Kenmare Resources is a mining company and as such, might have considered employing a barrister more acquainted with its core activities to defend it against libel claims by its former deputy chairman, Donal Kinsella. Displaying a lamentably poor understanding of geology, Bill Shipsey, Senior Counsel for the company, complained that the damages award of €10 million to Mr Kinsella was "off the Richter scale".
Somebody should explain to Mr Shipsey that the Richter scale, which measures the strength of earthquakes, doesn't have an upper limit, in much the same way that barristers' flights of hyperbole, and their fees, are untrammelled by artificial boundaries.
To be charitable to Mr Shipsey, who is a lawyer and therefore, almost by definition, entirely ignorant of all things practical, maybe he was knocked off his feet by the legal earthquake of today's finding and not thinking straight.
What happened?
Back in 2007, the people who run Kenmare Resources were in Mozambique inspecting their Moma titanium minerals mine. During the night, Kinsella went sleepwalking three times, turning up at the room of secretary Deirdre Corcoran who was not amused. On returning to Ireland, Ms Corcoran made a formal complaint about the matter.
A lawyer was appointed to investigate, and found that Kinsella had not sexually harassed Ms Corcoran but was simply sleepwalking.
So far so good.
That wasn't what the case was about. The thing that caused the trouble was a press release issued by the company referring to an "incident" involving Mr Kinsella and the secretary.
Kinsella argued that the release created the impression he had made inappropriate sexual overtures to the woman. He said it had made him a laughing stock. He had been called a pervert at business meetings, even though the independent inquiry had exonerated him. He claimed that the press release libelled him, and the jury of seven men and four women agreed. History does not record, however, why it was so difficult for him to put on pyjamas after he had been sent back to his room the first two times. Perhaps it has something to do with his Fianna Fáil connections: the sleepwalking party with no clothes.
The jury awarded him €9 million damages, and a further €1 million in punitive damages for the rough treatment he had experienced under cross-examination.
It seems Mr Shipsey's questioning was on the robust end of the Richter Scale.
I bet he can afford some pyjamas now. Did Ms. Corcoran get a portion?
I don't believe Ms Corcoran was involved with the case at all, either as a party or a witness.
He must be very important.
Does everybody who gets questioned robustly on the witness stand from now on get a million.
If the barrister for the other party is acting the bollix, why not?
Why not what?
The guy done it three times and it never occured to him to put his fucking pants on!!.People who have children damaged by incompetent health professionals that need care for the rest of their lives dont get anything like this amount.What is so special about this guy that his reputation is worth a kings ransom.
His reputation is closely linked with Fianna Fáil. Obviously he wouldn't want anything to tarnish it.
Ahh that explains it…people of the highest integrity and morals.
I presume Anglo or NIB will provide loan facilities for the €10m.
Who pays the €10M in "damages"?
I'm delighted I'm emigrating this kip. A sorry state of a nation.
We're a nation full of imbeciles.
Kenmare Resources pay the damages.
I'm gobsmacked! The Donal Kinsella? The shyster who tried a hostile takeover of Dublin Gas and was au fait with every counter move the company made, because its political overlord (FF of course) was feeding him with key data and consultants' reports? It really is true then – the devil looks after its own.
Comment Deleted.
FME, please do not make defamatory statements about this matter.
It's not defamatory surely to say you're of the opinion you don't believe he was sleep walking.
You said yourself "Becoming a laughing stock had nothing to do with wandering around a hotel arse-naked".
You said more than that. Don't go there.
I don't understand why the company felt they needed to issue a press release about the original incident, it was investigated and he was exonerated, however strange it seems to be. Was it already public knowledge or was the company just unhappy with the result, surely any half decent PR for the company would have recognized the potential for libel here.
A FÁS sleepwaking course is scheduled to begin in the new year.
Three times he ended up in the same room. After the first time youd wonder why Ms. Corcoran didnt turn the key in the door. Maybe he was on the same batch of Neurofen as Prendeville?
This is nothing I see David Drumm is about to sue Anglo Irish for giving him bad loans….
What a joke! Elephant Man needs to know that his behaviour was wrong and his excuse is laughable. Him and that abusive dj desrve each other
The law is a bareass.
@Klaus Kinski
I'm on for that. Where can I sign up?
Actually living in Ireland feels like sleepwalking through a nightmare right now.
The legal parasites are more than capable of taking down and attempting to profit from a site like this. Make your real feelings know anonymously on other sites. It's not hard.
When I first heard of this case weeks ago I couldn't help but wonder………..
1……Any woman I know would lock the door and shove a chair against it on seeing an unwanted naked man standing before her, and that's only presuming she would have omitted to lock the door in the first place. But to let it happen three times???
and 2…… why did he not cover up after the first incident and lock his own door?
It always amazes me that seemingly intelligent people find themselves in this type of situation.
thats fucking funny. I'm just off to bed in the hope I'll sleepwalk down to the local bank and rob it. If any of ye dare to interpret my intentions as anything other than honourable in going to bed ye'll have my lawyer to answer to.
