Apr 052011
 

The Gardai working for Shell in Mayo are an absolute disgrace.  Crushing dissent against the theft of our natural resources, they’re happy to collect sizeable overtime payments while at the same time depriving local residents of their right to protest.  They have worked hand in hand with privately employed security thugs to beat up honest men and women, and to falsify evidence.

Therefore, it would come as no surprise to me if three Gardai had joked about raping a woman they had just arrested.  In a grim sort of way, I’d be glad if they had been caught planning to sexually abuse a prisoner because it might finally expose what has been going on there,.

But they didn’t.  They made a joke about an imagined exchange that might take place between a policeman and a prisoner, something so absurd that they burst out laughing.  We’ve all been there: people saying more and more outrageous things until the conversation gets completely out of hand.

Their words, caught on a confiscated video camera they had inadvertently left running, strike me as a lampooning of the sort of heavy-handed policing they speak about elsewhere in the conversation.

This is the part that caused all the outrage.  It’s crude, it’s base, but it’s also taking place inside a car between three men with no witnesses present and nobody to feel threatened.

They’re discussing a woman they’ve just arrested.

Sounds like a Yank or Canadian.

Garda B: Well whoever, we’ll get Immigration fucking on her.

Garda A: She refused to give her name and address and told she would be arrested.

Garda B : … and deported.

Garda A: And raped.

(laughter)

Garda B: I wouldn’t go that far yet.  She was living down at that crusty camp, fuck sake, you never know what you might get.

Garda A: Give me your name and address or I’ll rape you.

Unidentified Garda: Hold it there, give me your name and address there, I’ll rape you.

Garda A : Or I’ll definitely rape you.

(laughter)

I realise that people will see the recording in a different light, but to my mind, they’re playing out a scenario so impossible, so ludicrous that they find it hysterically funny.  I think they’re ridiculing the sort of ignorant policemen who turned the whole Rossport debacle into a public relations disaster for the Garda Síochána.

Later in the recording, a Garda is speaking on the phone:

I know we don’t want to be arresting them but by the same token, we were left with no option.

The men go on to discuss the need for safety ropes and ladders when removing protesters from the cabs of tractors.

I have to tell you, during private conversation, I’ve gone more than a few steps beyond what’s socially acceptable.  Which of us hasn’t?  Some of the funniest moments happen when people say extreme things they obviously don’t believe.    If I thought I was being recorded, I’d be a lot more circumspect.  Therefore, I’m afraid this tape signifies not very much.  It’s just a recording of three guys acting the maggot in a car.

There are plenty of substantial reasons to mistrust the Gardai and to challenge their actions at Rossport, but this isn’t one of them, in my opinion.

There’s less to this case than meets the eye.

_________________
All Rossport posts on Bock

What jokes are allowed?

 

 

 

 

  88 Responses to “Corrib Gardai Rape Joke Caught On Tape”

Comments (88)
  1.  

    What I believe is actually disturbing about that is that the gardaí are still there in numbers.

  2.  

    Bock, I understand what you’re saying and to a certain extent I accept it. I had first thought that the Gardai in question had made these threats in earshot of the woman arrested, which would have been a much more chilling scenario.

    Having said that, there’s already a hefty problem with rape being taken seriously as a crime from some elements in our society – from outright dismissal of how horribly damaging it is to victim-blaming and chest-beating nonsense about prick-teasing broads. So I think that we are right to challenge the Gardai in question. If they’re not taking such a crime seriously, if they think it’s a big joke, what effect is that going to have on the victims of rape who are wrestling with the decision to report a crime against them, or those whose cases are being investigated?

    It was incredibly unprofessional, at best. Gardai on duty should not joke about serious crimes, whether or not they think they’re being recorded. If they were down the pub making such a joke, you’d maybe give them a dirty look, or call them gobshites and tell them to shut up. But they weren’t down the pub. To make light of this is to make light of their office and stature.

  3.  

    Sweary — I’m suggesting that they weren’t joking about rape. I think they were lampooning the sort of Guards who might talk that way to a prisoner.

  4.  

    This isn’t a recording of ” three guys acting the maggot in a car”, this is a recording of three Guards making jokes about raping someone who is being held by them, against her will. There is no “different light”, this is what it is and it’s fucking sickening. They’re not ridiculing ignorant policemen and the reason they discuss safety ropes and harnesses later on in the video is because they are roleplaying a scenario where an activist has been injured and they are in court over it, what to say, etc. These are the people women are supposed to go to when they have been raped. I urge you to listen to the recording again with this thought in mind.

  5.  

    I’m open to an alternative point of view on this but at the same time, I’m saying how I hear it. There’s no right and wrong here — just different interpretations.

  6.  

