Sep 012011
 

Let’s be clear about the Dale Farm case.  The traveller settlement there was never legal.  It never had planning permission, and the local council has been serving enforcement notices on the people there since they started setting up camp.

It was always illegal, and the fact that they dragged out the process for eight or ten years, at public expense, doesn’t change that reality.  They should not be there.  What bit of that does Vanessa Redgrave not understand?

It doesn’t matter that a member of the multi-millionaire Sheridan clan bought an old scrapyard and managed to get planning permission for a few dwellings on it.  The people who arrived afterwards and set up a gigantic settlement without sanitation had no right to do so.

It’s a pity that their children go to local schools and it’s a pity that one women is very sick, but that arose because of their illegal actions, not because Basildon Council did anything or because the local people did anything.  The travellers chose to camp illegally and now they must deal with the consequences, including the fact that they sent their children to local schools and that they made a sick woman live in an illegal camp.

None of this is the responsibility of the Essex authorities.  They did not create the situation and neither did the citizens of Basildon.  The travellers caused it, even though I’ve probably done more travelling myself  than they did in the last few years.

I feel sorry for the children, but the problem was caused by their parents and by nobody else.  If I set up an illegal caravan park, I’d be closed down, and so would you.

Why should a different law apply to Rathkeale travellers, or to anyone else?  I thought it was all about equality.  The same standard for you as for me, even if you happen to be a millionaire from Rathkeale and I happen to be Joe Soap.

 

 

 

  54 Responses to “Dale Farm Travellers Lose High Court Eviction Appeal”

Comments (54)
  1.  

    I agree.

  2.  

    if you put a tent up on a roundabout or god forbid in church grounds, you wouldn’t be long seeing the long arm of the law, proceedings or not. Sorry, I mean if you paid tax and were not a threat to the personal safety of said establishments.

  3.  

    Spot on Bock!

  4.  

    Cunts

  5.  

    It’s true that they should not be allowed to break the law,it’s true that the farthest they “travel”seems to be a lot less than most of us,however it’s also true that the land has not been greenbelt for a long time and Basildon are misusing the law also.

  6.  

    They should all Move On – to wherever that is, except within stonethrowing distance of my back yard. A liberal is somebody who earnestly believes that travelling people have the right to be housed in somebody else’s housing estate. I am not such a liberal. I am not agitating for the rehousing of travellers. I know of an asylum family who were eventually allocated a public authority home a few doors away from a rehoused traveller family – and the two families are not on speaking terms. Who wants to be a liberal in such difficult cases? What is a true liberal anyway?

  7.  

    Steve..Do you think the reason its not a green zone for a couple of years is that theres several hundred squatters shitting on it for the last ten? Maybe its a ‘brown zone’?

  8.  

    The term “Green Belt” is not a physical description of the site. It’s a planning designation. Residential development is not permitted in a green belt, including camps, halting sites and caravan parks.

  9.  

    The Sheridans from Rathkeale? does’nt it give you a warm fuzzy feeling to know you helped fund the purchase of this site

  10.  

    Fuck the Travellers.Since the demise of the building business,the travellers have targeted farms and homes,significantly around my neighbourhood.They are pumping out oil-tanks and robbing anything not chained down.I wouldnt want a halting site anywhere near,whether legal or otherwise.Those people in Basildon will throw a party when that site is bulldozed and proper order.

  11.  

    Why do we tolerate travellers setting up camp anywhere they like, and why does it take so long to move them on? The taxpayer is constantly burdened with the clean up bill afterwards. They don’t give a shit about anyone, so, fuck em!

  12.  

    I agree with every post here!

  13.  

    The only travelling they seem to do is from christening to christening to get multiple baptism certificates in order to travel
    from benefit office to benefit office in later years.

  14.  

    Just wondering if there are a lot of vermin on the site?

  15.  

    I believe you are misinformed, the Irish travelling community do in fact own the land and the legal argument only lies in the fact that buildings have been erected without planning permission. I live 15 minutes from this site and I personally stand behind the travelling community. Also Basildon Council are legally bound to provide alternative halting sites and have not done so – where are these families expected to move to? Finally, when it suits Basildon Council to build even on “green belt” designated areas, they do so without any hesitation whatsoever – residents of this area have witnessed this on numerous occasions even when substantial petitions have been signed by locals. As for your comments on vermin, I left Limerick some 21 years ago and when I am forced to revisit, all I see is pyjamas wearing vermin and the same pretentiously built city that always existed – no change there then!

