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Giving birth reduces trauma of rape, says farmer on Vincent Browne show

vincent browne rape abortion

I’m just going to leave this here without comment. A farmer on the Vincent Browne show, opposing abortion, explains to women that giving birth reduces trauma of rape. There really is no need to say anything more about this. I suppose it’s what a lifetime thinking of women as heifers reduces a man to.

 

 

 

59 replies on “Giving birth reduces trauma of rape, says farmer on Vincent Browne show”

He’s representative of a deeply ingrained misogyny we have here in this little Island.

A fear and hatred of women that gives a sense of entitlement to old codgers like that who think they can get up and tell women what to do with their bodies and how they’re going to feel.

He has done research into mothers suffering from double grief, So all the name callers need to also do some before they playground bully

I’m somewhat disappointed that none of the analyses presented so far has contained any elucidation pertaining to the semiotics of the cap.

No woman wants or deserves to be raped. Giving birth to a rapists child is a horrific trauma for a woman and a very brave thing to choose to do. That man does not have a clue.

I tried emailing you. You have no contactable contact info. So who exactly are you. You have an awful lot of anger stirring comments for someone who is basically a coward as you remain anonymous.

If there is some inaccuracy in this post, please point it out and it will be corrected.

If you just want to unload, then please speak to your priest.

Women should have an automatic right to seek the abortion of a foetus which is the product of rape if this is their wish. Otherwise we must assume that society believes that women must carry the progeny of non consensual sex to term, in effect we are genetically rewarding rapists– who needs to bother with the niceties and traumas of relationships and child rearing? – if you rape enough women, their inability to abort your dirty-work will ensure your genes are passed on. On the other hand if rapists were castrated, this would be a much more sensible outcome.

Ewan, Really?, without any qualification or exceptions? A complete free for all? – that sounds about as considered as a Fianna Fail election manifesto.

Sounds like: “I’m not a racist, but…”

Nobody will forget traumatic events. What kind of argument is that?

A woman will never forget a rape. You think that a woman prefers to be remembered to the rapist by having his child? That’s a never ending trauma, for the child as well.

Abortion is a woman’s decision alone. Full stop.

I know a woman who became pregnant by rape. She dismissed abortion and today she is glad that she did.
I might point out to you here, abortion is also a traumatic event. and as I did say before, I am not mitigating rape.

Oh, by the way, if you advise a woman to have an abortion and she takes your advice, don’t be too suprised if she ends up hating you for it.

Here’s an idea , In a Rape case with a pregnancy , If the woman chooses to abort then a manslaughter charge for the death of the unborn child is added to the rapists sentence . If the Mother has the child then the sentence is added anyway .

Did they just make the internets available out in ballygobackwards ?

Here’s an idea.. back to the field with ye hillbillies and leave civilised conversation to the grown ups.

We won’t forget you Dickey, buh bye now

I have been reflecting on this article maybe because abortion means something to me personally and I might say a bit more and I don’t care how it cuts against the grain with others here.
I think Sharon Murphy at number 7 hit the nail on the head with the expression “double grief”.

The farmer in the Vincent Browne show is actually more right than wrong if you think about it. All that is really wrong with him is that he is frightfully disregarding of political correctness —– he couldn’t care a fart what anyone thinks of him ——- he is as uncouth and coarse as they come. He never went to uni, that’s for sure. The man is pig ignorant and most important of all —–
he is dead right with everything he said.

His big mistake was that he sounded so unsympathetic of rape. Vincent Browne nearly shit a brick when he copped on to what the implications for his show might be and he diverted the conversation pronto! I think that our farmer friend might have given a better understanding to this horrible situation but he is right in saying that abortion is worse. Yes, a double grief for sure.
Rape is an appalling trauma for any woman to endure but abortion is worse. As I already said abortion you will not forget and expressing my opionion now, although you might come to terms with rape you will have a very hard time putting abortion behind you.

