Israel, Gaza and the Big Lie

 Posted by on July 29, 2014  Add comments
Jul 292014
 

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.

—- Josef Goebbels

 

As I write this, US Secretary of State John Kerry is telling the world with a straight face that Israel is under siege from Hamas, thus proving that the technique of the Big Lie is not dead.

The Big Lie went to work with the Gulf of Tonkin incident, when the US public were told North Vietnamese forces had attacked a US warship, and as a result, the USA ended up in a full-blown Vietnam War.  What a great success that was.

The Big Lie  went to work when Dick Cheney in his public speeches tirelessly associated Saddam Hussein with the attacks on the World Trade Center, even though Hussein was an implacable enemy of Al Qaeda.  The invaders, absurdly named the Coalition of the Willing, smashed Iraq and ended up with a country full of Islamists where none had existed before.  What a great success that was (provided you happen to be Cheney’s company, Hallliburton).  The invasion achieved nothing apart from destabilising an entire region, yet to this day 40% of Americans believe Saddam had something to do with 9-11.  What a success that was.

The Big Lie went to work when Hitler told the German people that Jews were responsible for their country’s woes.  The German people believed it, as did the many other people in Europe who wished to demonise the Jews — Hungarians, Austrians, French, Polish, Italian, Romanian — and as a consequence, six million human beings went to their deaths at the hands of Nazi murderers and their accomplices.   What a gigantic success that was.

The Big Lie went to work when Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines mobilised the Hutus of Rwanda to murder their Tutsi friends and neighbours with knives and clubs, killing up to a million people in 100 days.  Another great success.

You see, the Big Lie is a thing that finally consumes those who utter it.  It’s the ultimate curse, the darkest summoning up of the worst demons that lurk on the seabed of the soul and, once summoned, these presences are not easily banished to the depths when their work is done.

On my television right now, I can see  the Israelis bombing what they call “terror sites”.  Before that, they were searching for “terror tunnels”.

What next — terror olive groves?

Who could forget George W Bush’s ludicrous War on Terror?  As if the world was full of Marvel and DC baddies — one-dimensional characters devoted to Terror, just like the Joker, the Penguin and Lex Luthor.  Is it a coincidence that generations of simplistic American comics and movies should finally have manifested themselves in the form of a president whose grasp of international nuances extended no further than the pages of a comic-book?  And how ironic that Bush himself had an evil Grand Vizier in the shape of Cheney looking over his shoulder and pulling his strings where necessary.

Who could forget Robert Fisk’s pitiful lament, Terrorists, terrorists, terrorists?  In Pity the Nation,  his account of the Lebanon conflict, Fisk wearily repeats the words.  Terrorists.   Terrorists.   Terrorists.  Every time the Israeli airforce bombed an apartment block in Sidon or Tyre or Beirut, killing dozens of civilians, the attack was immediately followed by a spokesman explaining that the building was used by terrorists.

When Fisk’s own car was strafed as he and fellow journalists drove up the coastal highway, Israeli media reported it as an engagement with a vehicle containing terrorists.

Terrorists.   Terrorists.   Terrorists.

For Fisk, it was as much a comment on the paranoid mental prison in which the Israelis  find themselves as anything else.

Even moderate Ireland becomes demonised in this paranoid and dishonest rant from the wife of the Israeli ambassador, Nurit Tinari Modai, an outburst filled with half-truths and contempt for her husband’s host country.

nurit tinari modai.

 

When you live in a society where paranoia becomes internalised, any level of  atrocity seems acceptable, provided you first dehumanise those you wish to be rid of.  This is a lesson we learned over the centuries, most recently in the Balkans when the Chetniks attempted to wipe out the Bosniaks and those who thought of themselves as Yugoslavs.  We in Ireland are not immune to that sort of thinking, as we saw with the treatment of the inmates in the Magdalene laundries, though I do believe our society has been permanently scarred by our Famine.   I doubt if we would deliberately inflict such suffering on a population, in the way that Israel has brought about the Gaza ghetto, which many of them sneeringly refer to as Gazastan.

Let’s not forget that when Hamas first emerged, Israel saw it as a means to destabilise Arafat’s PLO, which was a secular, non-sectarian organisation, whose aim was to achieve a Palestinian homeland.  And lets not forget either where these Palestinians in Gaza came from.  These are the people who were thrown off their land by invading Israeli forces from 1948 onwards, and who were shoved into the ghetto, because it wasn’t politically possible to simply kill them and be done with the problem.

Hamas is Israel’s friend in every way.  Supported by Mossad, it did everything its puppet-masters required, including firing militarily-insignificant rockets into Israeli territory, and Israeli-occupied Palestinian lands.

In doing so, Hamas helps to perpetuate the Big Lie that Palestinians are part of the comic-book terrorist narrative.  How much easier it is to condemn an Islamist movement than a bunch of agnostics, atheists, Christians and Muslims who simply want to be given back some of the land that was stolen from them by force.

That’s why Arafat and the PLO had to be crushed and that’s why they had to be replaced by cartoon villains like Hamas.

In parallel, the hugely-diverse world of Islam had to be reduced to a cartoon quality.  It was necessary, especially in the minds of the American public (never noted for its political subtlety) to portray all Muslims as crazed, ideological killers.  Never mind  the fact that Islam is as diverse as Christianity, with devout believers and carousing drunken bons viveurs in its ranks, just as there are many non-observant Jews.

In a world whose sensibilities have been well prepared by incidents ranging from the 9-11 attacks to the ludicrous Jyllands-Posten controversy about depictions of the Prophet, we are now arrived at a point where people will believe anything about the enemy as long as that enemy is either  terrorist, whatever that is, or Muslim, whatever that is.

Back in the 1940s, the US public was just as easily persuaded to incarcerate its Japanese-American population in concentration camps, based solely on their facial appearance.  No German-Americans were shoved into places like Manzanar.  No Italian-Americans.  No Hungarian-Americans.  Just Japanese-Americans.

Who did they put in charge of the D-Day landings?  A man called Eisenhauer, with the spelling slightly anglicised.  No prison camp for him.

That’s how easy it is.

