Mavi Marmara Fake Auschwitz Video

 Posted by on June 4, 2010  Add comments
Jun 042010
 

Here’s a video of the Israeli navy speaking to the captain of the Mavi Marmara before intercepting it.

And here’s a fake of the same conversation, released on the IDF’s own blog, with voices crudely dubbed over a still of the video.  The clip purports to be a recording of the Mavi Marmara’s Turkish crew shouting (In English, with American accents) about Auschwitz and 9/11.

Comments on the Youtube clip and on the blog are disabled, presumably to prevent anyone pointing out the fake.

So here we have the Israeli Defence Forces apparently using the memory of Auschwitz to falsify a video associating the people on board the relief ship with Nazism.   If an Israeli institution is prepared to use the Holocaust this way, then nothing whatever that the IDF say about this incident can be believed.

If this turns out to be true, and on the face of it, I can’t think of a reasonable alternative explanation, then the IDF has lost all credibility.

____________

Story repeated on the Jerusalem Post

  74 Responses to “Mavi Marmara Fake Auschwitz Video”

Comments (74)
  1.  

    Israel hides behind the holocost. Because that happened they think they have the moral high ground to commit a holocost on whoever they deem an enemy

  2.  

    The level of incompetence, both in the attack itself, and the subsequent propaganda, is astounding.

    Incidentally, the autopsies of the dead released (six activists are still missing), show all but one were shot at close range, some from behind.

    Hardly a fire fight – more likely cold-blooded murder. Either the troops lost it, or they were “only obeying orders”. Either way, it doesn’t look good for the IDF.

  3.  

    They are flooding the internet and general media with poisonous slanders.I have never seen them so desperate.If this state was an individual it would be put in a lunatic asylum.They should never have been allowed to develope a nuclear arsenal,they are an intolerable danger to the world.Anyhow I hope its not a precursor to another massacre when the next ship goes in,which is today I think.

  4.  

    To where one listens – idiots; and not just in the classical sense.

  5.  

    Can’t we expel their wretched Ambassador yet? Or do we have to wait until they kill some of our citizens?

  6.  

    Who can have belief in international law, when there are NO consequences for acts of multiple murder ?

    The UN created the state of Isreal out of thin air, and they should recognise their mistake, and dissolve this murderous autonomous zone which is nothing more than an excuse for a bunch of real terrorists masquarading as peaceful passivists ‘protecting’ themselves against the ‘evil’ of unarmed humanitarian aid workers.

    Who are the real fascists in this world that so many good people died to defend in WW1 and WW2 ?

    Time to stop with the lies and propaganda from jewish owned mass media.

    Time for the UN to send the UN forces to protect the flotillas, and for countries to kick out the IsraHELL diplomats. This means you Ireland, or will you only act when one of our own is murdered ?

    God Bless the UN SECRETARY

    God Bless the Aid Workers

    God Bless the families of the children murdered by these despots

  7.  

    The Israelis have been wrong footed here and they have handled the situation badly. The second clip above would be chicken feed for any intelligence agency to put out to discredit the IDF, almost certainly a black ops by some party or Israeli intelligence in a type of double bluff to muddy the waters.

    “Peaceful and well motivated humanitarians are being maniplulated by Hamas to get the port of Gaza re-opened to facilitate the importation of weapons, IMO.

  8.  

    How do you reckon they got it onto the official IDF blog?

  9.  

    The communications are not the same.

    One is :
    ” Mavi Marmara . You are approaching an area of hostility which in under naval blockade “.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKOmLP4yHb4&NR=1

    The other :

    ” Defne Y : You are approaching an area wich in under naval blockade ”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxY7Q7CvQPQ&feature=player_embedded

    this is this second record that, according to israel, does show an exchange of words in wich the mavi marmara send the israelis to auschwitz .
    This make little sense since the Israelis were adressing the NEVE Y , not the Mavi Marmara.
    That tape is showed in video 1 and Mavi Marmara fellows dont even interrupt the Israelis.

  10.  

    There was a Turkish-American kid shot dead, so accents alone won’t tell anything.

  11.  

    Look. It’s an obvious fake. It’s laughable.

