Brian Lenihan Dies

Former finance minister

Brian Lenihan has died.  As a man, I feel sympathy for him and for his family but I can’t pretend to have admired him as a politician.  He was the worst finance minister we ever had, although some would argue that Charlie McCreevy was even more inept.  He suffered from the same self-importance as his father, and the same foolish belief in his own infallibility that ultimately worked to the detriment of this country and its citizens.

He was directly responsible for the most disastrous financial decision ever made by a senior Irish government minister.

He served at cabinet in the two worst governments this country ever had: Ahern’s and Cowen’s.

As a person, Brian Lenihan might well have possessed many fine qualities, but the only ones that affected me were the qualities he brought to public life and I’m afraid none of them were good.

We have an old tradition in this country of speaking well of the dead.  I would like to say something positive about Brian Lenihan’s time as a cabinet minister but unfortunately I can think of nothing.

Regardless of that, we come to another question.  Why did Brian Cowen send a man who was terminally ill to negotiate on Ireland’s behalf during the IMF / EU bailout discussions?  Clearly, despite Lenihan’s considerable intellectual gifts, he was not in the sort of physical condition necessary to conduct challenging and confrontational negotiations.  This is understandable.  He was on a variety of aggressive drugs, and must also have been feeling tired due to his illness.

Therefore, he was unsuited to the task of defending the country’s very survival as a sovereign state, and in due course, predictably, he failed.

What we needed in those negotiations was a hard-nosed fighter, prepared to stay up all night and to issue all manner of blood-curdling threats about collapsing the Euro.  Instead, we had a sick and tired man who lacked the physical and mental endurance to stand his ground in the face of attack from European vested interests.  And so, in due course, the Irish capitulated, accepting the ludicrous terms of a supposed bailout that carried penal rates of interest.  And for what purpose?  To pay back the bad debts owed to the German and French banks who financed the deal.

How do we account for this monumental failure of Irish public policy?

In my opinion, there are two causes.  Lenihan’s own extraordinarily arrogant belief, in the face of evidence to the contrary, that he was the only man for the job.  And Cowen’s dithering, feeble-minded wilingness to pass the buck and send a profoundly sick man into a fight for survival on behalf of the country.

I’m afraid neither Lenihan’s good name nor Cowen’s  have survived this disgraceful misjudgement.

 

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Read all posts on Brian Lenihan here

156 thoughts on “Brian Lenihan Dies

  1. I respect your viewson not admiring Mr. Lenihan as a politican but I disagree with your analysis of him being the worst Finance Minister ever – remember what he inherited!

    More importantly, what I think of most is that he dedicated the significant part of his precious last eighteen months to the public cause over and above his family – this pains me when I consider what the other self serving bastards, in various walks of life, did during this time incluidng Seanie, Bertie, Fingers, McCreevy, etc.

    May he rest in peace.

  2. “He was dignified in dealing with his cancer?”

    What does that even mean??

    On a side note, I arrived into the canteen this morning to people staring into their coffee cups:
    “Did you hear Brian Lenihan is dead?” asked one.
    “The politician?” I offered.
    “Yep”.
    “You know something, I don’t feel the least bit upset about that” I said.
    “You’re right too”, mumbled another.

  3. I have to agree, the bank guarantee scheme sunk us. Reading the comments on breakingnews.ie it is hard to take. I do not wish death of anyone, but neither do I glorify them post-mortal coil for the simple fact they are no longer with us. It is certainly a tragedy to his family and friends. If you read the comments they are being moderated, most references I saw to outlining his political catastrophies garnered several thumbs down. It reeks of emperors new clothes, oh we’ve come a long way since our rage of 2 odd years ago. All the same a man died, it happens and it is tragic for all involved, but that’s not us.

  4. I am sorry to learn that Brian Lenihan has been killed by cancer. He should have died by firing squad.

  5. My sympathies to his family on their loss, but he put party before country and sank the country in a mire of debt. What a legacy. Meanwhile Bertie and Biffo wallow in selfsatisfaction and enormous pensions.

  6. The only sure thing in life is death and taxes. I wonder how many people that suffered and died prematurely due the mismanagement by the government that Lenihan was part of.