    If the conversation took place after their shift, in the pub, then no harm done. Just a bunch of lads having a laugh. Ignorant fuckers,given the tone of the conversation, but just having a laugh all the same, although it doesn’t sound to me like they were taking the piss out of a stereotype at all. This sounds like a real conversation. Shit talk between shit-kickers, if you will.

    However since it happened whilst they were in uniform and they have now been “caught” I imagine some token gesture or rebuke will have to be made.
    In reality though I reckon at best they will get a slap on the wrist for unprofessional conduct, since they don’t seem to have broken any laws. It’s not like they can be punished with a posting to the arse end of nowhere, cos they’re already there!!

    I thik its far more important that in this case they were not so much serving the public as aiding and abetting the theft of our natural resources, so I’d be inclined to say they deserve a bit more than that, just by way of some kind of karmic balance for being facist tools.

  7.  

    I’d say that particular posting is quite a lucrative one.

  8.  

    These men? garda? shits? whatever you want to call them are in a very responsible job. They have to do things a certain way or, as one of them said in the second part of that recording, the job will let you take the fall.
    That being said, when we make comments, as Bock says, in conversation that ridicules or holds certain things in derision, we have to be careful whom we might offend if overheard.

    These guardians of the peace thought they could have such a conversation. They were wrong. The camera overheard and they were found out.

    Because of that very responsible job, they are now in the public eye for their comments. If goats are needed to be scaped, they are elected and damned by their own words. The job in this particular case will let them fall, hard.

  9.  

    two people arrested one for sitting on a tractor, one for taking a video of what was going on.
    It took three cars one for each of the arrested and one for the camera.
    So three cars and at least four gardai. you can can be picked up for making a video, but not for breaking the country.

  10.  

    It’s pretty sad in this day and age that those men would find it funny to talk about raping a woman.
    I don’t believe they are imitating anyone. Rather just joking around with what they consider funny.

    I don’t believe they should lose their jobs over it though..
    But I do think a bunch of butch female wrestlers should be brought in to kick the bollix out of them. Subjugamagate their arses.
    Oh and have the ladies laughing their asses off while they’re doing it.

  11.  

    In my opinion, the Guards in Mayo have already provided plenty of reason to regard them as gobshites, and by their behaviour nationally have undermined respect for the police. Therefore, we don’t need to go looking for reasons. There they are in front of us.

    This tape is just bullshit talk from three guys in a car. Women have told me rape jokes. Is someone suggesting they should be expelled from womanhood?

  12.  

    I’ve no opinion on this until a full unedited tape is released and an Ombudsman investigation is complete – but please Bock, as is blatantly apparent from all your previous ( Anti)Garda posts, you would never have respect for our Police.

  13.  

    John — Do you think this post is also anti-Garda?

  14.  

    “Women have told me rape jokes. Is someone suggesting they should be expelled from womanhood?”

    Bock, it’s not the same. Sharing a generic rape joke with your friends may be in bad taste, but it ends there. Gards in uniform, sworn to protect the citizenry, joking about committing a violent offense against a particular woman they have just arrested, under their control, handcuffed and held against her will — that is different. It erodes trust in and respect for the gardai. Context is everything. Would you similarly dismiss it as “just bullshit talk” if it was a primary school teacher caught joking with his colleagues in the teacher’s room about raping a particular child in his class?

  15.  

    I’m suggesting that it isn’t as sinister as some people want to believe it is. That’s all. When they do something that I think is genuinely nasty, I’ll be one of the first to talk about it. Due to their position and the powers conferred on them, they deserve to be placed under stricter scrutiny than the rest of us, despite what some of their members might think. I just don’t think this is the occasion.

  16.  

    Me and my girl friends regularly make fun of men. Not once has it ever involved joking about raping one of them. Never. And I don’t mean to be coming across all holier than thou saying that..

    In fairness, it’s usually women who are in actual fact the subjects of rape. Goes without saying I suppose.
    It’s really not like a joke that could equally apply to both sexes.

    We all know the type of men who’ll make jokes about rape and I have to say I’ve known some absolute gentlemen in my time, with a great sense of humour and they’ve never joked about that.

    But you’re right. The guards up there have shown themselves to be gobshites.. due to how they’ve treated the locals with such contempt and disrespect. This recording being another display of it.

    And John McManus, if Bock never had much respect for our Police.. this’d change his mind wouldn’t it?

    Shower of baffoons up there. How would they like someone talking about their mother like that, I wonder?

  17.  

    “The men go on to discuss the need for safety ropes and ladders when removing protesters from the cabs of tractors.”

    That is not my interpretation of what I read, looked to me more like they were discussing if they would get away with unsafely removing a protester and consequently injuring the protester, a more senior officer was reassuring them they would (which is actually probably a bigger issue at least in regard to Corrib). We also learned (I think) they still have something of a ‘no arrest’ policy – which is to try to be physically agressive towards people rather than arresting them. In addition there was mention of garda earning promotions from their role in policing the Corrib gas dispute.

