Banking Favourites gardai Law

Seanie Fitz Applies For Free Legal Aid

Seán Fitzpatrick, former CEO and Chairman of Anglo-Irish Bank has applied to have his defence costs paid by the State  after his recent acquittal in the Circuit Criminal Court, and guess what?  He’s right.

I hope Seánie Fitz gets his costs, because in doing so, he will have exposed the iniquity of a criminal justice system that penalises innocent people.  As anyone who reads this site regularly knows, I’m no flag-bearer for the people who ran the worst bank in history, but in this case, I think Fitzpatrick has a valid point.

If you’re arrested and charged with an offence, no matter how frivolous or malicious that charge might be (assuming, of course that an Garda Síochána would ever do anything so improper), you’ll be stuck with your legal costs even if you’re acquitted.  Unless, that is, you happen to be a useless lowlife with 87 previous convictions who never worked a day in your life.  In those circumstances, the State will be happy to provide you with a defence team free of charge, even if you’re subsequently convicted for the 88th time.

But if you’re an ordinary Joe who happens to fall foul of the system, no matter how innocent you are, you might find yourself faced with ruinous legal costs.  In Ireland, it’s not necessary to be guilty to be punished.  All you have to do is be charged and you will have a gigantic de facto fine imposed on you for the privilege of demonstrating your innocence.  You will have to  pay because you’re one of the people who work to earn a little money.

This is an everyday reality faced by people who are acquitted in court.  Despite being innocent, they have to find, somehow, the tens of thousands of euro it took to convince a court that the State had failed to prove its case.

That’s why I think Seanie Fitz should get his costs.  Not because I have any sympathy for him, but because he was acquitted and is therefore innocent.

And because I’d like to have my costs covered too, if the State should decide to charge me with a crime I didn’t commit.

Who’d have thought that Sean Fitzpatrick, of all people, would become the champion of the Squeezed Middle?




Anglo Chairman Sean Fitzpatrick Acquitted of All Charges in Maple 10 Trial

It’s good to see that the jurors showed moral courage as directed by the judge and acquitted Seán Fitzpatrick on all charges.  I’m now going to retract everything I ever said about the banks and the Irish economy.

None of the Irish banks did anything wrong.  There was no travelling roadshow of money going from bank to bank to fool the auditor.  Anglo lent money to the Maple Ten simply because it seemed like a great business idea at the time.  It had nothing at all to do with propping up the bank.  The financial regulator kept all the banks under close scrutiny and Anglo executives never ridiculed him in private.  They also don’t know the words to Deutschland Uber Alles.

The financial regulator was probably the best in the world.  The Irish bankers were probably the most efficient bankers the world has ever seen.  The government was absolutely right to indemnify their bondholders, especially since there was no collapse and no money was handed over.

Not only that, but Anglo and Irish Nationwide are fine, well-run banks that remain in business to this day.  There is no crisis, the Troika never visited Ireland and we have 100% employment.  Sean Quinn is still the richest man in the country and runs a thriving insurance company among many other enterprises.  Property continues to boom and developers continue to enjoy the fruits of their magnificent vision.

Oh, and Bertie Ahern is still Taoiseach.



Biffo and Seanie Go Golfing

Isn’t it a great little country when the chairman of a failed bank can meet up with the Prime Minister for dinner and a round of golf at Druid’s Glen and nobody mentions a word about the trouble the bank is in?  Two months before the government issues a country-destroying guarantee to cover the staggering losses run up by Fitzy and his pals, this banker meets the head of that same government.  They play some golf, enjoy a nice dinner, perhaps light up a cigar with a brandy and talk about …

Pop music?

It was a social occasion, protests Biffo.  No-one, it seems, mentioned a word about banks or money or anything.

A social occasion.

Imagine that.

Do Biffo and Seanie play much golf?  What are their shared interests?  Do they go to the movies together?  Are they avid stamp collectors?

Whatever they have in common, Fitzy certainly had no problem getting Biffo on the blower.  Only a few months previously, when Cowen was still finance minister, Seanie phoned him to talk about the disastrous state of Anglo shares and the looming Quinn screw-up.

I told him I’d refer it to the governor of the Central Bank, Biffo mumbled.

So how did the conversation go?  Hi Brian.  This is Seanie.  We must meet up for a game of golf some time, and a nice meal.

Howya Seanie.

Look Brian, the thing is this.  Anglo’s shares are goosed.  And that Quinn fellow is into us for billions.  The bank is going down the toilet unless you help us out.

I’ll tell Hurley.

That feckin gobshite!  Listen Brian, if we go down, so will half your party cronies.  I know where all the bodies are buried so you’d better front up here, fat boy.

I’ll think about it.

Lovely talking to ya Brian.  Se you in Druid’s Glen.  Byeee!

So we know that Fat-Boy was having phone conversations with Fitzy while Anglo was going tits up.  And we know that those conversations were about the imminent collapse of the bank.