  7. Couldn’t agree more and the thing that really puzzles me is, if you are dying, and I think that was a given, why oh why would you give up the opportunity to spend those last few precious moments with the ones that mean the most to you, your Family? I couldn’t imagine anything that could be more important but does arrogance and ego supercede the love of family? He insisted on running for a Knackered Party and defending the other candidates despite their wrong doings with the Clock ticking, I for one, if I were his Wife and Kids, I’d be wondering where his true loyalties lay.

    To those Family members he has left behind, I offer my sympathies.

    Joe.

  8. The radio at least is taking the opportunity to issue repeated apologias for his time as Minister. It’s getting a bit hard to take really.

  9. When someone dies who was a total disaster as a human being ( A. Hitler ) comes to mind, there are others. People all over the world will say nice things about this disaster of a human being, why, because he is dead??!!

    Here in Ireland we suffer this all the more, when such a person is alive, he is villified, sneered at, cursed and like BoldPilot @ # 7 people will want him shot. As soon as this disaster of a human being dies it`s like we have landed on a different planet. This morning when i heard that Brian Lendahand had died i said out loud, ” It`s a pity he did not die before he fucked us all up”. The shocked reactions of people around me was so very comical to see. The very same people had wanted his blood and his families blood a few weeks ago. Now he is St. Lendahand, i was saying a bad thing about a poor soul that had died.

    Fuck him, i hope he fucking died roaring.

  10. What did I mean by that ??
    I thought that he could have milked the cancer angle for sympathy and he didn’t.
    That’s it.

  11. Boldpilot.. “I am sorry to learn that Brian Lenihan has been killed by cancer. He should have died by firing squad.” That was mean!

    RIP.

  12. Look for a Khruschev style ‘rehabilitation’ in a few years when FF Nua sweep into power on a tide of amnesia and apathy.

    His decisions ossified the beggaring of Ireland. May he reach ambient temperature at exactly the sate rate as every other corpse.

  13. I respect your viewson not admiring Mr. Lenihan as a politican but I disagree with your analysis of him being the worst Finance Minister ever – remember what he inherited!
    Dan, he did not inherit anything, he was a senior member of the governments that caused the mess. You make it sound like he walked in off the street to the job.
    May he rest in peace

  14. I agree the media canonisation that took place today is uniquely Irish. He didn’t make blind people see, and his self sacrifice for the good of the country has proved to be misguided at best.

    Just wondering was their any fund set up for him that Bertie will now be spending as the rest of his tragic familial history repeats itself.

    At the end of the day you can’t get round genetics.

    RIP

    Should have spent the time with his familly, speaking English

  15. Admin note : The system occasionally holds comments back for technical reasons. Please be patient if your comment doesn’t go up immediately. Repeating it doesn’t make it appear any faster, but does manage to irritate me and make me extremely grumpy.

    Thank you.

  16. That might have been me Bock..oops .
    I thought it was lost in space forever. I didn’t realise it was held back for technical reasons.
    And extremely grumpy as opposed to the aul everyday regular grumpiness? ha ha.
    Too many grumpy old men around here. Cheer the fuck up. It’s Friday.
    And you’re welcome for that little pearl of wisdom.

  17. Ignorant fuckers the lot of ye. Havnt a clue what ye are talking about. Brian Lenihan had the job of clearing up a mess of previous governements making. RIP Brian

  18. A very good analysis by Bock he will be remembered for the Blanket Guarantee which lost us our sovereignty, NAMA which he cobbled together to look after his professional friends and for the MOU the contents of which Damien Kiberd descibed as a “surrender document”.

  19. I got quite a few scowls at work today when i bad mouthed poor auld brian. From the same people who cursed his name when they had their pay slashed and their country consigned to generations of debt. This country suffers from an acute case of memory sickness. I always despised Lenihan and whilst i would never wish such a terrible illness on anyone, i dont pity the bastard one bit.

  20. Honest to God, some of the comments on here make me think that some people honestly aren’t worthy to be called citizens of this country – certainly not civilised ones anyway.