There was a book written some years ago called “Bridge across my sorrows” by one Christina Nobel who came from an extremely deprive background in the slums of Dublin in the 50’s and who founded a caring home for Vietnamese street children in Vietnam. She relates how she was gang raped at the age of 16 and became pregnant as a result. I suggest reading her account. She has been looking for her little one lost, (Thomas), ever since.

Please stick to the point. The issue here is not which is worse, rape or abortion. This is not a general discussion on abortion, or for that matter, on rape.

The issue is that a man declared childbirth reduces the trauma of rape.

Dickey, most everything you said was wrong.

Abortion isn’t a traumatic event, and you can’t say that any given woman will regret it.
I would think that the majority of women who’ve had abortions thought it through properly and don’t regret it. I’ve read accounts of women being indifferent after having one and of them being relieved. The only trauma they wrote about was of having to piss off abroad Dickey.

It’s difficult not to think of you as slightly thick as two shites, sorry now.. but go on away with your nonsense.

Personally, I think men’s opinions should be taken out of the equation.
Why should this bone head get a vote on this?

Personally I think men should have a say in the impending abortion of their child. Where a women is pregnant through rape or a casual daliance then she and she alone should decide. However in the instance of marriage or long term relationships then I believe the man is entitled to a say. I realise this is vague, eg what constitutes a long term relationship.

Mea Culpa.

I can’t see how child birth could possibly reduce the trauma of rape. I would imagine that while most women would bond with their child, the nature of their conception must be impossible to forget.
Actually as a man I can’t imagine the trauma of rape, I’m pretty sure the farmer can’t either.

Dickey, as Artemis said you are wrong on so many levels.

Nothing can relief a rape. It haunts and soils you forever. But you wouldn’t know about that, don’t you?

But claiming that giving birth to a rapist’s or any unwanted child heals a woman is just the pinnacle of ignorance.

I’ve been raped as a teenager.

I’ve had an abortion.

I’m still glad decades later about the latter.

Now tell me how I am supposed to feel.

I dare you.

Sorry to hear that Carry.
I can’t understand anyone telling you how you might feel.. let alone a man who could never be in the position. Some people are just ignorant and they seem to think it’s a characteristic to be proud of.
It’s still amazing to me that any man feels like they know what’s best for women.
Great little backward country all the same isn’t it.

Thanks, Artemis, but it’s really a long time ago. And I have no regrets.

The rape though left, thankfully for me, not a feeling of fear and humiliation but a simmering rage which explodes as soon as any man (or woman) thinks he/she can control me or tell me how to feel and think.
I’ve been known for such outbursts even in my Irish countryside environs…

And it’s not only men or even backwards men who think that a woman’s purpose is to give birth, no matter under which circumstances she received or what the outcome for the child might be.

There are women, too, not only the old biddies but seemingly enlightened women who suddenly get all stoney faced or even aggressive when it comes to abortion.

Same with men, lefties, enlightened, egalitarian, even revolutionarily (is there such a word?) condoning killing born people for freedeom or whatever reason – but abortion? No way.

And it’s not only in Ireland, believe me.

I’m still waiting for Dickey’s response telling me how to feel.
So, Dickey?

Carry, I have carefully considered all that I have written in the four comments that I have posted and apart from posting number 25 which just turned out to have been an invitation for garbage response, I do not see anything that should offend you.

We do not differ at all on our attitude to rape. We both agree that it is a vicious and terrible assault. What we do differ on is the notion that men do not really understand rape which may be true of many persons, men and women, but it is not true of me.
I am familiar with the rape situation complicated by pregnancy and you won’t tell me much about it. Do you think that I need to be raped myself before I finally understand it ? Have you ever been knifed or slashed? I don’t know, but do you need to be knifed or slashed before it finally drives home to you the crushing fear?
As I said aforegoing in 21, I know a woman who was raped and gave birth to a baby as a result. I married her. I took the child as my own and I became a father to her and I love her as a father even though I am not her sire. (A far more demanding office being a father than being a sire —– any fool can be a sire.) Although I did not have any say in the matter at the time, I am so glad today that the little girl whom we loved all those years ago did not end up as a bloody mess in a bucket !

