Anglo and Irish Nationwide To Be Wound Up

Now that FF are out of power, everything is possible

Look at this.

The deposit books of Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide are to be sold off to the highest bidder, just like I said they could back in August when Lenihan was still telling us such a thing was impossible.

Here we have the final confirmation that it was never necessary to pump billions into Anglo.  The depositors are safe  They’ll be taken over by another bank — Santander or somebody like that.  It was always going to be possible to shift the deposit book, and therefore Lenihan’s scare tactics of warning about a run on the banks was never anything but a puff of smoke.  It’s in the blood.  Same bullshitting family, different generation.

Meanwhile, your €30 billion has gone to pay off the debts run up by Seanie Fitz and Fingers Fingleton.  It has gone to make sure that the international investors who foolishly put money into the two scams don’t have to carry the consequences of their own ineptitude.

Thirty billion euros of debt on the heads of the Irish people to pay off losses caused by defaulting property developers who were lent money by bankers without an ounce of care as to whether it was prudent to do so.

Suddenly it becomes your problem, and suddenly you take the hit in your pay packet.

Now draw the connection.  Forget nurses and roadworkers and teachers and policemen.  This is where your money is going: straight into the accounts of the huge investment corporations who advanced the cash to Anglo and Irish Nationwide, in the belief that they were taking a commercial risk.

Not so.   The laws of capitalism has been suspended for these folks.  There is no risk, only profit, paid for by Irish workers.

So the next time you hear about a cut in pre-natal care, or a reduction in special needs assistants, or an increase in income tax, remind yourself why.   It’s because Seanie Fitz and Fingers Fingleton borrowed a huge amount of money, lost it and got rescued by the Irish government — Fianna Fáil — taking money out of your pocket to do so.


What secrets rest within the walls of those two rotten money-shops?  Who do Seanie and Fingers hold embarrassing paper on that a government would be willing to bankrupt the country to protect them?  Why would a party which has been in existence almost as long as the state commmit treason?

There must be some mighty embarrassing names in those loan-books, and some mighty interesting transactions.

Perhaps we’ll find out soon, or perhaps we won’t.   Who knows?

Meanwhile, Alan Dukes has been taken to task for pointing out that the banks will require another €15 billion in rescue money, but I think people are attacking him unfairly.  Dukes doesn’t seem to be saying that the government should hand over this money.   He seems to be saying that Ireland can’t carry these losses on its own, as we all know, and that the Irish banking problem is part of a much bigger, Europe-wide problem.  The Wall Street Journal seems to agree that the bondholders need to be part of the solution, and quotes the example of Kazakhstan which, unlike Ireland, immediately got the creditors involved in a solution to its banking crisis.

Decoding Dukes’s statement, I think he’s preparing the ground for an organised default with the blessing of the ECB.   Or to put it another way, burning the bondholders.

Which is as it should be.  They took the risks, and they should take the consequences when things go wrong.

I didn’t lend the money that Anglo lost and neither did you.  Why should we and our children make up the losses?


More on Anglo

More on banking


Stiffing the Anglo Bondholders — A Short Explanation

Banks, Bondholders and Bastards

What is the Anglo Secret?

20 thoughts on “Anglo and Irish Nationwide To Be Wound Up

  1. Well Brian Lucey said on the radio that we couldn’t burn the senior bondholders at this stage (should have done it earlier he says) as the rest of Europe would follow and then where would we be? Better off I reckon.

  2. We can make them sit down and agree a workable solution that involves them taking some of the pain. It’s the only way forward, and there are signs that Europe and the IMF are beginning to recognise this.

  3. Surely FF should never see Government again in this country. Perhaps now Micheál Martin could explain just why FF couldn’t do this. Amazing what can be done when the Taoiseachs bollix aren’t in a vice grip.

  4. Apart from the entire scam, What I believe will unfold this year and next year is that Ireland will become carrion debt upon which the vultures of foreign banks and financial institutions will feast.

    As Anglo and Irish Nationwide go in that direction, AIB and BOI will sell the debts, There will be little or no negotiations and those who are trying to be responsible and sevice their debt both business and personal, Within their limited means will find the ” Customer Care ” response of Banks will be a thing of the past as they will be refused negotiation and offered ” Bad Debt ” status.

    Bad debt status will be worth more to the Banks, The debt will be sold and some foreign bank will demand payment on their imposed terms.
    It will be the end of Democracy in any shape or form , The detriment of Ireland wil be entirely down to actions of Banks and to us for letting them do it.

  5. Yes Bock, and Angela Merkel started that ball rolling and David McWilliams has pointed out that Denmark has burned its bondolders. But i find it odd that there seems to be many native economists with easy access to the media suggesting that nothing should be done about it or we’d scare the markets even though according to some foreign analysts they would prefer if we did make the bondholders share the pain.

