When The World Owes You A Living

What do a millionaire Killiney couple and an unemployed Moyross mother of four have in common?  Not much, you might imagine, until you compare the demands they make and their complete blindness to the notion of personal responsibility.

On the face of it, you might think that the Kellys, who entertained and enraged the country in equal measure recently, share little or nothing with Serinna Corbett, but then you dig beneath the surface to discover that they have precisely the same outlook on life if not, perhaps, the same guile.

These two cases embody the distorted, unreal thinking that beset our country and consumed those of every class and status, including politicians and bankers.  I’m not responsible.  Somebody else is.  Just give me the money.

The Kellys, you’ll recall, were thrown out of their palatial €4 million mansion next door to Gavin O Reilly, recently ousted from Independent News & Media.  They set up a tent on the side of the road and compared themselves to poor Irish peasants in the 19th century, evicted by evil landlords. It mattered to them not a tittle that they had defaulted on their mortgage and that the cost of the loss would fall on the public purse.  They wanted the house anyway, even if the taxpayer had to cover the loss.  Uncomfortably for Brendan and Asta, the papers did a bit of digging and discovered that they owned 21 apartments in Dublin and a further 13 in London.

Serinna Corbett and Crying Child

Now, on a much smaller scale, but with precisely the same mentality, we have a Limerick woman, Serinna Corbett, who has launched a media campaign to get a bigger council house.


Well, according to the Limerick Leader, Serinna thinks her living conditions are beyond human endurance.  Having a 13 year old, and an 18-month-old sleeping in the same room is just wrong. It’s just not on. She wants a bigger house from the council.

According to Serinna, the 13-year-old has ADHD, which she says causes fits and hallucinations. (It doesn’t).  He might wake up in the middle of the night and attack the baby, she says.  Oddly, the obvious solution doesn’t seem to occur to her: bring the baby into your own bedroom.  No.  The baby must sleep in a place where he faces danger, just as the other children have done for five years now.  You see, according to Serinna, the heating is defective, and the children ran the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning.  This danger didn’t prevent her turning on the heating though, which seems a strange thing to do when you believe it threatens your children’s lives.

Serinna’s clincher is this: there’s another baby on the way.  You have to stand back and think about this for a minute.  Another child on the way?  Well, how the hell did that happen?  Did a postcard arrive through the letterbox?  Hi, future mother.  See you soon.  Best wishes,  Your New Baby.

Serinna, apparently, wants to qualify as a midwife, which is great news.  At least she’ll find out where babies come from but in the meantime this fait accompli seems to be sufficient for Serinna.  I got pregnant.  Now sort it out.

No.  Just no.

Exactly like the Kellys, there’s a complete disconnection between actions and consequences.  You live in a house that you consider too small for your family, so what’s the obvious next step?  That’s right, bring another child into the world, and then make it some other person’s responsibility.  The rest of us in the real world, work out what we can afford, how many children we can clothe, feed, shelter and educate, but not, it seems, on Planet Entitlement, an enchanted fairytale place where everything is free no matter how much you screw up.

Amazingly, the mayor of Limerick, Jim Long, gave this woman 90 minutes of his valuable time, according to the Leader.  What exactly did they discuss for an hour and a half, and more to the point, has he nothing better to do?  Wait — don’t bother answering that.

Go away, Serinna.  Go away Brendan Kelly.  Take some responsibility for what you do, instead of expecting the public to cover the cost of your behaviour.  Isn’t it about time we started connecting actions with consequences in this country?  Isn’t it about time we started relating rights to responsibilities?

When you point out fairly obvious things, people tend to brand you as a fascist, even though all you’re doing is pointing out fairly obvious problems.  I don’t know why this is, but it seems to be the reality.  Maybe it’s because those criticising the viewpoint come from such privileged backgrounds that they have the luxury to point fingers without ever having to worry about economic realities.  Who can tell?  I don’t know.

174 thoughts on “When The World Owes You A Living

  1. Shocking similarity. I’d imagine she regrets drawing any attention to herself now, there are people baying for her blood in the comments section of the Leader. Yes, we all deserve to live in a house that’s habitable, but this is just a joke! I lived in a council house for four years with my son sleeping in a WINDOWLESS room. Yes, I did say windowless. Call a fucking gas maintanance man, sort out your pipes (heating and otherwise) and move a few beds around. Simple!

  2. Has he nothing better to do? wait don’t answer that.You are a cruel mab Bock, but spot on.

  3. These pleas for sympathy have gladly gone tits up on the parasitic cunts. Did they not think people would go digging? Cunts. (sorry for the over use of the C word. Cunts nonetheless)

  4. You’re on the money again Bock. I’d imagine you’ll be doing similar readership numbers on this as what you saw for the first article on the Kellys

  5. I don’t like condemning individuals like Serinna..
    I think this post is showing bad form Bock. Sure you’ll get the mob in again to condemn alright. But she’s a mother.. on her own most likely too. I don’t think it’s right.
    The newspapers are already filled with condemnation for those committing social welfare fraud, (not that Serinna is) which in my opinion is distracting from focusing on the real criminals who ruined this country.

    If there’s social housing, should some standards not apply to the housing?
    With more and more people defaulting on their mortgages and their homes being repossessed, should they be put out on the streets?

  6. A lot of posts removed tonight, Bock. Doing a bit of spring cleaning? :-)

    For what it’s worth, I agree with you. That Jim Long would entertain this cretin proves how out of touch policy can be with the real world. We all carry a lot of responsibilies on our shoulders, and I personally cringe at the thought of having to rely on the State for anything, where some would happily whinge and whine til they get what they want. Yeah, sure, fix the heating for her. Give that ADHD teenager a room of his own, and maybe putting the toddler in the same room as herself might act as a deterrent from spawning more Corbett saplings, especially when her imminent bundle of joy arrives…

    And don’t start me about that farce in Killiney…

  7. I stand corrected. Maybe my browser was acting the mickey for a while, but all the posts are back. Most of them , anyway…

  8. FF1 — I didn’t go looking for Serinna. She sought out the publicity, talking to the papers and on radio, and this is my response.

    There’s no evidence that the house is sub-standard. She simply wants a bigger one, but doesn’t everyone? Tough luck, Serinna. This is the house you have. If you want more spacious accommodation, go and pay for it.

  9. Well Bock, your voice of reason is drawing the usual contributors from the Limerick Leader over to you as they have decided to be very selective on the posts they allow their members leave. No one is allowed to call a spade a spade. Myself and a number of the sensible regular posters on their forums are now switching our allegiance to you, in the hope that this story is not allowed die down, and that it may force an audit of every inch of the scrounging parasite’s life as far as her dipping the public purse is concerned.

  10. @FF1. You need to understand that Serinna and her loving partner (not the father of 3 of her 4 children, with another on the way) is only having the 5th child in order to force the councils hand to give her a bigger home. Neither she nor partner ever held down a job that was more than 15 hours per week, yet in the last 24 months, she has been to Disneyland, Portugal and bought him a car. Now that is not a woman on her uppers, and those are the reasons why so many are furious with the press and mayor time given to her. Her Facebook page highlights social events she has attended that only the rest of us can dream about. I work 50 hours a week to support my family, have not had a holiday in 5 years, pay my mortgage etc etc, like so many others here, and we have every right to question her on how she affords such a lifestyle on social welfare.Social Welfare that is provided by our taxes and IMF loans. There is only one answer, and that is obvious to anyone over 10.

  11. Victor Mildew for mayor. Victor you’re a wonderful, contributing member of society. A real hero.
    Well done Victor. You’ve paid taxes. Fantastic.

    “not the father of 3 of 4 children” must have separated then did they? Disgraceful altogether.

    Bock, I thought the house was substandard in that it needed plastering done and the heating was defective. That qualifies as substandard to me.

    Let’s face facts, you’re going to have a awful lot more people requiring social housing with things the way they are in this country.
    How many homes are being repossessed on a weekly basis at the moment? These people will need housing.
    Tax payers are going to have to pay for that. Unfortunately.
    Or should they be turfed out on the street?

  12. I can’t relate on a personal level to either the Kelly’s or S.Corbett. I have been accused of extreme pragmatism in the past but the sense of extreme ” Entitlement ” in both cases, being what they have in common just gives me ire.

    I to have 5 children, all adults now and whereas i don’t believe my values should be anything special and i do try to ” put the shoe on the other foot ” when presented with my particular bugbear, which is that sense of entitlement peculiar to some people, I completly fail to see how they always manage to seperate their actual reality from what they are trying to achieve at the expense of others.

    I remember once many years ago when a financial advisor friend was trying to give me some good advice regarding my Business / work / family life, he asked me to keep a log of the exact amount of hours i worked so as to objectivly assess if i was actually getting a realistic monetary recompense out of said work. I tried , but decided that if i confronted myself with such a reality, as my calculations had reached in excess of 90 hrs per week, i would experience way too much demoralisation and at the time i believed i had little choice but to keep going until i had the Bank off my back, it took 10 years to do that and in that time my house was a disgrace and chaotic, but my kids were happy, healthy, educated and well adjusted.
    I’m not suggesting my way is the only way but i believed that i had to give my kids an example of getting through the rough patchs, my youngest has a saying she regularly uses ” Theres no pity party being hosted here, get it together ! ”

    To FFI, We are back to disagreement, when someone engages in a Publicity campaign to achieve an agenda based on their own warped reality they make themselves fair game for those people who against all the odds presented to them currently have lost all tolerance for such ludicrous ideals demanded without any investment of effort from those same people, as is evident in both cases.

  13. as i understand it, the centrally collected national financial resources are being diverted wholesale, by this so-called government, to feed the insatiable greed of the incompetent banking establishment, Irish and European – without the permission of the Irish population.

    The nationally collected revenue resources should be prioritized for social needs, not propping up fucking banks.

    There is something like 500,000 empty houses in this country. Houses that were not built for social need – whose building was permitted by incompetent local councils. However the houses are there now, and should be employed to meet the social requirements of the population.

    The housing requirements of a mother and her children are always more important than any bank, and should be prioritized accordingly.

    There should be no problem providing her and her children with the accomodation they require, and the State should ensure that good housing is provided for them promptly, and indeed all children.

