NAMA Will Lose Hundreds of Millions

Lies and more lies9999

What’s that they said?  Nama was going to make a profit of, oh, three or four billion?

Wasn’t that what they told us?  We’d all be winners because Nama, somehow, by magic, was going to take all these shit loans and empty hotels and turn them into folding cash money, even though the banks and the developers were unable to do the same thing.

So, what are they telling us now?

Apparently Nama is going to lose several hundred million because — here’s a surprise — the banks didn’t tell the full truth about how bad the loans were.

Imagine.  The banks lied.  Are you shocked?

No.  Neither am I.

After all, didn’t the top bankers walk into Biffo’s office in the middle of the night in September 2008 and lie through their teeth?  And didn’t Biffo and Yehudi shit themselves and immediately extend a blanket guarantee to all the banks, plus the gamblers who took a punt on them?

There’s some consolation in all this though.  Ireland has produced a world-leader in Anglo.  It’s now officially the worst bank in the world, having lost more money than any other bank anywhere in the world.

Do you remember the way we used to make these little boasts about punching above our weight in the European Union?  Well, thanks to Anglo, we can now claim to be embezzling above our weight internationally.

Do you feel a little thump of pride in your chest?  For myself, I can tell you, there’s a manly tear brimming in my eye as I write this.  Ireland leading the world yet again.

As my friend and colleague, Mr Darwin, remarked in a timely email today:

So, if I understand correctly, this financial meltdown was caused by the banks selling bad debts to each other by fraudulent means. So the Irish government’s solution was to buy debts from the banks, who promptly lied to them and just sold them more bad debts. Priceless (literally).

That pretty much sums it up.

There’s nothing I can add.

46 thoughts on “NAMA Will Lose Hundreds of Millions

  1. Will we all shout ‘incompetent’ at the same time or are we getting closer to the point where we will call a spade a spade, and a prison cell a prison cell. My guess is the former.

  2. Bock – agree wholeheartedly.
    I am sick of ‘new’ developments coming out every day about NAMA when all concerned at the time should have known that lies, lies and more lies were being told to prop up the chancers.
    Well done to Darwin who puts it all into perspective quite succinctly.
    ps – you may want to amend ‘coinsolation’ in the post.

  3. This is by far the worst thing that has happened ever in the financial dealings of this state and of course Lenihan and FF knew about it very early on. The tactic has been one of a gradual release of news so that we are so deeply in that we have to continue on, even though the policy is as crazy as a bag of flea infested hyenas. The upshot is that we now have no independence left, all assests must now be totted up for the sacrificial fire that is NAMA, vast unemployment is to remain for years, welfare payments of any sort are frozen and may have to be reduced. Taxes must rise in a myriad of ways , all displaying an imagination in FF/GP which previously eluded them. The extent of the debt is catastophic, almost beyond comprehension , to the point that those sectors who might have helped us out of any ordinary recession (Institutes of Tech, Universities, development agencies) won’t be enabled to do so for lack of money for research and expansion of services to students. The tide is high and getting higher!

  4. it just makes me sick to think the cunts take our money and fuck it down the jacks

  5. I Dont Get This,
    Surely we’re heading for a meltdown in this country, mini revolution or even micro one, are’nt we?
    We’d already be there if we were another nationality, would’nt we?
    How come no-one has been dragged out of an office yet?
    Is business law, in this country or/and internationally, SO different from common law?

  6. An poll dorcha you say the debt “is almost beyond comprehension” I disagree with the almost part.It is beyond comprehension and factor in personal debt levels as well.The figures would be dreadfull for an average size nation but for a tiny nation only the size of a medium sized city they are catastrophic,and the best that could be hoped for from another economic boom (and very unlikely) would be to clear a part of the debt from the previous boom.And even that would be a best case scenario.The more likely is that they would compound it into an even bigger disaster.It is bizarre to think but another economic boom in Ireland is something to be looked forward to not with rejoicing but with a feeling of fear and trepidation.How sad is that.

  7. now they are going to sell off everything they can, and this momey will follow the rest into Anglo.
    but dont worry the greyhound owners will be looked after.
    What a shower of cunts these FF TD’s are.

  8. The following quote ascribed to Mark Twain comes to mind

    Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it.