Now, let me tell you how I became a would-be murderer: Long before I met the lady mentioned above, I had a girlfriend with whom I talked about the prospect of marriage. We were not destitute nor near that, but we were not well off. We had jobs. We became fearful of a pregnancy at such time when there was “no home, no money, no nothing”. We discussed the prospect of abortion and I remember lying beside her one night as she whimpered whispering to me ” Please don’t let me go through with an abortion”. To make a long story short, that an abortion did not happen was no thanks to me but had it left to me that is exactly what would have happened. We parted, needless to say.
No trauma in an abortion, you recon? Y’know Carry, from that day to this I have not forgotten nor forgiven myself for what I was so ready to do and push the woman I loved to it. No trauma? Think again. Just the prospect was enough for me.
.

Now,that I have qualified myself to speak to you as an equal, its over to you.
You were 16 when you were raped. I feel truly in empathy with you even though you might think that I don’t.
On the matter of the resulting abortion I am guessing here, I would imagine that you did not have the last say on the matter being only 16 at the time. Am I right?
The disgust of giving birth to your rapist’s baby is easy to understand. Posing, (not asking) a very sensitive question here which is really none of my business: Did you know the rapist?
There is a huge difference between rape at the hands of someone who you know (and possibly loved beforehand), and some unknown drunken bowsie. Being assaulted by an unknown thug is much like being attacked by an animal —- the thug is only an animal and like an animal he knows no better and you can’t get too angry with an animal — its their nature.

It is very unfortunate that you have explosive episodes of anger, (simmering rage), if discussion should arise with the wrong people but being very careful, frank and understanding here, I will say that this may be an indication that you have not fully come to terms with the past and I believe that you must come to terms with things and not be forever looking back. Forgetting in the sense of deleting things is not possible but healing is in spite of scars. I hope that you are not offended by my advice. I know that you cannot forget rape nor abortion, even spontanous abortion, any more than you can forget having your eyes kicked out by your friend. (I know of that).

Now, to knit all this into what our farmer friend publicly declared: First you must understand that the man is rash and highly imprudent to say the least. I do not believe that he understands rape or abortion in any deep sense, but like it or lump it he is more right than wrong. I would just modify his statement with the word “can” rather than his implyed “will”. Note carefully also his word “REDUCE” “Giving birth CAN — CAN, REDUCE the trauma of rape.” Needless to say it is not true in every case but speaking from experience, I know at least one. Unfortunatly, he presented himself as though giving birth was some kind of compensation or panacea for rape which it is not, of course.

Bock, I have found it very hard to answer Carry with perfect honesty and at the same time remain within the bounds of the post but it seems that Carry does want an answer and I think that she deserves one. If you want to deleate it, then so be it, but I would be obliged if it was sent on privaly and you can give her my email addy if you want.

Dickey, I understand that you are trying to stay within the limits.

I have only one thing to remark on your post: in my view no man is the equal of a woman in the matter of rape or pregnancy.

Dickey: Many words don’t make neccessarily up for limited understanding.

You continue to patronize me and thus women in general.
You make assumptions. I never said I was 16. Is it your fantasy about sweet little sixteens?
My decision was not influenced by anyone, it was mine and mine alone and I fought for it.
You keep telling me I have issues. I don’t, but people who can’t deal with an opinionated and argumentative woman have.
You are looking to belittle me, making me out as the poor little girl who can’t handle it all on her lonely and can’t make her own decisions. She needs a sanctimonious man like yourself to guide her through life. I know this tactic and I don’t approve. I don’t approve at all. (I try very hard to be civil here.)

Go have a talk with your farmer friend pondering the “bloody mess in a bucket” and how healing it is for the little ladies who don’t know what’s best for them to give birth like a good heifer.

Great stuff Dickey.

“how I became a would-be murderer:” Wrong Dickey. Abortion isn’t murder.

“the thug is only an animal and like an animal he knows no better and you can’t get too angry with an animal” Wrong Dickey. You’d be very angry and animals that attack are usually put down.