    On the issue of the rape comments they have to be seen in context – sure everyone comes out with some amount of shite in jest – but this is a context of violence that is where the Garda have been carring out acts of violence against the protesters, where they had the young women in custody, where there have been allegations of police threatening to rape protesters before and, on a wider level, where the enforcement of the law in regard to rape still leaves a lot to be desired (by no means just the fault of the Gardai) and these are the men tasked to enforce that law – on duty.

    Basically they are joking about raping someone from a group they have been carrying out violence against, while that person is their prisoner, and while they are being paid by the taxpayer to catch rapists.

  18.  

    When I read about this earlier today, the articles I read gave the impression that one of the arrested girls was in that car and that the guards were talking to her. That disgusted me.

    That they are joking about rape when they consider themselves alone is still pretty horrifying – it’s like they’re trying to prove to each other how little they think of the girls they’ve just arrested – that they’re objects.

    And the discussion later about ladders and ropes. I got the impression that they were considering “allowing” (I read it as “causing”) accidents to happen (that bit where one of them suggests that if one of the protesters slipped and fell… oh well?). The only argument they had /against/ being as hateful as that was that they may lose their job.

    That’s like a religious person being good only because of fear of hell; not through any innate goodness.

    To be honest, that says to me that these people really couldn’t give a shit about the people they deal with.

  19.  

    I agree with Sweary’s comment #2 completely. Full stop.

    But the killer is: “This tape is just bullshit talk from three guys in a car. Women have told me rape jokes. Is someone suggesting they should be expelled from womanhood?”

    Yeah, sure, and Jewish friends told me the most hilarious jokes about Jews and the Holocaust….
    Why do you think they do? Women or Jews? Think about it.

    “Bullshit talking” just shows the state of mind of people. Certain thoughts are there, whatever it is, in this case about rape. If rape is a possibility to show power and superiority and if this possibility is still accepted, even as a joke, then the state of mind is still in the knuckle-dragging era. Frightening, though reality obviously – even in enlightened circles.

    Bullshit talk is just the foreplay for action, at least in not so developed male testestoronized minds.
    It might be “excusable” with dickheads down the pub whose balls you could twist in case of action (that hurts, but not as much as rape). But gardai (as in guardian, or protector) are supposed to represent the law not the scumbags. And if a woman dares to fight one if the guards she’ll end up in prison anyway, I suppose. Because the word of law enforcement (enforcement!) counts more than that of a woman/foreigner/any civilian.

    On the other hand, the gardai aren’t exactly representatives of advanced human beings.

    But that doesn’t mean that any bullshit talk is something like, “ah shure, it’s just us lads talking”!
    That puts you just on the same level as dickheadish guards.

  20.  

    The point you are all missing is that there was maybe a Canadian woman involved. Say we were all in Newfounland right now, reading a blog by some guy called say… Black, the Jobber. And there was this
    wee cute, dark eyed gorgeous peanut of a girl from West Clase, protesting the whale hunt by the Inuits
    with her pretty scarf and Munster shirt. And these Mounties had her tied up in the back of one of the horseboxes they obviously need with them pretty much all of the time. And they were making jokes about
    cornholing her and pissing on her etc…and making her drink from a funnel…and having a dog in there, and
    some howard stern stuff etc etc you get my point…and smearing stuff and writing words on her skin and taking some pictures for facebook and calling her Drunk Paddy’s girlfriend…. well that would be a big deal… wouldn’t it, just remember, this sounds like a Canadian Woman is involved, I mean she is technically a tourist, I think Bord Failte should get involved, I do. I really really do.

  21.  

    “Etc etc”. Shut the fuck up Ted. Nurse Ratched is calling you back to your room there.
    Internet time over for the patients.

  22.  

    Comparing rape to the holocaust? Jesus, what next!

    There are some extremely professional and hard working Gardai. There are some knuckle draggers who would have no problem to beat you within an inch of your life once they get you in a cell. These guys, although not exactly professional, are probably far from the other extreme.

  23.  

    You getting off on this Ted?

  24.  

    They sound like a bunch of rednecks and it makes you wonder if they’re despatched to the Corrib intentionally as they’re unlikely to question the ethics of the situation they find themselves in, or the actions they are encouraged to take.

    Bottom line is that they didn’t commit a crime, but they’re definitely a bad reflection on the Garda when it comes to professionalism.

  25.  

    They’re undoubtedly a bunch of rednecks. That’s a given.

  26.  

    Tim said: “Comparing rape to the holocaust? Jesus, what next! ”

    You don’t want to know what’s next … just among us lads and ladesses…nasty wink, wink.

    I don’t compare the uncomparable, try to read if you are not too preoccupied with dragging your knuckles.
    I compared jokes with jokes, or what is perceived as jokes, made from potential or real victims.