    It’s utter nonsense to say that the State can no longer afford – in the present climate – to cater for the social and financial requirements of families, of children, of schools, of hospitals, etc.

    It’s just a matter of prioritizing where State resources must go : whether towards social needs, or towards an unaccountable antisocial financial establishment.

    The State clearly has decided that the “needs” of the banks trump everything else.

    Why would ordinary people, as sadly indicated by other comments on this page, and indeed by the original post, want to vent their ignorance, their frustrations, their prejudices towards one ordinary family looking for better accomodation ?

    Direct your collective anger intelligently where it belongs : against the banking establishment, and it’s supporters.

    That way something useful might be achieved.

  14. First off, Ms Serenna is a tenant of Limerick City Council, a conclusion I reach because rent was mentioned in the discussion on the Limerick leader forum. As such, she has an entitlement to having any necessary repairs done to the house by the City Council’s housing maintenance section. Even if she didn’t communicate that properly to them, the Mayor as a public representative should be in a position to ensure that such repairs are carried out. Therefore, none of her arguments concerning the unsuitability of her current accommodation carry any validity.
    Nest, she clarified that the reason she says that two of her children can’t share a bedroom is because of behavioural issues deriving from a psychological/psychiatric condition afflicting the older child which put the younger child at risk. She offers no professional confirmation of this, despite probably being entitled to free health care and thus access to appropriate consultants. If she had such an opinion from an apporpriately-qualified professional in a formal written assessment, the City Council would be again obliged to arrange accommodation for her in accordance with her needs – that is the law.
    None of the above seems to be happening, hence the scorn being poured on her by taxpayers and workers bothe here on Bocktherobber and on the Limerick leader article. Those people feel that their work and taxes should not meet the petulant demands of Serinna, who appears to be making no useful contribution to society despite being young, healthy and obviously energetic.
    We have for decades had free primary and secondary education in this country – an opportunity equally open to all. If somebody reaches adulthood without a basic skill such as literacy in English, it is their own fault – they were doing something else while they should have been paying attention in school. Moyross has a fabulous school, I’ve been in it – so no fool’s pardon there for anyone.
    @MacKnee – the reason most of us are now working to pay back foreign banks for loans we didn’t borrow is that our democratically-elected former Finance Minister and Taoiseach guaranteed Irish bank debts on our behalves, having presided over the flawed regime that allowed that debt to occur in the first instance.
    In a local context, you only need look at the tunnel in Limerick that isn’t now paying its way. That absolutely unnecessary and unwarranted tunnel was built with borrowed capital as a vanity project, at five times the cost of a bridge. That is but one example – there are probably thousands like it all over the country.
    The reason the vacant houses around the country can’t, and I hope won’t, be given to Serenna and her ilk, is the constitutional guarantee of property rights, and the constitution is ultimately owned by the people of Ireland. Somebody owns those houses, and their ownership is protected by the same law that protects mine. If you blame incompetent local councils for the excess supply of houses, you must next ask yourself how and why did incompetent people get elected to those positions. The answer is simple enough. We vote for likable, personable characters who go to funerals and sporting fixtures, who obsequiously ‘ask’ us for our votes at election times and who refer to a near-forgotten civil war that happened nearly a century ago as the basis for their ideologies. We then expect those elected policy makers to intermeddle on our behalves to get every sort of concession from the public service imaginable. A huge proportion of our population don’t vote at all in elections, with the result that someone like Dim Schlong can become Mayor of a city with a population of 70,000 with about 400 votes!
    Is it any wonder then that someone like Serenna thinks that all you have to do to have the taxpayer fund your lifestyle is howl about your lot.

  15. @FF1
    There is no need for sarcasm. Taxpayers have no issue with assistance being given, once it is distributed in a fair way. What has become abundantly clear from the posts on the Limerick Leaders website is that his particular woman has being bleeding it dry.Inspite of her pleas, she and 2 of her friends have claimed she is also entitled to go on her family holiday this year, from money she has saved from her social welfare entitlements. Social Welfare is given to families to provide for the daily needs, not to to pay for lavish holidays to Spain.

    The reference to the parentage of her children was in response to facts given by her friends on the afore mentioned forum. Her current partner is actually praised as a fine father for taking on other men’s children so no divorce there. What you should have done was to refer to the original source of the story and it’s attributed comments before shooting off on here. As the old saying goes, “put your brain in gear, before putting your mouth in motion”

    If the men she has laid down with were decent folk, who looked after their offspring, she would not be in the position she is in, and certainly not looking for the taxpayers to fund her lifestyle.

  16. Victor – if anyone posts a comment that has the faintest hint of defamation it will be dropped from here just as quick as the Leader.

  17. I have no issue with that Bock, and will respect that rule, and that will be evident in any of my posts.

  18. I don’t think its at all ok for the debate to descend into areas of private, personal relationships, everyone, regardless of their agenda is entitled to privacy regarding such matters.

  19. Norma the lady in question held nothing back, it was there for all to see on her Facebook pages which were open to the public. She went to the Mayor, she went to the Limerick Leader and she posted information herself. No one else posted her private details – they were all referenced from her public Facebook profile. And in the light of the matter, were fair game in gauging her “needs”

  20. Victor Mildew, get a life would you.
    Seriously petty shite coming from you. Why don’t you tell us about your relationships Victor.. how much tax have you actually paid? Have you ever been on a holiday ever Victor? What ya get up to?
    Actually I don’t fucking care. buh byeee.

    I hate these posts. I hate people prying into anyone’s personal life.
    Why can’t the wider issues be discussed without using one particular person to focus in on?
    I know it’s harder work, but makes for much better reading. Sorry Bock.

    Fully agree with Macknee above too –
    “The nationally collected revenue resources should be prioritized for social needs, not propping up fucking banks.”

  21. these muppets are only in the halfpenny place when they could do things perfectly legally and get away with….enriching themselves beyond their wildest dreams.

    In the last few days I have noticed a few stories. The first one was about Peats Electronics which last week was broke, but this week has been reprieved. Why? Well the PEAT FAMILY has decided to forgoe rent on the premises to allow the company to stay solvent. Yet last week they were willing to let the family business go to the wall?

    In the pres election last year, we learnt how Sean Gallagher, our leading entrepenuuuueeer leased a building he owned to himself at an exhorbitant rent. And just today I learn that PJ Carey also rented an office building he owned from himself.

    Obviously the benefits of this are twofold. Upward only rent reviews means that on the one hand the rent would always go up, and that the company, which is limited by guarantee, would always pay until it went bust and left the small time creditors to go to hell in a handcart. And whatever happens, they still own the building if the business goes bust owing millions.

    On the other hand, rent is obviously also an expense that reduces the profits and therefore treduces taxes payable on said profit. The entreprenuuuueeeeers are quids in both ways. Hooray!!!!!

    Why fool about with banks and councils when you can fleece the Irish public legally, publicly, and without any sense of irony. And then get lauded as a go getting creator of wealth which benefits the country, and uplifts us all, and has nothing at all to do with Peats charging 30% more on electronic products than the rest of Europe………………

  22. @FF1

    Nothing petty about anyone on either forum venting their anger. Your type blame the system, however blame has to be apportioned to the fleecers as well. The system is not breaking the law, those who screw it to the wall are. As for my personal status, I have published that on the Limerick Leader as well. If you had bothered to read all the 150 fucking posts you would understand the story more, instead of the bits you wish to cherry pick.

  23. Victor. I made an earlier comment which seems to have vanished. A sense of ” Entitlement ” is my particular bugbear as i pointed out in previous comment, there must be some complication with my ip address.
    My comment regarding personal privacy was also concern that a very legitimate and valid post made here would not transcend the real points and get derailed with what is largely irrelevant…..but thats Bocks job !

  24. “The system is not breaking the law, those who screw it to the wall are”
    The system is not breaking the law? How would the system break the law, if it were to break the law? What the fuck are you on about Victor Mildew?

    Victor for Mayor. He read all 150 posts from a pack of dopes on a Limerick leader article. Victor hasn’t been on a holiday in 5 years. My heart bleeds for Victor.
    Come ere to me Victor, surely you could afford Ballybunion even, no? Kilkee even? Spanish point? Ballyheigue surely.
    We all deserve a little holiday now and then.
    Have you no means of transporation Victor. What with the fleecers robbing you of your tax money.. Could you thumb it to Ballybunion even Victor?

  25. Seems to me a lot of the comments are off-topic.

    The article is talking about the sense of entitlement that many Irish people feel. Whether it’s bankers, politicians, businessmen or single mothers who are screwing the system, they all have the same sense of entitlement in common.

  26. That’s correct. It was meant to illustrate the sense of entitlement pervading the country at every level. I’m not too happy about it becoming a surrogate for the Limerick Leader dogfight.

  27. “It was meant to illustrate the sense of entitlement pervading the country at every level”.. On that I agree Bock. (albeit I don’t agree with focusing on an ordinary family). Everyone feels a sense of entitlement to some degree.
    Why me? Why do so many others have it better than me? Then you’d think, well what am I owed? Answer is nothing. So yeah, agree with the sentiment.

  28. Correction. Focussing on someone who gave an interview to a newspaper and spoke on two radio stations. When you do that sort of thing, it tends to reduce your privacy.

  29. @FF1 – You seem to have lost your plot. Go back to the original story, read the inputs to it by decent law abiding folk and understand where they are coming from. The topic is the “Sense of Entitlement” and anyone has a right to lay out their opinion on those who wish to take all they can, by shady means and then go on 2 national radio stations and enforce that believe that they are entitled to it. Those who contribute to the welfare system via our taxes have a right to vent at those who screw it to the wall. Your rant at me is off the wall, and irrelevant.

  30. We should encourage Serinna to set up a business. That way she can get up to 15000 feasibility study money. Up to 50000 to get the business going, and she could use that money to buy a building which she then leases back to herself. She could then get herself onto entrepreuneer of the year award on RTE and get backslapped by banks and politicians, and the Irish media.

    Or she could join one of the 800 quangos in Ireland. National Womens Council might be an appropriate one, or the Irish Association for Supported Employment, (which I have never heard until today despite having a disabled adult child). There she could get the young fella shadowing Enda in the Dail and get herself a nice little earner as renumeration for serving on the board.