Now, there are only two possibilities regarding the golf special.

Either Cowen is a gullible fool who believed all the horseshit Fitzy threw at him, in which case he wasn’t fit to be finance minister or prime minister, or else, he knew exactly where the disaster was going.

And if he knew that, why was he playing golf with the chief perpetrator?

And finally, I’d like to know who paid for the round of golf and the dinner and the cigars and whatever else Biffo and Mrs Biffo had that day.  Did Biffo put his hand in his own pocket or did Seanie Fitz pick up the tab?  And why would he do that?


European Bank Stress Tests

Stress tests?

Did someone say stress tests of banks?

Where did I hear that before?

Oh wait. Now I remember. Wasn’t it back in September 2008 when they were telling us about stress-testing the Irish banks?  What a success that was!

Now here they come again, using spurious terminology that they don’t understand, pretending to be doing something real and meaningful, adopting the language of science and engineering for something intangible, something based on lies, deceit and fear.

This is not a stress test of the banks. It’s just modelling. A stress test is something very real, hard and visible.

A stress test is something that finds out if the wing of your plane will break off or stay on.

A stress test is a way of seeing if that bridge will fall down or carry you safely across the water.

A stress test is a method of finding out if your submarine’s hull will collapse like a cheap Easter egg.

How is it done? Very simple. You pile more and more weight onto something until it breaks, and then you know how much punishment it can take. You do it again and again to make sure the first result wasn’t a fluke.

That’s stress testing, which is far more reassuring than all the mathematical predictions in the world. When you sit into the new Dreamliner, you can be sure that they confirmed the modelling and analysis by breaking things until they were satisfied with the strength of them.

That’s because the Airbus engineers know what they’re doing, unlike the bankers — the kind of people who lend spurious credibility to their dodgy number-juggling by misuse of solid industrial language.  The sort of people who call an insurance policy a product.

If anyone tries to persuade you that the Irish banks passed a stress test, tell them they’re talking nonsense.  The Irish banks passed no test, either in the abstract, theoretical world of financial modelling, or in real life.

The real stress test has already happened and we know how that went.

Economy Favourites

Dublin Docklands Development Authority and the Bertie Ahern Curse

Even though Bertie Ahern’s dig-outs were grubby, sordid, compromising and embarrassing, they weren’t the most disturbing thing about the worst prime minister in the history of our country.  That came during his now-famous interview with Brian Dobson on the main evening news, when he informed Dobson that he appointed people to the boards of State companies because they were his friends.

He didn’t appoint people to State boards on the basis of expertise, qualifications or experience.  No indeed.  Bertie put his pals in charge of your money and was quite happy to announce it to the nation on the six o’clock news because he saw absolutely nothing wrong with that way of doing business.

His friends – whatever a friend is in the grasping psyche of Bertie Ahern – got jobs controlling State money, hundreds of millions, billions, solely on the basis that they had been nice to Bertie one way or another.

I don’t know what Bertie would consider a friend, but I do believe that beneath the bonhomie and the backslapping joviality, there’s a cold, calculating personality fixated on one thing only: Bertie.  In my opinion, Bertie would have only one idea of what a friend is — somebody who has been useful to him in the past or who is likely to be useful in the future.

Everything else has to do with the personal insecurity that drove him to lie about his educational attainments and his professional qualifications.  I think he’s in awe of people who are richer, better connected or more powerful because at heart he’s still the ducking-and-dodging street-corner boy he always was.  A calculating little spiv who saw politics as the way to feather his own nest.

A man devoid of vision.

This is worth thinking about.  It’s worth pondering.  Our prime minister considered it appropriate to put people in charge of this country’s assets who might be incompetent, dishonest or in severe conflict of interest, if and only if they were members of his social circle.

Take it lads, and do whatever you want with it.  It’s only taxpayers’ money.

Where is the vision in that?  Where is the principle?

Thus we have the Dublin Docklands Development Authority which is now facing huge losses.

This organisation was given full powers as a planning authority, a huge budget and the autonomy to go out and redevelop the Dublin docklands.

Unfortunately, it was also given Seán Fitzpatrick and Lar Bradshaw, both directors of the disgraced Anglo-Irish Bank.  Seánie, as Bertie called him, was another friend.

There were eight State-appointed directors whose job it was to protect the State’s financial interests: Fitzpatrick, Bradshaw and six others.

  • Mary Moylan was a civil servant.
  • Declan McCourt was a director of Bank of Ireland.
  • Angela Cavendish worked for Alexsam Corporate Finance.
  • Donal Curtin, an accountant, was the husband of a senior Anglo executive, Anne O’Donoghue.
  • Niamh O’Sullivan was a director of Ove Arup, consulting engineers.
  • Joan O’Connor qualified as an architect but works exclusively in project management.  O’ Connor, who served on the DDDA board from 1997 to 2007 was the project manager for developer Seán Dunne’s Jurys-Berkeley Court project in Ballsbridge.  Dunne – or Dunners, as Bertie called him – later took a successful legal action against the DDDA to prevent it carrying out a development on Dublin’s north quays.