    As Judge Judy says, don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

    Is that the same Turkish-American kid who was shot in the back of the head from a distance of eighteen inches?

  12.  

    It’s probably a fake. But the accents don’t tell you that. And yes, he was shot in the back of the head.

  13.  

    The Turkish kid who was executed had American citizenship but moved back to Turkey when he was 2 years old, so propably doesn’t have a perfect Amecian accent.

    Yes Israel is all too fond of invoking the holocaust in order to justify their actions, yet stay strangely quiet on Zionisms own links to Nazi Germany. There is an Israeli military commendation called the Lehi Ribbon. This is named after the Lehi group, better known as the Stern gang, who were, by Israeli standards, a terrorist organisation who fought the British mandate in Palestine in order to establish a Zionist Israel. Their leader, Avraham Stern offered the Nazis to create jewish militias to fight with Germany against the British.
    Very little is said about this, inspite of the fact that the photo of Hitler metting the Mufti has regularily been released and re-released by successive Israeli governments in order to imply a link between it’s Arab neighbours and Nazi Germany.
    Early Zionists saw Germany’s goal of ridding itself of Jewish people as being in line with Zionists wishes for large scale Jewish immigration into Palestine. After all, you can’t colonise without colonists.

    Interesting too, that they should mention 9/11 when the only people found acting suspiciously in New York on that day was a Mossad team who filmed the whole event from a roof top and were seen jumping up and down in what looked like celebration, or at least it looke enough like celebration for witnesses to call the police who eventually tracked the men down and held them for detention until it was confirmed they were Mossad, where upon they were released. Apparently when the men were stopped by police in their van, they were heard to say that they were Isreali, and not Palestinians, as if it were the Palestinians who had carried out the attack.

    So, all in all the same hypocracy as ever.
    Plus ça change…

  14.  

    America is also spied on more by Israel than by any other nation.The relationship between the USA and Israel is probably one of the strangest in history.As one author put it “something akin to a host and parasite relationship”.One of those ones where the parasite gets the host to work in its interest.

  15.  

    Nothing should surprise us where Zionists are concerned. Rumsfeld could be viewed as a mere naive boy scout by comparison.

  16.  

    In result of a post I did in a pro Israeli forum the video was changed and it was posted online the full tape.

    Look here

    http://mideasttruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9848

  17.  

    C’est: That diatribe has to be one of the most disgusting and misleading things I have ever seen on this site. It throws your credibility on any Israeli or Jewish topic into complete disrepute.

    Israel hasn’t just used one infamous photo to ‘allege’ Palestinian leaders sided with the Nazis. The close association of these two is well documented; both by the Allies and modern historians. The Mufti offered the services of his Arab Legion to the Nazis to counter the Jewish Brigade which fought with the Allies. The Muslim SS brigade formed by the Mufti killed tens of thousands of Jews and Orthodox Christians in the Balkans, their brutality during the war only matched by Croatian fascists. Many Palestinian Arabs he brought with him subsequently fought against the fledgling State of Israel, including many militia officers who had learned their trade from the SS. The Mufti was a wanted war criminal after the war, and Yugoslavia especially lobbied for his extradition. He was also wanted by the British, but his status as an Arab hero and elected leader made the British hesitate at capturing him when he was in Egypt. Winston Churchill, however, called the Mufti ‘the deadliest enemy’, especially as he had helped with the pro-Nazi coup in Iraq and organised pogroms there that killed hundreds of Jews. The content of the Mufti’s wartime radio broadcasts are well known and constituted Nazi propaganda for the Arab world.

    As closure to this point, it’s interesting to note that many former unrepentant Nazis found safe haven in the Muslim world, including Johann von Leers, who converted to Islam and wrote ‘anti-Zionist’ propaganda for the Egyptian government up to his death. These links continue today, with the former head of the British neo-Nazi movement, David Myatt, recently converting to Islam.

    The Stern Gang by contrast were a tiny group, comprising of a few hundred members at the most, smaller than CIRA today. They specialised in gangland-style assassinations. The Haganah, the main Jewish militia, never collaborated with the Stern Gang, and denounced both the Lehi and the Irgun repeatedly. Posters survive today from the Haganah warning Jews to have no contact with either organisation, whom they dubbed ‘terrorists’ and ‘murderers’. In the interests of national unity, they received an amnesty from Israel after the War of Independence – around the time the newly-formed IDF attacked the Irgun off the coast of Tel Aviv and outlawed them forever. The gang itself was banned for good.