  16.  

    The legal argument only lies in the fact that buildings have been erected without planning permission?

    You must be Vanessa Redgrave.

    That’s the whole point: they have no planning permission. It isn’t some sort of minor technicality. Let me repeat it slowly.

    They. Have. No. Planning. Permission.

    Now. Is that clearer for you?

  17.  

    Fact is that the travelling community are trated differently to the rest of us in law. When taking on new people at work one of the questions on the application form is “Are you a member of the travelling community?” A positive answer to that question results in a completely different set of parameters on that person’s employment and position within the company (should they be accepted for the position for which they have applied). They all seem to be aware of this and often, if refused employment, automatically set in force a process of investigation as to wether they were “Refused on grounds of ethnicity”. This absolutely stinks, mainly because they are afforded legal aid to appeal and also to the fact that there are many “Ambulance chaser” solicitors ready to fight their corner. Many of the younger members of the travelling community apply for jobs purely in the knowledge that they can set this process in motion and maybe in line for some compensation. Slightly off topic I know, but my point is that when these people congregate in the same location they are given any amount of legal advice as to the legality of settlement. They then proceed to totally ignore the law and protest that they are only doing what they have done for generations and that any attempt to move them on can only be done after extensive legal contact which innevitably costs the tax payer millions in legal costs. I therefore believe that this crowd are actually involved in a money making scam that will eventually lead to them profiting from the total misery that they cause to anyone unfortunate enough to be in the locality. Make the feckers join the system, start with paying taxes…………

  18.  

    Not Vanessa Redgrave at all – but hats off to her for her support. You seem hellbent on focussing on only one aspect of the argument and who am I to argue with a fiercely self-righteous and dogmatic personality. The point remains however that there is also the legal argument that had Basildon Council erected adequate halting sites – f**k knows they have had ten years – current events would not now be happening. Also if this site was occupied by blacks, asians, or any of the “anians”, then this would never happen – the R word and Human Rights Act would have been banded about left, right and centre. Yes you have been perfectly clear about planning permission, I don’t need a further explanation – you are in danger of becoming a bore! If you cannot handle comments in opposition to your own then you should not have a blog.

  19.  

    Who the hell wants tinkers nearby only other tinkers?
    Serious question.

    And ‘gone from Limerick -TG, for who?’ no one gives a fiddlers if you don’t appreciate your time back in Limerick on your “forced” visits. Stay where you are.

    Came across this from Redgrave in the Guardian,
    “Redgrave said she had supported Gypsy communities across Europe since she became conscious of how “minorities were destroyed” under Hitler. ” Isn’t that lovely.
    Tis all Hitlers fault that the travellers don’t abide by the law.

  20.  

    Gone — I hope you don’t mind me shortening your handle. They don’t have planning permission. It doesn’t matter whether they’re Irish, African or Asian.

    They have no planning permission and they were told so immediately they set up camp.

    You can’t develop a site without planning permission, neither can I and that’s exactly as it should be. The same law should apply to everyone, even if they happen to be millionaires from Rathkeale.

  21.  

    How often do we read of people who aren’t from the travelling community , being forced to demolish an extension or rebuild a building in a different location because they never abided by the decision of the planners? Yet when these people decide to “Do as they like” it sets in motion a knee jerk reaction by sectors of the human rights brigade? They wouldn’t like them in their back garden I’ll bet, ;eaving all manner of waste and shite behind when they vacate the place. Every summer we have a crowd of travellers set up camp near Loghill in West Limerick and for weeks after they have left the place is in a shit state. Bags of excrement left in hedgerows, sanitary ware dumped in the lane etc etc, How would anyone be expected to put up with that?
    Yet they break the law and don’t have to face the consequences for it.They rob and steal because “its part of their heritage2? NO, they rob and steal because they get away with it because the law doesn’t know how to deal with them. The laws on travellers relate to travellers of many generations ago, not the 2011 plate Jeep/Range Rover driving theives of today.

  22.  

    At FME: Yes, thank God I have gone indeed and long gone will I stay.