    I don’t know why I bother to answer such ignorant comments…

  27.  

    As George Carlin says, some things you just can’t joke about.

    ::

  28.  

    So no one’s ever made a joke about dropping the soap in the shower thenn (male rape)? Bad taste is not a crime, however when done in the uniform of the state it becomes a different matter. Whether they like it or not, when they put on the uniform they lose the right to be gobshites. They have rules and procedures to follow,

    Statement from Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan:
    “‘I want the message to go out to the community and particularly to victims of sexual crime that they should report those crimes to gardaí who can take the necessary steps to vindicate and protect their rights and I want to assure them that they will be met with compassion and sensitivity.’”

    It’s quite hard to see how the above statement gels with the attitudes displayed by the Gardai in question (though to be fair to the younger ones it was their sergent who was the worst and they’d hardly be the first to laugh along with the boss). Perhaps Martin Cullinan enjoys an aul’ rape joke as much as the next Garda but when he puts on his Garda cap he says otherwise. As it should be.

  29.  

    I’m not suggesting this gets swept under the carpet, but surely releasing this all over the net and sensationalist reporting (how many of us thought these comments were made in the presence of the women) is what is going to deter women in general from approaching the police!!!

    I agree that the Garda said some unnacceptable things ……. But they were not meant in the way that the media portrayed them. I also think that for the protesters it seems like an easy way to gain some media support! Like was already stated, there are plenty of other reasons to slate the Garda!!!

  30.  

    Lets face it, the comment made by the Garda was offensive but was made. Yes he made a mistake and should be reprimanded for his conduct as he has damaged the reputation of the Gardai. The reprimand should only reflect his stupidity and should not be used as sacrificial lamb. That should be the end of it. It was an error in judgement making a comment like that, but it was just a stupid comment that has now been capitalised by the media.

    I believe that he’s just an easy target now and feel sorry for him. A private joke that was clearly offensive, I’m wondering how many people have told a racist or a sexist joke.

  31.  

    only one thing for certain there will be fuck all happen to them for those comments.Every day they are being told by the courts they are above the law.Even the cunt who carried out an armed robbery walked out of the court a free man a few weeks ago, one of the reasons given being that he might have a hard time in prison because he was a guard (sic).In every civilized country a crime commited by the police is regarded as extremely serious and most police forces have special internal units dedicated to hunting down rotten police officers.Where as the Gardai only have people dedicated to protecting and covering up the crimes of their “members”, like a brotherhood of scumbags.All we really have for a police force is a rag tag rabble of ignorant oafs,power hungry pricks,and thiefs, robbers extortionists and various other human excrement.

  32.  

    That’s a gross and unfair slur on those members of our police force who are there to do a job. The problem is that the entire organisation needs to be overhauled and turened into a professional operation like the PSNI.

  33.  

    Gardai training vid. You have drink taken – embrace your inner culchie

  34.  

    As absurd and far out as the conversation was, I think the whole thing just goes to show how little the Gardai actually think of these protesters and how they don’t seem to be connected at all with the situation, The media covered the ridiculous conversation but once again avoided speaking about the actual dispute that is going on up there, so this is becoming just another distraction from the main issue. They also emphasised the fact that many of the protesters ‘weren’t from the area’-as if it matters( The IMF/ECB etc. aren’t from this neck of the woods and they are welcome to come and dictate to us) In saying that, I also think that this behaviour is unacceptable, last year there were a number of men sacked for sending around emails rating women- they didn’t think the emails would ever be seen by anyone other than their own misogynistic group but they were. Tough caca, they are obviously in the wrong profession-

  35.  

    I’m toying with the idea that the recording could have a more sinister interpretation, though not the conclusion everybody jumped to.

    They weren’t talking about threatening the two women they’d arrested, but perhaps they were repeating a real conversation.

    Could it be possible that Guards in Mayo actually did this to a prisoner and the thing became a running joke? Now that would be really serious.

  36.  

    A crime by a member of the police force should be considered as really serious, but what crime was committed?
    Some headlines say the girls were “threatened with deportation and rape”! Sensationalist????? The independent.ie says “the Garda ombudsman is to investigate complaints officers threatened to rape protesters”!!!!

  37.  

    No crime was committed. Nobody was threatened.

  38.  

    Would you know of anywhere I can find the recording Bock?
    I’m curious to see if I can make out if they’re imitating anyone or a previous scenario.

  39.  

    Nevermind. Found it!

  40.  

  41.  

    Cheers.

    Found the full length recording here too.
    http://vimeo.com/21952231

  42.  

    FME. What did you make of full recording ?
    I offered no opinion when two of my daughters were watching the snippets on the News but I did observe their reaction.

  43.  

    This wasn’t just a group of lads having a laugh about how attractive they thought a couple of girls were.
    These are people who are responsible for the enforcement of law and the safety of the public in this country.