    The Lehi’s infamous letter to the Nazis, which proposed collaboration for the safe passage of Jews to Eretz Israel, was never responded to. Nothing came of it. When news of it leaked to the public, the Lehi lost virtually all its support amongst the Jews and never became the major organisation it hoped to be. The position of Ben Gurion was absolutely clear. The Jews would fight both World War II on the side of the Allies, and fight the White Paper against the British. Ben Gurion certainly had no permanent office in Berlin during the war as the Palestinian leadership had. The Lehi merely prove that there are stupid Jews in the world.
    Today, their equivalent can be found in extremist groups like Kach and on American campuses in figures like Norman Finkelstein.

    The 9/11 stuff is just nonsense, and to respond to it would be pointless. Addressing it with any seriousness is an insult to the concept of seriousness itself. I will only argue such allegations if they are part of a wider debate on whether Elvis is still alive, Paul McCartney is dead, or homeopathy has any benefit to human health whatsoever.

    The word ‘Jew’ cannot be replaced by ‘Zionist’ and grant the commenter immunity from suspicion.

    The IDF have released the full 6-minute recording of the incident, by the way.

    http://idfspokesperson.com/2010/06/05/clarificationcorrection-regarding-audio-transmission-between-israeli-navy-and-flotilla-on-31-may-2010-posted-on-5-june-2010/

  18.  

    This is becoming embarrassing.

    Could the IDF just stop now before they make complete idiots of themselves?

    Please. Monty Python has already been done, by professionals.

  19.  

    Comedy, you call it? Laughing at hunger?

    How very Teutonic of you.

    How about sending this video to the World Health Organisation, Amnesty International and UNWRA?

    Having listened to these smug rich kids, maybe they’ll realise how stupid they’ve been.

    What do you reckon?

  20.  

    UNRWA is a stupid organisation, and the first man to head the farce agreed it would do more harm than good and left.

    ‘How very Teutonic of you’

    Why would you slander a whole race of people like that, Bock?

    Rich kids? Caroline Glick is in her forties. The kids sipping skinny lattes were wearing keffiyehs of the Gaza flotilla.

    Did you know one of the boats had 78 people on it, and not a piece of humanitarian aid?

    A good friend of mine pointed out that not long ago Hamas, Hezbollah and prominent supporters in London got together in Lebanon. The Hamas leader said there would be a confrontation with the ‘Zionist enemy’ and that it would happen on the sea.

    The ‘aid’ boats were a front for this planned confrontation, nothing more.

  21.  

    That video laughs at the idea that there’s hunger or crisis in Gaza.

    You call it comedy.

    Are you prepared to stand over that description?

  22.  

    It all started with your post .

    IDF clarifies: ‘Go back to Auschwitz’ recording edited, but authentic
    According to IDF clarification, it is not clear who is speaking on recording that was originally publicized as recording of Mavi Marmara passengers.
    Tags: IDF Gaza flotilla

    The Israel Defense Force Spokesperson’s Unit released a clarification on Saturday regarding an audio recording on which passengers of a Gaza aid flotilla ship can be heard telling IDF soldiers to “Go back to Auschwitz” and that they are “helping Arabs go against the U.S., don’t forget 9/11.”

    Questions have arisen regarding the authenticity of the recording, which was released by the IDF on Friday after clashes aboard the flotilla’s largest ship, the Mavi Marmara, left 9 Turkish activists dead and dozens hurt last Monday.

    In its clarification, the IDF explained that the audio recording was edited to reduce long periods of silence and to eliminate incomprehensible comments. The IDF further clarified that though the recording was originally attributed to passengers aboard the Mavi Marmara, due to “an open channel, the specific ship or ships in the Freedom Flotilla responding to the Israeli Navy could not be identified.”

    The IDF Spokesperson’s Unit further announced that they have posted the full unedited 5 minute and 58 second recording online.