    Or how about Rehab. I’m sure fatty arbuckle aka Angela Kerins might share some of her 420,000 salary, or equality authority stipend, to let Serinna tell us all about how terrible disability is, and she could charge us extra for wringing her hands in despair at the poor disabled that she represents.

    Or how about becoming a GP and fleecing the taxpayer of millions in medical card fees?

    The sense of entitlement only enrages the public when a poor person decides they want a crumb off the big table. Note the outraged comments at Serinna and none at the people of multiple properties, kellys.

  31. The Kelly’s are not accessing the welfare system, and are being brought to book for their careless financial position by taking their properties off them to meet their debts. I have no pity for them, and would be equally pissed off if the taxpayer was funding them in some way, which it is not, as their properties will easily sell, being luxury properties and NAMA will recover enough to cover the debt owed, which is something they are performing quite well so far. NAMA has only had to pursue one of their 21 properties to settle the debts, not all their assets.

  32. Victor, the Kellys are getting plenty of welfare don’t worry your head about that. What with tax reliefs, section 23’s, legal tax avoidance, buy to let expenses etc.

    That pair have had more welfare than me or you will ever see.

  33. the sense of entitlement pervading the country at every level ?

    What is that supposed to mean ?

    People – all people – are entitled to as a basic birthright – or, rather, should be entitled to as a basic birthright – to the security provided by : free healthcare – free education – good housing – good safe employment – decent wages.

    However just about none of the above is available to anyone as a birthright in this country.

    The only thing people are entitled to in this country is a sense of insecurity which lasts a lifetime.

    Pervasive insecurity is a basic necessity for the “good” functioning of a capitalist society, because it compels people to work to get the money to buy the essential services they should already have as a right.

    The logic of capitalism is that it must make a profit. If people are not compelled to work, capitalism will not make a profit – it’s that simple. I don’t know enought about Marxist philosophy to reference a relevant tract but I’ve no doubt it exists.

    The only people who don’t have to work are the very wealthy. If the very wealthy have an entitlement it is to hoard vast quantities of wealth, the wealth of society, in property and banks, and to control society in their interests.

    At the other end of society are the poor and unemployed — in a capitalist society the only entitlement they have is be grudgingly given handouts by the State, to be treated with contempt or pity by their working peers, to be patronised by the Church, and charities, and over time to have their self-esteem eroded away.

  34. Without getting into the bowels of capitalism, are we not all really doing the same thing? We work for a fee, we decide to spend it or save it. If we save it and buy 20 properties, why should we then be reviled for that decision? we all spend our money on whatever we want. Football tickets, property etc etc. Some borrow to speculate in order accumulate. I have no issue with those who built property empires honestly. I do have issue with those in the inner circle of the old Anglo Bank crowd who built their own bank to speculate with, and then left us with the fall out. The gowl here was the Central Bank and the Department of Finance for turning a blind eye to Anglo, purely because some TD”s and their families / cronies / golfing buddies were up to their tits in it as well. I think in my mind these are the capitalists, and not the savers who bought and fell. Perhaps I am looking at it too simply, but If I had a large wad of money, I am sure I would do all I could with it to make more out of it, but only if it was mine to play with of course in the first place! – The Anglo Gowls played with Central Bank money, the tax payers money. Im not convinced the Kelly’s are such gowls. If they are then down they come too. I just have seen nothing yet in the media to suggest they were part of the inner circle and it’s hangers on.Correct me if I am wrong.

  35. Victor you ignore the social welfare available to the property owning class in the examples I have mentioned: the tax breaks, the Enterprise Ireland rip offs, the renting your own property from yourself, the quango boards, the free pensions for TD’s, (Joan of Bark has a DIT pension, a TD pension, and will have a minesterial pension).

    In what way is Serinna in Moyross any worse than these people?

    As for the Kellys, somehow I feel we haven’t heard the last from them. And of course I am sure they freely claim medical card, old age pension, electricity allowance, et al.

    Meanwhile back at the ranch I now have to pay a nightly respite fee if my son is lucky enough to get a bed once a month, and I have to send him in with 20quid to cover his meals, and any outings he may get taken on.

    It is beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Kellys get more in social welfare than I do, since I get nothing/nada/nil/nix. And the reason for that is that the government is currently legislating autism out of existence, so they do not have to support anyone affected by it.

  36. by the way Bock, I want to thank you for your annihilation of the arguements put forward by Tony Humphreys in his recent diatribe against autism. His views fit perfectly with the government agenda funnily enough.

    Apologies for going off topic.

  37. “Victor you ignore the social welfare available to the property owning class in the examples I have mentioned: the tax breaks, the Enterprise Ireland rip offs, the renting your own property from yourself, the quango boards, the free pensions for TD’s, (Joan of Bark has a DIT pension, a TD pension, and will have a minesterial pension).”

    I think your spreading the Social Welfare” term very broadly there. None of the above are social welfare – they are tax breaks and pension entitlements. Pensions are earned, not given freely, although you can feel that someone has not earned their pension.

    Serinna is different because she has deliberately lied to get benefits or used her children to force her issue, hence the media interest in her. Her children, from 3 different men should be supported for by their fathers, not the welfare system.

    I understand your take on the autism cuts :I have an 11 year old son with Autism /Chromosome 10 Deficiency with mid range Asperger’s topped off with Epilepsy. I have never had support for him either, but as a family, we do what we have to do. This is another reason why Serinna pisses me off, she uses her son’s condition to push her agenda. I will never pity her, she is a parasite and nothing else.

  38. Oh please. It is entirely facetious to draw parallels between the O’Kellys and Serinna Corbett. The O’Kellys have received more in monetary terms from the Irish state in the form of welfare capitalism that the Corbetts will in their lifetimes. The meme of ‘sense of entitlement’ has been well drawn out by the popular press. Extremely disappointed Bock that you descend to this lazy form of inference. I sincerely hope that Serinna completes her studies and will be in a position to become a net contributor to the state. Her children in the meantime deserve a reasonable standard of living, no matter the circumstances of their birth.

  39. Emm… Sara, her children do have a reasonable standard of living as they deserve. The same standard of living that most other people have. They are not living in a box in Calcutta down some alley. Christ above.

  40. “Emm… Sara, her children do have a reasonable standard of living as they deserve. The same standard of living that most other people have. They are not living in a box in Calcutta down some alley. Christ above.”

    That may be so. Serinna claims otherwise. In any case, I object to the premise of the article, that is, comparing her situation to that of the Kellys, and by inference, claiming that her case amounts to a ‘sense of entitlement’.

  41. Sara, most of the population live in three-bedroomed houses. When most people decide to have a larger family, they can’t just demand a bigger house. They have to find a way of paying for it or else limit their family to a size they can afford.

  42. Victor, my definition of social welfare would be anyone who gets something from the State for nothing. For the poor it comes in social welfare benefits and for the rich it comes in tax breaks. And please don’t tell me that the likes of Burton, Michael D, Mary Hanafin et al have ‘earned’ their 4 pensions each, the sytem is stacked in their favour just as Nama has been stacked in the developers favour. All welfare recipients, in one form or another. Would you call a salary of 200,000 to a developer, paid through Nama a salary or social welfare?

    Regarding autism, I am now fighting the fkers to keep the only thing I ever got which is the incapacitated child tax allowance. I never got carers, respite grant, I paid for all his therapies myself, and to add insult to injury I went to an open day in Trinity on Monday (they run courses for disabled people), and tuition fees are not covered by dept of education so I will have to pay for him to go if I can get him to go. But my other son got student grant and tuition fees no problem, as a non disabled person. And yes, student grants and tuition fees I consider social welfare.

    It is easy to turn on the Sireenas of this world. I cannot comment on her circumstances, but any houses I have seen from Moyross and South Park look like they are not fit for pigs. Of course I am only getting the stereotypical photos and maybe the place is nice, but I would not put my shirt on it. And of course the Kellys are getting all their social welfare benefits on top of their earned incomes, so they are grabbing much more than Sireena, albeit it they are not as stupid as this lady evidently is, making a show of herself and her family. But nevertheless she is typical of a tiny minority on social welfare so I would like more ire directed at the outragous behaviour of the kellys who take entitlement to a new level.

    And don’t get me started on all these directors of disability groups on their six figure salaries…………

  43. The Leader seems to have taken down the story! What big balls they have! It attracted more comments than any other story I can remember on their website. maybe it’s because Madam Serenna spoke to the Limerick RADIO today!!

  44. A mother asked the council for abigger house for the good of her kids and that is screwing the system to the wall? Millionaire builder developers have tax avoidance experts to get away with as much as they can, that is screwing the system. When people like Denis OBrien dont get their way they hire legal teams to screw the system. People like Serina have no say on the rules of the system. The same system that hands Bertie the scumbag Ahearn 150k a year and i’ll bet he feels no shame putting his greedy little hand out for it either. If the system allows her a bigger house fair play to her, she wont get it if she dont ask.

  45. I said asked yet you changed it to demands. Can you do that. Does it suit your argument better if she demands.

  46. This thread could run for years if people continually make comparisons and references.
    The Kelly’s appeared to have thought they could live in a house they were not paying for. Serenna Corbett wants a bigger house that she cannot or will not pay for, whatever the circumstances of either party, this Country is in the toilet and cannot sustain such ” Entitlement ” for either party.

  47. Why do people always go back to the bankers/politicians? Yes they were corrupt and grossly negligent and a number of them should be jailed. There are enough posts from Bock regarding this that you can post in and no one will disagree with you.

    Yes the Kellys should be turfed out of their house for not paying for it. Go post in that thread.

    This article is about Serinna Corbett who wants a bigger house for her family of 5. Stay on the topic.

    Someone mentioned about the state of the houses in Moyross. Does anyone wonder why council houses tend to be generally in a poor condition? It’s like me, when I don’t have to pay for something I am careless with it. I would never drive my own car the same way I drive a rental, it’s just human nature. However, complaining about the broken heating when you go on summer holidays to Sapin, fuck off and fix your own heating.

    What’s the saying? If you’re left wing when you’re young you’re intelligent, if you’re left wing when you’re old you’re an idiot….