    Generally: It is your small one sided, semi-retarded and parochial logic that has indeed brought a wry smile to my face. Don’t get dressed whatever you do, stay in your pyjamas, have the itinerants parked on the main gateway into Limerick i.e. the Dublin road, continue 24 garda patrols of certain designated areas within your beloved city, get your abacus and keep counting your murderous death toll. And you can laud all this condescension of the travelling community! I’m from Limerick” – sshhh don’t say that too loudly or too proudly – you’ll forgive me if I don’t take you too seriously!! Thank you and good night xxxx

  23.  

    Gone — This discussion is about Basildon.

    We don’t need any lectures about our town from outsiders.

  24.  

    Cunts, like snails, they carry their house with them wherever they go and leave a trail of shite behind them everywhere the cunts.

  25.  

    Your right about the planning permission.They should abide by law like everyone else.I think its the scale of the site thats the problem.Why do I say this? Well where I live in west london there are thousands of what are euphemistically called granny annexes built in the gardens of semi detached houses.These buildings have gas, water, and electricity.Some of these buildings are dangerous.They are used for extended families until they can afford a place of their own.None have planning permission and are almost entirely Asain.I am talking about areas like Southall,Hounslow and Ealing.I am sure it happens in Basildon and other areas as well,but in somebodys back garden where it is not so obvious.Apply the law equally is my is my observation innit! Thank you for your blog over the years. I always look forward to them.
    Sheskin

  26.  

    There’s no doubt a nomadic lifestyle would suit a certain element it’s criminal or tax evading persuits. There are some areas in the settled community also that are “no go” and while often their inhabitants complain about bad conditions etc, many stay there by choice as “no go” areas also suit the above mentioned “persuits” – areas where Gardai don’t venture for fear of a concrete block landing on them etc!
    However, whatever your views you have to accept that you can’t paint an entire group with the one brush. BUT,
    if people wish to live in a country they must be subject to it’s laws however, even if they don’t agree with same! (whatever their persuasion!)

  27.  

    The lady representing the travellers who spoke on radio was quite emphatic. We are English, she said. We all have English passports.

    Fair enough.

  28.  

    I have some friends who are members of the travelling community but are now settled. Just ordinary folk. Some of these comments would upset them – I have to agree with your post, the law is the law but some of the comments are over the top?

  29.  

    People get upset. That’s their own business. It’s outside my remit.

  30.  

    While not wishing to tar everybody with the same brush,some travellers give the others a bad name.
    Having seen what is left after a group of travellers have set up camp on an accessible patch of ground;nappies,old televisions,
    broken bicycles and the remains of fires used to remove the insulation from wire – I felt that travellers bring a lot of the settled community’s animosity toward them upon themselves.
    Were they to go about the country parking up and moving on without
    leaving any trace of their passing nobody would mind.
    Instead they want the best of both worlds without the responsibilities and duties of either.

  31.  

    Isn’t this just another distraction? Illegal encampment closed down. It happens every day all over Europe with the influx of Romanian beggars occupying dissused housing, happened around the corner from me just a year ago. The Romanians are gone no drama if they want to be called travellers let them move on. There has to be more important shit going on than a bunch of tinkers breaking the law!
    As for Gone, seriously the way you go on about Limerick you are not being missed, I am gone 20years and I miss it pygamas n’all like.

  32.  

    Seems to me both sides aren’t blameless.

    I agree the travellers had no plannjing permission and without visiting the site I expect it to be in shite but that’s not to say all travellers are like that. I lived in Wexford for years and knew some great itinerants/travellers. They were honest, hard working and spent their time collecting and selling antiques.

    This lot in Basildon seem to be just squatters and as you said Bock, we’ve probably done more travelling ourselves.

    Regarding the council, they have some obligation to find a site but for how many ? What if every traveller family arrived in the area. I believe the adjacent councils provide no facilities (and this is not right).

    Suffice to say we only know what the media tell us and that has a slant in favour of us ‘settled’ folk (I assume).

    The whole thing is a crock of shit really especially for the kids and old people (and those who are sick and infirm)

    Lovely world altogether.

  33.  

