of sheep for a population and the lack of a heart for revolution is the answer to you question. Only when some people in elite circles are shot will those that draw up the injustice and the lawyers who implement them stop and fear what their actions may incur for themselves and their families. Liam Carroll owes this state a fortune which you and I are paying for. Shaky Liam still lives in Mount Merrion luxery because his son, who is now running things, gets the family home put into the wife’s name. FME and Bock himself have viewed me as some kind of nut on this subject, but the truth is when you can’t beat the unashamable and the sociopath with media coverage and the law that they throw in our face; the only way to defeat them is with violence. It will come. It always does. And Mount Merrion and Dalkey will be in flames wheather you think I am insane or not.

    Darren Williams

  45.  

    Darren regrettably anyone with a notion of real change have already left ,or are about to leave ,this “Green and Pleasant Land”. The Golden Circle rule. The sheep will follow the Judas goat to have their throat slit. I note from an earlier post that you are in Africa. Change if it is to come will be based in Ireland. However I am not holding my breath.

  46.  

    If a building is rotten to the core it will eventually collapse. It’s inhabitants could choose to demolish it now and build something better thereby speeding up the process. Or they could ignore the rot, as most Irish seem to do, and the building (system) will collapse anyway but the process will be drawn out.

  47.  

    Surprise, Surprise ! NAMA have bought a pig in a poke. With the vendor over the hills and far away. They have now opened the poke to find a rabid pup with a bad case of mange. Having spent a fortune on salaries on the “great and good” to run NAMA they trusted the Banks figures. At least a banana Republic has bananas.

  48.  

    if talk was power we would rule the fucking world.tv ,…radio.every day the same,talk fucking talk.drag me outa my armchair when the revolu.tion starts.

  49.  

    @Gary. I am not in Africa (although it looks like a fucking jungle out there). Not too sure where you got the African thing from, but things as they are – in the words of Colm Moulding – “You have got to admit that we have come a long way from swinging around in the trees. We’re the smartest monkies.” If we are, I wonder how stupid are our simian brothers.

    Darren

  50.  

    Darren apologies I can not find where I got the Africa notion from . There again I had forgotten this thread.
    Wonderful is it not that the Banks having lost billions are blaming NAMA and screwing the mortgage holders and tax payers to pay?

  51.  

    “AIB have asked the government to extend the banking guarentee.” Wow, wasn’t expecting that.

    Perhaps the below deserves a thread of its own:

    During the 1990s scandal in France involving Credit Lyonnais which had to be bailed out by the French tax payer to tune of more than 100 Billions French Francs, the regulation and supervision of the banks was under the control of one Jean Claude Trauchet. The French government drip fed the bad news to the French tax payer whose financial exposure to this disaster increased every week. Finally the French government set up a “bad bank” called The Consortium de Realisation…is any of this sounding familiar? As part of a deal to pay back money to investors and bond-holders, some of the most prominent names in the scandal are exempt from prosecution. In 1998, Crédit Lyonnais sells Credit Lyonnais (Austria) to, have a guess, that’s right, Anglo Irish Bank. Jean Claude Treauchet was investigated for his roll in this scandal, but was found to be in no way implicated or to blame. In fact, they promote him to head of the European Central Bank, from where is now saying that the European banks are well capitalised and healthy. At least Brian Cowen knows he has a job in Europe when he finishes screwing up this Island.

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