  48. Tim this article is about entitlement. If you read the article it is evenly split between the Kellys and Sireena. I am interested in the fact that people choose to focus on the council tenant instead of the millionaire in analysing the feeling of entitlement that permeates Irish society.

    your comments regarding people in council houses shows a common ignorance and stereotype about council tenants. Do you really believe that people who rent take less pride in their home than owner occupiers? What a strange assumption. And you would not drive a rental car less carefully than your owned car simply because of the penalties that would apply if you damaged it. You have obviously never hired a car if you can make such an analogy.

    Do you think the Kellys have a sense of entitlement. And do you think they are entitled to have that sense of entitlement just because they are very rich?

    I think this is a really interesting topic as it explore the dark recesses of our cultural baggage and it certainly is responsible for a lot of our ills.

    Your last paragraph is a case in point. You cannot even allow someone else to have a different opinion than you without insulting them. What entitles you to rude to people you would never dare to speak to in the same way face to face?

  49. Shellshock. ” I think this is a really interesting topic, as it explores the dark recesses of our cultural baggage and it is certainly responsible for a lot of our ills ” I am silently cheering you on that sentiment and could’nt agree more as it explains a mind set so entrenched and embedded in Irish society.

    It is blatantly obvious that the sense of entitlement we are discussing runs through every facet of society here, from the Church, Politics, Media, Education, the whole kit n caboodle. It is illustrated and shoved in our faces daily in one example or another but all stems from the same arrogant and illogical source.

    We rail and rant about the Banks as a faceless entity but any constructive or collective movement in opposition is sadly lacking. We then becopme very selective in our choice of championing some ill percieved support of the underdog, relating only on some subjective level and avoiding the application of hard facts which we conviently choose to ignore.

    My own particular ” rant of the day ” today would be the outrageous and disingenuous statement made by ” The Church ” , that under no circumstances will the sacrament of the confessional be breached, even in the case of child abuse and nothing Minister Shatter might do will change that. I won’t venture any further off topic now but it all stems from the same sick source….Entitlement.

  50. At David 014
    She asked the council for a bigger house and was told no, she then went on radio twice and the local paper to complain
    She wanted to force the issue using press and public opinion, that sounds like demanding not asking
    Society isnt about giving into the demands of the people that shout loudest, its about looking after the basic needs of the weakest and most vulnerable
    Foreign holidays are not a basic need, far worse off out there

  51. Tim — This is not just about Serinna Corbett. It’s about a sense of entitlement, whether revealed by a council tenant, a millionaire landlord, a bank, a politician, a bishop or anyone else. It’s not as narrow as the Leader’s report. I don’t want this to descend into a parochial bitch-fest.

  52. Bock and Co, leaving Serinna aside for the moment where do the Kelly’s perpetuate their”sense of entitlement” ? They have not asked for anything other than to be treated fairly. If a team of young men came and threw my elderly parents out of their home, actually dragging them out, regardless of what they owed, they would be on feeding tubes in the Regional. They invested in property, they fucked it up, now the bank is taking it back – it could have done so in a more humane way, instead of late evening time. Yes the Kelly’s are a couple of posh old gits, but they stole nothing, and they did not dip into any of your pockets, so a little bit of common sense here before the fucking lynch mob gets it’s ropes out.

    On the other side, Serinna is a fucking parasite, has been dipping the public purse all her fucking life, and will continue to do so till the day she fucking dies. When she dies her feral off spring will continue the family tradition unless the whole system is fucking changed and these fuckers are sorted. They are 3rd generation leeches, poorly educated and have absolutely fuck all going for them. Having kids to get more welfare is all they can manage.

    Yes the Kelly’s were greedy fuckers to buy 21 houses, but the mechanism was there to do that. You all seem to have gladly fucking missed the point that for 23 years they sold Irish made products in Germany. I am sure many a job was kept here from their sales. They used their profits to invest in property here, being advised by so called banking experts and trusted them. They are not Anglo board of directors, they are not the Seanies, Mickies or Paddy the fuckin Plasterer types. They were ordinary business people who invested their profits as advised by their bank. Unlike Serinna, they worked fuckin hard, and promoted Irish products abroad, what the fuck has Serinna ever done only fuckin ride and dip!

    Some of you would want to give up following the socialist party cause it is seriously dimming your sense of right and wrong.

  53. Victor — I explained in great detail in the previous post on the Kellys why I think they have a distorted sense of entitlement. Have a look there if you want an answer.

    On another note, can I check something with you. Are you saying that my sense of right and wrong is somehow dimmed?

  54. No, I am saying some folk have a dimmed sense of right and wrong. They rant on here on what they think is right. Let’s test an exercise here. I am a debt collector and I go to any of the posters parents home, and drag their 70 year old parents down the driveway because of their debts, will they stand idly by and let me do so? Too right they won’t. I would get my arse kicked. The method in which they were removed is wrong, they are elderly folk at the end of it regardless of their financial mess. We all would defend our homes, be they rented or mortgaged. This baying here that they were rightly fucked out of their home is just wrong. It is socialist crap, and lacks any sense of human decency.

  55. Bock I read your post several times before I wrote my post in regards to their sense of entitlement. I don’t think that is what they were doing. They were 70 year old people standing their ground. Pride rather than sense of entitlement I think,.In their eyes they worked hard for what they had, they personally did not crash the banking sector, they were as much victims of it as anyone else. They did not make their money from selling drugs or committing crime. They made stupid investment decisions in relation to the profits of their company, a company that traded in Germany, one of the toughest economies in existence, promoting and selling Irish manufactured goods. Germany does not tolerate shady business companies, everything is by the book, unlike here.

  56. A dogwhistle article is posted implying a “the sense of entitlement pervading the country at every level” – whatever the fuck that is ?

    But of course it’s really only a prejudiced attack on “scumbags”, “chavs”, “the poor”, “the unemployed”, “the underclass”, “the lower orders”, “the perennial outsider”, a withhunt – a cynical diversion from the real issues.

    The lynch mob smell blood, and with slavering jaws, grunting, low foreheads, knuckles scraping the ground, they comes loping for their daily diet of self-righteous indignation, bigotry, raw meat, and guts.

  57. Asta Kelly is a woman of working age, not elderly.

    They had two years notice of the eviction following a court decision, and they were hardly dragged out, aqlthough they certainly made a meal of it.

    Brendan Kelly compared himself to a Famine evictee, which in itself is a clear sign of distorted values and entitlement on a staggering scale.

    Their default will cost you and me far more than a house for Serinna Corbett, because, whether we like it or not, we’re paying the costs of the banking collapse. Meanwhile they own significant assets both in Ireland and abroad.

  58. Bock the debt related to just ONE of their properties and it has been repossessed. My issue is with how they were removed, and their comparison to the “evictiees” was not far off – sheriff’s with baying dogs. There was a time when those in their 60’s and 70’s were shown some respect.As I said above, swap the situation for your own parents, regardless of their financial mess, and tell me honestly would you let me man handle them down the yard? No Bock, you wouldn’t, and neither would I.

    Serinna Corbett is in her bed, because that is how she has chosen to live her life – a life which taxpayers are clearly saying they will no longer pay for.

  59. Neither the Kellys nor Serinna Corbett have committed any crimes. That’s not the point.

    And Asta Kelly is not 70. She’s 63.

  60. Shellshock and Bock, I thought the Kellys had been dealt with adequately in the other article and it’s comments section, that’s all. Sorry for the misinterpretation. However most people seemed happy to give the Kellys a kicking, but the same people are unwilling to say a bad word about Serinna. Everytime someone tries to tackle the abuse of the social welfare system, they get shouted down by the “what about the bankers” brigade. It’s getting annoying.

    Shellshock, you can’t tell me that you truthfully beleive that the majority of people who get their house for free take the same pride in it as the majority of people who spend their entire lives paying for their house. If so, then you are a tad naive. On that point, I drive a rental about 51 out of 52 weeks a year, sorry to burst your bubble on that one. Ever hear of comprehensive insurance?

    Lastly, I wasn’t insulting anyone, it’s a common German phrase which I translated. It accurately describes my transformation from being a socialist when I was in my early 20s to where I am now.

  61. @ Macknee, I dont think the article is one sided – if the Kelly’s were crooks, bleeders of the system, then they deserve to be stripped of their assets. Because of their age, they have an old school view of their debt situation. I would not view them as parasites, they contributed with taxes and job creation, just invested their money wrong, and are paying the price. I just feel that sending in a mob like crew backed up with gardai for a couple of old folk is just wrong. Some of these debt collectors and enforcers are convicted criminals FFS.

  62. Victor Mildew, think about what you’ve written.
    It’s teeming with hypocrisy.

    “Yes the Kelly’s are a couple of posh old gits, but they stole nothing, and they did not dip into any of your pockets, so a little bit of common sense here before the fucking lynch mob gets it’s ropes out”

    Yet you go on to call Sirenna “a fucking parasite” in the next paragraph!

    “Yes the Kelly’s were greedy fuckers to buy 21 houses, but the mechanism was there to do that” Oh right, but the mechanism was there to do that. Like the social welfare system, no?

    “No, I am saying some folk have a dimmed sense of right and wrong. They rant on here on what they think is right”. That would be your Mr. Mildew.

    Bock, I think he’s gone a bit too personal with that girl. It’s not right.

  63. @FF1. Would you ever go take a jump. I am not being personal in either case. The references made about both are in the media arena for all to read, I did not make them up, nor am I am alone in the thinking in regards to either of them. Your a defender of the wasters, great, but that does not give you a right to insult and bark at those who will stand up against that socialist defence. Wasters, nationwide contribute nothing, never have and never will to the public purse, but will take all they can while slumming through life.

    The Kelly’s never cost us a dime, had a debt and now it’s rectified.They lost the house that raised the debt and I have no issue with that.

  64. @FF1 The banking mechanism was there for people to use, some took risks, some won some lost.To access it, they needed their own money to start with, or assets on which to borrow on.
    The Welfare System is not a mechanism for anyone to ride. It is a system to assist those who need help – and it’s paid for by taxes. The problem is that welfare system has grown into some sort of free for all for those who have spent 40 years on their arse, breeding more to do the same, decade after decade,.

  65. Victor, would you mind toning down the personal nature of your comments and stick to the issues? I wanted this post to be about a wider point, not a parochial Limerick spat.

    The Kellys’ debt is not settled unless the house can be sold for the €2 million owed. Their plan was to keep living in it, thereby imposing a loss on IBRC and consequently on the rest of us.