    Lenihan made a decision to save the banks in the space of a couple of hours, very late at night. Had he not guaranteed the banks at that very moment in time the whole country would have gone under, bankrupt, financially ruined AIB, Anglo gone the following day….depositors included. It was a very brave and necessary decision. The current government, broken promise after broken promise, have suddenly discovered that there really was no alternative for Lenihan and now, just like then, they have no alternative. Those banging on about lost sovereignity should buy a dictionary.

    RIP Brian. You will be remembered for putting country before health.

  21. Have a bit of respect for his wife and children. Have any of you children. They have lost their Daddy tonight, nothing will ever change that.

  22. “Have a bit of respect for his wife and children. Have any of you children. They have lost their Daddy tonight, nothing will ever change that.
    He had no respect for my wife and children, fuck him, my wife and children have to live with the consequences of his actions, his wife and children will never have to live with the consequences of my actions, the sooner his fellow traitorous bastards join him the better.

  23. you people are animals, what did you ever do in your life, sit on your arse and give out about everything. Mock the dead. So brave, so grown up. That really makes a big difference, so so brave.

  24. We will start with bankrupting the country, and denying my children a future, where would you like to go from there?

  25. You’re not alone in thinking that, Padraig. In fact, the entire Lenihan family treated us like animals.

  26. Padraig, I have done a lot more than you might think, but my actions, have not bankrupted an entire country.
    Mock the dead?, I despised him when he was living, now that he is dead, why should I change my opinion?

  27. To those of you who might think I am a callous person, this evening my grandson, came a cropper of his bike and suffered some nasty injuries, as we tended to his wounds, a frightened and shocked little boy naturally cried out for his daddy, this tore a lump out of my heart, because, thanks to Brian Lenihan and his ilk, his daddy is not about, he is in Australia, where he was forced to emigrate due to unemployment, how do you think he will feel when he finds out his son is injured,?, how will it tear him apart?, being so far away, and unable to comfort his son.
    We are finally rid of the Lenihan family from Irish politics, although knowing Fianna Fail, they will dig up another one of the fuckers to take his place

  28. It’s a pretty crude analysis, jbkenn. The country was really bankrupted by his predecessors, especially the FF – PD government of 2002 – 2007 who inflated the bubble (Lenihan was not a senior cabinet member during this time). There were many other factors too. Lenihan was handed the mess in 2008, and no doubt mistakes were made. I haven’t seen any hard evidence that shows that he wilfully bankrupted the country.

  29. The system continues to trap comments on this thread. I don’t yet know why this is happening, but if your comment doesn’t appear immediately, please be patient.

  30. Mermoz,

    The bubble that he inherited would only have bankrupted the banks (bad enough as that is). The state taking responsibility for those private debts which were not even nearly covered by the collateral, and saddling taxpayers with an intolerable burden – that happened on his watch.

    It’s a sad thing for anyone to die, and his family have my sympathies. It doesn’t change the fact that he was responsible for horrendous decisions which will cripple this country for years to come.

  31. Totally agree there Bockster. As I said yesterday sending a terminally ill Barrister to broker financial deals is like getting a plumber with alzhiemers to operate on you.

  32. Anton #28, as a citizen of this country, which my grandfather faught for, I am entitled to freedom of speech. Do I have to say nice things about politicians to exercise that right?

    Pardaig #33, The Lenihan dynasty never gave a continental fuck about you. me or anyone in this country. He bailed out Fitzy and Fingers, his buddies and FF supporters. This country is run for the benefit of the few, primarily FFers. Bertie has been shown to have been crooked, Fitzie and Finger ditto. Will they ever see the inside of a prison? Will they fuck. Mean while the numbers being jailed for non payment of fines/debt is on the increase. People have no money to pay debts because of cunts like Fitzy, Fingers and poor Brian. Burt you’re right, we should be nice to them.

  33. He was in a position of trust, a minister and he lied, about the banks, the imf, the ecb, his health. He was a lier, he is now a dead lier, pity is he didn`t die choking on his lies. Oh, wait, maybe he did!

  34. “If you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all” is a panty-waisted excuse for conflict avoidance. Now I realize that it’s one of the symptoms of across-the-board sissification, but really, it’s your choice whether to succumb to it or not.