And so we arrive at our current pass, where the children cowering within Gaza are jeered at by thugs on the hills of Sderot, the same thugs who squat in the houses of the people they now bomb with their American-funded missiles and F-16s.

Just a few miles up the coast from Gaza, the people of Ashkelon will sleep more easily in their beds after the current onslaught completes its mission.   Unlike in Gaza, no naval patrol boats machine-gun their fishermen when they try to cast their nets.  Nobody shells their beaches.   These law-abiding Israeli citizens enjoy all the amenities of the beautiful Mediterranean port that their forces rolled into on the 5th November 1948, expelling all 11,000 Arabs.

What does that remind you of?

Terrorists.  Terrorists.   Terrorists.

___________

 

 

 

 

  117 Responses to “Israel, Gaza and the Big Lie”

Comments (117)
  1.  

    Thank you, Bock.
    May I pass it on ?

  2.  

    I am reading this in Chicago Bock. The ignorance of people here regarding Palestine is truly frightening. Keep up the good work.

  3.  

    Bock, I’ve been a fan for years, I cannot agree with your posting about Israel, which is typical of unconsidered, supposedly left-wing Irish & British responses to Israel. Watch out for that creeping infection, anti-semitism. The Israeli government has ignored the movement for a Palestinian homeland–a two-state solution–with reprehensible disregard. But is this conflict really about conflict between (potential) nation states, or is it a global battle with ancient roots? Easy enough to follow ancient precedents like the Annals of Inisfallen, which recorded in 1079 that “Five Jews came from over sea with gifts to Toirdelbach and they were sent back again over sea”. Tesco was selling the Protocols of Zion in Ireland only a few years ago. Last week, supporters of Hamas demonstrating in France and elsewhere were chanting, “Gas the Jews.” What would Mr Bloom say?

  4.  

    John Kerry is the vice president ?

  5.  

    Sorry. My slip.

  6.  

    Lisa, are you saying I’m anti-semitic?

  7.  

    The World just needs to stop now, just stop and consider the obscenity that the history books will contain long after we are gone, they will ask how this could happen in 2014.
    The myriad of opinions the Ceasefire brokers, Agenda brokers, Ideology brokers, none of it matters in light of the suffering, the World protests , why are all the voices shouting into an abyss ?
    Is Israel the most powerful Nation on the planet ? So many crimes perpetrated , I for one can no longer even process what is happening in Gaza.

    The intellectual arguments and political wrangling is lost to me in the turmoil of human devastation. A small segment of news this morning of a man who had lost 13 members of his direct family overnight, are we even comprehending these events.

    My own direct family, as in kids, their partners/husbands/ wives/ grandchildren are 20 in number, how would I function today if 13 of them had been massacred overnight ? how can we even process that ?

    Sanctions against Russia ? yet….U.S. announced yesterday an increase of over 2 billion to Israel yesterday ! reward them for the slaughter ? I’m almost ashamed to be human at this time.

  8.  

    Agree with everything except am confused about your take on Hamas. Who’s fighting against the Israelis on the ground? I think Hamas is as a result of Israeli policy rather than a creation of Israel. To accept that is to underestimate the refugee tradition and culture of the Palestinians. On a practical level how would one resist the Israelis who have a clear and unambiguous goal of ethnic cleansing.

  9.  

    Israel were only too pleased to nurture Hamas as an alternative / opposing group to PLO / Fatah, as with the nurturing of Saddam Hussein in Iraq by the U.S. until their expectations were not realised and both continued with their own agenda’s contra to that expectation.

    I fail to understand what you mean by ” refugee tradition and culture of the Palestinians ” because there is no such thing, unless you might be confusing them with the Bedouin of Israel, which is an entirely separate culture.

  10.  

    What I mean about refugee culture is that most Palestinians alive today were born as refugees, to parents who were refugees.

  11.  

    The Bedouin are not refugees. Most Palestinians alive today were born as refugees to parents who were refugees. As a result their political and social culture has been profoundly affected by that experience.

  12.  

    The Bedouin are about to become refugees as Israel demolishes their villages.

  13.  

    hey Bock, help me out here – when/where was this a reality?

    “As I write this, US mediator John Kerry is telling the world with a straight face that Israel is under siege from Hamas, thus proving that the technique of the Big Lie is not dead.”

    Thanks!

  14.  

    You can read about it here in the Tower, a pro-Israel magazine.

    By the way, I don’t propose to defend every sentence I write this way. Just so you won’t waste your time trying it again.

  15.  

    Toff’s neutral stance mask definitely slipping now! Obviously a pretense.

  16.  

    How old are you Toff? Just wondering. I was chatting to my sixteen year old who seems to have a fairly decent grasp as to what’s actually happening in Gaza.

    If you’re on twitter there’s a sixteen year old girl called Farah Baker you might like to follow. In fact you don’t even have to be on twitter, you can read her tweets and they might inform you and give you some insight. She’s an amazing kid.

  17.  

    just on the lying thing, naturally NETANYAHU gets the pork pie award –
    “Hamas is firing 25,000 rockets on our cities”
    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday-chris-wallace/2014/07/27/rep-scalise-talks-gop-agenda-border-crisis-benjamin-netanyahu-and-hanan-ashrawi-conflict#p//v/3699667878001

  18.  

    There is a demonstration outside Dept of Foreign affairs tomorrow 6pm.
    http://www.ipsc.ie/event/dublin-not-in-our-name-solidarity-with-gaza-naming-the-dead-stop-the-killing-in-gaza-gai
    I hope its OK to post this.

  19.  

    A Little Cynical you asked how old toff was.I reckon he/she is at least 10 years old,or maybe not.

  20.  

    Toff has posted under a couple of names. I’d ask him to please choose one.

  21.  

    A video, specially for you Toffy.

  22.  

    Bock, would you or anyone know why one can’t use the word Zionist in comments on some online news sites?

  23.  

    Stumbled on this blog. http://irishingaza.wordpress.com/.

  24.  

    Well folks, I’m going to ignore all of the patronising and paranoid crap I’ve seen from most on this blog, including the ultimate blogger put-down about posting under different names – Bock I’ve posted under one name only, I thought that’s why we quoted our email addresses? Don’t answer, I don’t want to know!