    But let’s listen to these individuals recorded on the full tape.
    They think it’s acceptable to laugh and joke about sexual violence and the inherent threats within.
    They have a stated aim of not arresting protestors. “I know we don’t want to be arresting them!”
    They think that they are being made fools of by the protestors. “Ah they’re making a laugh out of us!”
    At least one of them doesn’t want to be a guard. “I ‘aint putting my job on the line for no fuckin’ public!”
    At least one thinks that they are without friend in the judiciary. “We’re going to be on our own in the box!”
    The believe they have no managerial support. “The job’ll fuckin’ ditch ya!”
    They believe they are at war! “Old-timers in the first or second campaign…”
    These particular gardai are violent, rascist, misogynists. This is an unquestionable fact at this point!

    As the father of two girls I am more than extremely troubled by their actions, ideas and notions.
    Right now? I don’t trust the guards.

    Right now, the message to Sean and Mary Citizen is, if we believe you are breaking the law then there will be violence, possibly sexual, visited upon you. I wonder how the Ban Gardai who have to serve with these neanderthals feel right now?

    One question I seriously want answered is why the girl who seemed to be holding the camera believed that the other girl being arrested wasn’t safe with “that man”?

  44.  

    Hi Norma,
    I switched it off half way through, after hearing the rape “jokes”.
    I couldn’t get over how farcical it was really. It was cringe worthy father Ted stuff.
    I don’t think they were imitating a previous scenario or anyone else, but kidding around with what they considered funny. I hope so at least.

    Unfortunately for them they were idiots, not checking that the camera was off. I don’t have not much sympathy for them to be honest, considering their treatment of the locals. If it were any else, I may be inclined to think, ah it was just a joke said in bad taste amongst some lads, who were unfortunate to get caught.

    But I really don’t have much sympathy for the clowns.
    My taxes are paying for their salaries and hefty pensions and they have just shown themselves to be a shower of incompetent, mé féiners.

    They talk about using facebook back at the station and that the sergeant had to put stickers on some computers saying to not use them for the internet. Is this what I’m paying my taxes for? Seriously?

    They obviously have too much time on their hands. Friend of mine told me once that a Garda friend of hers came to her and told her that a new car she had bought was crashed before. She never asked him to look this up. Too much time on their hands?

    Another friend of mine went on a date with a detective one time. Oh nevermind.. you could go on and on. They’ve too push time on their hands and have no business looking up information that has nothing to do with them.

    What was your interpretation of your daughters’ reaction?

  45.  

    1. There IS an Official Government level policy of intimidating protestors at Corrib, including the use of targetted violence by Gardiai and ‘contractors’, since about a year into the protests. Arrests lead to court cases. Court cases lead to evidence, serious questions and precedents being set …. oh, and publicity. The Publicity was what made the original order. So it’s not a case of a few bad apples… more like a rotten orchard.

    2. I know from my own experience in Elite Irish Catholic Boarding Schools that jokes were made about sexual assaults. ….. and also that NOTHING was done to protect the chidlren, and EVERYTHING was done to protect the assailants. I know of Politicains, currently in Power, who have said that what they witnessed and experienced in those Elite Institutions ‘made them the men they are’ or ‘were character forming’. Abuse takes many forms, and the IMF deal is one of those forms….

    3. A culture of abuse always tries to mitigated abuses perpetrated. Ireland, for all it’s tourist and Hollywood imagery is very much a culture of abuse and acceptance of abuse. Not that it’s unique in this respect. Some call our culture ‘the democracy of fear’. Every year in the Irish Republic HSE reports 12,000 cases of serious child abuse: there is NO mandatory reporting and so very few are passed on to the Civil Authorities…. we all know families where chidlren have been seriously abused and it’s all hush hush…..

    4. Read Kenneth Doyles ‘Mother From Hell’ for a detailed portrayal of how Gardia protected his Mother – who was abusing him and his brother BIG TIME – and how the Gardia, HSE and Barristers intimidated, denied, manipulated Kenneth every step of the way to protect their Institutions.

    5. Read ‘DEEP DECEPTION’ about the Pedophile rings operating within Irish Swimming Training all the way to the Olympic Swimmers… and how that too was ‘managed’ when it all came out in the 90s.. afew were taken to court, and all those who at first denied that anything untoward was going on, even still mitigate their actions – it was for the good of the swimming association, club, sport blah blah blah…

    5. The laughter of those Gardai was NOT that of a conversation being ‘surreal’ or ‘embarrasing’ – it was because they see their role as state sponsored abusers, as being totally protected, unless they make a ‘mistake’. They follow the rule book, or make it clear that to all appearances they are doing so and they can cover their backsides…. and as long as they don’t spill the beans they’ll be looked after.