    I aagree totally. If you dislike something or someone, then you should have both the means and the stones to express it and deal with the results. Without the obligatory sugarcoating, mind you.

    But the posts here are just totally shocking, please have some respect and refrain from posting such awful comments about Mr. Lenihen during this time of mourning for him!

  35. I’m amazed at the arrogance shown by some of the commenters on this thread. One character thinks we’re not entitled to citizenship. Another thinks we’re animals.

    And why? For daring to criticise the failed policies implemented by a government minister.

    No wonder Ireland is screwed with that sort of ostrich logic.

  36. Quotes 1st, then my comment.

    GOM #2 – There are also those who believe if you have nothing positive to say, say nothing.

    So?

    Kropotnikus 10 – The only sure thing in life is death and taxes.

    Lenihan died to tax, and you’re taxed to death.

    FME 17 – Boldpilot.. “I am sorry to learn that Brian Lenihan has been killed by cancer. He should have died by firing squad.” That was mean!

    So?

    Anto 28 – RIP Brian. You will be remembered for putting country before health.

    That’s nice. And brave of you to go against the tide in the rest of your comment. Wonder if you’re right.

    Padraig 29 – Have a bit of respect for his wife and children. Have any of you children. They have lost their Daddy tonight, nothing will ever change that.

    True.

    jbkenn 31 – He had no respect for my wife and children, fuck him, my wife and children…

    You got a point there, too.

    Padraig 33 – Mock the dead. So brave, so grown up.

    If they mocked him in life, why not also in death?

    ——————————————————————————–

    If it can be shown that he was not mentally capable to make such an important national decision because of his terminal illness, maybe you can make a class-action claim to nullify that decision.

  37. Bock, having read the glowing tributes to Lenihan in today’s media, I have to confess, I got it wrong, the man was a veritable saint, from a political dynasty of veritable saints, from a party of even more veritable saints. Mea Culpa
    As a nation, we truly deserve all that is visited upon us, we really do.

  38. I relation to all of the “respect for fhe dead, think of his family” posts, I doubt his kin will be musing over this thread thinking “christ, aren’t people mean”.

    I suspect when the likes of Bertie goes we will suffer the same mass amnesia, “oh he was a sly one that bertie, ah but sure he was a good lad, he meant well”.

  39. I think this is a better way to say it:

    He taxed and died; you’re taxed to death.

  40. “He was directly responsible for the most disastrous financial decision ever made by a senior Irish government minister”

    I was not a fan of his politics either but to imply that is absolute rubbish. Not to mention quite shameful. Aside from your blatant lack of respect for his wife and two young children at this time, If you had any concept of finance you would know that it was lack of planning, management and indeed regulation that brought the country to it’s knee’s. If anyone should be labelled the biggest culprit, look no further than the man who laid the foundations for the disaster, Mr Cowen. He should have been more prudent, he should have had a tight reign on the banking sector and when the likes of the HSE were running at astronomical figures he should have be assessing what he was getting for his money, when an appalling health care system was equating to massive unjustified expenditure, heads should have rolled, the budgets should have been tightened and he should have put financial plans in motion to curb this excessive costs. Brian Cowen should have signifigantly reduced public sector pay. That is what a good finance minister would have done. Cowen didn’t. He was a drunkard and a coward and in no way could you worsen Lenihan to him. He was the finance minster for three years before the crisis. And he was too corrupt and afraid to ruffle feathers to do what was right.

    I no more believe in glorifying people in death than I believe in unjustifiable disgracing them. As I said I did not like Mr Lenihans politics but it is a dishonesty to publicly call him the worst finance minister the state has had just because he is dead. He was very courageous and stepped up to a plate the most would have ran from. If nothing else that has to admired.