    My final re-iteration of my basic point (made over the last several days) is that BOTH sides in this conflict are committing the ultimate denial of human rights – KILLING. There is NO justification for killing from any side.

    Instead of all of you armchair experts spouting all this partisan rubbish, understand that both sides must accept the other’s right to exist, firstly at the negotiating table, before real progress is made.

    IF a resolution is ever found to the issue, how it will be achieved will prove me right.

  25.  

    Toff — I don’t care if you want to know or not. You’re getting an answer anyway. You posted under at least one other name which, out of courtesy, I’m not repeating, since it’s your real name.

    So far, your contributions have consisted of repeating the same line over and over, accompanied by words like bullshit, crap and rubbish. Not the most compelling argument ever.

    Some people may well use armchairs. Perhaps you even have one yourself, but I won’t accuse you of spouting from it. I’ll just point out that in such a one-sided slaughter, it’s not only a good thing to be partisan, as you put it. Taking sides is an obligation. Do you also believe UNRWA are spouting partisan rubbish?

  26.  

    Bock, your implication in accusing me of using multiple user names was that I was being less than honest – at least that’s how I and others who read your post took it.

    I have used my real name in error (surely not trying to hide myself) not many times, quite a while ago, and not on this subject.

    Your powers of innuendo are often seen on this blog and seldom challenged, but in this case I’m calling you out on it.

    Now you’ll accuse me of telling you what you are thinking, or some other such attempt at deflection.

    I still havn’t seen one convincing point to counter my position on the current bloodbath in the Middle East.

    CUE more slagging and deflection!

  27.  

    Toff, if you think you’ll reduce this to a slagging match, think again. You’ve made the same point over and over. Do you have something new to add?

  28.  

    Toff, you really should stop being such a tiresome twat with all this ‘look at me, I’m right aren’t I.’

    No, you’re not. Go and educate yourself.

  29.  

    ALC, I agree. Annoying and distracting background noise, (from a closet Zionist)

  30.  

    :)

  31.  

    Hamas are terrorists. They are putting innocent civilians in the firing line, deliberately, trying to gain sympathy and support from nations to justify their cause, not the palastinians cause. I’m with Israel 100 per cent on this. .

  32.  

    Good girl Snead. You keep those evil Palestinians in their place.

  33.  

    Yeah, Sinead is right Bock, all those innocent babies and children who were slaughtered in schools and hospitals were asking for it and just looking to garner sympathy from ‘nations’.

    Seriously though I often find it hard to believe that there are people in the world as ignorant and dull-witted as Sinead. Maybe she’s taking the piss.

  34.  

    Gaza-Israel death toll since 8th July.

    1363 Palestinians
    58 Israelis.

  35.  

    Isn’t it strange Sinead, that these ‘terrorists’ were nurtured by the Israeli Government in the early 2000s in an attempt to undermine Fatah and Yassar Arrafat.

    You are very naive my friend.

  36.  

    Sinead, do you ever wonder about the fact that Israel nurtured these Hamas ‘terrorists’ in the early 2000s with the expressed aim of undermining Fatah and Yassar Arafat.

    You seem like a rather naive person.

  37.  

    Arafat was all set to sign away most of the Palestinian homeland as part of a deal. Israel, of course , reversed out once it became apparent that they would have to give back something. Israel will never give Palestinians a state or allow them to return to their stolen homes and lands in spite of UN resolutions. Israel, the U.S. bulldog in the Middle east, does not respect the UN and neither does U.S. The dispossession of the Palestinian people, the ongoing collective punishment and siege of Gaza, the ongoing harassment and intimidation of Palestinians in the West bank, the ongoing expansion of illegal settlements int the occupied territories, and the current slaughter, all condemned by the U.N. , will not stop as long as the U.S. backs Israel, the most ethical ethnic cleansing war criminals in the world.

  38.  

    Hi Sinead. You are behind Israel, I’ll just update you. Today they’re carpet bombing another suburb, Rafah.
    https://twitter.com/DrBasselAbuward/status/495197473787228162/photo/1
    Your army has also ordered evacuation of Al-Shifa Hospital, where these injured kids are taken, threatening to bomb it.
    Dr.Bassel Abuwarda ?@DrBasselAbuward
    45minutes ago
    “All the advanced surgical departments building have been evacuated after Israeli threats to bomb it. THIS might be my LAST TWEET pray for us”
    Well done Sinead, you apologist for slaughter of innocents, keep up the good work you and the rest of your internet Zionist Troll friends.

  39.  

    Also Tommy,

    “Israel declared a three kilometre buffer zone inside Gaza’s borders last week, an area that represents 44 percent of Gaza’s territory. Anyone within the zone has been warned by the Israeli military to leave or risk being bombed.” – Aljazeera

    Gaza has shrunk overnight. Soon there will be literally nowhere for Palestinians to go. This is nothing short of ethnic cleansing, slaughter of innocents and mass genocide. ANYONE who is an apologist for this atrocity should hang their head in shame.

  40.  

    As I said, I’m behind Israel 100 per cent. Hamas don’t want a cease fire and they don’t care whether babies, children, women are killed.

    Isn’t it interesting that they continually break cease fires in areas crowded and packed with women and children? They are packing innocent civilians into areas they know will be shelled and these people believe any kinda of dribble that Hamas spute. The Palastinian people in general are living on another planet at the moment. Hamas don’t care about their own people, they are hiding behind those slaughtered Any country would retaliate and Israel are right to protect their own. Look at Syria and Libya. Nations jumped in in favour of militant groups. Libya is twice as bad as it ever was now, no rule at all with over double the amount of their own people being slaughtered now by those who fought to overthrow Gadaffi. Militants in Syria packed their own people into area (mainly women and children) and slaughtered them under the guise that Assads troups used chemical weapons. If Hamas get away with what they are doing now, the innocent Palastinian people who are none the wiser, will be in a worse situation than they every were

  41.  

    Straight out of the Hasbara Handbook, Sinead.

  42.  