  9. Well scribed as usual Bock.
    I have been resigned to the fact that the country is already bankrupt but the population is just going through the motions of normality Zombie. As long as RTE and other media continue to create distraction people will continue to have closed minds. Talk shows about Celebrities banal lifes, game shows, and most irritating of all very wealthy ‘experts’ and meadia commentators talking about how terrible life is in Ireland while they earn hundreds of thousands a year.
    I stopped reading the papers years ago. These papers neglected to mention to people that the house they were considering buying for €250,000 an hour from work, schools or any social amenities might really be worth only €50,000. They were lying then they are lying now.
    If it weren’t for internet sites I would have little idea what is happening in the world.

  10. Myself and Mrs Pessimist are desperately trying to emigrate. We’re both employed, university educated, above average earners, and net contributors to this great little country. We’re doing ok by anyone’s standards. I emigrated in the ’90s and worked really hard to make it back here, so we could raise the kids with their extended family. We bought near the top of the bubble, but we’ve worked hard to pay down our private debt.

    But the hucksters and shysters and parish pump politicos have made a dog’s breakfast of it for everyone. No matter how hard I work to pay down my private debt, the national school teachers and small town solicitors and other assorted elected shleeveens in the Dail keep piling on the public debt. It’s time to cut our losses and get the hell out of Dodge, before it gets ugly. And we’ll move anywhere other than Zimbabwe.

  11. And that Colin McCarthy is laughing all the way to the bank, with the rest of the FF friends

  12. Can I add a note which may seem off topic? I recently got a job in city hall, I was asked by my boss to rig up a few computers in a mini network, only to be told that they “outsource pc and I.T matters”. I would have had the job done for free in 30 mins and they had to pay some company 900 quid instead,, this is the kind of shite that our tax is being mismanaged, sorry bock, it is kind of relevant

  13. It is relevant but I might devote a post entirely to that sort of thing. Local authorities all over the country set up IT departments which they then staffed with people converted from administrative duties, instead of hiring trained professionals. When, inevitably, these people screw up, there’s nothing for it but to hire in specialist companies to pick up the wreckage. Eventually, because the screw-ups are so common, it becomes policy to outsource the work.

    It’s part of a broader malaise in the way our country is run.

  14. Our rational choice to probably to collapse the financial system here along with the government that serves it. It’s the only way we will get real change.

    So get any money you have on deposit out of Irish Banks before you emigrate, to give the others a chance.

  15. Dan Boil seems to be vying with his colleague Eamon “smart economy” Ryan, for the stupidest politician in Ireland.

    Recent twits by the great economic brain of the Greens have suggest that the fact fewer than 30% of the loans brushed under the NAMA carpet are yielding any cash, proves somehow that the (vastly overestimated) prices paid for the loans was justified.

    We have been, truly, comprehensively screwed by a small group of utter incompetent know-nothings.

  16. “If you stare into the Abyss long enough, the Abyss stares back at you”

    Everyone said that NAMA would be the biggest financial mistake this country could make, and nearly everyone listened except the retards we put in charge of the country in 2007. Now we are rightly F.U.C.K.E.D.

    Emigration is an attractive option, but where would you go, the banks have destroyed the world economy, unemployment is at record levels across the globe, the threat of a double dip or the third depression looms, “foliticians” seem to have the helm in most enlightened democracies, bankers and economists are giving them all advice on how they should get out of the mess the banks and economists go them in to….

    I am not going to make it easy for the politician/banker/developer/ruling elite fuckers, I am not leaving my beloved Ireland the way my Father had to in the 1950’s, work my fingers to the bone building cities that I will never really be welcome in, rob my son of his birth right.

    I am staying.

    Even when it comes to the point that the bank reposes my over priced, negative equity, ghost estate house, and the government penalise me with even more taxes and even more levies, taking the food from my babies mouths to give to their banker/developer/elite partners.

    I am staying, and I’m fucked if I am going to be quite whilst I am here. We can change things people, we can take the power back, we’ve done enough staring in to the abyss. We need to act now, protest, get our voices heard, we elect, we choose, we have a choice.