On the 24th October 2006, these eight agreed to embroil the DDDA in the biggest property deal ever done in Ireland : the purchase of the Irish Glass Bottle site in Ringsend.  The price was €412 million, and the owner was the Dublin Port company, chaired by Joe Bourke, another friend Bertie had appointed.  The site was leased to Paul Coulson whose company would ultimately make over €270 million from the deal.  Fitzpatrick and Bradshaw had a business relationship with Coulson as members of a syndicate that had bought property elsewhere in Dublin.

A company called Becbay had been set up to develop the IGB site and DDDA was to take a 26% stake in the venture.

When it emerged that his bank would be partially funding the deal, McCourt withdrew from the discussion.  The two Anglo directors had no such qualms and declared that they would simply stay out of their bank’s decision-making process on this deal.

Nobody seemed to think it strange that two people whose bank would be putting up the money should be part of this decision.  The civil servant didn’t walk out of the meeting, and her political bosses seemed happy enough with the decision.  Later that very same day, Brian Cowen, as minister for finance, personally approved an increase in the DDDA’s borrowing limits to buy a  share of the site.  For a man of Cowen’s turgid and ponderous nature, this was an action of extraordinary alacrity.  It seems almost as baffling as his later insistence on including Anglo in the bank bailout contrary to all the expert advice available to him – a decision that now threatens to sink the Irish economy.

The deal went through, but the property market went sour and the State lost a fortune, currently in the order of €90 million.  The DDDA’s total deficit last year was over €200 million.

Here’s cronyism at its most naked, with the worst banker in the history of the  State put in place by the worst prime minister and neither of them caring in the slightest what the ultimate cost to the taxpayer might be.

The DDDA debacle was only one instance of political patronage.  Multiply this sort of chicanery by the two years Ahern was finance minister and the ten years he was prime minister.  Work out how much damage a cynical, grasping, unprincipled clod could do in all that time and you have some idea why Ireland is in its current state.


Mapping the Golden Circle

More Bertie on Bock


Lenihan Open To Idea of Winding Down Anglo


All of a sudden, Lenihan is open to the idea of closing Anglo?

Sorry.  Hold on a minute.  How recently was he telling us that we’d have to produce €70 billion up front?

Oh wait.  Now I remember.  It was the 30th March.  Less than a month ago Lenihan told us the sky would fall in if we allowed Seanie’s filthy edifice to collapse.  Here’s exactly what he told the Dáil:

Winding up the bank is not and has never been a viable option. As the bank’s new management and board have estimated, an immediate wind up would lead to a fire sale of assets resulting in a permanent additional and unnecessary loss of upwards of €30 billion. In addition, the State would have to provide, immediately and up-front, the large sum of €70 billion to meet the deposits, bondholders and liabilities due to the Eurosystem.

Following that, the scare tactics began and we had a troop of zombies telling us what a disaster it would be to close Anglo.

Éamon Ryan, the world’s stupidest minister, solemnly informed the nation that we’d be kicked out of the Eurozone if we tried to wind it up.

Here’s what the fool said on Saturday View:

It would be so nice if we could say we’ll let it go and that will be the end of that. The reality is … and that’s kind of Fine Gael’s position and what Labour seems to be saying. There are .. That means that we have to go and effectively say to the European Central Bank, who has a lot of money in deposit in Anglo, and say sorry we can’t pay you back. Now the European Central Bank, it hasn’t allowed a bank fail across Europe. So we would probably then have to leave the Euro. Now the risk of that, in terms of the tens of thousands of jobs that could leave this country because they’d say well Ireland is a riskier country to do business in, we don’t really want to do business there. That is what you’re talking about. So, it’s not easy, it’s not palatable but that’s the choice you’re faced with.

North Dublin TD, Darragh O’Brien, who once worked as a financial services spiv, parrotted the same mantra.  Not a viable option.

Both of these men sneered at Brian Lucey, as did Alan Dukes, who is not a fool,  when Lucey set out a detailed strategy for closing Anglo without costing the taxpayer an even greater fortune.

According to Lenihan in his Dáil speech,

…  a longer term wind down is not in the taxpayers’ interest. The new management has provided me with figures, assessed by independent financial advisers, indicating that in addition to the capital losses that would be sustained, a long-term wind down of the bank over ten years could expose the State to funding obligations approaching €30 billion.

Dukes at least had the integrity to admit that there was no obvious limit to the amount of funds we’d have to pump into Anglo if we wanted to keep it alive.

Well, whoop-dee-doo!

I have been saying ever since that it was all lies, and now, guess what?  The people who said Anglo could be closed weren’t such nutcases after all.