    The release of the audio recording was another step taken by the IDF to solidify the claim that the passengers of the Mavi Marmara were determined to attack the soldiers who boarded the deck, and that the soldiers were acting in self defense.

    According to early findings of a navy investigation, during Israel’s takeover of the Turkish ship some passengers tried to take captive three navy commandos, who had lost consciousness as a result of the activists’ blows.

    After dozens of other commandos began searching the Mavi Marmara, the three soldiers regained consciousness and managed to join their comrades.

  23.  

    TSW
    Ah the old disingenuous, “Criticism of Zionist is reeally criticism of jews”. Sorry, that one washed thread bare along time ago.
    The fact remains, Stern offered to collaborate. The Nazis no doubt felt such collaboration with jews to be “beneath” them. They were a terrorists, by the resent Israeli defintition. Despite all your talk of dennounciation, they were granted amnesty and the Lehi Ribbon has become an Isreali military commmendation.

    Oh and as to the part you feel “Addressing it with any seriousness is an insult to the concept of seriousness itself”; Well

    …she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. “They seemed to be taking a movie,” Maria said.

    The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background, she said. What struck Maria were the expressions on the men’s faces. “They were like happy, you know … They didn’t look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange,” she said.

    She found the behavior so suspicious that she wrote down the license plate number of the van and called the police. Before long, the FBI was also on the scene, and a statewide bulletin was issued on the van.
    The plate number was traced to a van owned by a company called Urban Moving. Around 4 p.m. on Sept. 11, the van was spotted on a service road off Route 3, near New Jersey’s Giants Stadium. A police officer pulled the van over, finding five men, between 22 and 27 years old, in the vehicle. The men were taken out of the van at gunpoint and handcuffed by police.

    The arresting officers said they saw a lot that aroused their suspicion about the men. One of the passengers had $4,700 in cash hidden in his sock. Another was carrying two foreign passports. A box cutter was found in the van. But perhaps the biggest surprise for the officers came when the five men identified themselves as Israeli citizens.

    ‘We Are Not Your Problem’

    According to the police report, one of the passengers told the officers they had been on the West Side Highway in Manhattan “during the incident” — referring to the World Trade Center attack. The driver of the van, Sivan Kurzberg, told the officers, “We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.” The other passengers were his brother Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari.
    SOURCE

    ” Since their arrest, plenty of speculation has swirled about the case, and what the five men were doing that morning. Eventually, The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were Israeli intelligence operatives.

    Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of operations for counterterrorism with the CIA who is now a consultant for ABCNEWS, said federal authorities’ interest in the case was heightened when some of the men’s names were found in a search of a national intelligence database. “
    SOURCE

    It’s easy to talk about losing “credibility” when you never had any to begin with, TSW. Now you said,
    “The word ‘Jew’ cannot be replaced by ‘Zionist’ and grant the commenter immunity from suspicion.”
    You have not disproved on thing I wrote even though with a typical Israeli-like arrogance you dismissed it as being as true as “whether Elvis is still alive, Paul McCartney is dead, or homeopathy has any benefit to human health whatsoever.”
    You also accused me of being anti-jewish.

    Will you take back any of this? I doubt it. You’re a hypocritical little mouth piece who will defend his indoctrination tooth and nail. Discussing Israel with you is like discussing clerical child abuse with a member of Youth Defence.
    But if you want to talk anti-semitism, I’d remind you that the Palestinians are a semite people, like all Arabs, and the people who regularly discriminate against them based on their religion and their ethnicity are Israelis.

  24.  

    TSW’s reply will be released from moderation when he deals with the issue he brought up himself: a video that laughs at Palestinian starvation.

    I asked him if he was prepared to stand over his description of it as comedy.

  25.  

    It is clearly meant to be a satirical video. The point being there is no danger of mass death due to starvation and disease in Gaza. It is mocking the people on the flotilla more than anything else, and the Red-Green alliance’s hi-jacking of language. Like the supposed ‘aid’ boat with 78 people travelling for a photo-op in Gaza but containing absolutely no aid.

  26.  

    You described the video as comedy. Do you stand over that description?

  27.  

    Objectively speaking, it is a comedic (more appropriately, satirical) video. If not everybody finds it funny, fine. That’s life.