    I don’t think Asta Kelly would like being called old folk. Why do you keep insisting that a woman of working age is elderly?

    I don’t know what an old-school view of the debt system is. Brendan Kelly is a qualified accountant who knows far more about such matters than you or I do, so don’t give him a fool’s pardon. He’s a razor-sharp money man.

  66. I am sticking to the issues, balanced on both sides, nothing of a personal nature evident. Yet I can be personally abused by FF1 without issue, hardly fair is it. 60 to 70 is in my book elderly /she is 2 years off her retirement age.And where the fuck have I got parochial about it?

    FFI, on looking back at his / her posts, are just attack shyte each time.
    And Serinna was called a lot worse than what I have called her, back a few days ago, and its still above for all to see – I dont see FF1 banging their feckin drum on that one: see post Rownan on April 24th above:

    FF1 cannot engage with the topic so the only thing for that poster to do is try and shut it down by posting a complaint and crying fowl.

  67. Victor — I’ve already said that the topic is entitlement in general, not Serinna Corbett in particular. I hope everyone is prepared to accept that. I also hope everyone is prepared to accept that they don’t run this website.

  68. Bock you run an excellent website. The people here including myself are engaging with the topics and have strong or weak opinions on all things Ireland now.All have offered some take on it without attacking and insulting each other with the exception of FF1.

  69. I’m hoping that people will listen to what I said and calm down a bit. If not, I’ll have to start moderating comments on this thread and I don’t like doing that.

  70. By the way, here are some vulnerable elderly people.

    Mr T
    Liam Neeson
    Dan Akroyd
    Stewart Copeland
    David Hasselhoff
    Robin Williams
    Jeff Goldblum
    Stephen Seagal
    Hulk Hogan
    Steve Tyler
    Malcolm Young
    Enda Kenny
    Hillary Clinton
    Mick Jagger
    Bertie Ahern

  71. How do we deal with this so called “entitlement” problem?

    When an unemployed couple renting in a private estate have a better quality of life than the working couple next door paying a mortgage.

    Where is the “entitlement” ?

    Unfortunately this is what Ireland has become for the average working class family.

    It boils my blood to see whats deducted from my wage packet every month and then see these parasites be they bankers, developers or social welfare fraudsters walking around without a care in the world.

  72. Hi Victor, are you ok?
    Forgive me Victor. You don’t deserve any abuse at all. You pay your taxes and you’ve not had a holiday in a while.
    I’m verrrry sorry Victor. Feel better. x

  73. k, Sorry Bock. Just kidding.

    Can I say, if you wanted the issue to be a wider one, as mentioned, I don’t think there was a need to use this girl’s situation then.
    You get the likes of Victor in on his high horse, going on about the girl and her personal situation. I don’t care who’s fathered her kids, how many holidays she’s gone on.. I don’t feel it’s right prying into her life and you must have known you’d get that using her to make your point.
    By the way I also think your comments on that Limerick Leader thread were not very nice. I’m disappointed in you Bock.

  74. I’m devastated that you’re disappointed in me.

    That girl would never have featured in these pages if she hadn’t gone to the papers and the radio. It was her own decision to attract publicity. I see her latest thing is a €2,000 claim against the council for a new floor, painting the house and new clothes.

    Serinna confirms that the family are going on holiday to Spain this year, even though their only income is Social Welfare. Are sun holidays also a basic human right?

  75. FF1 seems to think we all set about a public hanging and exposure on the Limerick girl when in fact she exposed herself, and the rest of the country pounced. I see the LL has published an updated story, confirming the allegations we have been debating. She will also appear on Tubridy Tonight this week so we will get to see the proud sponger in public.

  76. “Are sun holidays also a basic human right?”

    Alright, alright. They’re not.
    I just don’t like focusing in on someone too much.

    Victor, shouldn’t you be working!
    I’m sorry if the truth annoys you Victor but you did seem a little hypocritical and unbehaved at times. It’s very unbecoming really for a man of your standing.

  77. as regards entitlement, it is hard to tell people at the bottom they can have nothing when they see the people at the top creaming off the system, not doing a thing to earn it, and then telling everyone else to bog off.

    The shitstem is far too clever for you Vic, and for me for that matter. I choose to work despite being a single parent as a result of my ex deciding a disabled child was not for him. I worked part time and claimed FIS, as I could not work full time at the time. Now my son is more manageable so I work full time. In all fairness I feel 100% better off than those who stay at home doing nothing, and living in a kip like Moyross. I wanted my children to see that if you want things you have to work for them, but my determination is sorely tested, not by Sireena, the likes of whom will always be with us, but with the people at the top who very cleverley encourage us to think like VIC and devour each other.

    And Vic for the last time, the Kelly have two state pensions, medical cards, free travel, free electricity blah blah blah. Mortgage tax relief, section 23 tax relief, and whatever your having yourself relief. And if you take my wider concept of what constitutes social welfare, which I view as getting something off the State for nothing, them we are all social welfare recipiants. Anyone who has claimed a tax rebate, tax free allowance, claims child benefit etc. all are welfare claimants.

    Here’s an anecdote that makes my blood boil. During the Lisbon treaty campaign, some muppett called Jim O Hara kept popping up on the radio urging a yes vote, despite the fact that his company Intel was shedding jobs in Ireland. Now the bould Jim is on the board of AIB as his reward for selling us down the river. (do we own that one?). That sort of cronyism and gombeenism drives me more bonkers than the Sireenas of this world, who lets face is never going to go beyond the boundaries of Moyross and Santa Ponsa. Pity her her pathetic little life, her and her kids are going nowhere. And the price of her docility is her social welfare which ,by the way, the State do not pay out of generousity, but a means of keeping the no hopers from revolting and killing us all in our beds. Let’s face it no one wants to be Sireena, so why all the hate?

    And here’s a little bit of info to send VIC’s blood pressure through the roof. I just found out, one of the thugs who manhandled Kelly off his property is a council tenant who drives a merc. (an old one), I kid you not. And just like you Vic he thinks people on social welfare are scum. Whilst you and Tim probably consider him scum, and whilst everyone squabbles among themselves who is the bigger scumbag, those at the top quietly and ruthlessly loot the State, which all our taxes are going to pay for.

    Off topic, but can anyone explain to me how the government can smash and grab my private pension even though it is currently worthless, but it is a constitutional issue to take a pension off Bertie Ahern? Why do they keep getting away with this bullshit?

  78. A couple of isses here.

    First, Asta Kelly is only 63. Not an OAP.

    Second, this post is about people who have an unwarranted sense of entitlement, whatever their financial circumstances, not an attack on all social welfare recipients.

    A tax rebate is not siocial welfare. It’s money you were overcharged. The tax free allowance is part of the system for calculating tax due. Not social welfare.

    I’d say Serinna is happy being Serinna.

    And by the way, Moyross is not all a kip. I have friends and relations living there. They don’t all think like Serinna, any more than local authority tenants in the rest of the country do.

    How many people grew up in 3-bedroomed houses? I’d guess the majority. Where does it stop? If you have ten kids should you get a 10-bedroom house?

  79. Never ever, did i say someone on social welfare is scum. Read back over any post i made on either forum. What pisses me off is those on social welfare, who are having a better life than those who work, and pay the taxes that fund their lives. I have an autistic son myself, a beautiful little man, and have never ever used him to get us anything. his mum and I bust our backs,to ensure we cover everything, as some of his meds are imported from Canada and not on DPS, but that’s life. My blood boiled over when this person used her sons situation to push her own agenda. I dont care what is said, she is having a 5th child to force the councils hand for a bigger house, and not for some loving motherly reason. She put the warts of her own life out there, no one else did that, and she did it to set a “poor me” floor show that spectacularly fucked up. My last comment on this topic, is anyone working has a right to be pissed off with those who shaft the social welfare system, and are quiet happy to state that, with a “fuck the lot a ye” attitude, I ‘ll take what I want, and that is a “sense of entitlement”

  80. Shellshock, I don’t know how you can work out what people think. If you could share that secret, we’ll all be rich.

  81. sorry I’m on a roll now, I should be working, that’s the curse of tinternet. How and where did the huge feeling of entitlement emerge in our society. My own parents worked their entire lives. My father is in very bad health after a lifetime working outdoors as a painter. Likewise mother bad arthritis after a lifetime scrubbing floors. The paid tax their entire working lives, and expected their children to do the same. They never got a thing from the State. Even when my sister almost lived in Crumlin hospital due to severe asthma did they ever get a free doctor visit or medicine.

    Now, I am not telling you this to show you how great they were/are, but in all my life I was told, you want something you work. So where have all the parasites come from? Could it be the church who educated most of them, and told them us plebs were there for the taking? Was it the counter revolutionary bourgeoisie who Dermot Ferritor showed in his history of Ireland, determined that the poor would literally be exterminated? Is it because so much of Irelands laws are either unknown, ambiguous, and out of reach of most of financially?

    One thing that strikes me about the clientelism of the political system is that in my experience it is impossible to get a service out this State. Whether it is from the local council, the HSE, the education dept etc etc. I had to go to court to get a school place for my child, even though I was legally obliged to send him. I was ‘entitled’ to send my child to school, yet was denied it at every turn by the same State who could, at the same time prosecute me if I did not send him.

    Now the same State has invented a condition called acute autism, and is denying any State help to people with autism, despite their legal ‘entitlement’ to such support. Is they why people get so het up about thier ‘entitlements’? Because despite the State saying yes, you are entitled, if your face does not fit, you are the wrong class, or are not strong enough to fight, they will fuck you up, before you will get anything.

    And they will keep taking those taxes out of your paypacket every week, whilst awarding themselves and their buddies monies that the majority of us on here can only dream about. Is this why people get so precious about their entitlements? And lets face it, why wouldn’t they when they see the ruling class waltz off with every entitlement under the sun when most cannot even get a basic service that common decency would dictate should be provided.

    The sense of entitlement is everywhere. Fat fuckers not working for less than 500,000 is far more egregioius than a dodgy social welfare claimant. Or ex and current politicians flogging off State assets to their mates, assets that we have all paid our taxes for, this is far more damaging to the State than Sireena, and her fairly fertile womb. In this sense why would Sireena have less a feeling of entitlement than Bertie? She is certainly less damaging to the State than he was.