    Bock; we need a leader……

  17. People abroad have started to ask if we need them to send food parcels and blankets to Ireland….
    Perhaps we can sell FF voters an offer to buy a beautiful framed picture of St Stupid. To order, please post a blank cheque to Brian Cowen, Leinster House, Dublin. They will all be sent a mirror and they will all be very grateful.
    “Isn’t it an amazing picture! When I move, it moves! Better phone Joe Duffy, it’s a miracle”

  18. God – is that all you have to say – and can do about all this (and everything else)? You’re supposed to be omnipotent, aren’t you? BTW, I have some other questions for you…

    Seriously, I really feel sorry for all of you. But then, I feel sorry for all of us. The world seems to be falling apart – or being knocked out, by a few people who think that they’ll still be here when it’s all over.

    Paddy, good for you – I hope you’re right. Commendable and idealistic of you to try to protect the homestead. But I sympathize with those who want to bolt. But where to go – anywhere except Zimbabwe? Other places don’t seem to be much better. Just don’t go to Louisiana, unless you like the smell of gas stations.

  19. I may well have the wrong end of the stick here, I hope I do. It appears that NAMA took over loans from the Banks, based on valuations put on them by the Banks at a modest discount. All of this was based on the belief that 40% of these loans were being repaid because the Banks said they were. On inspection NAMA have found that less than 20% are actually being repaid. However it gets better NAMA now own the properties . Some of these properties have been rented out, the BANKS are getting the rent! One developer was recently reported as having to survive on a mere €3,000 a month. I really hope I am as thick as this post makes me appear!

  20. Dear some1lovesU,

    The omnipotency is a myth by the monotheists. It was better in the old days when more people were polytheists – as this was more accommodating for my multiple personality disorder. People are always happier when Gods stay away form their lives. Personally, I prefer atheists, as they leave me alone and at peace.

  21. Did I read correctly that a guy who had been Director of Corporate Lending with Anglo (up to a couple of years ago) and got a lot of disappointment money (millions) when he didn’t get the big job in Anglo and then went on to establish a property development/ investment company. Now he is the landlord to a major state agency in Galway and, wait for it, he put the rent up recently. A native of this parish also I believe.

  22. Bock – I believe the following is relevant to this post and should be much more widely known.

    Starving in the gutter comes a little later for us, but just take a look at what the shits that FF/GP have handed the country over to did to the poorest and most vulnerable in the world.

    For those unwilling to read the entire article (it’s not long) here’s an executive summary:

    Goldman Sachs decided (rightly) that the sub-prime scam was coming to the end of it’s profitable life in 2006. They looked around for somewhere else to switch their capital. “What we need is a futures market in something people absolutely must have – mortgages, after all, are optional.” Some of the ‘brightest’ and most amoral people in the world decided to move into food. They would bet on the future price of basic foodstuffs. Other financial scum piled in where Gold-in-sacks led.

    Result: Prices of basic foodstuffs rose by 80 to 320%. Not from lack of supply – from pure speculation and deregulation. Millions starved. Millions of children were permanently physically and intellectually stunted.

    This is genocide. A planned attack on a mass of people to equal Mao, Stalin and Hitler’s best efforts. But because it is genocide by a capitalist elite, no one ends up in the International Criminal Court in the Hague.

    A quotation:

    “My children stopped growing,” a woman my age called Abiba Getaneh, told me. “I felt like battery acid had been poured into my stomach as I starved. I took my two daughters out of school and got into debt. If it had gone on much longer, I think my baby would have died.”

  23. Yes, read the whole article – it’s amazingly terrible. Unless they also decided that there are just too many people in the world – which is probably true – so they dealt with that problem somewhat, and profited at the same time. Pretty clever.

    This just in: UPDATE: Goldman Upped For ‘Best In Class’ Risk Management

    “Goldman Sachs’s risk management was “best in class” and could act “as a benchmark for investment banking peers,” the pair said in a note to clients.”

  24. Dear God – so the monotheists are right about you being mono, but not right about your being omnipotent? Wow. Who do you go to to treat your Divine Disorder? Sorry – maybe I should just leave You alone (but that’s what happens when You post on an open forum).

    Oh, and BTW, it’s “stay away FROM their lives”, not “stay away FORM their lives”… ; )

  25. Bock,

    Hate to be picky but your headline is a little misleading.

    It should read “NAMA will lose Billions”.

    With 80% of loans transferred for far being complete basket cases and with NAMA intending to provide up to €10bn in “finishing out costs” it is almost guaranteed to lose billions.

    The propaganda will continue.

    Expect false information about NAMA to emerge just before the next general election.