How did everything turn around in less than a month?

Would it have anything to do with the fact that Greece is going down the toilet, pulling us with it, and the German money people don’t give a flying shit what dirty little secrets about politicians are hiding inside the Anglo filing cabinets, or scrawled on the back of Fingleton’s cigarette boxes?

Maybe someone told him it wasn’t on to be spending as much saving Fitz’s scam as it cost to bail out the entire Greek economy.


Previously on Bock:

Nama Losses – Bankers Lied to Minister

What is the Anglo Secret?

How Do You Feel About Giving €2000 Every Year For The Rest of Your Life To Anglo-Irish Bank?

Banks, Insurance Companies, NAMA and Bail-outs


The Wisdom of Seánie Fitzpatrick

Seánie Fitzpatrick addressed Experian‘s annual business lunch on the 21st June, 2007.

Here are a few things Seánie told his audience, and before you accuse me of making it up, I’m telling you now, every word of this is as he said it.

  • You can’t keep good people down forever.  Look around the world and you’ll find Irish emigrant stock at the very top of social, civic, commercial and political life. What happened over the past ten years or so was that this potential was unleashed at home here in Ireland rather than overseas. The Irish economy began to benefit from the innate business sense and entrepreneurship of its people.
  • All the politicians did was stand aside and let it happen.  After years of meddling they finally stood aside and allowed the people to get on with it. Taxes were cut and the economy was allowed to open up and the effect was like putting a flower out in the sun. The economy blossomed.
  • Having developed this marvellous entrepreneurial culture which is delivering so many benefits in terms of employment and wealth to the country we must ask ourselves if there is now a danger that our regulatory environment has gone too far? Are we starting to shackle instead of encourage the entrepreneurs who in turn generate more wealth not just for themselves, but for the country as a whole.
  • Among the more insidious and I believe iniquitous aspects of the current regulatory environment is its apparent presumption of guilt on the part of entrepreneurs and businesspeople generally. The whole structure seems to be geared towards an annual proof of innocence statement. This is corporate McCarthyism and we shouldn’t tolerate it.
  • It is time to shout stop. The tide of regulation has gone far enough. We should be proud of our success, not suspicious of it. Our wealth creators should be rewarded and admired not subjected to levels of scrutiny which convicted criminals would rightly find intrusive.

How about that?


How Do You Feel About Giving €2000 Every Year For The Rest of Your Life To Anglo-Irish Bank?

I’ll simply repeat the headline here.

How do you feel about giving €2,000 every year for the rest of your life to Anglo-Irish Bank?

That’s it.  I have no more to ask.


The Anglo One Are Innocent

The Anglo One sit hunched in their foul dungeon with nothing to eat but rat droppings, burning bank shares for warmth and to keep their sanity, reciting from memory old interviews with Marian Finucane.

What is to become of us? they whisper, but no-one listens, for the mob is ahowl and the tumbrels groan on the cobbblestones.

It is the best of times.  It is the worst of times.

It is time for sweaty nightcaps.

It is time for all good men to hold their tongues.

It is time.

In the distance, a dog howls, a blade thuds and a urprised head falls into the basket, blinking.  Its wig falls on the green.

The old crones knit.

But we are innocent, protest the Anglo One.

It matters not a sous to the toothless jailer.  He laughs and scratches his crotch.

Bah! he says.

And yet, there is hope.

One man will not stand by and see these brave Anglo One go to their doom undefended.

Lawyers and scribes who once ate their fill at the banqueting tables of the Anglo One, now eschew and contemn them, but there is one, versed in ways of the old law, who will soon return from his painful Portuguese exile, and he, if none other,  will defend the noble Anglo One.

That man, mark ye well his name, is Michael Lynn and he comes with all haste to fight this reign of terror.

He may die in the fight, but fight he will, and the noble Anglo One will walk free, though he may stand on the gallows in their stead.

He may well perish, but it is a far, far better thing he does than he has ever done.


Stealing Your Future To Pay The Banks — The NAMA Lies Exposed

I didn’t write this post.  It was lifted directly from a thread on the Property Pin, because I believe it needs to be shown to anyone with the wit to see what’s being done in Ireland.

Here is the answer to every piece of spin, flim-flam and bullshit thrown at you by every political clown and banking snake-oil salesman.

This is the truth behind Brian Lenihan’s theft of your children’s future.

Be angry.