    6. There’s now more evidence coming forwards of Uniformed Gardai making direct sexualised and abusive comments at Corrib protestors…………

    7. Any system of Power NEEDS abusers within it’s employees to retain that Power. It’s naive and foolish to miss that.

    8. And those same systems NEED a few good ‘uns to parade from time to time to ensure their cover.

    9. The good ‘uns RARELY WHISTLE BLOW. Why do you think that is? or What deters them?

  46.  

    I’ve heard worse than that on the telly – anyone watched peep show or the innbetweeners lately??? People always use humour as a way of dealing with situatons. I’m obviously not condoning rape but the word itself causes hysterics and in my opinion the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. These were a few guys blowing off steam and unfortunately their comments have been taken out of context.

  47.  

    Hi to you FME. I was curious as to my daughters reactions so I said nothing, One of them laughs at everything, Even her own mishaps and traumas, The other one is more the serious / sensitive type ! Both of them laughed and said it was a poor ” Fr. Ted ” imitation.
    I would agree with you thats its more farcical really, I do think though that its more of that distractive process that always seems to surface and overshadow the serious and grave issues which surround our society, Such as the ineptitude and incompetence of the Gardai in dealing with any kind of Protest, In this case the Corrib pipeline protest.
    I was in the local creamery a couple of years back and a man there was comlaining to the man working there about the price of something or other, When the creamery man went into the back to get the ” overpriced item ” the customer man turned to me and said ” That fellow needs a good rapin ” Sure i thought ” Nutter ” but not for a minute did i think he was going to do that, Maybe i’ve spent too long in the company of ” Hill dwellers ! “

  48.  

    hmmmmmmmm….

    Why do people protest?

    Usually when they are being adversely affected by the actions of others.

    Thus ‘handling protestors’ has meaning.

    Control. Suppression of truth. Gain. Power.

    For those with the eyes to see,and the heart to feel,it’s alll too easy to see how conditioning enables all of these, and is in fact neccessary when empathic relationships give way to Power relationships as the primary mode of any given Society, and of course to ‘survive’ is to adapt. Which defenceless children must do. As best they can.

    Wha was it that said what about “Adjusting to a sick Society……..!”?

  49.  

    Haha, Norma.. “spent too long in the company of hill dwellers”.. You never know what they get up to out on them hills I suppose.. You’d hope he was joking about the “rapin”.. if said with a glint in the eye and a licking of the lips you’d be more suspicious all right.

    You’re right though, it’s insignificant in relation to the real issue of what’s going on up there.
    The locals have a right to protest. They have a right to be consulted and treated fairly.. and if they don’t want to be paid off and their land used, then their rights should be respected. Seems the law only applies to the little man in this country. But you know what, if this recording helps their cause and gets them publicity, highlighting the contempt shown to them by the Guards and Shells skivvy men, then I’m all in support of it and won’t defend the bad joke. Watching the TG4 documentary on the Corrib pipeline -’The Pipe’, the Guards up there seemed to me to be an inept bunch of self serving, incompetent bruts. And I hope this recording shows this to everyone in the country. Even in this trailer of the documentary, you can see a Guard beating a protestor indiscriminately.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhZlbe_JdhI

    We abandon our own people. Why is that?
    Give away our resources for free and then intimidate and bully our own people from protesting at the rape of our country at the hands of corrupt politicians in collusion with big business.

  50.  

    This whole thing has been blown completely out of proportion as far as I’m concerned.

    Unprofessional conduct sure. Inappropriate, indeed. Non-PC etc etc

    But : “Right now, the message to Sean and Mary Citizen is, if we believe you are breaking the law then there will be violence, possibly sexual, visited upon you.”

    That is just fucking ridiculous.

  51.  

    I read in the paper this morning that one of the women involved in the ” Arrest ” procedure is demanding an ” International and Independent Enquiry ” So what will the end result be, Most likely outcome the Garda or Gardai who were recorded will spend their careers behind a desk and the rest of the force will double check that nobody has recording equipment, Other than that I doubt it will alter procedure , Attitude or Mind set one iota.

  52.  

    What will the terms of the international inquiry be — to find out if three gardai did in fact make a crude and insensitive joke while driving in a police car?

  53.  

    Looks like that. Who would conduct the International Enquiry ? Who would pay for the International Enquiry and what would be the likely outcome of an International enquiry……………..Yes, The Gardai made a crude and insensitive joke while wearing Garda uniforms and driving a Garda car, Now please Irish taxpayers that will be 2 million of your imaginary Euros, Danke, Merci…………..On your bike.
    ,

  54.  

    BTW the Gardai posted to Corrib come from all over the country. On a rotation basis. It’s a kind of training, buddy building, team exercise. Another way of weeding out those Gardai that might become ‘problematic’. Yer either with the team or your against the team.

    The accents on the tape are not Sligo, that’s fer sure!