  82. It’s not a relative thing. Fat fuckers shouldn’t get paid and neither should small people unless they have a valid case.

  83. You’re not. It’s Akismet. Stop being so touchy. Jesus Christ I’m up to my neck in primadonnas today.

  84. “primadonnas”.. do you hear that Victor!
    Sorry Bock. Just kidding :)

    Shellshock, I think you’ve made some excellent points.
    It’s people like you that really are inspiring.

  85. well you’d be a prima donna if the VAT was just crying out to be done since it two months overdue, but you just have to share your pearls of wisdom with the world, and are then stunned into silence at the idea that your genius might not see the light of day.

    Shoulda just done the VAT……….. which I am doing now…………………..

    thanks FF1, I doubt my steam of consciousness would have been so extensive, if I was watching EE :-) That would go: Entitlement blah blah, oh look Phil is being a prick again, resulting in short posts kind of thing.

  86. @shellshock
    “whilst everyone squabbles among themselves who is the bigger scumbag, those at the top quietly and ruthlessly loot the State, which all our taxes are going to pay for.”

    Great posts Shellshock, and the above statement is very pertinent.

    This posted article, and it’s associated comments, for the most part, seem to me to be encouraging this useless squabbling, rather than clarifying matters for the readership, and the wider public.

    When I say clarifying matters I mean politically educating, and enlightening the public so that they optain a deep insight into the workings of politics and the media, and are therefore empowered to actively participate in politics, instead of just passively voting for this or that cynical and corrupt politician at election time.

    But quite to the contrary this post and comments instead seem to deliberately encourage a dog eat dog mentality.
    Where is the sense in that ? Is there an agenda at work ? Because that plays right into the hands of the powerful!

    Also I believe that internet forums or blogs such as these should be used to show up corruption, and incompetence in the powerful only.

    I strongly object to forums or blogs such as this providing a platform to attack the weak in society – and attacking them in the most crude and debased manner possible.

    Saying that the victim is asking for it, because she approached the national media first, is no excuse.

    You either scrabble in the dirt with the corrupt, bought and paid for, national media hacks, or you rise above them, and show them that there are more democratic, and civilized ways of commenting on, analysing current affairs, and in holding the powerful to account.

    As far as the public eviction of the Killiney couple is concerned, I believe that that was uncivilized and regressive.

    And I’m inclined to view that there is an agenda to gradually normalise the debasement of civilized values at the present time, in line with the severe difficulties being experienced by the capitalist system.

  87. You’re obviously new here. Inform yourself by reading all the other posts before making such weighty pronouncements.

  88. Bock, I have read many other posts on your website, and they are excellent.

    This particular page, however, in my opinion, is another matter.

  89. If Sireena decides to have 10 children, the conundrum for society is should she be rewarded for it?

    In the wider culture, people are rewarded for having children all the time. We do it through the taxation system, the social welfare, health, education et al. No matter how hard any of us work, we all need the system to benefit us,we could not possibly rear our kids paying for school, child care, health etc without State support. And even though we know, the tax we pay every year, could not pay in total for each of our children individually, we agree collectively to do it as a society for the common good.

    Hence people with no children subsidise those that do. We subsidise children to go to private schools by allowing their parents the tax breaks to afford it. And kindly providing the teachers to the school ‘for free’. This is all ‘social welfare’. Albeit at the other end of the social scale, a bit like the Kellys. The question of where we draw the line depends on our moral values.

    So it depends how much we value Sireena to give her a 10 bed house, even if she costs more or less financially in the end, vis a vis corrupt, and in cases jailed, politicians, who have already cost and will continue to cost much much more, financially and morally as a society.

    And even if there are many more Sireena’s the cost should not be measured in how much she costs us, but how much her kids will cost us, if we don’t at least treat them as humans. The children deserve that even if their parents don’t.

  90. Extend the question. If I live in a mortgaged home and decide to have ten children, should the council step in to house me and my family?

  91. I think you’re trying to bait me now, Bock.

    I’ve indicated that I don’t consider a person’s private affairs to be a suitable topic of discussion in a public internet forum – certainly not this one anyway where the topic clearly excites base emotions.

    Is there a public interest in this discussion ?

    The test I would apply is : What have I learned from this discussion to take away.

    That small-mindedness is alive and kicking in Irish society – how sad !

  92. I’m not trying to bait you. It’s a genuine question. Is there any limit to the size of house that should be provided?

  93. No. If Farmleigh is considered appropriate for two people, then let Sireena move in with them and then she’ll cost the State nothing extra.

    Michael D. could give her one of his pensions, and everyone is quids in.

  94. I think if you have an endless line of support via the welfare system, you don’t take into consideration how many children you should have. If however you are not a recipient of the welfare system, and have a capped income, then you know what you can afford and how many children you have based on your income. I know I cant afford more than the 2 I have, even though I would love to have more.

  95. Mac Knee, this lady has brought this all on herself, she thought that by doing a Joe Duffy on it, she would win public favour. Now that has gone spectacularly tits up, and gladly so. I am engaged and want to start a family, but we have chosen to defer untill we can properly provide for them. We are both working. So enough of the Serinnas and their likes and sense of entitlement, which was the original point of this article.

  96. @Ronwan
    I wish you the very best for your marriage, Ronwan.

    I’m not all that au fait with the controversy surrounding the Limerick lass.

    I’ve looked at the debates on some internet forums, and they really don’t make for pleasant reading – a lot of very abusive commentary.

    One wonders where to find an impartial assessment of her plight ?

    There appears to have been a lot of strong feeling generated in reaction to her story.

    But I’m pretty sure that she doesn’t really deserve this hostility.

    Why should one poor woman be subjected to such abuse ?

    It makes no sense to me.

    The fact that she is fighting hard for herself and her family to achieve her entitlements, even through the media, shows a woman with spunk, and I think she deserves to be admired for that.

  97. I’m wondering if the areas of ‘entitlement’ and ‘dependency’ are starting to starting to blur with each other. It’s worthy of a larger discussion but if you look at it from the top down the constant message is that Ireland, and the Irish, are dependent on others for their well-being. We see this at political level, and the focus on the EU, FDI etc etc, and it’s contantly the headline message.

    Has this ‘we’re dependent on others’ mantra in some way transformed into ‘we’re entitled to…’?

    There are chinks of light though, starting to see lots of local initiatives where hopefully some of that old Irish spirit of doing it for ourselves looks like it’s starting to return.

  98. Hang on a second, what makes her entitled to this? The fact that she can have a lot of children? Cows can have a lot of calves!

    People should realise that the top 20% earners in Ireland pay 60% of tax receipts. I’m not talking about politicians or political insiders. I’m talking about the people who worked their ass off in college, worked 70/80 hr weeks through their 20s and 30s to get where they are. What makes Sirenna, who appears to have never done a thing in her life apart from spread her legs entitled to a bigger house than most working families in Ireland live in?

  99. Round up all the people who have gotten so worked up. They’ll be easy to find :

    They’ll all be hunched over keyboards, with grim expressions, under black clouds emitting thunder and lightening.

    Take them to Limerick University where the scientists and doctors can get to work on them, with calipers, hammers, screwdrivers, drills, and magnifying glasses, to figure out what is really bothering them.

    Because one thing is for sure : Their many-faceted sense of injustice has nothing what so ever to do with this poor woman and her family.

    She is simply being used by the grim keyboard brigade as a handy lightening rod for their pent up frustrations and troubles.

    When troubled people focus thier confused anger on one hapless individual in this manner – What they are really demonstrating is a lack of leadership.

    What is required is a charismatic leader who can redirect and focus that pent-up frustration in a positive constructive direction.

    A Martin Luther King, or a Mandela, or a Ghandi type figure is what is required.

    And as James Young used to say, in an unrelated context : ‘Will yiz stop fighting’.

  100. I agree Mr. MacKnee.

    “What makes Sirenna, who appears to have never done a thing in her life apart from spread her legs ”

    Why don’t yous just call her a slut, a raging whore and a nymphomaniac
    and be done with it. Go on, just let it out, you’ll feel better.
    Some disgusting cretins on here I have to say.

  101. @Tim your vile comments diminish you. You show yourself to have far less class than the Sireenas of this world.

    It is a pity this thread cannot rise above knuckle dragging territory. It is a really relevent and interesting topic to our society today. Which is mirrored in the UK with their current housing policy of moving poor people out of London. The hatred for the poor/underclass whatever you want to call them is flourishing just as the rulers want it to so that we don’t see the looting, lying and cheating they engage in daily. This media campaign which started in 2008, demonising the poor and public sector workers has been very successful. Pity people are so stupid as to swallow what their betters tell them.

    As long as Sean Fitzpatrick can take extended holidays in Marbella, and sojourn to the K club, it is completely unrealistic to expect others to take responsibility for their own lives.

  102. Shellshock, maybe you’re right. And maybe she does have more class than me. For me, being classy was never important to be honest.

    Equality in society is important. I truly beleive that. But where does this stop? Is everyone “entitled” to what everyone else has? Is somebody who never works entitled to the same things as someone who works 7 days a week. Or as Bock has asked many times, if I have 10 children am I entitled to a house with 10 bedrooms?

    And why does it always come back to the Seanie Fitzpatricks?

  103. Sorry Shellshock, I just read your last paragraph now:
    “As long as Sean Fitzpatrick can take extended holidays in Marbella, and sojourn to the K club, it is completely unrealistic to expect others to take responsibility for their own lives.”

    Is that a joke or do you beleive that?

  104. @Tim Its common sense. its the age old thing isn’t it. Do as I say, not as I do. Every parent knows that does not work with children. And it certainly not good leadership to say ok someone who does not pay a tv licence, or parking fine will with certainty end up in jail if they don’t pay. But destroying an entire countrys economy earns no more than social opprobrium. But his wife keeps the multi million pension and property he signed over to her.

    That is why it comes back to him. As to where equality stops. You should be worrying about where equality starts before we get to where it stops. My son is being viciously attacked as a disabled person in this society. His life is being destroyed and his future written off because of the actions of this government in trying to shield the shakers and movers from the consequences of their greed. Sireena is not doing that to my son. The so called respectable classes who sneer at Sireena are doing that, with your collusion Tim.