We are all to blame, we are all to responsible, we all had our heads in the trough

2,000 individual loans make up the 77billion in toxic bad loans the tax payer is taking on.
150 individuals are responsible for 50 billion of the toxic bad loans the tax payer is taking on.
32 Billion of the bank bailout is belonging to just two banks , chaired by two individuals who have since retired Michael Fingleton and Sean Fitzpatrick
There are just over 160 Members of Dail Eireann
There are 84 TDs in Government FF,Green,Independents
There are 81 TDs in Opposition

We have reached the Bottom (I) – Brian Lenihan

He provides no report, countrywide analysis or figures to prove this, it is simply a soundbyte.
If we have hit the bottom then where are the buyers flooding the market.
Just as you cant call the top until after the fact, one cant call the bottom either
He is basing this on the rental yields on commercial property in Dublin, which is a small part, of one market in one city in Ireland, Theres no evidence we have reached bottom in Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Nenagh, Thurles, Cahir Borrisonossory, Clifden, etc.
Theres no evidence we have reached bottom in residential property, no evidence we have reached bottom in development land.
Some estate agent commentators still feel we have another 20% to fall.
And by all international standard house prices in Ireland are still over priced.

We have reached the bottom. (II)

The governments own adviser contradicts this
ALAN AHEARNE (Economist )Tuesday, September 16, 2008 Irish Times
Two conditions are necessary for a revival in exports: a rebound in economic activity abroad and a substantial improvement in cost competitiveness at home AA Income tax rates will need to rise.
This projected path for economic activity looks implausible. Weak incoming data, a deteriorating outlook for growth abroad and the scale of adjustment in the housing market that has still to take place point to significant contractions in GDP both this year and next. The economy may stabilise in 2010 as the drag from new homebuilding fades, but we will probably have to wait until 2011 for a rebound to strong growth

House Prices have reached Bottom (III)

Again the governments own adviser contradicts this and says we wont hit bottom until 2011
ALAN AHEARNE (Economist )
The international experience of housing booms and busts shows that real (that is, inflation-adjusted) house prices typically decline for nearly five years following the peak. Real house prices peaked in Ireland in the fourth quarter of 2006. Typically, house prices give up almost all of the gains recorded in the five years before the peak. That translates into a drop in real house prices here of about one third by 2011.

4-5 Years for Recessions and property crashes to run their course.

The government is spinning that the property crash and recession has bottomed out as they only run 4-5 years.
The average length of recent recessions has been 6 years as per a recent Goldman Sachs report.
As this is an average who is to say the length of the recession in Ireland will not be at the extreme of this range.
If peak of the boom was late 2006. we have until late 2011 minimum, best case , late 2012 according to Goldman Sachs and sometime past late 2013 if we are on the wrong side of the average. Again BL still claims we have hit bottom.
If the recession has not run its course and could have legs fro a few more years how can the property market have already bottomed out.

If NAMA hasn’t turned a profit or broke even in 10 years, it means the country/economy hasn’t recovered and so NAMA is the least of our worries.

If the country hasn’t recoverd NAMA and the bonds issued will still be an issue and have to be paid off.
And most likely NAMA, and the massive debt it has put on the country will be part of the reason why the country hasn’t recovered.

No cost to the tax payer

All government bonds are paid for by the Tax payer.
The tax payer is already hit with levies and increased taxes to fund current borrowing which is set to increase.
The tax payer is already hit with levies and increased taxes to fund the extra borrowing required to pay for the 7 billion already given to the banks.
The tax payer is already hit with levies and increased taxes to fund the extra interest rate on our current borrowing we are being charged on the international markets because the country is in such turmoil.
Outside of NAMA our borrowing is still increasing, all of which will cost the taxpayer.
Bank of Ireland has already received 3Billion Anglo 4 Billion.

Interest on bonds issued is only 1.5%.

This is a variable Interest rate. The interest rate will be reset every 6 months and is based on ECB rates. So if ECB rates rise so too will the NAMA bond rates.
If ECB interest rates were to hit 4%, that would mean an extra 2 Billion in interest payments we would have to make to the BANKS who we gave the bonds to for their bad loans .
Experts have said long term ECB interest rates are forecast to increase and could be 3% in the medium to long term

We already own Anglo so the purchase of its loans can be ignored as its one hand of the Govt. paying another hand of the Govt.

We have nationalized Anglo but we also pumped 4 Billion euro into it. 4 Billion Euro diverted from other parts of the state, 4 billion we ultimately had to borrow, 4 Billion we still have to pay back, 4 Billion we are paying interest on.

The 7 Billion Premium paid on the current market value was required to get the banks on board.

There is no evidence to suggest the banks would not have taken a smaller premium or even none at all.
The market has responded, 30% jump in bank shares , it was the steal of the century and the banks and the markets know that.

All we need is a 10% jump in property prices for NAMA to work.

Its more like a 15% jump that would be required for NAMA to break even.
We are still in a falling market, if we fall for another year or two, then we may require a 18,20,25+% jump from that point to get us back to breaking even.
Plus its all pre-supposses we are at the bottom, but what if we are not and lots of international experts say we are not.

House Prices will increase and bring NAMA with it.

The ESRI and IMF have already forecast negative growth for next year. How are we going to get rising house prices in a falling contracting economy.