    I found it disturbing when I read Gene Kerrigan’s article last week whereby €750million was given to bondholders not secured by the guarantee. You could buy two children’s hospitals with that. There is something very fishy going on.

  6. it is treason. If there aren’t any laws to send them to jail and throw away the key, let’s get laws that can stop bankers AND politicians. FF ad their mouldy friends have damaged the Ireland and its future more than Cromwell, etc. Let them burn.

  7. When is the next meeting with the IMF? March I think. Are any canditates prepared for negotiations? Enda was too chicken in my opinion to join in on the leaders’ debate.. how in god’s name is he going to be capable of dealing with the IMF if he can’t even deal with Vincent Browne? (I was watching Vincent tonight.. Alan Dukes was on. The only one that was making any sense on it to my mind was Constantin Gurdgiev of TCD)

    I was just reading this.. (trying to find when the next meeting with the IMF is)

    But I like this a lot in that article:
    How To Nego­ti­ate Haircuts
    The two oppo­si­tion par­ties expected to win the March 11 elec­tion and form the next coali­tion gov­ern­ment, Fine Gael and Labour, have pledged to reopen nego­ti­a­tions with the EU and IMF.

    I offer the fol­low­ing sug­ges­tions on how to negotiate.

    The cor­rect pro­ce­dure is to announce intent to default with a state­ment some­thing like “The Irish gov­ern­ment refuses to bailout UK, Ger­man, French, and US banks too stu­pid to real­ize that Ire­land was in the midst of a gigan­tic prop­erty bubble.”

    Now doubt EU, ECB, and IMF will offer to cut inter­est rates to 2% or some such num­ber, per­haps even 0%.

    The cor­rect response to that sort of non­sense should be “This is not be a ques­tion of inter­est rates. This is a ques­tion regard­ing prin­ci­pal and prin­ci­ples. In regards to the lat­ter, Irish tax­pay­ers can­not and will not make whole for­eign investors whole for their piss poor deci­sions. In regards to the for­mer, and as a ges­ture of good­will, we are pre­pared to offer 2 cents on the dol­lar for all debts owed.”

    That should set an appro­pri­ate tone for the “nego­ti­a­tions”. It will also send bond­hold­ers a very badly needed message.

    By the way, Constantin has a blog
    I’ll be reading it. This man is smart, smart.

  8. FME . No question CG is the smart economist as he unfailingly sticks to the facts, I do hope though that he sticks to economics and refrains from commentry on the Middle East as he appears to know very little other than the U.S. paranoic warblings.

    I’m fairly sure the next meeting with IMF for newly elected Government is march 25th which does mean they will be tested hard and fast, No good reason though why they have’nt already come up with a strong negotiating tactic.
    I would’nt agree though with the suggested advice for negotiating given in article above, That tactic only contains points which need to be made in a more concise manner but the negotiations have to be made on accurate figures and realistic predictions.

  9. No. 8 its appears clear to me that nothing will change as a result of all this the way things are shaping up. It’ll be FG/Lab this time and next time FF will be back. The only way FG/Lab will play hardball in Europe is if they have sufficient fear of SF growth in popularity through their hardline (or common sense depending on your viewpoint) attitude to EU/ECB/IMF. And the guys on the other side of the table will play ball too, as they won’t want to see a strong SF. People who are averse to SF should really consider voting tacticallly for them, the more votes they get the better deal the next government can renegotiate. I’m not attached to any party BTW, but this seems to be the smart option to me.

  10. EssoDee. Seeing as SF appear to be taking this hardline/common sense approach, Which from what im hearing seems to be effective, Although I dont believe them because they are not producing the facts to back up their policies, Is it tactical for them to have no candidate in Clare ? Whats your take on that ?

  11. Norma, the reason SF have no one running in Clare is because they cannot agree between themselves as usual. No other sinster reason than that.

  12. @ Yobbah
    With a (very) few exceptions, the Irish media has been part of the ‘smoke and mirrors’ scam for the past 2/3 years. Media such as the Financial Times, Economist etc. have been telling it lie it is for some time now. And, if you haven’t done so already, read Michael Lewis on Ireland in the current issue of Vanity Fair, a tremendous piece – factual, moving, and extremely well written

    You have a point about Gurdgiev, but I remember when he was a cheerleader for the property bubble – he certainly didn’t have the ‘cojones’ of David McWilliams or Morgan Kelly to call it like it was five years ago …