    Frankly I don’t give a damn about the Sireenas of this world. As I stated earlier, she is far less toxic and damaging than the people who are reaching into our paypackets, and as far as I am concerned, robbing me. My pension is being robbed and looted to pay for a ‘jobs initiative’. Do you remember that lie?

    But you choose to get your knickers in a twist by the actions of Sireena who, whether you choose to believe it or not, constitute a tiny minority of social welfare recipients, and is not a threat to me or you. You ignore the wrongdoing of the strong, preferring to attack the weak. Not only is that not classy, it is cowardly too.

  105. I am not concerned about the Kelly’s age, profession, address or house value. Such tasty morsels are easily subject to unjust discrimination.However, I am astounded and deeply concerned that:
    1. The police service, our guardians of the peace whom we have authorized to address matters of criminal law, was made available to assist private businesses [the banks, the bailiff, the sheriff] with matters of civil law. Since when did we permit police to work for [large] private businesses? This is a matter of grave concern.
    2. The Kellys were forcibly removed from their lawful family home for a civil matter. Apart from the unlawful assaults that took place on the Kellys bodies, the family home is protected under our constitution and can only be entered by the police in pursuit of criminal matters. The bank etc had a fully lawful alternative to seize other property to settle any alleged debt, i.e. one or more of the Kelly’s other 18 properties. Should not the bank etc be required to respect our law and constitution? This is matter of very grave concern.
    So, in short, our government allows private businesses to use our police to assist them in the pursuit of their own private business, even if it means disregarding our laws! Oh dear! Surely change is long overdue …

  106. The police were not involved in the eviction and did not assist the bailiffs.

    After the repossession order was issued by a court, the house was no longer the family home. If we could rely on that defence, none of us need bother paying our mortgages.

    If you have specific references to the legislation ad constitutional provisions you refer to, it would be very helpful if you could provide a link.

  107. Do you think it’s unreasonable to expect people to take responsibility for their own lives because Seanie Fitzpatrick is a c**t?

  108. you’re like a puppet Tim, they feed you these stories, and on cue you splutter and rage accordingly. No wonder it is so easy to keep the people in this country in servility.

    You are doing a great job for your masters Tim. Keep tugging that forelock boy, and shitting on those beneath. Because if there is no one beneath you Tim, you are at the bottom. But these stories feed your belief that you are somehow a cut above. Its frankly risible.

  109. Is it a conspiracy then? Did this guy go to the Examiner with a ludicrous tale, so that Tim would become a puppet of Seanie Fitz?

  110. Well, as I understand it, Bock, the average size of families in today’s Ireland is small, so a family of 15 kids is very much the exception.

    Therefore it wont do much damage to the housing budget to provide good adequade housing for all such large families.

    And they should be made to feel that they are valued also.

    The more kids this country has the better hope it has for the future.

  111. @mcknee the irony that no so long ago women were forced into having that many children by the State is lost on these people. No one worried then about the size of families, or their houses, and whether the State was obligated to support them. Indeed the State religion specifically outlaws the use of contraception, and as recent events show will force a woman to carry a dead/half dead baby to term should she suffer that misfortune. But let’s invoke personal responsibility when it suits, and ignore the social controls put over peoples lives when it suits the arguement.

    But no they focus on one tiny percentage of the entire population and want to hang their shit on them. They are far closer to the Sireenas of this world than the Seanies, (Tim, I mean Sireena and Seanie to be signifiers for the groups they represent), but these faux outrageous stories allow people to believe they are miles above this ‘scum’ when in fact they are probably only a couple of paychecks away. It would take them longer to rise into the ranks of the rich, than it would take to descend to the depths of poverty that’s for sure.

    And isn’t it so Irish that people are perplexed and outraged at the idea of someone getting a bigger house in a country currently awash with empty houses. We have so many empty houses that they are knocking them down. But somehow Sireena with her 4 kids is the epitome of the evil empire.

    Like I said, these ‘debates’ are simply risible.

  112. I answered you yesterday, you ignored the answer to ask the same question again only increasing the number of children. Perhaps she should go off and live in a shoe?

  113. Well you see, I’m trying to find out where the limit is. A person working to pay a mortgage doesn’t have the option of receiving a larger house should they choose to have a big family. Instead, they have to plan their family size according to how many children they can afford to feed, shelter and educate.

  114. e outcome for the slum dwellers is worse than for the people treated like humans. And it isyes and you imply that someone who does not buy their own home should have no say on what type or quality or size of accomodation they should be allowed to have. I get it, I disagree. Unless you forcibly vasectomise/sterilise people whose lifestyle you disapprove of, you have the choice to put them in those slums such as those in Limerick, or accomodate them in reasonable conditions. As I said above, it depends on where your moral compass points.

    These debates about the feckless poor are centuries old. The only thing that has not changed is the hatred and contempt directed at them. Plus ca change and all that.

  115. My moral compass is fine thanks. You seem to be saying there’s no limit to the size of house a person should be provided with, if they choose not to limit their family size. Maybe I’m misunderstanding you there.

    Could we extend this principle throughout society? If people who are not council tenants decide to have more children than they can afford to house, should the local authority step in and rehome them in suitably spacious accommodation?

    And by the way, since you know absolutely nothing about my background, I’d appreciate it if you would not make assumptions about it. I’d also thank you not to tell me what I believe. I’ll further thank you not to make up things I didn’t say.

    It’s basic courtesy in a debate.

  116. Shellshock, I’m vile, I’m a puppet, I have no class, I’ve never driven a rental car, I’m a forelock tugger etc. according to you. If your best method of debate is mud slinging then I’m done with this.

    I would like you to clarify wether or not you were joking when you said “As long as Sean Fitzpatrick can take extended holidays in Marbella, and sojourn to the K club, it is completely unrealistic to expect others to take responsibility for their own lives.”

    I think you weren’t, and if that’s you attitude in life then you shouldn’t be lecturing me or anyone else on leadership because you obviously have none.

  117. I think it’s Shelshock who is doing the baiting now and yer worse to feed into it. Bottom line is no one, who is not self sufficient is entitled to a free ride through life on the backs of others who are willing to get off their arse and work for the future of their families. There are jobs out there, the recruitment websites are full of them, the problem is that certain social welfare dependents are poorly educated therefore unemployable, and they are un-willing to lift a finger to change that, when they can freeload.

  118. “There are jobs out there, the recruitment websites are full of them”
    Are you having a laugh Victor Mildew?

    Why in the name of god is there so much emigration then?
    People wanting to do a bit of traveling I suppose you’ll say.. a la Noonan’s sentiment.

    So all the umemployed in this country, 14.5 percent last time I checked, just don’t want to work is it Victor?

    Sorry now if my questions are “getting on your tits”.. toughen up is my advice on that one.

    You are the one who needs to go educate himself I’m afraid.

  119. you are not debating. you are trolling. you keep posting the one line question over and over. Its the Lisbon strategy.

  120. @FFI, as my answer is being moderated due to weblinks included, i will make it easier for you. Check any recruitment page of any of your favourite recruitment website, then come back and tell me there are no jobs.I could direct you to over 15000 sitting on 4 recruitment databases tonight alone. There is no work for those skilled in areas connected to the construction /banking/legal or property industry, and those are the ones who are leaving, plus those who have always worked in the manual Labour areas. Do a little bit of research before you come on again for your next snigger installment. Jesus your like a 13 yr old cyber bully. Grow up FFS, and if you cant contribute without sniggering at someone else s posts, head on over to BEBO or where ever it is you normally hang out.

  121. Why are new graduates leaving then too?

    You’re living in la-la land.
    The land of plentiful jobs if only people were educated enough.
    Go way out of it.

    I did a quick google there.. here you go.

    “Latest CSO figures indicate that 62,400 graduates are unemployed; an average of 110 Irish nationals are emigrating every day; and a report by the National Economic and Social Council predicts that there may be no net increase in jobs here until 2013.”


    There’s plenty of people willing to ” get off their arse and work for the future of their families” as you put it, but can’t find work.

    You have very little empathy for people who find themselves in that predicament it seems.

  122. I have no empathy for those who are 3nd generation scroungers, they were also unemployed during the boom times, due to incapacity to drag their arse out of their beds in the morning. The CSO will also tell you that the unemployment figures in areas such as Moyross has not changed much since the late 90’s

  123. Now as much as I would like to stay for a while, I have a 12 hour night shift ahead of me, and each night until Tuesday morning.Catch you all again at some stage next week.

  124. Vincent if there were suitable jobs for our high skilled graduates, they wouldn’t be emigrating. Simple as that. Sorry now.

    With the high levels of employment we have at the moment, they can’t all be “umemployable”.

  125. Tim,
    “People should realise that the top 20% earners in Ireland pay 60% of tax receipts.”
    What proportion of there earnings is payed in tax?
    Please quote some meaningful statistics.

  126. For grammar lovers, sorry for spelling the word “their” as “there”. (Is context not enough?)

  127. Victor — Your comments are not being moderated due to weblinks. They’re being moderated because you refuse to abide by the site policy concerning respect for other posters.

    Shellshock — Don’t even think of telling me how to run this site. I’ll decide what cpnstitutes trolling on this website, not you. Most of the comments you have ever made here have been trolling and I’m now heartily sick of your bullshit.

    I won’t bother going over your earlier comments. Instead I’ll just take the last one.

    ” outcome for the slum dwellers is worse than for the people treated like humans.”

    Serinna is not living in a slum. She has already confirmed she likes her house but wants a bigger one. I know Moyross well. I have friends and relations living there, so I’m familiar with the houses. Are you? Have you ever been to Moyross, or are you speaking from your secure remote Dublin tower?

    “you imply that someone who does not buy their own home should have no say on what type or quality or size of accomodation they should be allowed to have”

    No I don’t. I say that we all have to accept the consequences of our own decisions.

    “Unless you forcibly vasectomise/sterilise people whose lifestyle you disapprove of, you have the choice to put them in those slums such as those in Limerick, or accomodate them in reasonable conditions. ”

    That’s dishonest on many levels and it shows you up for the troll that you are, but I’ll analyse it anyway.

    I don’t disapprove of anyone’s lifestyle. You invented that to underline your dishonest point. Serinna can live any way she likes as far as I”m concerned. Point out where I said I disapproved of her lifestyle.