  28.  

    I see. And you would presumably agree with its content, would you?

  29.  

    I stand over the fact that the video is satirical.

    May my response to C’est be shown? You said it would.

  30.  

    As soon as we have finished this relevant part of the thread, your reply to C’est le Craic wil be unmoderated. After that, I would ask you bot to desist from the off-topic squabble and stick to the point of this post, which is about demonising the Mavi Marmara.

    Yyou have failed to say whether you agree with the sentiments of the video, and I’d like you to indicate whether you do or not.

    After that, I’ll be inviting you to deal with a matter you avoided a little earlier, and then you can return briefly to the irrelevant argument about 9-11, but not for long. Your reply will be the final comment on that offshoot of the discussion.

  31.  

    You said the comment would be shown if I said whether I agreed with the description of the video is comedy. I gave my response and now you have changed the terms.

    Do I agree with the sentiment? I think it is a very funny satire of a large section of this ‘Free’ Gaza movement. I like Caroline Glick and to see her in the video I enjoyed very much.

  32.  

    The best thing we could do about this conflict is absolutely nothing. We know that the majority of israelis and palestinians just want to get on with their lives and live in peace. With constant meddling via the USA, EU, Russia, UN, activists etc we are making the situation a lot worse. Taking sides will offend the other side and more trouble breaks out.

  33.  

    Maybe we should all take the above advice from Mossy. Meantime, Turkey and that bastion of freedom Iran, want to accompany future flotillas to Gaza with warships according to the Jerusalem Post – how do you imagine the IDF will respond to that? Will they be handing out flowers to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard? Iranian President, Mahmoud Ah-mad -inejad, a man who is on record as saying that Israel and six million Jews – ominous number – should be wiped off the map, and who is going the business of trying to acquire nuclear arms to do it, is all for the above. Moreover, last week the Times reported that three German built Israeli nuclear subs were in the Persian Gulf, one will stay there permanently and its commander has the authorization to unleash hell, probably in the direction of Teheran. Prior to that, Obama sanctioned reconnaissance flights over Iran, a sign by many that Iran is being lined to be wacked. It’s getting like a 21st century Cuban missile crisis – the Americans also had a naval blockade – out there. They all won’t be happy until they drag the planet into WW3 with nukes. Well, I suppose the environmentalist do say that the world is over populated….

  34.  

    “According to the Jerualem Post” (sic) get a reality check!!.

  35.  

    TSW — You seem quite unable to give a straight answer to a straight question. I did not ask you if you thought it was satirical. I asked you if you agreed with it.

    Secondly, please stop misquoting people. I did not tell you that your comment would be released once you had answered this question. I said it would be released when you dealt with the issue arising from your posting of the so-called comedy video.

    So far you have dodged every question I put to you about it.

    Remember, I didn’t post the link to the video. You did. THerefore, you leave yourself open to questions about it.

    So I will ask you again. Do you agree with the sentiments in the satirical video you invited us all to watch?

    Going back to my comment # 20, you dismissed UNWRA as a “stupid” organisation. Are the WHO and Amnesty International also stupid organisations?

    And is John Ging, a former Irish army officer who heads UNWRA in Gaza also stupid?

  36.  

    Oh well, that settles it then. If the IDF say it’s real, it must be real.

    Incidentally, having read some of your website, I’m reeling at the obscenity of your ethnic cleansing views. You are truly a living testament that people learn nothing from oppression.

  37.  

    Yes I agree with much of the video’s message. I said that already. Now is this the end of the video interrogation? Do we have to expolore it from all angles until I can get my response shown?

    UNRWA should have been disbanded long ago and its mandate placed with the UNHCR. UNRWA’s model fosters dependency. They are, in the words of Ed Koch, ‘welfare pimps’. It used to provide good schools but they seem to have declined for the third generation of ‘refugees’. UNRWA also acts as a lobby group on behalf of the Palestinians which I don’t think is fair. That is tax money from the international community. How would people react if their taxes had to fund the Jewish Agency to act as a balance?

    Amnesty and others aren’t inherently bad organisations and do much good. Unlike UNRWA, they have a legitimate purpose. Much has been made recently of a bias in Amnesty, but I think that is down to Arab oil money seeping into the organisation, whose donors want to force an agenda on the organisation.