The NAMA model will recapitalize the bank

Because the government have not released figures its not apparent this will in fact work.
This will not solve all banks issues they still hav to raise funding on the international markets. ‘The Economist’
In fact AIB have already said they will need to go to International markets for further funding of 2 Billion.

We have reached bottom, the economy will turn around and grow, house prices will increase (10%) all to the benefit of NAMA

To improve our competitiveness in a tougher global market we need prices in Ireland to fall more.
To improve Irelands competitiveness we needs costs, salarys, Govt spending , all to go down.
To keep the jobs we have we needs costs, salarys, Govt spending , all to go down.
All this will produce the opposite of rising house prices, it produces falling house prices, people have less money for a house.
Irelands economic recovery and NAMA breaking even are diametrically opposed.

The Long Term Economic Value of the bad loans NAMA is taking represents a good investment

The govt seems to have based this statement on the rental yields in Dublin which is a just one commercial segment of the market, worth approx €8bn.
NAMA’s entire estimation of long-term value hinges on rents holding constant in this subset (Dublin) of a subset (commercial projects) of a subset (projects underway) of a subset (Ireland) of the total loan book.

The ECB is backing this plan and giving the Government or banks this money to buy the NAMA bonds

The ECB does not buy Government bonds. The banks are using the bonds as collateral to go to the ECB and say we have Govt bonds therefore the ECB will lend to them.
The extent of the ECB guarantee only goes so far as it sets interest rates but the ECB has given no indication it will not raise ECB rates in he medium term, thereby making NAMA a much more expensive solution.
But at no time does the ECB take the bonds, the banks are left with the and could in fact sell them on the open market therby competing with our own NTMA bonds.

Government NAMA 54Billion versus Regular NTMA Govt Bonds

The government has given no analysis of what the impact the NAMA bonds will have on the regular NTMA bonds that the government will also be issuing in the coming years to fund our day to day expenses.
There is nothing in NAMA legislation to say what the banks have todo with the NAMA bonds.
There is nothing in the NAMA legislation to stop the banks from selling NAMA bonds on the open market and therefore competing with NTMA bonds .

Fianna Fail will take the hard decisions.

FF has a proven track record of letting the bankers and civil servants get off very lightly, golden parachutes etc…
FF has a track record during the boom of not taking the hard decisions.
FF has a proven record of giving every tax break possible to developers, stock market speculators, and builders
FF has a proven record of making very very bad regulatory decisions which got us into this mess.

Dublin Yields at an all time high and this suggests property values are bottoming out Brian Lenihan

There is a law in this country that says commercial rents cannot be marked down. Many rents/yields are high only because the current tenant is not allowed by law to renegotiate the rent and get it lower. A new law allows for future leases not existing leases to have downward revisions.
The State is also propping up rental yields, paying 60m per year.
The Govt looking for lower rents and saving tax payers money is diametrically opposed to NAMA keeping rent high.
40% of commercial property is currently empty in some parts of Dublin.
Look around the city the place is awash with offices for rent

The IMF backs the NAMA model

IMF 2008 report has stated government backed asset management agencys do not work due to political and legal entanglements

NAMA will get credit flowing

There is nothing in the NAMA legislation to FORCE Banks to start lending to ordinary people and SMEs
There is no evidence credit has started flowing yet in the UK and the US after their massive bailouts , in fact credit indexes are showing that credit is actually contracting .

Current Market Value is 47Billion

Based on the opinions of many vested interests who have advised the Govt.
Based on the assumption theres is a market for these properties, but there is no evidence a market exists , if no market exists much of this property and land is actually worthless.
Also based on the assumption we have hit bottom.
This figure is pulled from the air. The Govt provides no figures or reports to back this claim up.
Market value assumptions seem to be just based on rent and yields in just the Dublin, which is a very vague amount.
If current market value is 47 Billion then why don’t the banks just sell the stuff for 47 Billion and they wouldn’t need any tax payer money.

GOVT open to other parties contributions

Bank chiefs have worn out the rug going in and out to government building meeting with their friends in the Govt.
Bank chiefs were summoned to Leinster house in the days before NAMA at a time when other Govt parties were not allowed access to any of the details even though those parties promised non-disclosure of any info they were allowed to see.

We do not have time to debate this further its time to implement this plan to save the country.

The government just spent the last 6 weeks on holidays , there is plenty time to debate and amend this legislation.

FF Spin, all the other alternatives would not work and would cost more

Many commentators , including Nobel laureates have stated other alternatives proposed by the opposition parties including temporary nationalization would not only be cheaper, less risky and also implement faster to get credit flowing.
Many economists have said other alternatives are better.

The Government is not doing any favours for its banking buddies.

Prior to the nationalization of Anglo, civil servants in the Dept. Of Finance had prepared a proposal to nationalize Anglo and wind it down.
The minister went against this and instead issued a blanket guarantee for Anglo.
Anglo Irish Bank was kept alive for 3 months after the Govt guarantee during which time significant bonuses were paid before it was nationalized.
The two chairmen of the Anglo and Irish Nationawide have been allowed walk away with massive payouts and pensions even though the tax payer is now buying bad loans from their banks for more than 30 Billion Suro.