    I know a guy who built a massive conference centre near Dublin with no planning, and afterwards he got his planning retention.
    Same stuff goes on in U.K. but not to nearly the same extent. You don’t get away with too much there!
    Regarding leaving of rubbish on the roadside, Lots of fly tipping went on in wicklow mountains, by arseholes of the highest order! It is a particular type of arsehole who leaves rubbish on the roadside. It really says “two fingers to the rest of you” I got black bags full of rubbish on the roadsides in my area on 3 different occasions, once it was locals who did it, once residents of nearby Naas and once residence of blessington. ! They all left their laser receipts etc in it. Travellers would not have bin collections etc but still there’s no excuse for what sometimes goes on with them. There are laws relating to littering which should be enforced and indeed enhanced.

  34.  

    Isn’t it great?
    Millionaires, land, celebrities, the dysfunctional disenfranchised? Brings to mind the oil barons who took what they wanted too with scant regard for laws. Reminds me of ‘Dallas’!
    Who’ll play the Sue Ellen?
    So much material – where to begin . . . . . . . .

  35.  

    Traveller children from Dale Farm attend local schools but do not fare well academically mainly due,I presume,to their poor attendance record.It may also be noted that many non Traveller Basildon natives withdrew their children from schools attended by Dale Farm children.I doubt if such withdrawals occurred in the Rathkeale area but do suspect that the Travelling Community Parents there will never be fully compliant with Dept of Education attendance regulations thereby denying their children their rights to a full education and the opportunity to become fully integrated citizens,if they so wish

  36.  

    Vanessa Redgrave? She sounds very familiar for all the wrong reasons. Wasn’t she quite devoted to Pat Healy, a bit of a martinet in left wing circles in Britain?

  37.  

    Vanessa Redgrave during her acting career and public roleplaying career has championed a range of lost causes. She stood for parliament so many years ago for a loony trotskyist group and lost her deposit. She refused a public honour offered to her by the Tony Blair government, so she seems to have strong personal principles. Here is a wikipedia entry on her notable public profile:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Redgrave

    I personally don’t know what to make of her. Did she visit and befriend the Dale Farm disputants?

  38.  

    hilarious.

    A defense of Basildon council.

    Those famous freedom fighters for liberty, equality and fraternity

    Innit.

  39.  

    Are you saying the encampment actually has planning permission?

  40.  

    Gerry Healy, my mistake.

  41.  

    Basildon council along with a lot of other local authorities in the UK has been giving the finger to the legal system for decades in refusing to provide, as they are legally obliged too, traveller accomodation. But of course no one ever took them to court for breaking the law.

    Now your enemies enemies are your friend. The chavs of Basildon, a class you delight in despising, are now your friends because they are shitting on another group you despise, travellers.

    O what a tangled web of irony goes into the politics of hate.

  42.  

    Does the development have planning permission?

  43.  

    you know the answer to that question, so don’t waste my time. Did Iraq have WMD? Did Ivor Callelly live in Cork? Did Bertie Ahern really spend squiggly amounts of money on his secretaries?

    Who cares? What they did was inside the law, right?

    Hate uses up a lot of energy so I don’t blame you trying to stay on point.

    Just realise that when the society you live in despises, hates and disrespects you, the rule of law no longer obtains.

  44.  

    The only time-wasting here is by you. If the encampment has no planning permission, it’s illegal and that’s the end of the matter.

  45.  

    we’ll see………

    meanwhile enjoy your dangerous liaisons

  46.  

    Or my rabbit is in danger?

  47.  

    Your lurcher more like!

  48.  

    chuckle brother marque two in training.

  49.  

    Shellshock, do you have something to contribute to this discussion?

  50.  

    you are hoisted on your own hatefilled prejudiced petard.

    I think my work here is done.

    Thanks for the laugh.

  51.  

    So you don’t have anything to contribute.

  52.  

    Shellshock I have to agree with Bock on this while I’m all for travellers rights you cant just decide to stop up where ever teh hell you feel like laying your hat.

  53.  

    “Just realise that when the society you live in despises, hates and disrespects you, the rule of law no longer obtains.” Almost could have been used for promotion of past voilent strategies here…
    also reference to chuckle brothers – again echoes of our recent troubles at home?
    Methinks Shellshock might support militant approach?
    Better watch out Msr. Bock, blanket bombing of Limerick, Shellshock and awe…

  54.  

    Must check spelling before click submit, must check speling before, ….FECK

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