    Sinead, you’re pure dense and you’re also an apologist for mass genocide. That’s all.

  43.  

    ‘Straight out of the Hasbara Handbook, Sinead.’

    Free brochure. The large print giveth and the small print taketh away.

    Take Tom Waits’ advice Sinead – don’t get caught with your drawers down’.

  44.  

    Here Sinéad –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-vlQEVOXjw

    You are also spouting Israeli propaganda.

  45.  

    It looks like Toff retired and they sent in the “heavy artillery” Sinead. Is your name really Sinead or Yohannan? Interesting that U.S. suceeded in getting rid of the chemical weapons. Naturally it woud be disasterous if those weapons got intothe wrong hands. Israel has few friends. No Iron Dome for saren gas rockets. Saaren gas heavier that air. Just a hunch. U.S. interest in humanity impresses me sometimes.

  46.  

    I think you are being a little cynical ‘A Little Cynical’ ”

    Sinead, you’re pure dense and you’re also an apologist for mass genocide. That’s all.”

    I blame Hamas for mass genocide, full stop.!!! I work with someone whose family are in Gaza, all told to congregate in a certain areas, not to move from there, not think about moving anywhere else, by Hamas, and boom! most Palastinians know that Hamas opened fire in the first instance, they are breaking the cease fire and they don’t care who gets caught in their wake.

  47.  

    Tommy the US didn’t succeed in getting rid of chemical weapons… they got rid of some of Assad’s chemical weapons, not the various terrorist millitant groups chemical weapons operating and still operating in Syria…the terrorist chemical weapons that killed hundred of their own people

  48.  

    Well done, Sinead You got the word terrorist into one sentence twice, but you forgot to say Iran-backed Hamas.

    Jesus, I’d make a better Israeli propagandist than you.

  49.  

    Tommy, I think you’ll find that ‘Sinead’ (Zionist android, genocide apologist and Toff’s replacement) with just keep spouting out the bollocks she’s been indoctrinated with and won’t actually engage with you.

  50.  

    The Times of Israel published a piece, since removed, called “When Genocide is Permissible”.

    It concluded with the following paragraph.

    We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?

    There you have it, folks. In a nutshell.

  51.  

    I’ll try. Sinead, do you think the siege has helped Hamas to inc increase its popularity in Gaza?

  52.  

    Sinead you haven t displayed one ounce of empathy for the people who are being terrorised and killed , you re just spouting about blame and rationalisation. Even if your argument is true about Hamas needing atrocities to muster support from Arab neighbours, and to a certain degree you are correct, can you please tell me what you think might cause a people to sacrifice their women and children in order to seek help?

  53.  

    “If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide is it then permissible ”

    Shocking stuff. A lunatic state if ever there was one.

  54.  

    Tommy I have the upmost empathy for the people of Gaza and those in the firing line. With Hamas it’s all about control…

    [IDF-speak alert]

    They broke the cease fire yesterday deliberately. They told their people to go out,do their shopping, fishing, socialising…. put them again the line of fire again. Hamas are responsible for genocide and the people of Gaza know no better. They are oblivious to what is really going on.

    I’m not an Israeli fan by any means, tosspots most of them, but in this instance they have no choice. Now Hamas are breaking into different factions and the fight for control will be more apparent over the next while. I was right about Libya, Syria and I will be right about Hamas and Gaza. Hundreds have been killed in Libya in recent days. Once Gadaffi was outed, it was all about control.

  55.  

    Sinead, If it were possible to remove all Historical, Political, Emotive, Humanitarian, Security driven objectives from this argument and I appreciate that is quite a stretch then can you explain to me at all how it is even possible that a Military force as powerful and highly equipped as the IDF have to obliterate an area of 38 miles long and 6.8 miles wide, populated by 1.8 men, women and children ?

    Surely with the extremely advanced Intelligence of the might of the IDF they could have come up with a more sophisticated plan to achieve their objective ? That is what is so blindingly horrific about this onslaught. This is not a ” conventional War ” it is not even a War in any sense. The IDF with every advanced Military technique at their fingertips have proceeded on a bloodthirsty rampage where now their pronounced objectives are completely lost in the blood of innocent children.

    I fail to see how any person with a heartbeat for humanity will ever be able to forgive this but unfortunately it looks like Israel cares little for what the World thinks, I cannot imagine a worse fate than having such a mind set of hatred for an entire people as is displayed now on the people of Gaza who are living in a carpet bombed open air prison but whatever way this ends, those supporting this bloodbath perpetrated by lies and hatred are well and truly imprisoned in their own minds and for that there is no release.

  56.  

    Dash, pause there a minute, Everyone please hold off. I want an answer to this.

    Sinead, what is your evidence that Hamas broke the ceasefire?

  57.  

    Dash, I think you’re wasting your time trying to reason with Sinead. She is clearly so indoctrinated and brainwashed that her mind is impenetrable.

    A couple of quotes from Sinead:

    “They are packing innocent civilians into areas they know will be shelled and these people believe any kinda of dribble that Hamas spute.”

    So hospitals and schools are fair game. Where are doctors supposed to take those children they are operating on – all the children with horrific injuries?

    “Hamas are terrorists. They are putting innocent civilians in the firing line, deliberately,”

    This is an outrageous accusation.

    “Palastinian people in general are living on another planet at the moment”

    People in general. Another disgusting dehumanising accusation levelled at Palestinians.

    This sort of dehumanisation of any ethnic group, declaring that they don’t care about their people, their children especially, scares me. There is absolutely no evidence to support these sorts of accusations and they should not go unchecked.

    Making sweeping statements about ANY group or class of human being in order to dehumanise them is dangerous in the extreme.

  58.  

    Folks, please hold off a minute. I want an answer from Sinead before we go any further.

  59.  

    Bock it’s not a secret that Hamas broke the ceasefire! They openely admitted to journalists today and the UN know they broke the ceasefire.

    [Irrelevant material removed]

  60.  

    Sinead, do not answer my question with more propaganda. You are not dealing with credulous fools here.

    Hamas did not agree that they broke the ceasefire. Please produce your source for this claim. .

  61.  