Government is extracting retribution from the banks

The Government didn’t enforce pay restraint on the banks when they had them over a barrel before writing the guarantee, nor
has they taken this opportunity now when we have a chance regarding the premium and is actually paying over the odds
There is nothing in the NAMA legislation to control the executive pay or bonus culture at the banks which we are bailing out.

This is not a bank bailout

Not worthy of a rebuttal, complete utter BS

The Government will pursue Developers for full repayment of loans & Govt does not believe developers assets are being hidden

The is lots of documentary evidence, historical incidents to indicate most developers have already pocketed large reserves of cash and holdings off shore or transferred assetss to other family members or entities to evade Government acquisition.
For gods sake they do this during the boom time , of course they would be doing this during a downturn.
The government have not costed how much it will cost to pursue these assests.

The Government has been open and transparent

Dated subordinated debt was guaranteed by the govt, in its blanket bank guarantee, with no explanation .
Why was this done, this type of debt is taken on with a risk, the investor knows theres a risk, yet the govt gave a guarantee .

The FF Government has already implemented overhaul of the banking industry

Over 80% of Irish Banks board members have been in place since before 2008 .
There has been NO clearout of Irish Banks

There will be transpareny and legislation to prevent non-political interference

Multiple sections of the NAMA legislation is to be at the direct discretion and exclusively by The Minister of Finance.

NAMA will not need much staffing as the banks will continue to manage the loans

Huge legal issues exist here here as well as conflict of interest for bank employees in managing loans belonging to another institution ie. NAMA
Govt has admiteted recently it gave Rody Molloy 1.4 million so that he would not drag the state down the Four courts.
Think what 2000 Developers who are not happy with a valuation could cost the state in legal fees and time.
Rememebr the tribunals some of which are still stuck in legalese.

FF says other proposals involve TOTAL banking nationalisation
Many proposals inclunding Labours proposes temporary nationalization of the two main high street banks.

FF Says wholesale nationalisation of banks should be prevented at all costs as international markets will not lend to state owned banks

There is no evidence of this , and in fact lots of state owned banks do borrow on the international markets

We must avoid further Nationalisation at all costs

Many coutries have already nationalized large financial entities. Or taken much larger shareholding in the banks it did bailout. We have taken a paltry 25% in the banks we have bailed out.

NAMA is akin to the much vaunted Swedish model.

NAMA is not like the Swedish Model. In the Swedish model there was much more temporary nationalisation
There was much more punitive measures in the legislation
There was a wholesale clearout of its banking executives.

The Govt, FF and Green Party says Irelands woes were caused by the collapse of Lehman brothers.

If you need this explained as to why it is totally bullshit bogus spin then you shouldn’t be reading this .

Green Party party claim they have a proud record of standing up to vested interests.

see item above

FF says it is taking every measure to prevent this form of financial corruption and financial irresponsibility from happening again.

They and other politicians have said this many times before , remember Ansbacher , off shore accounts, DIRT retention, bank over-charging etc…
There is no evidence to support this in fact the evidence indicates the oppossite

There is no method to stop NAMA from going through.

The president has an alternative. Let the people decide for themselves, the constitution provides for the President referring the NAMA bill to a referendum, it being an issue of National importance

Current trading in Irish bank shares is small scale investors and purely speculative
Ireland’s Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said trading in Irish banking shares is akin to a “bookie’s office operation” at the moment.
“The value of trading of these shares at this level is highly speculative,” Lenihan said in an interview with RTE radio today. “There has been very little institutional dealing in Irish bank shares.”
Lots of Bloc trades have been issued in recent days, some massive volumes including trades of 1.5m shares in one lot, and the vast majority were trades of blocs of 10k and over. Sure Lenny loads of grannies and day trading students.

This is a good deal for the TaxPayer

AIB and BOI have skyrocketed recently because the markets, stock brokers and investors know this is a great deal for the banks.

The NAMA haircut is between 35-40%

This may be the average but the bulk of the haircut is on Anglos loan book, the state already owns Anglo. Therefor its onw state body paying another state body. The real focus is what he other non-nationalised banks are gtting.
The haircut the other banks have had to take is very small given how toxic their loans were, in fact for AIB and BOI its 20% or lower.

The NAMA Haircut of 35-40% (20% for BOI and AIB) was a good deal

Recently in the high court case involving Zoe and ACC/Rabobank it was accepted by both parties that the haircut on some property loans was in the region of 70-75%.
Recent receiver fire sales of properties have documented falls of over 60% as shown on a Primetime Special
20% haircut for AIB and BOI is not a good deal,

NAMA will Redevelop some Hotel properties

Estimates are huge amounts of finished and unfinished hotel projects will come into NAMAs
Currently the Irish hotel industry is in its worst state ever. There is no need for one more hotel room in Ireland
The return on hotel investment is very low, we have over capacity in hotels.