“I believe that you must come to terms with things and not be forever looking back”
You have to be trolling. You do a good job at being a sanctimonious prick though.

You should see the bloody mess down my toilet bowl every month Dickey.. Probably been the odd spontaneous abortion on occasion too that I wasn’t aware of.
I’ll have to come to terms with it somehow.

Carry,

Thank you for your conversation. Many words simply indicate that I took a bit of trouble for you.

16 was a mindset mistake triggered by my last paragraph in number 26. My apologies.

I do not patronise women. I just conduct myself as a gentleman towards them even when it is difficult to do so.

I think it fitting and proper to take leave now.

G’day to you, Madam.

Dickey, Sydney, Australia.

“I do not patronise women” Oh but you do Dickey.

I believe you have not come to terms with your misogynistic views, even though you try to be a gentlemen towards them.
I suggest you work on it Dickey. You have a long way to go. I hope you are not offended by my advice now.

Sorry for butting in there Carry.

Don’t be, Artemis. You are not butting in. It’s good to have a “sister in arms” against such gentlemen like Dickey :-)))

Definitely.
Even though I’ve been a bit contrary on occasion, I’m supportive for the most part (I think) and I don’t really carry grudges. :)
And thanks for sharing your story.
Ok my moment of zen is over.. time to rip someone a new arsehole somewhere. :)

@Carry, @Artemis

You know, most of the time I would consider myself in agreement with most of what ye say, but in this case I think you have both behaved horribly towards Dickey whose comments, despite being perhaps a bit laboured, seemed genuine enough to me. (even if I didn’t quite agree with him)

The fact that they have elicited such vociferously angry responses from both of you shows some things. You both clearly have deep-seated anger inside you, no matter how either of you might deny it. And you both clearly lack the ability to entertain a conflicting opinion.

I don’t mean this as an insult and am only calling it as I see it, but please, re-read this entire comment thread as though you hadn’t written anything in it, and consider how your attitude towards any opinion but your own has effectively (and not for the first time) shut down the possibility of any meaningful debate on the subject.

Neither of you has a monopoly on suffering, or on opinions thereof, and to continue to behave as though you do is quite frankly an insult to the rest of us schmucks.

And in order to pre-empt the expected response flame apocalypse – Merry Christmas to both of you :)

I can see how a woman who was raped might have a deep-seated anger. Can’t you?

And if not, why not?

What is wrong with having a deep-seated anger?

Steve, he called abortion murder, and referred to it as a bloody mess in a bucket.
He was also what I’d consider to be patronising, telling Carry what she has not come to terms with. He also said you’d never forget an abortion and it’s a tramatic event. That’s all based on his personal experience/opinion. I don’t need to read it again.

I’d have no problem with him saying abortion wouldn’t have been ok for him, and his ex girlfriend, and his wife, and that he personally would have felt guilty and he/they would have regretted it.. but he presumes that’s how all women should feel. I.e. he can’t entertain a conflicting opinion.

It’s that certainty, that ‘I know what’s best for you’ attitude that I have a problem with.
It’s very domineering and patronising.

I don’t doubt any of the anti-abortion brigade are genuine.. This is what some of these genuine types put women through at family planning clinics –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-_GzbHDNz0

@Bock – Nothing wrong with having anger about that kind of thing..but I never said there was anything wrong with it.

Both Carry and Artemis are, in my opinion, using this anger as an excuse to shout down anyone who disagrees with their views. And I do believe that *is* wrong.

I believe it’s not so different to some of the tactics the lunatics you have so often exposed on this site have employed in trying to suffocate dissenters.

I hate to say it but it’s one of the reasons I’ve more or less given up contributing comments to this site (much as I enjoy reading it) because more often than not it seems to end up with a small group of very opinionated commentators drowning out any dissenting voice.

And not only shouting people down but being downright nasty about it. I have little issue with obvious trolls being given their marching orders, but I do feel strongly about the way this has played out.

Not that anything I ever had to say was anything but my own naive opinion (and $deity knows, I have made my fair share of barbs on this site, and said some things I am not terribly proud of) but it used to be that you could have a reasonably meaningful debate here.