    Your introduction of forced sterilisation is a disgrace and an attemot to introduce an accusation of Fascism by the back door. Do you think people are stupid and can’t see through your ridiculous word games? I never suggested that anyone should be forced to limit the size of their family. Point out where I said that or withdraw the statement. Only an idiot could take that from what I wrote. Are you an idiot? I don’t think so. I think you’re just fundamentally dishonest.

    Serinna likes her house. It isn’t a slum. Produce the information that shows her house is a slum or withdraw that statement. It’s your choice.

    “These debates about the feckless poor are centuries old. ”

    Point out where I said anything about poor people. Point out exactly where I said anything about poor people or else retract that remark as well. I want you to quote me word for word instead of making something up.

    By your tone, it seems to me you have not the slightest notion what it means to be poor. As I already said, you know absolutely nothing about my background or those of most commenters here, but your patronising views of those you call the poor have a whiff of one who enjoys the luxury of well-heeled detachment.

    I am tired of smug, insulated, uninvolved people pontificating on something they know nothing about. So far I’ve been standing back from this discussion but after your last intervention I’ve had enough. No more distortions and misrepresentations from you or anyone else commenting on this topic. I’m tired of your hypocrisy.

  128. I have visited this site for several years now, never before have i seen a topic get so derailed by the numerous vehicles that are being accessed for expression.

    Shellshock. I was moved by one of the statements you made re; Entitlement and its impact on Society, however after that you just lost me with your persistent focus on a ” Have’s / Have nots ” basis of debate.

    FFI . You seem to be targeting VM consistently, deliberatly and you are becoming very frugal with what might be described as your wry sense of humour.

    Surely the two examples here of ” Entitlement ” given at extreme ends of net worth or an income scale ably demonstrate a mind set but in themselves are largely irrelevant ?
    The conclusion that i draw from the debate is that it is only wise to examine which vehicle we choose to vent our vitriol or passion or anger or fraustration.

    Both Victor Meldrew and Shellshock have stated that they have children with difficult conditions, there is little else to test the human condition and capacity than that. I too have a little person in my life with a life long illness, every time something new or the fight to deal with the ineptitude of the Health system compromises her in any degree, it rips my heart right out of my chest, i have been only too willing to shift my focus to some grossly unreasonable decision meted out by a careless inept body of one kind or another, to spring into action like some demented lioness to protect my loved ones but to be truly effective and never miss what is at the core of all of this i have found it to be only workable to constantly review that ” vehicle ” because sometimes its all too tempting to get stuck in the one with no engine.

    To truly examine this sense of ” Entitlement ” it is only possible, i believe to do so by removing any emotive context connected to either example.

  129. Apologies for crossing over on Bocks response @ 152, my computer is experiencing early death throes.

  130. Norma, I’m not targeting anyone in particular at all. It was another poster who mentioned the girl only being good at spreading her legs that I didn’t like either.
    If you don’t agree with anything I said, fire away and say so, otherwise I’d appreciate it if you didn’t get involved to chastise me, thanks. I don’t get involved in your disagreements on here if you’ve noticed.
    I thought some of the comments about the girl have been a bit nasty, that’s all.
    I also don’t think there’s a multitude of jobs available in this country either and it’s not only people in the “construction /banking/legal or property industry” who are emigrating.

    In saying that, I don’t really believe we should cater to peoples’ preferences for bigger/better housing. Maybe the girl was naive in seeking publicity for her case.. but I just don’t think some of her personal details are relevant. I don’t know about you, but it irks me too how some people harp on about working hard like they deserve a medal for it. I work hard myself.. but who the fuck cares? I’m conscientious for it’s own reward. I also believe in helping others who need help, but people should be encouraged to help themselves too as much as possible.

    I definitely think there is a false and unwarranted sense of entitlement across all sectors of society these days. Maybe that’s partly due to the fact that we’ve never really known true hardship, like some from the generation before us.
    We’ve never known what it’s like to go hungry, to have to work from a young age, to have holes in your shoes -if you had shoes.. to have to wipe your arse with newspaper if you were lucky. But back then people ‘knew their place’ too, and it was only the upper echelons who had opportunities.. I mean you’d have families hoping to have one get into the priesthood, not for the love of all things heavenly or anything but for the chance of an education and bring some sense respectability to a family, such was the sense of shame of being poor…

  131. Good Morning! A quick note of the jobs comment:

    Yes graduates are emigrating, for several reasons:
    There are no jobs for the qualification they now hold, perhaps undertook 4 years ago when things were not as bad as they are today:
    64000 estimated to go -out of a population of over 5 million, not exactly mass emigration.
    If I was in my early twenties with my degree or masters in my hand, I would be going too, to work in fine weather, less doom and gloom and less crime hopefully in wherever I would land
    And yes some are off to see the world, as I did in 1992

    For graduates, in the sciences, food, technology or chemical arenas, thousands of jobs out there – see monster, recruit Ireland and irishjobs.ie
    For the lesser skilled and community based arenas, check http://www.activelink.ie or http://www.jobs.ie,several thousand there as well.
    Indeed several IT companies recently announced at the jobs fair that they simply cannot fill the posts they have, due to lack of suitably skilled people and will look outside the state.
    If there were no jobs here for those on SW, the Polish, Latvian and Lithuanian nationals would have left long ago. They have not, because they are prepared to wok the jobs that our trackky bottomed troops won’t. The Nigerians, Thai’s etc etc are also able to eek out a reasonable living here without needing SW.
    I have worked right through the recession,have had to change job twice, but did so without needing the scratcher. Look I understand there will always be an element who want to work as little as possible, or not at all, but if that is their decision, why in the hell should the rest of us be expected to carry them? If there are 8 euro per hour jobs in a locality of high unemployment, the long term unemployed should be made take those jobs – that is of course if they do not have criminal records as long as their legs, because no employer will touch them, and you can’t blame them. I also thing this Fás lark has to go. It does not provide realistic training in any area, and it’s function is to massage figures, because if the unemployed are directed towards 12 month placements, they are not on the dole figures.
    Right I am off to bed – feckin hate nigtshifts!!!

  132. Tim said,
    “People should realise that the top 20% earners in Ireland pay 60% of tax receipts. I’m not talking about politicians or political insiders. I’m talking about the people who worked their ass off in college, worked 70/80 hr weeks through their 20s and 30s to get where they are.”

    Lots of people work their ass off, including minimum wage toilet cleaners, labourers and factory workers. By the way, for most people (especially those of the lower class), life expectancy is lower than that for the top earners. A significant factor in a person’s health status is social status. This is true, even after controlling for lifestyle factors such as diet, alcohol consumption etc.

    I ask you again Tim, please quote some meaningful statistics if you want to be logical.
    What percentage of the earnings of the top earners are paid in tax?
    If it is the same as for everyone else, I might start to agree with you.

  133. As a matter of interest, do you have any idea how much tax as a proportion of income is paid by Denis O Brien, Dermot Desmond, JP McManus and Michael Smurfit?

    I don’t have the figures. Just asking.

  134. I could go on with the list. My point is about the relative burden carried by each citizen as opposed to the absolute sum paid.

  135. I found this –


    Seems to be a bit cumbersome to find figures on revenue.ie
    Anyways interesting link..

    “There were 214 Irish taxpayers with incomes in excess of €500,000 in 2007 and they paid an effective tax rate of 20.8% on this income. The Revenue Commissioners collected €34.15 million as a consequence.
    The type of reliefs that these individuals traditionally availed of include reliefs applying to artists and patent income.”

    Looks to me that middle income earners are paying the majority of tax in this country..in 2007anyways..

    Anyone got the time to find a break down of the 2011 figures?

    As said above “top 20% earners in Ireland pay 60% of tax receipts” is too general. The top 20% covers too wide of a spectrum of earners.

    Percentages can be very misleading..

  136. I agree FF1 but I was just trying to illustrate that the more “well off” are not milking the system which seems to be a common (and incorrect) perception in my opinion.

  137. Thanks for the digging FF1. “There were 214 Irish taxpayers with incomes in excess of €500,000 in 2007 and they paid an effective tax rate of 20.8% on this income. The Revenue Commissioners collected €34.15 million as a consequence”.
    This means that 214 taxpayers earned 164 million between them, so the mean earnings were 767000 each.
    How does the 11+ billion come into this?

  138. No probs Brino..
    RE: “How does the 11+ billion come into this?”

    11+ billion figure : Total income tax take approx..
    He seems to be referring to diffferent years in that link though..2006/07 (12.47 billion 2006)

    “Income tax accounted for 27% of the overall taxation revenue of the Irish Government in 2006. Curiously, the projected yield from income tax this year, €12.47 billion, is slightly ahead of the 2006 return”

    “There were 214 Irish taxpayers with incomes in excess of €500,000 in 2007 and they paid an effective tax rate of 20.8% on this income. The Revenue Commissioners collected €34.15 million as a consequence. ”
    (34.15 million collected – 2007)

    Anyways, it’s marginal.

  139. FF1: You said that the effective tax rate for the top 214 earners was 20.8% in 2007. Any idea of the effective rate for say the top 50 earners?

  140. That effective rate is for earners in *excess* of 500K Brino.. so the top 50 earners it seems would fail into that category.
    It’s not broken down though. The top 50 might be paying much less.

    There’s an awful lot of high earners –
    “I classify 88,214 persons (less than 4% of all taxpayers) who earned €100,000, or more, in this category. An elite cohort of 8,905 earned more than €275,000. But some of these earned significantly more as the average earnings of this subset were €665,678.”

    There’s a table also showing 25 people with an income of 2 Million+ .
    Would be an interesting list, to see who’s on it as well as who’s not.

    Here’s the official latest revenue.ie break down figures I could find –

  141. Yep these people make me sick. I’m 47, been working in low paid jobs all my life, have no children yet effectively homeless for the last 10 years so had to do 24/7 live in care just to keep a roof over my head for the last decade. Cannot afford to even rent a room on a 40 hour week…..councils tell me over 20 years minimum (if I live that long) to get an affordable home which would only be the Council as I am in no minority group and have no children.. and here I am supporting these sorts of people. IT MAKES ME SICK AND ANGRY!!!

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