    I have seen John Ging in the flesh. He doesn’t strike me as a very nice person, particularly intelligent or someone with a deep understanding of the conflict and its history. But I’m sure his heart is in the right place. Its just difficult to see him having any impact really, other than having good stature in the European media. UNRWA is just too corrupt, dysfunctional and rotten to its core. “Sustained relief operations inevitably contain the germ of human deterioration” its first director claimed. UNRWA perpetuates poverty, which of course was what the Arab countries wanted all along. I can’t believe the US is still footing two-thirds of its bills.

  38.  

    You find yourself in disagreement with the Israeli government then. Do you not?

  39.  

    Sorry Bock, my intention wasn’t to bring the subject off topic but as that spoof video implies that the Turkish or the Palestinians, or perhaps just every Arab have dubious links with Nazis and 9/11, I felt it might be worth showing Zionsism’s and Israel’s own links to said events. Then the old “you say Zionist but what you mean is Jew!” shite started to imply anti-jewish motivations on my part plus the off hand dismissal of my points as false, so I provided sources. People can google Avraham Stern themselves, and the Israelis found filming the day of 9/11. For christ sake they even went on an Israeli talk show when they got back saying they wanted to document the event and this fool TSW compares it to talking about Elvis being alive.

  40.  

    TSW has great difficulty handling multi-part discussions. In my experience, he has the capacity to handle no more than one point at a time. Everything else is ignored. Therefore, I have no option but to take an extremely linear and analytical approach when discussing matters with him.

  41.  

    “I can’t believe the US is still footing two-thirds of its bills.”

    And Isreal? How much of their bill are the US footing? How much of the wall did they finance?

    If you approached John Ging with the same attitude you have displayed here then I wouldn’t be surprised if he showed you the disdain you deserve. He is dealing with the human cost of the humanitarian crisis caused by the government you so doggedly defend. You were proabably lucky to get away without a shoe in the hole, but then if he’d tried you probably would just have pulled out your Gloch and busted a cap in his ass! Might is right after all…

  42.  

    Bock: I believe I answered all your questions in No. 39.

    C’est: You can also Google the size and significance of Stern’s operation. Versus that of Palestine’s Founding Father, Husseini. All it proves is that there are stupid Jews. But you are desperately trying to tarnish Israel and the Zionist movement by bringing up the actions of a very small minority. Unfortunately I cannot argue with you on this as Bock still seems to be moderating my counter-post.

  43.  

    Indeed you did. And I will now unmoderate your reply to CLC with the time modified to make sure it appears in a visible location. Let it be the end of that particular cul-de-sac.

    The Israeli government has disowned your video with following statement:

    The contents of the video in no way represent the official policy of either the Government Press Office or of the State of Israel.

    But of course, with people such as yourself to put it out there, the Israeli government has no need to take responsibility for hate-filled material.

    Has Lionel Richie given permission for publication of his song in this way?

  44.  

    C’est: The Lehi were officially denounced, were minuscule in number and never co-operated with the mainstream Jewish organisations. There are plenty of surviving print materials released by the Haganah and IDF out there that prove this. They were dubbed terrorists by the IDF as far back back as 1948, and by the Haganah before that.

    The Mufti was the leader of the Palestinian Arabs and essentially the founder of Palestinian nationalism. I smirk when Israel is compared to Nazi Germany as it is a good time to point out the Palestinian Arab’s connection with and active support for Nazism. I can point out that I have met more than one Palestinian named ‘Adolf’ or ‘Eichmann’ (‘just like the Nazi’, they always grin).

    The Lehi ribbon is merely something for ex-Lehi members to wear, introduced under either Shamir or Begin (the former being ex-Lehi). Its not some honorific that can be awarded to anybody.

    Lots of countries grant amnesty in these situations, in the interests of community cohesion. Few wanted a civil war, and for civil war politics to dominate Israel in the years to come. A country had to be built, and a properly functioning state demands not having unrecognised armed groups running around the place. The new government forcibly disbanded the Lehi, and made sure the IDF and police would have a sole monopoly on force. It was a painful decision for Israel to attack the Irgun after the war was over. There are still those who lament the fact Ben Gurion’s first act as Prime Minister was to kill Jews. But Ben Gurion realised that the new state needed complete legitimacy, and a state with multiple militias fighting their own battles against enemies you have a ceasefire with would make the country a basket case, like the PA is today.