Can I ask you in all honesty – if you were spoken to in the same manner as Dickey was, leaving aside whether your opinion was or was not questionable, would you you feel happy about it?

But of course it’s your site and you make the rules; I just feel strongly about it because, well, I love this site and I enjoy your writing immensely, as well as the contributions of many other people here, and I don’t want to see your point (or anyone else’s) get lost in a torrent of noise.

Then again, this is all still just my opinion, and I’m not looking for a fight so I’ll leave it at that…

Love and Hugs :)

You’ll notice that Dickey has full freedom to express his opinions here. But he lost me when he claimed to speak to a woman as an equal on the subjects of rape and pregnancy.

In my opinion, no man can make that claim. What do you think? Would you claim to be the equal of a woman when discussing rape or pregnancy?

„You know, most of the time I would consider myself in agreement with most of what ye say, but …“

A sentence which starts with „you know“ implicates „you don’t have a clue“. Followed by the infamous and patronizing „but“.

„… in this case I think you have both behaved horribly towards Dickey…“

Women do that to men who behave horribly towards women. Get used to it.

„…whose comments, despite being perhaps a bit laboured, seemed genuine enough to me.“

I agree. You can be genuine in your beliefs, like priests who think that raping a child is fine and it’s a woman’s own fault being raped, since god forgives MEN everything.
Sorry, that was a bit under the belt, but you know (sic!), a woman’s scorn is deadly. Mine at least.

„(even if I didn’t quite agree with him)“ – trying to be on the safe side, are we?

„The fact that they have elicited such vociferously angry responses from both of you shows some things. You both clearly have deep-seated anger inside you, no matter how either of you might deny it. And you both clearly lack the ability to entertain a conflicting opinion.“

Aw, the boy is scared. Women with deep-seated anger. Vociferously women. That shrinks your little thingy, doesn’t it – that is your brain, not what you probably think.

And no, I don’t entertain bollocks, conflicting or not.

„I don’t mean this as an insult…“
– of course you don’t. You just think that women don’t see things as you think they should.

„…and am only calling it as I see it…“
That’s fine and you are entitled to it, but it just confirms my anger that there are still people around who think that a woman has to comply with male values.

Ah shuck it. I actually think that people should comply with my values. Are we even, so? :-)

„ … but please, re-read this entire comment thread as though you hadn’t written anything in it…“

I did, darling, and I was pondering a long time to write anything in this post, because it was so personal, but the amount of ignorance just triggered my typing fingers. Our Dickey just took the biscuit.

„…and consider how your attitude towards any opinion but your own has effectively (and not for the first time) shut down the possibility of any meaningful debate on the subject.“

I take that as a compliment. Finally I managed apparently to silence bullshitters.
So you followed my opinions? Learn from them!
And what is meaningful for you? Compliance?

I cherish other opinions, hell, I even bother to post in Bock’s controversal pieces, as long as I have an opinion of my own.

„Neither of you has a monopoly on suffering…“
No, but we have stories of suffering. Does that count beyound your own?

„…or on opinions thereof“.
No? No opinions of our own? You can count yourself lucky not to meet me personally. Read a few posts above.

„… and to continue to behave as though you do is quite frankly an insult to the rest of us schmucks“

I do continue, I do insult, especially schmucks like yourself. Happy?

Happy holiday, hanukka, christmas, solstice, jupiter in virgo, duck legs in freezer and general merryment.
Not to forget the Prosecco.

@Bock “Would you claim to be the equal of a woman when discussing rape or pregnancy?” – of course not, and I don’t see where in my comments I even hinted that this would be the case.

Nevertheless – if having personal experience of something is a prerequisite for having an opinion on it (and for being able to express that opinion without being torn to shreds), then what’s the point? Can you not agree that a little civility might go a long way and might even help to change someone’s opinion for the better? Must every debate here be a binary right/wrong situation? Must everyone who disagrees (no matter how wrong they appear to be) be subjected to ad-hominem rebuttals?