I can't lose.
One wonders why on the first occasion Mr Somnambulist didn't lock his own door if he was a sleepwalker. Sleepwalkers don't normally have the facility to figure out a locked door, became agitated and wake up as far as I understand it.
Fucking nonsense borne out of the notion that powerful people have more leeway than Joe Soap. There's a great book to be written about the law in Ireland and its po-faced and well funded ability to wander off and philosophise at the edges of reason and then come to a legal determination based on its meanderings.
Thats what happens when you inherit a foreign legal system and try to make the natives live by it. Confusion, philosophy and high comedy.
Completely ignorant question…………… did the jury alone come up with the figure of €10,000,000 ( I had to see all of the zeros), and if so do they have any requirement to justify the figure? It seems to me that if the figure was realistic there would be less chance of an incredibly expensive appeal process. At least there would be an end to this load of nonsense.
All of these good points – why she didn't lock her door after the first time, why he didn't lock his, why he didn't pajama himself, etc. – they must have come up at the trail (mustn't they have?). As unlikely and funny as it is, he apparently really was sleepwalking, and therefore, was libeled. The lesson here is to be damn careful what you say about someone – especially in print.
I'm therefore rather impressed that Bock censored out what he considered to be a defamatory comment, specifically in this post. Although, not knowing what she actually wrote, I tend to agree with FME that she was only stating her own opinion, and readers of this site would understand that by printing it, Bock doesn't necessarily agree with it (especially if you say so). If the company doesn't think that he was sleepwalking, they could appeal – would that also be libelous?
Sort of on the side, but: I learned my lesson finding out that Taoiseach rhymes with Bock. So I don't know what the Fail in FF sounds like. But it's rather fascinating that the second F is at least spelled the same as the English word "fail". Naming the party thusly was not a wise PR move, although I see from the FF wiki that the Fail in FF is related to Fal, a legendary name for your historically proud country. And who knew then that English would become the major world language? This curiosity is not lost on headline writers: Fianna Fails, FF fails, Failed by Fianna, etc.
I have no problem with opinions. All I'll say is this: a man convicted of possessing child pornography won a case against the Irish Daily Star last week because they called him a pervert. You have to be very careful.
By the way, Taoiseach certainly does not rhyme with Bock!
Ok, that's fair enough Bock. Understandable.
You can't be held responsible for what you might be when you're sleep walking I suppose.. :)
Am I allowed say, 10 million in damages is completely and utterly ridiculous?
What sort of eejits are we at all?
A 10 million libel award would be ridiculous in any circumstances.
In the context of the current bankrupt state of this nation, it is outrageous.
So outrageous that I’m sure it will feature prominently in the global media.
As if we didn’t already look bad enough in the eyes of the world!
Regarding your confusion over the name “Fianna Fáil”, Some1LovesU (Ever consider changing the auld moniker?) there are some who have rather unfairly suggested that that stroke (In Irish it’s called a fada, in English an acute accent, I think.) over the “a” in “Fáil” should be deleted in acknowledgment of its failure, to put it mildly, in government.
I really feel the need to put these people straight.
The three founding aims of Fianna Fáil in 1926 were:
1. A united Ireland.
2. The restoration of the Irish language.
3. Economic self-sufficiency for Ireland.
(Source, Ireland in the Twentieth Century by John A Murphy, page 68)
Let’s go through this in a fair and responsible manner.
Firstly, regarding a united Ireland, there is no doubt that that has been all but achieved. Just a matter of crossing the t’s and dotting the i’s, undoing a referendum or two and relocating a few stubborn Unionists who happen to live in the northern region of the island. No bother at all.
In relation to the restoration of the Irish language, practically everyone on the island of Ireland, apart from a few of the most stubborn of the above mentioned Unionists speak Irish fluently and use it all the time. We only blog in the English language to share our wisdom with the rest of the world.
As for economic self-sufficiency, sure that’s practically a done deal. Ask Brian Lenihan. He'll put you straight on that.
That should clear up the confusion for you.
Well, if it doesn't rhyme with Bock, then that doesn't bode well for some of those limerick entries. What happened with that contest, BTW (I realize that there are more serious things to deal with right now)?
SF – what dif does the bankrupt state of the nation have to do with the size of the award? It's going to be paid by the company, isn't it?
I did notice that fada there, and must admit that I didn't take the time to research what it's there for. How DO you pronounce fadaed fail, then?
So according to you, FF has actually succeeded, notwithstanding the mess that they're (apparently!) making right now. I don't know enough to know if you're joking about the 3rd point.
Now that you mention it, I have been thinking about changing my name here – it does seem kind of funny. I wanted something cute, and also thought that this might comfort some lonely soul out there. And I didn't think I would be so active here when I started. Does it bother anyone else?