  55.  

    I have to concur Bock; less than meets the eye. Some of the headlines suggested there was a tape of gardai threatening to rape a woman, three donkeys taking the mickey is a different thing. Are they wrong? yes! Is their attitude wrong? yes! But the story,(as a news item) is really not all that shocking or revealing.

  56.  

    The question of whether or not its a crime is interesting – I would say with certainty yes it is, and these cops should be made resign in shame, and then tried for it. Certainly if you were to joke about raping a cop you’d find out all about whether its a crime or not.

  57.  

    What do you reckon they should be charged with?

  58.  

    Maybe you could charge them with being arseholes. That carries a mandatory ten-year stretch these days, although Hector Ó hEochagáin succesfully appealed that recently.

  59.  

    a ten-year stretch for an arsehole?

    sounds a bit painful

  60.  

    Only for our beloved Hector. M’Lud reduced it on appeal to 9 years, 11 months, 30 days, 23 hours and 59 minutes.

    Hector in his prime

    The guy rocking back and forth on the chair – “Just out of the hospital Hector” priceless – and the response of the second guy. Exactly

  61.  

    “What will the terms of the international inquiry be — to find out if three gardai did in fact make a crude and insensitive joke while driving in a police car?”

    If you read the newspaper reports it is pretty clear that the inquiry being called for is in to the policing of the Corrib gas protests in total (which would include also the discussion on the tape of unsafe removal of protestors). it is also pretty obvious that the existence of the rape tape is allowing some public attention to be brought to the policing of those protests and allowing the call for an independant inquiry to be actually publicised. This may inhibit police violence in Erris to a degree – one might hope. What is the alternative for the opponents of the project, that they should tolerate police violence?

    On the issue of the tape itself – apart from the attitudes it displays – the fact it was very disturbing for the arrested persons to hear later is pretty obvious to anyone who has been in a situation of police violence.

  62.  

    If you read any of the previous posts on Erris, you’ll know exactly how this site views the issue.

  63.  

    As regards what, if any, charges coud be brought against them?
    They could certainly be charged with Sexual Harrassment.

    That being said, as I asked above, how do the ban gardai who work with them feel after hearing that kind of talk?

  64.  

    To the best of my knowledge, sexual harassment is not a crime in Irish law, but even assuming it is, would it not be necessary to prove that they deliberately recorded the conversation on the camera and deliberately released it knowing that the two women would hear the remarks?

  65.  

    I think it would have to be a civil case.
    And it doesn’t have to be the harrassment of the two women in question.
    Couldn’t it be judged that (in a Father Ted like fashion) they were harrassing each other :-)
    It was certainly sexual language used in an inappropriate manner in the workplace.

  66.  

    Not unless one of them felt harassed and made a complaint.

  67.  

    Yes there IS the Law. Then there is what is abusive, as opposed to nurturant; controlling as opposed to co-operation.

    The deeper underlying thread here is whether or not Irish people know what kind of community/society/culture we wish to create?

    Or do we just accept what be are born into the way it is, as immutable?

    Abuse is abuse, and abuse never ends abuse.

    And it’s always about insecurity, fear, inadequacy .

    Abuse occurs where the power disparity is such that there exists by coercion the ability and willingness to utilise violence as a tool of suppression, an immunity from accountability, command of the context within which the abused are placed, command of the story or narrative presentation of reality.

    And to my mind, that is the context of this story.

    I feel strongly that to treat it as a stand alone, singular event or as merely a piece of common place negatively biased humour is to miss the point.

  68.  

    you got to laugh at the comments by garda organisations in assuring the public that this is an isolated incident….yeah of course it is how many times does a piece of recording equipment get left on in their squad cars and get to record this.The fact that the one time it happened it was this kind of conversation it recorded which shows it to be very unlikely to be “an isolated incident”.

  69.  

    As far as I’m concerned this is more like a coporate policy problem.
    It’s the equivalent of someone sending an offensive email by accident to a colleague who gets offended.
    It might not actually be a crime but the employer can fire you if they wish.

  70.  

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/ian-odoherty/ian-odoherty-wow-i-really-lead-a-sheltered-life-2615319.html

    Ian O’Doherty is quite the sanctimonious shit.

    I assume he doesn’t watch stand-up comedy or watch family guy. He’s too pure to laugh at the creepy paedophile character in that of course.

    Anyway how dare he make light of heavy drinking, doesn’t he know how many people are affected by this terrible affliction…

  71.  

    And he says “Um”.

  72.  

    Remarkable silence from John McManus since he last accused me of being anti-police.

  73.  