  41. Lenihan, was given the task of rescuing a bankrupt country and a banking system that was sliding deeper and deeper into a very deep black hole. He had a brilliant legal career( Cambridge) but knew little about economics and finance, but he needed to hit the ground running.
    Unfortunately he didn’t have the requisite skills to hit the ground running and mistakes were made before he got full control of his brief.
     indeed his successor is now being weighed down by the mistakes made

    I believe that apart from the guarantee his legacy is on balance positive given the mess that he was handed and for which he had no responsibility. He worked incredibly hard despite his terminal illness and
    implemented a very severe fiscal correction that is ongoing and painful but very necessary to address the sins of his predecessors.
     He will be seen as a very honest hard working politician which is an unusual trait in Fianna Fail. All of ye critics should remember that there was never going to be an easy or straightforward path out of the
    incredible mess that he inherited. He stood up to his critics and did his best to restore Ireland’s
    destroyed reputation.
    If someone could give me evidence proving lenihan was the sole person behind our current crisis then I would see where ye are all coming from!
    It really is a shame to see people that have such horribly twisted ways of thinking in the world! It baffles me how anyone could say some of the things above?
    I ask ye, what would ye have done differently?
    Brian Lenihan- very respected man in my eyes :)

  42. Nonny — I didn’t say he was the worst finance minister because he’s dead. He was also the worst finance minister when he was alive, and I said so then too.

    I see you bring up public spending in the usual way, to distract attention from Lenihan’s criminal decision to pay the debts of private companies.

    And fair enough, if I don’t understand finance, I’m in good company. Neither, according to your definition, do Morgan Kelly, Brian Lucey, Jospeh Stiglitz, George Soros or the Financial Times. Not to mention Constantin Gurdiev or David McWilliams.

    The righteous indignation of Lenihan’s defenders on this thread stinks of hypocrisy.

  43. Wow- what insightful political commentary! Bock, the tradition of not pouring spite on a man on the day of his death is not just an Irish one; it’s a universal tradition dating back to Roman times. As regards his “physical condition,” “variety of aggressive drugs” and tiredness at the time of the bailout negotiations; all this is pure speculation. The fact is all we know about his physical condition at the time is that he had a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer, and to speculate further is to veer dangerously close to the lazy and misleading journalism that you quite rightly despise. The failure of our new cancer-free government to negotiate a significantly better deal is an indicator of just how hamstrung we truly are. Huffing and puffing about collapsing the Euro is pointless; we have far more to lose than the EU do. De fan, I agree that Lenihan didn’t just walk in off the street to take up the finance portfolio, but his position in the government prior to this was relatively marginal, and he surely had very little input into the series of ludicrously generous budgets drafted by his predecessors.

    Comments about how Brian Lenihan deserved to die in pain or by firing squad (!) because someone’s son had to emigrate are nothing short of despicable. Regardless of what political decisions he made, gloating over a man’s death is beneath contempt. Those who called Lenihan arrogant for continuing to work and keeping his seat are surely the exact same people who’d have called him cowardly had he not contested the last election. There’s no pleasing some people. Joe, you have no right whatsoever to speculate on his relationships with his family. None of us have a clue.

    With all this venom it was only a matter of time before some moron would come up with a Hitler comparison, and Islandbank dutifully obliged. He’ll no doubt back this up with some pithy comment about how forcing a generation to emigrate to find work is akin to genocide. It isn’t.

    Lenihan’s funeral details are freely available; those of you who detest him so much will shortly be able to dance on his grave literally as well as figuratively. I hope it gives you some measure of satisfaction. In the meantime, watching the thousands who recognise him as a man of integrity forced to take extremely tough decisions turn out to pay their respects will no doubt stick in your craws.

    Nastiest little thread I’ve seen in a long time.

  44. Islandbank – Your post has been deleted. I’ll ask you to show a bit of respect to the man’s family. This thread is about his policy, not the man himself. Thank you.

    Mark — I’m not especially worried if this thread upset you. Lenihan’s failure as a minister has caused a lot more than personal offence to many people in this country.

  45. Mark — Thank you for the acknowledgement, but it isn’t about verbal fencing and I have no desire to win points. It seems to me — and not only to me but also to many eminent economists — that Lenihan’s precipitate issuing of a blanket guarantee is what led directly to our current disastrous fix. I think it would be perverse, on his passing, not to discuss this thing that singles Lenihan out above all else.