    We have been through this ‘anti-Semitism’ definition before. Its a cheap tactic to try and accuse Israelis of ‘anti-Semitism’ when the origins of the term are well known. Cheap and tired.

    Did you know Churchill did a little jig when he heard Pearl Harbour was attacked? And of course you know Palestinians held large celebrations on the streets, as did many Muslim countries, and even Muslims in the West are known to have organised parties.

  45.  

    ‘The contents of the video in no way represent the official policy of either the Government Press Office or of the State of Israel.’

    Why would it be? It comes from Caroline Glick’s own website, latma.co.il.

  46.  

    Indeed. Let’s laugh at the people behind the wall. It’s a tradition that came from Europe. We did it so well, and you learned so well. Why change now?

    Despicable.

    Anyway, let’s see what Lionel thinks of this perversion of his song.

  47.  

    Israel is perfectly entitled to build a wall around Gaza, that border is defined and internationally recognised. The security fence around Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria is the controversial one.

  48.  

    I mentioned laughing at the people behind the wall. Did you miss that?

    People.

  49.  

    By the way, the reason I have often decided not to answer questions is because some people have a tendency to ask so many at once. One commenter here used to just list out a dozen common misconceptions about Israel and expect me or someone else to address them all. This of course, would lead to ridiculously lengthy comments.

  50.  

    Its primarily laughing at the activists on the flotilla and Islamic fundamentalism, in my opinion.

  51.  

    I don’t do that.

    I ask carefully-constructed questions, and put well-formulated points.

    You cherry-pick them, ignoring the parts that don’t suit you, and obscure the issue with long, rambling, and often irrelevant essays. I believe this is a deliberate tactic to throw the discussion off course.

    This is why I find myself forced to moderate your comments.

  52.  

    TSW
    What difference does it make if the Lehi group represented a small number of Zionists. That extremist Islamist only represent a small proportion of Palestinians doesn’t seem to occur to you. You seem quite happy to ignore the fact that the majority of Hamas voters, as a propable majority of early Zionist terrorist supporters, might only be supportive because they are pissed off with the way they ae treated by the Occupying force, in Israeli’s case the British, in the Palestinian’s, the Israelis.
    Yet Israel is happy to imply, infer and down right lie about it’s opponnents (that slowly becoming everyone, through it’s actions) without acknowledging any of their own skeletons in the closet.

    Early Zionism’s connections to Nazism are as tenuous as Palestinian’s. A half thought out strategy during a global power play with an uncertain out come.
    Like wise, there is no Palestinian connection to 9/11 that I know of, apart the fact that they are Arab and Muslum, yet Israel has some interesting, to say the least, ties. And even if they are completely innocent they rest more concrete then any accusations against Palestinians.

    This is why the obviously doctored video is so insulting to the intelligence of people here. And it is becoming typical too, of the Israeli spin machine that goes into overdrive when the shit hits the fan. The video is an obvious fake, that doesn’t try to deal with the facts of the incident itself, an incident we now learn involved multiple, almost point blank shots to the head, execution style, but rather tries to infer some horribly uncouth nd uncivilised motivation on the part of the people on the boat, as if they somehow deserved what they got.

    And that is but one reason why I, and many others, find the actions of the israeli government to be inadmissable and dispicable, and your defence of said actions likewise.

  53.  

    C’est: I have indeed encountered someone who volunteered with the IDF who admitted to me he was happy about Islamic terrorist attacks on Europe, as he thought it would encourage them to invade Islamic nations and bring democracy to the Islamic world. He didn’t have the same attitude with America, as he is a born and bred New Yorker. There have always been people who think like that. Its been a sad reality over time, and it has not bypassed iconic leaders like Winston Churchill. The majority of Israelis would be horrified at such an attitude. They have been through waves of terrorism and would not wish it on any country.