    I think it says quite a lot about how rape is and has been traditionally viewed in this country. With blind eyes and curses of laughter. Something either to be ignored or if that’s not possible to be dealt with by attacking the victims. That such a mindset apparently exists amongst those sworn to defend this society is no surprise considering how prevalent it is within society in general. Fuck’s sake it wasn’t even a CRIME to rape your wife in Ireland until the early nineties. She was yours. Same as yours children. Same as the oul cow out in the field and the chickens runnin round in the nettles. You could do what you liked with your chattels. The law may have changed but the mindset has not.

  74.  

    You are a police officer. You are not a teenager. Cop on. Be professional. Jesus Christ !
    These are the buffoons you are supposed to go to if you have been raped??? And then you face the courts who give out laughably short sentences? Well good luck ladies, I admire your fortitude.

  75.  

    Lucky for them they weren’t caught telling the joke about the main cause of paedophilia.

  76.  

    if those guards want to be comedians then they should turn in their badges and head for comedy central and see how they get on.Otherwise shut their pig ignorant mouths and do the fucking job we overpay them to do.And I dont mean beating up protesters or arresting them for the pleasure of showing them who the “boss” is.

  77.  

    You calling me an idiot?

  78.  

    NO!

    Far from it. Yer erudite, perceptive, prolific and intelligent. And humourus.

    And on this one, yer way off, my friend.

    Bill Donahue and the Catholic League are idiots, malign ones at that.

  79.  

    I need to draw your attention to something. Not all posts here are about the Catholic church. For example, this one isn’t.

  80.  

    Yes, and the culture of abuse includes the Catholic Church, as much as any other Institution and it’s Officials, be they Gardai, Social Workers, Troops, Priest, Bishops, Prime Ministers or Popes.

    Compartmentalised thinking protects the culture of abuse. Being able, and willing, to observe the patterns is absolutely crucial in breaking that culture down, in exposing how it permeates Society.

  81.  

    Corneilius — I’d suggest that your own thinking needs some reconsideration, since you try to gently guide almost every subject you comment on towards your specialised subject: the Catholic church. Please allow me to keep this one firmly on the police, if you don’t mind.

  82.  

    I understand what you are saying, and yet, and this is crucial, the issue is the ABUSE OF POWER. Thus we can see patterns as we explore how various abuses of Power are perpetuated across different structures of Power. Being able to discern those patterns is really important. Being able to link them in a coherent thesis is also crucial, especially so in developing long term responses and strategies to break these cycles.

    My specialised subject is abuse, power relationships and the undermining of natural empathy. The fact that the Church figures largely is co-incidental, as well as part of my own history. I know so much more about abuse having been abused for so long, having had my abuse denied, having been blamed by all and sundry for the symptoms of abuse that I displayed.

    The Gardai are well known for their abusive activities, (as is true of the Irish State Government and Civil Service) across a wide range of behaviours, and whilst there may be a few ‘good coppers’, and few good men and women here and there, who are often trotted out as examples of the ‘finest’, these organisations and their leaderships are corrupt to the core.

    You tried to make light of the jokes of these Gardai, and tried to minimise the meaning of those events. It is this kind of attitude, amongst many other factors, that gives such organisations the lee-way to perpetuate their culture of abuse, and thwarts a solid critical analysis of the dynmaics of abuse and power structures.

  83.  

    No Corneilius. I did not try to make light of anything. Do not patronise me.

    I presented my interpretation of what happened. You don’t have to accept it, but I will ask you to respect it.

  84.  

    I don’t think I was patronising you at all Bock. And yes, I don’t accept that your take on this ‘incident’ is valid. I don’t think it was merely a quip.

    Here’s another example of a joke, uttered by a person who exercise Power and has authority coferred upon him, and with that responsibility, caught on tape, not at all clandestinely or ‘accidentally’.

    Obama and ‘predator drones’.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52JVljZW_cw&feature=player_embedded

    Is it a ‘just a joke’? Or is it indicative of the danger of the Hubris of Power, be it a POTUS or a Garda, whose status confers a certain ability to inflict harm on others without the ability of those others to defend themselves? Anyone who defends themself against a Garda, even if the Garda is in the wrong, is immediately in jeopardy, because they will be charged with assaulting a police officer. Gardai know this. It forms a protective sheath. And they use it.

  85.  

    jj

  86.  

    some good comments here! the majority of rape victims are women, and as a female you are aware of this personal danger your whole life, so, therefore, to get an insight into the mindset of these particular men from a female’s perspective will have a completely different impact than it will to a lot of men.

    Their comments, joke or not, represent an attitude that will also directly affect women in that jurisdiction as these are employed Gardai for that jurisdiction! They are practicing Gardai in supposedly the role of protecting men, women and children and that’s simply not the kind of mindset that can exist for a Gardai position.

    If it were a child they were referencing they would not get such an acceptable non existing reprimand. Or then again…

  87.  

    If somebody had incorrectly accused the Gardaí of being rapists, would you have the same view of this conversation, which they believed was private?

Leave a Reply

/* ]]> */