Some1LovesU, don't change, I like you as you are.
BLOL! * – thanks! (other opinions still welcomed, though).
(* Being Liked Out Loud!)
Regarding the size of the libel award, I know it’s the company that would have to pay.
That’s irrelevant to the points I was making.
“Fáil” is pronounced something like “fawl” and maybe with a slight inflection hinting at “fawil”.
I was being ironic in suggesting that Fianna Fáil has succeeded.
I hope I didn’t offend in my comment about your pseudonym. I think in certain situations where you’re addressing a particular individual, it might be regarded as a little condescending.
No, not offended – or condescended. ; )
I’m very relieved to hear that you are not offended, Some1LovesU.
I was afraid I was going to have to admit that I was somnambulating when I posted that comment and that you might not believe me.
That's all right – we'd eventually get to the libelous truth…
And how can we be sure that you're not still sleepwalking? (Hard Irish words aren't enough?).
It's a diphthong.
Wait – is it closer to fawl, fawil, or foul?
And is Fianna Fianna, or is that also something else?
Fawill. The genitive case of Fál.
It's the Irish for "self-important bullshitting crooks".
Well, I didn't find that particular definition anywhere. But I did find this on Fianna. A little different from your typical present day Fiannite:
http://www.babynamesofireland.com/pages/the-fianna.html
THE LEGEND OF THE FIANNA
The Fianna lived many hundreds of years ago. Every man of the Fianna was chosen for his strength and bravery and was specially trained in warfare and was made a champion among warriors.
Usually before any man could officially become a Fianna warrior he had to undergo some tests:
While standing in a hole as deep as his waist he had to be able to defend himself against nine warriors using only a shield and a hazel rod.
He had to escape from nine warriors by running through the forest without breaking a twig under his feet or tearing his clothes on bramble.
He had to be able to jump over a branch as high as himself and run under another as low as his knee.
While running at top speed through the forest he had to be able to pick a thorn from his foot without stopping.
He had to learn twelve books of poetry by heart and also know many of the old legends and stories.
Not to take a dowry with a wife.
This band of warriors were sworn to fight for the high king of Ireland and to keep the peace among the sub-kings of Ireland. When there was peace they lived lives devoted to the chase, for they were great hunters and food was never in short supply because in that time Ireland was heavily wooded where the boar, the deer and the wolf roamed in plenty. The Fianna hunted with their famous dogs – the Irish wolfhound, as large as a small pony and now, alas, almost extinct. In a single day's hunting it is said that they would go from Killarney, in County Kerry, in the west to Ben Eadar in the east, near where Dublin stands today, crossing the trackless bogs and forest and climbing the mountains' slippery sides. A wet or a fine day, winter or summer, were all the same to them, for they heeded neither wet nor cold.
That was all linked to from here:
http://www.babynamesofireland.com/pages/girl-names-d-g.html
Fionn Mac Cool's (read the legend) warrior band were known as the Fianna (read the legend). In early Ireland women had equal rights and while the warriors were usually men there is a strong tradition of Celtic women fighting alongside the men, dating as far back as Roman times.
Thanks. I suspect most readers know who the Fianna were.
Well, I'm just one of those Extra-Fallian Humans – all of this stuff is new to me! What an interesting world…
Hi Bock, Mike from oneshot. We were wondering if you have had any attempted hacking of your site. We were attacked yesterday, but managed to keep everything going. However, today we received a letter in the post from someone proporting to be representing Donal Kinsella not happy with our reporting. Our site just crashed as we discussed what to do about it. It seems that Fianna Fail are trying to silence their critics. Let me know if you've had similar problems. Regards, Mike.
Mike — SInce this post is simply a factual report of what happened, I don't know what Mr Kinsella would be unhappy about. The only criticism is of Bill Shipsey for his ignorance of geology. To the best of my knowledge, the site hasn't been attacked but you should always look at the numerous technical causes before assuming enemy action. These things are usually due to some screw-up or incompetence. I've crashed this site a few times by meddling in things I don't understand, and the geeks have been up all night fixing it.
Hello again Bock. Our site is definately under attack. Our techies say that to even get in and fix the issue we have to wait until whomever is bombing us stops, due to the volume of traffic into the site the whole thing has ground to a halt. E-mail has been halted also.
I do not now belileve the solicitor's letter to be genuine, it was not via registered post and signature looks phoney.
I agree that it is a factual post and the funny thing is that this was one of the few posts that we did not satirise, as is the case with all of our political posts. Hopefully we will be back up and running soon, but definately freaked us out.
The good news is that we have an election coming up. Yippie.
My advice is this: get a good hosting service. A proper host would have this sorted out in minutes.
I use Blacknight.
Solicitors letter turns out to be genuine. The Irish Independant have published an apology. http://www.independent.ie/national-news/apology-donal-kinsella-2438288.html
Oh and site was attacked, apparently someone tried to use "blackwidow" to copy content……..