    [propaganda deleted]

    Sinead, answer the question. Produce your evidence. Produce your sources.

  62.  

    wow so much for free speech :) Not propaganda at all, fact! It was captured by CNN and Fox News…….

    Did you remove my reply because it is actually true…

  63.  

    Where did you get the idea that you had the freedom to talk nonsense on this site, Sinead?

    Answer the question, and we can continue with the discussion.

    What are your sources? Produce links.

  64.  

    you removed my source!! and removed another comment? Go check out CNN and FOX news when you get a chance…. They had that caption on it it. Censoring someones genuine reply, you playing big brother? :) or are you afraid to let let the other commentators on here come to their own own conclusions/observations? I thought you were an advocate of free speech?

    Anyway…. I’m right and it will be a case of I told you so.

  65.  

    You didn’t produce sources, Sinead. You gave me homework. That’s not good enough.

    You might not realise this, but all your comments are straight out of the Frank Luntz manual.

    You really will have to try harder if you want to push the Israeli cause, because at the moment you are failing badly as a propagandist.

    Produce your evidence that Hamas broke the ceasefire, and please don’t insult my intelligence by quoting Fox News.

  66.  

    I guessed that Sinead would return quoting gibberish from one of Murdoch’s Zionist propaganda organs. She won’t find any evidence – there is none.

  67.  

    I am beginning to find it hard to discuss this with those with a pro-Israeli stance, as I am listening to or reading the words of people who want to piss on the little mutilated corpses lying on Gaza beach, and so many other innocent victims of this atrocity. Whole families murdered. Kids asleep on the floor of UN school. Brutalized and oppressed people who will not kneel down. Fuck Israel and its inglorious history.

  68.  

    Bock I didn’t quote fox news and if you had let the comment visible, other commentatators would have seen that I didn’t quote fox news! I stated that Fox New and CNN and even the BBC and Sky News had a caption showing Hamas scurrying into tunnels after they fired rockets at Irael, and A Little Cynical, I wasn’t quoting any zionest giberish either….

    I tried to post the links you requested but each time I tried to post a subsequent comment (after you deleted the contents of two), I kept getting an error message and wordpress error, so was unable to post further.so packed it in at that point. Perhaps you don’t want the facts in plain view?

    I never said I was a supporter of Isreal, in fact I stated in one of the comments you removed that I was behind the people of Gaza and did not condone the way Isreal have acted. I said I was behind them.

    [propaganda warning]

    I do not support terrorists and Hamas are terrorists.

    There is a difference. There is a bigger picture here and people are not being objective….

  69.  

    Sinead, your language is straight out of the propaganda handbook.

    “Scurrying”. Like rats, perhaps?

    You saw video of people running into tunnels. From this, you deduced that it was Hamas who broke the ceasefire. Is that correct?

  70.  

    “As I said, I’m behind Israel 100 per cent.”

    “I’m with Israel 100 per cent on this.”

    Both quotes are from you Sinead.

    Now you say: “I never said I was a supporter of Isreal,”

    Seriously Sinead the left side of your brain does not seem to know what the right side is thinking. You’re all over the shop here.

    You also said: ” Go check out CNN and FOX news when you get a chance…”
    It’s no secret that Fox news is one of Murdoch’s Zionist propaganda organs.

    You need to start questioning what junk you’re being fed by some mainstream media sources.

  71.  

    I think maybe the ” Handbook ” fell under the table or somewhat because Sinead is having a serious lapse of memory.

    @ comment 40 Sinead writes that ” She” is ” 100 per cent behind Israel ” by comment 68 ” She ” writes ” I never said I was a supporter of Israel “

  72.  

    Liars are never usually that bright.
    You can admire them all you want, but they’re not bright enough to realise that they’re not fooling you.

  73.  

    I am with Israel 100 per cent on this and behind them, that doesn’t mean I support the way they handled the situation…. Artemis and A Little Cynical, anyone with a brain would know the difference! and Dash, unfortunately Bock decided to delete a couple of comments I posted, and now everyone is just speculating….

    Yes Bock,

    Hamas were scurrying like rats into the tunnels, leaving defenceless civilians to fend for themselves. They are using the locals to protect them, using them as shields, using their homes as safe houses and storing their weapons in areas/tunnels located near schools

    . I am not justifying Israels retaliation in opening fire near the school,

    (that was handled inappropriately)

    but it’s the second time this has happened, in that Hamas admitted the first time that they set off rockets from that position.

    Hamas have an ulterior motive

    and like I said, that will surface in the near future……..

  74.  

    Sinead, if you are 100% with Israel on this, can I take it that you approve with this morning’s airstrike that killed ten Palistinians sheltering at a U.N. school?

    Just to jog your faulty memory, it was the attack that the U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon accused Israel of commiting a “moral outrage and a criminal act”.

  75.  

    I have written the following in using Sinead’s inimitable style.

    As I said, I’m behind the Palestinians and Hamas Freedom Fighters 100 per cent. Israel don’t want a cease fire and they don’t care whether babies, children or women are killed.

    Isn’t it interesting that they continually break cease fires in areas crowded and packed with women and children and then try to blame Hamas? They are targeting innocent civilians in areas they know will be shelled and most idiots believe any kinda of dribble that Israel spout. The Israeli people in general are living on another planet at the moment. The IDF don’t care about their own people, they are only interested in slaughtering the Palestinians they’ve been oppressing for decades. Any country would retaliate and people in Gaza are right to try to protect their own. If Israel get away with what they are doing now, the innocent Palastinian people who are none the wiser, will be in a worse situation than they every were.

    I’m with Gaza 100 percent on this.

  76.  

    “I am with Israel 100 per cent on this and behind them, that doesn’t mean I support the way they handled the situation…. ”

    Sinead, Sinead, you’re tossing around word salad now. I predicted this would happen. “I’m with them, I’m behind them, but I don’t support them.” Give us a break!

    You’re up to your gills in shit now and in danger of suffocating yourself. You might get away with this kind of thing in school but you’re going to have to up your game a little here.

  77.  