25% Value of loans been taken over by NAMA were covered.

Its an acknowledged fact many developers used other properties as collateral for loans. This collateral is now worthless.
Many developers used other loans to finance larger loans… ie Borrow 1 million from one bank to get 10 million from another.
Many solicitors and developers have been found to have multiple mortgages taken out on the same properties, again worthless loans.

NAMA will Redevelop housing projects over the long term

There is no evidence to suggest we have ashortage of housing or will have a shortage of housing in the coming years.
In fact we will have net Emigration next year.
Waterford has 4,000 houses for sale
The Midlands is plagued with over supply and overzoning

International commentators are stating NAMA is the best model.

The main people saying NAMA is a good deal are DAVY, Bloxham, stockbrokers, AIB,BOI, and also the ex heads of these banks.
These are the main voices saying NAMA is a good deal. The same voices who got us into this mess.

The taxpayer is protected if NAMA does not work out

There is no specific levy in this legislation should there be a downside for the taxpayer. There is only a provision for the Minister to ask for one if he decides at a future date we require one. That’s not protection for the taxpayer.
Real protection for the taxpayer would involve explicitly placing a levy in the legislation

We have to do our patriotic duty and swallow this biter pill

Why did the government not ask the banks chiefs and FAS chairman who retired to do their patirotic duty and walk away from their pension pots and golden parachutes.

The ECONOMIST Magazine Thinks the NAMA plan is a good plan

“The Economist has welcomed it in the sense that its finally doing something but they have also clearly stated who they see as benefiting best from NAMA and it isn’t the Tax payer. “
The government seems to have erred on the side of favouring shareholders, largely to minimise the amount of capital it would have to inject into the banks.
“The trouble is that the banks have run up such large losses that it will be lucky to achieve even two of its three objectives”

The Financial Timess Thinks the NAMA plan is a good plan

They have given a guarded welcome to the plan and only in the sense that the banks and markets have responded in a positive manner to the plan. The FT has not stated this is a good deal for the country or the tax payer.
“Property loans are only one problem facing Ireland’s recession-bound lenders”

NAMA will get development value out of the properties it is taking on

(The full breakdown is: land (36%), development (28%) and associated loans (36%), we have €21bn, or more than half accounted for, by land
This is the very same land that we have heard has been devalued by anything up to 95% from the peak, due to the probability of a good deal of land being rezoned to agricultural. It’s reasonable to assume that this land splits down in some way between that which probably will be developed (and which has presumably fallen in value by 50%), and that which probably won’t (likely down 90%).

NAMA Legislation will protect the NAMA agency form political interference.

Much of the NAMA legislation is very vague and allows for lots of decisions to be made at the exclusive whim of the Minister for Finance .
NAMA is akin to the all empowering PATRIOT Act that Bush pushed thru in the US

The government has driven a hard bargain with the Banks

Interim director of NAMA Brendan McDonagh, said the number of loans the banks had earmarked for NAMA had increased significantly since the draft bill was published because banks had reassessed their books.
In two weeks, after the draft legislation the number of loans the banks wished to pass to the tax payer rose from 18,000 to 21,500.

Popular Media are behind NAMA

The popular Irish Media, broadsheets and television got it drastically wrong during the boom equally these same entities and same persons in many cases will get it drastically wrong on this matter.

AIB BOI Bank Shares are up …we should celebrate

A few years back when bank shares were hitting 18 euro the media thought that was good for the country too, long term it has been PROVEN to be a false economy and of no long term benefit to the nation as a whole.

Trust FF and the government on NAMA

FF and the governemtn have gotten so many decisions, agencys , policys wrong they have a proven track record of ineptitude, incompetence and corruption over and over again.. This is another example
PPARS, e-Voting, FAS, Thornton hall, Section 23 hotel breaks, ministers expenses, rezoning, tribunals…etc etc

Not a gamble..

Yes it is a gamble

The ECB have not had historical high interest rates

Yes the ECB has had high interest rates and is forecast to have so in the medium to long term future
The government has given no analysis of the impact rising ECB interest rates will have on the cost of NAMA

NAMA will Manage property prices without political interference

The state will become the largest property developer in the state and possibly the world. It will want prices to rise not fall and we all know that rising prices are not good .
The IMF recommends Governments do not artificially prop up house process, which is exactly what NAMA will have todo for it to work.

The NAMA Model is the cheapest bailout guarantee in the world

Taken on a per head of population basis NAMA and the billions we have already put into the banks means NAMA is not the cheapest bailout , in fact its working out more expenseive than the US and UK Model.
And in the US and the UK they have taken larger (75-100%) ownership of some of the financial institutions they have bailed out.