  13. Norma, my understanding of their position is that the current deal will cripple us, so there is no option but to renegotiate. The difference with the other parties I believe is that SF are outsiders who are more likely to drive a hard bargain, whereas FF actually told us that they withdrew the default option from the table when the other side went nuts – in other words they were afraid to upset their european masters. I believe FG and Labour would have acted similarly, and that it will take a strong and growing SF to worry the main parties enough into standing up for our interests. Hence a vote for SF will enable a better deal, even if SF are in opposition, which is strongly likely. I’m not sure what facts specifically you refer to, but there seems to be a lot of agreement among experts internationally that we cannot afford this deal. After that its a question of the getting the most out of negotiations. As for lack of Clare candidates, I’m not sure what you expect me to say to that, but obviously my post is relevant only to people who have an opportunity to vote for SF. BTW, the same applies to the united left and PPP, I think they would fulfil the same role as SF in this context.

  14. EssoDee. I am in 1000% agreement with you on renegotiation, I do believe though that none of the proposed parties are skilled at the task, It isnt about obvious hardline or steely exteriors , Really negotiating any deal is about resiliance, Knowing all the facts in triplicate, Not showing your hand, Keeping it cool and enforced and more importantly no unrealistic agenda, Talking about rates of 2% will make us a laughing stock.
    The key to negotiating is not to reveal what you will not do but to put forward what can be done , Based on the true figures and the amount of damage limitation which has to accompany those figures in order to remain liqid and functioning and as those precise figures seem to still remain in the ether of FF anyone approaching this task has their work cut out for them.
    To be realistic about March 25th, Enda or whoever needs to be looking for a team of very skilled negotiators and accept that not they not Labour, Not SF fall into this catogory.

    I was curious about SF and Clare because of the low calibre of candidate in that constituency, Although one young Independent stated he would pay 2 qualified graduates out of his own wages if he was elected, And a top level civil servant offering to spend his own money is very revolutionary.

  15. Norma, I have to disagree. I think whoever is in government will have access to the figures and advisers, the important thing is how far the other guy thinks you are willing to go. The ECB/EU/IMF didnt have to squawk too loud for FF to fold, but with SF they won’t be so sure – maybe they are not bluffing, they will think, maybe they’ll walk away and the whole currency will collapse. And maybe they would, but we won’t know that because SF won’t be in government, but if they have 15 seats in opposition rather than 5, then Labour and maybe even FG will be feeling the cold breeze on their necks, and may be forced to play it tough. If you have the opportunity to vote for any left candidate (I wouldn’t count Labour in this).

  16. Like we’re not already a laughing stock Norma. A factor in issuing the blanket bank guarantee and bowing down to the IMF/EU is I’m sure fear of how the markets perceive us. Did it make a difference to improve our standing? No. It hasn’t.
    So I frankly don’t care if we’re seen as a laughing stock with the sharks. That kind of thinking has got us where we are. Negotiate? The ball is in our court. I’m thinking people need to be dictating that the Irish nation is not for sale. You don’t want to be thinking compromise when you’re dealing with ruthlessness and I genuinely see that bailout – (Loan) from the IMF/EU as ruthless.
    Take it or leave it, is how I would want anyone to negotiate on our behalf.
    We can default. It’s an option that people are starting to voice. We need to seriously stop worrying about what others think of us and do what’s right for our own nation. Let’s hope Enda has some sort of a ball.

  17. FME. You are right, We are a laughing stock , I didnt mean that negotiation should be based on what others or sharks think, What I meant was that the negotiation has to be very effective and expecting to come out of that meeting with a figure of 2% int will make the negotiators appear naive and weaken their position.

    Im not at all convinced the ball is in our court and that is largely because The Irish Nation has not used its own voice effectivly.

    Im in agreement with you, Hardball has to be played but skillfully, Not the all guns blazin variety which will just further stereotype our lack of ability which has been displayed by those who brought us here.

  18. Agree with you Norma. We need knowledgeable, skillful people representing us.
    My point is even having the facts and figures doesn’t help if there isn’t a little courage. A few guns a blazin mightn’t be a bad thing now and then. :) Where’s that video Bock put up of your man from Del Monte. He says, ‘NO’ ! I don’t believe the Irish are completely docile either. I think it was a vanity fair article I was reading recently, that said something along the lines of, we’ll take it and take it, but eventually will snap.
    The kind of austerity that’s required to possibly keep the country afloat for a while will ruin us and people won’t tolerate it.

  19. Happy to hear that things are “progressing”, even if painfully. I guess you couldn’t have done what the Egyptians did, but it seems like what needs to get done is getting done nevertheless. I don’t have much to say, just that it seems like you all are well informed about and therefore qualified to discuss this. Good for you, Bock, that you saw the bank buyout as opposed to bailout scenario way back. Hope you all come out of this alive and kicking (well, at least alive!).

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