    I really don’t require the speculation of what may or may not have been contained in ” deleted comments ” to know the difference between standing 100% behind something which will dictate the future of an entire population and the disapproval of the mean’s employed in ” handling the situation “.

    There is no dilemma for me at all when as my comment @ 55 is clear that the Military might of the IDF has all that is required to avoid the bloodletting which has been perpetrated on the Palestinians of Gaza.

    The destruction of Hospitals, Schools, Power Plant, Water sources, Mosque has guaranteed the crippling of an entire peoples for years to come, it is strategic and incomprehensibly vicious in its intent, it has changed the very core of my thought process and made me feel like an indulgent privileged hopeless occupant of this time in the World that I can do nothing. It has brought a whole new meaning to fear and hopelessness.

    Today Netanyahu made a speech calling on ” Responsible Leaders of the Western World ” and ” Decent right minded people all over the World ” to support Israel…..Well yes, I am sure I am neither Netanyahu’s ideal of ” Decent or right minded ” but I consider myself a damn decent human and I have seen my share of injustice but this has shredded me to the core so no more pathetic justification of the blatant hiding of true objectives, that is one area which cannot be bombed or shelled out of the minds of ” decent right minded people ” .

  78.  

    Sinead, two things.

    Firstly, you still have failed to produce any evidence that Hamas broke the ceasefire.

    Secondly, in future, I won’t delete parroted propaganda, since that seems counterproductive. Instead, I’ll enclose it in block quotes as I have done with your most recent comment.

  79.  

    Sinéad is behind them, like 100%. All the way.
    Anyone with half a brain would know what that means, says Sinéad.

    It’s all very simple Sinéad.

    It is a lie to say that Hamas use civilians as human shields.
    You’re justifying the fact that Israel has murdered tens of hundreds of innocent civilians indiscriminately, saying it’s Hamas’ fault.
    All lies, and you’re an apologist and a propagandist for them.

    Today Netanyahu made a speech calling on Responsible Leaders of the Western World ” and ” Decent right minded people all over the World ” to support Israel
    It’s like something out of Nineteen Eighty-Four. Orwell couldn’t have wrote it better.

  80.  

    As a general principle, I’d appreciate it if people pushing the Israeli PR line would try harder.

    Propaganda should be nuanced and aimed at its target audience. Mouthing nonsense that was designed for the Fox News audience is not only a waste of effort, but also annoying and somewhat insulting.

    I demand a better standard of dishonesty.

  81.  

    wow Bock, I see you have edited yet another of my comments! What are you afraid of? :)

    Did any of you watch the interview with the Hamas leader earlier?

    [propaganda warning]

    Seems that was censored in quite a lot of countries.

    Sky news had nothing, BBC had about 5 seconds. He was openely asked why they kept breaking the ceasfire, and for a while he danced around it,

    [propaganda warning]

    like all terrorists do, and said they would not enter into any ceasefire unless they got what they wanted. They basically want Israel out of Israel

    from my understanding.

    I am all for the Palastinian people and their cause and do not see any justification for Isreal firing on a UN base/school.

    But if most of you are soooo sure that Hamas didn’t break the ceasefire,

    [propaganda warning]

    how can you be soooo sure that Israel actually fired at that school?

    [propaganda warning]

    He was asked why Hamas had set up bases in areas crowded with civilians and why they set up bases near UN buildings to fire their rockets and why they were putting civilians in the line of fire and at risk. He didn’t deny it nor did he explain or justify Hamas reasons for this. He said that the Palastinian peopel were prepared to die for the cause….

    Israel has admitted that their target was

    [propaganda warning]

    two Islam extremists

    on a motorbike circling that area hit. Hamas leader stated that they will continue to fire rockets at Israel…..

    [propaganda warning]

    It’s obvious they don’t want a solution to this.

    [propaganda warning]

    Hamas have broken the humanitarian ceasefire already today, the one that they refused to conform to, and there have been several terrorist attacks today throughout Israel…. suicide bombers.

  82.  

    Sinead, you claimed Hamas broke the ceasefire but instead of producing evidence, you repeat Israeli government spin.

    What’s an extremist, Sinead?

    And by the way, Sinead, Israel broke today’s ceasefire with an airstrike on a house, killing a child. As usual, they’re “investigating”.

  83.  

    “I am all for the Palastinian people and their cause and do not see any justification for Isreal firing on a UN base/school.”

    Stop lying Sinead. You clearly don’t give a shit about Palestinian people. You have consistently lied and contradicted yourself throughout your comments and have been called out on it. Your vague, ill informed, bigoted rhetoric is getting tiresome.

    You have attempted in some of your comments to dehumanise Palestinians with wild accusations about them not caring for their people.

    The IDF aided by the US government are now and have been, terrorising and slaughtering Palestinians for decades.

  84.  

    propaganda warning

    Nice one Bock. Cutting through the bullshit as usual.
    Sinéad, you’re out of your league but please keep scurrying around like the weasel you are.

  85.  

    Strange. Reading the Israeli papers, I can find a report of only two incidents, one involving a man with a digger attacking a bus and the other concerning a man with a gun. No sign of Sinead’s suicide bombers.

  86.  

    Bock, you are editing my comments to suit yourself and saying it’s propaganda, I find it hillarious.

    “”And by the way, Sinead, Israel broke today’s ceasefire with an airstrike on a house, killing a child. As usual, they’re “investigating”.””

    [propaganda warning]

    How do you know Israel broke the ceasefire??? where’s your proof?? You slam me for claiming Hamas broke the ceasefire and ask me for proof, yet you have no proof either way?

    [propaganda warning]

    The Hamas leader openely admitted on camera that they broke the ceasefire in the past few day.

    [propaganda warning]

    There is no evidence yet that Israel fired shells at the UN base yesterday. It looks that way, but there is no proof .

    [propaganda warning]

    Isn’t it stange that another child was in the firing line again today? just after Israel announced a seven hour humanitarian cease fire… Hamas are using the media to justify their cause and using innocent bystanders . If they were genuinely concerned for the plight of the Palastinian people to begin with, why build expensive tunnels all over?, instead of fixing the infastructure in Gaza and helping the people of Gaza? As long as Hamas keep firing rockets at Israel and Israel retaliate, there were never be hope of ending this and reaching a joint agreement.