    But with the Nazi thing you are desperately searching for moral equivalency when there is none. The Stern Gang wrote a letter that was never answered.The Mufti has the blood of tens of thousands on his hands. Even Edward Said and Christopher Hitchens, on page 216 of their book ‘Blaming the Victims’ admit the Mufti was the undisputed popular leader of the Palestinians, and his popularity continues today. Arafat called him ‘our hero Husseini’. Of course, what the Stern Gang did is evil. Victor Frankl avoided trodding on German oats when he was released from a concentration camp, half-starved in his striped uniform and barely able to walk. Our suffering cannot harden us to the suffering of others. Palestinians have tried to justify the most atrocious acts on account of being occupied and having to deal with check-points every day. We must be better than that.

  54.  

    You maybe as well arguing with the wailing wall as arguing with TSW. Israel acting as the little brother, can afford to push people around because its bigger brother, after subduing Iraq, is set for Iran because of weapons they maybe producing. At least Iran happens to be a signatory member of the nuclear Non-proliferation treaty-only Pakistan, India, North Korea and Israel abstain.
    The U.S will not offer aid to any country that is’nt a member of the treaty, yet Israel profits from $7m dollars of U.S aid a day. Why dos’nt Israel allow inspectors in? America is owned but then like any war they may fight in, it will be disasterous and dirty -carpet bombs, phosphour, agent orange.
    The statment from the U.S was that “it was regretable” the loss of life on the flotilla despite international outrage and has been painfully quiet since.
    Any soul on a ship in international waters is intitled to defend themselves against piracy, be it with kitchen knives, iron bars, dirty knickers or whatever. The dirty tactics and propaganda are wearing thin something more sinister is afoot .
    America (and the rest of the world) is kept in a shroud of terror since 911, for Israeli gain- is that why Mossad agents celebrated on a roof top after the attack on the twin towers?
    An Irish commentator and former Israeli sympathiser stated that Gaza is a third the size of our smallest county, cram 1.5 million extremist people in there, whose lands were stolen from them and its like shaking a can of coke vigorously, cracking it open and wondering why its making such a mess. But you dont care because Iran will get steamrolled by the heavyhanded tactics of the U.S anyway and the spoilt little brother will have its way and no boycotts will make a damned difference.

  55.  

    “Our suffering cannot harden us to the suffering of others.”

    Said without a hint of irony.

  56.  

    two words – joe duffy. nuff said

  57.  

    A brave woman to stand up to those rabid dogs.So much for Israeli “democracy”.

  58.  

    An article in todays Irish Times by the Israeli Ambassador Zion Evrony ( Iron Irony ), is an attempt to rewritehistory he even jumps forward 20 years to become a historion himself.

  59.  

    He actually wrote it 20 years in the future, using the new Israeli time-travel weapon.

  60.  

    I do know that Alice in Wonderland is not a thread here but it seems to me that if you ignore it from an Isreali point of view you are in some very serious shit!

  61.  

    Bock at risk of reinvigoration the I.D.F , Mossad., Shin Bet and all of their glove puppets on this site ,
    Have you heard that Irish Christians for Israel marched in front of their embassy? How sick is that?
    Ignoring piracy, kidnap and murder. As a people just how low can we go?

  62.  

    Heard about those nut jobs before.Who are they?.Last time I heard of them same number was mentioned around 50.

  63.  

    Those Israelis … They are something else!

  64.  

    Those feuding Muslims and Jews should settle their differences in a Christian manner, as Irish politician Liam Cosgrave reportedly said around 1955 after Ireland had been admitted to the UN. Bock the self-declared Jususian might offer his diplomatic mediation services, eh?

  65.  

    Are you stupid? How is it the same conversation?

    First clip: “…you are approaching an area of hostilities”

    Second clip: “…you are approaching an area which is under a naval blockade”

    To any reasonable and impartial person it is evident that both a seperate warnings – they don’t just warn them once you know? Now to an inherently biased “anti-Zionist” this is empirical evidence which proves your predisposed conclusion that Israel lies, cheats and plays the “Holocaust card”. Idiot.

  66.  

    That’s right. I’m stupid. Now fuck off.

  67.  

    The IDF issued a clarification, did they?

    Well, that’s all right, then.

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