  26. Dear some1lovesU,
    Omnipotent yes, but nobody ever said when, i.e. it’s on a straight timesharing basis, and that goes across all faiths. When Divine Life get’s too much, there’s always a pub open at my sister’s place, downstairs.

  27. Going back to post #15, I am qualified in that department, though I am not there in an IT capacity, It’s just a miniscule example of how public money is being squandered. Fuckwits, the lot of them

  28. Ronwan,
    Your bosses may be reading this so you might consider not disclosing too much about yourself.

  29. Of course, since this is the internet, people can claim to be all sorts of things. And bosses can go fuck themselves if they come to me looking for information.

  30. NAMA chairman reveals today banks not even bothering the builders to ask for their money back.

    “We are equally taken aback to learn that the banks were not even using the full range of legal options available to them in order to secure income in respect of troubled loans. The banks displayed a remarkable generosity towards their borrowers”

    Easier to get it from Lenihan instead I suppose, no need to hassle the builders.
    Builder acquaintances of ours with debts gone to NAMA still living the life, biggest, best fit house in our neck of the woods.
    These people (banks, builders, FF) will volunteer nothing to us.
    Can’t think who’s going to save us short of a comic book hero.

  31. Is this possible? Do I hear the sound of a penny dropping to Sheila and Sean citizen? Currently 25% of the “boys” are paying back their loans 75% are not. The majority are still living the good life with impunity. How long will it take the 25% to realise this, and find that they also have problems keeping their Chateau in France , Villa in Spain and the mansion in Ireland?

  32. “Do I hear the sound of a penny dropping”

    No. I don’t think so.

    Shelia and Sean are the same fucking gobshites they were when they bought the “executive/lifestyle” house for €400,000 with money lent to them by a gobshite who bought the one next door.

    What makes you think that Shelia and Sean are numerate?

    What makes you think that they know the difference between 25% and 75%.

    The only thing these gobshites are interested in is Fianna Fail telling them that the recession/depression is over.

    Pravda says it’s over and they buy.

    They don’t want it to end.

    They are gobshites.

    The penny will drop when the Government of Gobshites runs out of pennies.

    It may take a little time, it is after all Government by Gobshite.

    Government by the Gobshite, of the Gobshite, for the Gobshite.

  33. NAMA,
    Does anyone remember the “Porridge” episode where Fletch was trying to tell McKiy about a tunnel that was being dug under the prison, it ends with McKiy asking Fleth where they buried the dirt from the tunnell, and Fletch said “we just dug another tunnel and put all the dirt in there” – Well thats NAMA in a nutshell. Give them 10 years to come up with another answer, but if the money isn’t there now, it never will be.

    At least the Queens coming to visit, thats all for free right???


  34. Rich Banker regrettably I have to agree with you. I did express difficulties believing that the Penney had dropped with the average Citizen. NAMA are now saying that the Banks had a “sentimental and emotional “attachment to Developers! Would that the Banks had the same feelings towards mortgage holders. F.F. however can rely on the undying respect and love from the snivelling whipped curs that the Irish electorate seem to be.

    Peter her Majesty’s visit is estimated to cost the Republic €8,000,000.

  35. Talk to anyone in business these days and they will tell you about the enormous difficulty they have in trying to collect money owed. It is a waste of time and money bringing debtors to court. The costs can be enormous and at best the judge might order the debtor to pay a small sum every month for 10 years or so. The businesses who cannot collect money then in turn don’t pay there debts.
    It quickly becomes culturally acceptable not to pay debts to survive. Those doing business and paying al their bills like rates, tax, suppliers etc. quickly go bankrupt. Those not paying bills on time will bring the economic system to its needs.
    This subject is not dealt with in the media but is avery serious crisis.

  36. Look on the bright side. Brian Lenihan looks great. I think he has lost weight. Every cloud.


  37. Darren sorry to rain on your parade but cancer and it’s treatment tends to do that. Life is a bitch and then you ………

  38. Do you mean to say you’re not happy a person is looking ok after having cancer treatment Darren. Lovely ! – Sarcasm

  39. …Nor about God’s current revelation, I imagine. I’d like to continue this little divine dialogue with You, but maybe it’s not so appropriate considering the gravity of this thread (unless people appreciate lightening it up a litte). So let’s continue this in private – You have my address.

    (BTW, I heard that You have a Son, but this is the first I’ve heard about Your Sister…)

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