    And, Artemis I am not out of my league. I guarantee you it will be a case of I told you so pretty soon…..

  87.  

    Bock…. I don’t know what news articles you are reading, but in the last few weeks it was found that over 20 building were found with explosives and booby traps and that’s just in Gaza…. UN verified this last week. A number of explosive devices found in Israel also and along the border.

    [propaganda warning]

    It was a suicide bomber who broke the ceasefire the other day, resulting in the death of an Israeli soldier. A number of European channels reported suicide bombers in Israel today.

    [propaganda warning]

    Hamas rocket sare fired from the shelter of local schools and hospitals and have been caught on camera by foreign journalists. A percentage of Hamas rockets misfire and drop on Gaza i.e. the market place and hopsital last week

    [propaganda warning]

    Hamas are an extreme Islamist organisation…..

  88.  

    “Shayma Sheikh Khalil, 5 days old, was born prematurely via caesarian section on July 26, 2014, 10 minutes after her mother died from wounds in an Israeli airstrike. Shayma was referred to as a “miracle baby” for surviving. However, baby Shayma died on July 30, 2014 when her incubator shut off, when Israeli forces attacked power plants in Gaza causing a power outage”
    http://humanizepalestine.com/page/4/

  89.  

    Sinead, one IDF say they are investigating, it means they are guilty. They are still “looking into” the death of children playing on Gaza beach. On the other hand, No much investigation was needed to establish that HAMAS kidnapped 3 Israeli Kids and use it as a pretext to unleash this onslaught. To date where is the evidence that this was the case?

  90.  

    Sinead — the IDF claimed it was a suicide bomber who broke the ceasefire. Amazingly, they first claimed that this “suicide bomber” had been a distraction to facilitate the abduction of Lieut Hadar Goldin. This was in the same incident that they used to as an excuse to continue attacking Gaza, by claiming that the soldier had been adbducted, a claim they later retracted when they examined forensic evidence at the location.

    Hamas, on the other hand, say that three of their men and Hadar Goldin were killed by a missile from Israeli aircraft.

    Do you have independent confirmation of your version or are you just passing on whatever you’re given by your handler?

    I don’t intend to follow all your red herrings, incidentally, but I will continue to mark naked propaganda for what it is, including emphasising the use of weasel-words like “extremist” and “terrorist”. Wherever a sentence or a paragraph closely follows the template laid down by Frank Luntz for Hasbara activists, it will be marked as propaganda.

    I won’t let you peddle the message of death unchallenged or use this website as a platform for the cult of genocide you seem to admire so much.

    Every time you post crude propaganda, it will be highlighted for what it is. Get used to that.

  91.  

    From Naomi Wolf ( a welcome change from Sinead’s Israeli embassy source) —

    Why is the West not reporting on the confirmed fact that the wounded still can’t get out? How is this not a huge news story? Wounded at almost ten thousand…substantial numbers with disabilities already. “Over 35 percent of the wounded as a result of the Israeli assault on the Gaza Strip suffer from visual, hearing, or mobility impairments, the spokesman of the Palestinian health ministry said Sunday.

    He added that 55 percent of the wounded are women and children who were home at the time they were attacked.

    The lack of medical supplies will likely raise these figures, he said.

    “The shortage in medical teams and the lack of safe exits for the wounded in Gaza will increase the number of disabilities, because most injuries are in the chest or head,” he said.

    According to the Palestinian ministry of health, the death toll on the 27th day of the Israeli operation in Gaza has climbed to 1766 Palestinians, and the number of wounded has reached 9300, until 1:00 p.m. on Sunday. “https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/…/13206-35-of-the…

    35% of the wounded in Gaza suffer disabilities
    http://www.middleeastmonitor.com

  92.  

    Let’s get back to where we started. Sinead stated as follows on the 2nd August.

    With Hamas it’s all about control… They broke the cease fire yesterday deliberately.

    “Yesterday” refers to the 1st August 2014, for clarity. We have still seen no evidence to substantiate this claim.

    The word deliberately is highlighted because it’s specifically identified in Frank Luntz’s propaganda manual as a word that should always be repeated by people arguing the Israeli case in the media.

    In keeping with the policy prompted by Sinead’s intervention, all such weasel words will be highlighted in this way.

    Other examples are extremist, terrorist and Islamic.

  93.  

    Been having another look at the Luntz document. I think the following clauses are relevant to Sinead’s comments thus far.

    Persuadables won’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. Show Empathy for BOTH sides!

    THINK “PRO-PALESTINIAN”
    “While I have spoken about Israeli casualties, I want to recognize those Palestinians that have been killed or wounded, because they are suffering as well. I
    particularly want to reach out to Palestinian mothers who have lost their children. No parent should have to bury their child.
    ?

  94.  

    I guarantee you it will be a case of I told you so pretty soon
    How so Sinéad?

  95.  

    Sinead seems vey emphatic with her guarantees, but as she has not actually stated what the ‘I told you so’ is, we’re left guessing. Her words are utterly hollow and meaningless. She has tried to convince us that she’s right without any substantiation. She’s all hot air really.

  96.  

    Sinead is going to be busy.

    Whatever about the people here who know nothing, she’ll have to educate the US State Department, which called the bombing “disgraceful”, Obama’s aide Valerie Jarret, who said it was “indefensible” and UN ambassador Samantha Power, who called it “horrific”.

    But hey, what would they know? They’ve obviously swallowed Hamas’s lies too.

    Here’s a report on the shelling that Sinead won’t like.

  97.  
  98.  

    I see Jodi Rudoren’s name is on that New York Times piece. While there is an attempt to tell the truth and expose some of the facts, I find the following paragraphs suspect.

    Gadi Shamni, a retired Israeli general who once commanded the Gaza division, agreed that “smart weapons” were more appropriate than artillery in such places but said that “to rescue forces that are getting into trouble, sometimes you have to use a little more firepower.”

    “In any war, there are malfunctions and mistakes,” General Shamni said. Hamas militants “usually do things in order to attract” Israeli fire, he added, “and hope that some mistake will cause a disaster in order to delegitimize Israel.”