@Artemis – yes what Dickey said is claimed to be based on his personal experience of the world. No more or less than yours, I would wager.

In my opinion, neither Dickey nor yourself has the right to claim that these experiences are dead right or dead wrong, and neither of you has the right to dismiss the other’s argument so aggressively. And that’s my only point. I don’t have a meaningful opinion to add to the subject matter of the debate per se.

@carry – I’m not going to try to respond point by point, on the basis that anything I say will probably only enrage you further :) Although I’m not sure why you think I’d need to play it safe, it’s not like you know where I live (I hope!)

Anyway how about this. Please allow me to set you a challenge.

Print off this entire page. Black out the names on and in the comments. Show the printout to ten people. If half or more of them feel that your (anonymous, don’t forget to black out the names) comments are reasonable then you win and I am dead wrong.

If not then perhaps you might consider that maybe I had a point. Or not; it’s totally up to you.

“You can count yourself lucky not to meet me personally”.

Indeed, I do.

In all seriousness, I do believe you have some seriously unhealthy anger in you, and if your commenting style is is some way cathartic to you, then that’s cool, nothing you can say to me can hurt me anyway. So this is going to sound weird but I don’t like the idea of people being unhappy so if it helps please feel free to rip me to shreds any time :)

Anyway.

Peace out.

What is unhealthy anger?
Compared to the healthy violence of rapists or healthy superiority of the likes of you?
Please?

” and neither of you has the right to dismiss the other’s argument so aggressively. ”
Why not? I think some opinions are just wrong. What way would you like it put to you ‘I think you need to reflect on that, hugs’? I think it’s incredibly patronising telling women how they should feel based on how you would feel. He even goes so far as to say you shouldn’t feel angry with a rapist, they’re just like an animal.

And Steve, I feel like you’re being a bit manipulative saying you have more or less given up contributing comments, due to some opinionated commentators drowning out dissenting voice.

And for that matter I think Dickey was a bit manipulative. He throw a few stinkers into the room, gets a reaction, walks aways saying “awe poor me, wha-did-I-do.. it were just me opinions”.

I hope you consider that civil now.. I want you to be happy Steve. :) Hugs.

@Bock – I was referring to other commenters making ad-hominem attacks on Dickey, not anything you said.

@Artemis – I’m sorry you feel I’m being manipulative,that’s not my intention. Still though, I see how it might read that way, sorry for any confusion!

But anyway – if as per your last comment this is all really only your opinion then, unless you are the centre of the universe, I believe that you should treat the opinions of others with the same respect you have for your own. And that’s all.

And by the way I do consider the last comment quite civil. If you had disagreed with Dickey like that, I think there might have been a more productive discussion, which was my original point. Maybe I should have been more to the point :)

@carry – I don’t see myself as superior to anyone, I’m just hoping we might get some rational debate once in a while.

Peace and Hugs for everyone!!

Steve, I respect his own personal experience.
I don’t respect his opinion on abortion.
Some of the way he worded things was distasteful, insensitive and patronising.

Funnily enough, I think he’s less tolerant of others than I am.
I think women should have control over their own bodies. I don’t think abortion is murder or a bloody mess in a bucket. I don’t think a woman should be made bear a child from a rape if she doesn’t want to and this was the finding of the Irish supreme court in the X case.
As things stand, women have to skulk off aboard if they don’t want to continue a pregnancy from a rape, the same as with fatal fetal abnormalities.

No man has the right to tell any woman how they should feel in those circumstances. He might have a personal experience with a woman he knows.. That does not mean he can speak for anyone else.

Some opinions are just ludicrous Steve. The man is that clip should have been told shut up and sit down.

No woman has the right to tell any man how they should feel in those circumstances. She might have a personal experience with a man she knows. That does not mean she can speak for anyone else.

Some opinions are just ludicrous Artemis.

“Sure, ’tis simple….the bull mounts the cow against her will, by god, and she forgets all about it when she has her little calf. Yous all are daft hoors, cows be no different than women.”

Wisdom from the bog….

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