    I see Gadi Shamni has been somewhat careful by referring to ‘Hamas militants’ but then accuses them of “usually do things in order to attract” Israeli fire, “and hope that some mistake will cause a disaster in order to delegitimize Israel.” – well he would say that wouldn’t he.

  99.  

    How it got started?

    You open borders and give full access to Gaza or we’ll send rockets into Israel!

    No, stop sending rockets over, or we’ll bomb you! (and we’re much bigger than you!)

    Fuck you!

    Well then, fuck you too….

    2200 ++ deaths later…

    well ok then

    ok then I’ll agree too!

    Violence stops – Gaza celebrates!

    All the “partisan shite” quoted here came to nothing – once there were enough bodies counted, MAGICALLY the problem gets solved (for the moment anyway).

    At least I get to vote out the ass-holes in Israel if I want – what choice do I have if I’m a Palestinian??

    I’d emigrate to Israel – even if my lot was lousy there, I’d avoid the gangsters masquerading as freedom fighters!

  100.  

    I felt sick to my stomach reading that Israel is to appropriate 400 hectares in West Bank for ‘state use’.
    Piece by piece Israel will ‘appropriate’ that last little strip of land.

  101.  

    I agree, it’s violence by another name, and yet another episode in the vicious circle of war.

    I’m sure it will be a very good excuse now for the other side to come up with another angle on violence.

    How to break the vicious circle – now there’s a question worthy of some blogging – of the objective kind??

  102.  

    By objective, I take it you mean ignoring the obvious and assuming the Israeli and Palestinian positions have equal merit.

  103.  

    as far a violence goes, there is no doubt israel is much better at it and they pretty much don’t give a shit whether shells fall long or short or wide. The tank shelling was the most feared of all in Gaza, because they could land anywhere. The results are there to be seen. firing of artillery into a built up area will result in “unintended” casualties. They kill at 50 meters radius. They are meant for the battlefield and basically used in numbers will clear an area by carpeting it and killing everyone. Shrapnel can seriously injure at 100 meters radius. It doesn’t matter , we all know israel doesn’t give a fuck who they hit inside the wall. Regarding the latest land grab, thats just what isreal does during “peace” , as they always have, ramp up the pressure in west bank and expand the settlements. So my suggestion is – maybe START by
    1. stop the constant overhead torture of buzzing drones 24 hours a day since ceasefire.
    2. Stop expanding illegal settlements , obey at least UN directive and international calls. Maybe even declare this intention.
    3. Easing of blockade promised bu israel, we’ll keep an eye on that.

  104.  

    BTW Toff, your summary of “how it started” – was that joke or are you serious? Secondly are you aware that HAMAS were elected in a free election? I don’t think you are a serious Pro israel blogger at all, come on cut the shit. Do you actually know anything about it? I think you know about it as a dog knows about his father, and that’s f all!

  105.  

    @Bock That’s correct.

  106.  

    I see. You want people to ignore the evidence of their own eyes, and that’s what you consider objective.

    What other oppressed people, in your opinion, are as bad as those who drove them from their homes?

    The North American Indians?
    The Irish of 16th century Ulster?
    The European Jews?
    The Bosnian Muslims?
    The Armenians?
    The Bengali Hindus?

    Go on. Explain when a dispossessed people become culpable for not lying down and meekly accepting their fate.

  107.  

    “as bad as” or “equal merit” language will not solve the problem – I still havn’t heard the slightest idea from anyone on how this problem gets solved.

    I’m sure I could find pro-Israeli sites that would have equally extreme views from their side.

    As anyone with eyes will have seen – my views are only focussed on RESOLVING the problem…the pictures of dying children had an impression on me too – but it doesn’t drive me into just arguing someone’s case, just trying to develop a discussion on possible solutions – little chance here it seems.

  108.  

    The problem will not be solved unless israel is forced to negotiate in earnest. Coming to the table without the slightest intention of giving anything is pointless. So its unsolvable, unless U.S. decide to force israel to be serious about a peace settlement, or unless other pressure is brought to bear on israel. Can I suggest you support the boycott Toff?

  109.  

    Go away out of that. You’ve been talking about competing ideologies since the start of this. That’s just another way of trying to equate the Palestinian position with the Israeli, while ignoring the wholesale theft of land that caused this problem in the first place.

  110.  

    Flat earth calling Zionist Toff…come in…..

  111.  

    Guys, you’re priceless, you really are!

    Go away out that yourself, you just have to be having me on! LOL.

  112.  

    LOL?

    Major fail there Toff.

  113.  

    Balance is fine. It mentions nothing of the segregated buses parts of Israel, the threats against journalists , etc. He mentions nothing of the Christian community in Gaza, living in peaceful co-existance with their Muslim neighbors. Not to mention Orthodox Jewish extremes on Womens dress code, How are the women treated there? Have to walk on opposite side of the road if a man approaches! They certainly know how to oinflict their warped moral standards on everyone around them. Seeing as its OK to pick the extreme and present it as the norm, can I do the same? An it goes on, blah blah, There are people suffering in many places, go help them, leave israel alone! Stop picking on us, maybe you just hate Jews? You shower of lefties, misguided, ignorant of the real israel. All our neighbors hate us, no matter how much we invade them, commit massacres, Bomb UN Shelters, burn them and cook their lungs with phosperous, occupy their territories, knock down their houses, wall them in and cut them off, stop them moving around their own country, they still hate us. BOO HOO, no one understands us, its just not fair!

  114.  

    Check out Press TV, there’s an article there today called The Big Lie, ( can’t get the link up ) , I think they copied your idea Bock,

    and here’s a link to an Aljazeera page with two documentaries about Folke Bernadotte , we’ll worth a watch.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2014/06/killing-count-20146282143931887.html

  115.  

    Ok, he’s mainly caught up with 9/11, but the point is still on topic, the big lie, and then the big “war”

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/09/13/378642/911-the-mother-of-all-big-lies/

  116.  

    I can’t claim credit for that idea. The big lie is a long-established notion.

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