  46. Bock, was Lenihan worse than Charlie McCreevey or Brian Cowen? I don’t think that he was. McCreevey was the one who drove the credit bubble more than any other, and Cowen sad idly by. Lenihan had to deal with the mess.

  47. I don’t believe any finance minister made a more catastrophically bad decision than Lenihan’s to assume responsiblity for Anglo and Irish Nationwide.

  48. Of course Bock i have indeed gone over the top, my apoligies to yourself and your readers.

  49. I agree with you, he made some appalling decisions but if you think about this logically he was essentially entrusted the role of examiner for the entire country. He had to go in to a finance department deeply rooted in corruption and in an extremely short period of time make decisions based on the best advice available. In a fairness to the man, he made a gallant effort to seek expert advise. And what did he get in return? Made a mockery of by that utter gobshite, McWilliams. Brian Cowen had three years to invest in addressing our financial system. From Brian Cowens legacy as finance minister there is nothing that sticks out in my mind, not one piece of legislation, not one draft, not one positive step towards reforming the financial structure in Ireland. We are a young state, with troubled times behind us, the recent boom should have been used as opportunity to capitalise on our wealth of resources, to engage in an acceptable level of protectionism (France and Germany do it), to address infrastructure shortfalls, to build a robust healthcare system, to broaden the tax base so it was not resting solely on bricks and mortar. And yes Public Sector reform is an integral part of getting this country right. Like many things the economy is cyclical and in may ways you cannot avoid the inevitable but you can plan and make provisions to lighten the blow. Brian Cowen didn’t even make an attempt, not even a half hearted effort to limit the blight of economic disaster. As a member of the Dail since 1984 he saw the scourge of recession, he would have had first hand experience with people coming up to him and complaining about the difficulties they faced. Clearly he just saw this as experience and not something he would strive to prevent.

    I agree Nama is a disaster and in principal bailing out private companies is beyond me. History dictates, what comes up must come down. One would think we could not possibly rebuild our economy until it has came completely crashing down. Perhaps Mr Lenihan just dragged out the full on depression that threatens or perhaps his thinking was to bide us time until the rest of the world is in a position to deal with us. One thing is for sure though, when I recall the Mr Lenihans time as finance minister I will remember a man who’s politics I hated, who worked hard, implemented changes, cut public sector pay, made hard and fast decisions in what he believed was in the interest of Irish People.

    However, when I recall Mr Cowens outing as finance minister again I recall a man who’s politics I hated, who allowed Mary Harney pay her consultants, her “employees” more so she could recruit extra staff, who let the monopoly that was the ESB pay directors and staff an obscene amounts of money, funds that could have gone to the exchequer and make a massive dent in our deficit, a man who did not attempt to spread taxation, a man who could for example have imposed stealth taxes on food we import to protect Irish jobs, who could have invested in the viability of natural resources, I remember a coward who thought it funny to be drunk and impersonating people in the early house of the morning whilst the people that relied on him were losing their jobs on their homes. I remember him as the worst finance minister the state has ever had.

    When Mr. Cowen was given the wheel steady waters awaited him, the sky was clear and the world was his Oyster, he could could have stirred us in whatever direction he chose. By the time Mr Lenihan got there the ship was already sinking, all he could do was try to stop the leak. Like all good captains he did not run, though we may not have agreed with him, he did his best and went down with the ship. There is nothing hypocritical about apportioning blame appropriately. It is competely unjust to attribute the entire financial crisis to Mr Lenihan.

  50. I agree with you, he made some appalling decisions but if you think about this logically he was essentially entrusted the role of examiner for the entire country. He had to go in to a finance department deeply rooted in corruption and in an extremely short period of time make decisions based on the best advice available. In a fairness to the man, he made a gallant effort to seek expert advise. And what did he get in return? Made a mockery of by that utter gobshite, McWilliams. Brian Cowen had three years to invest in addressing our financial system. From Brian Cowens legacy as finance minister there is nothing that sticks out in my mind, not one piece of legislation, not one draft, not one positive step towards reforming the financial structure in Ireland. We are a young state, with troubled times behind us, the recent boom should have been used as opportunity to capitalise on our wealth of resources, to engage in an acceptable level of protectionism (France and Germany do it), to address infrastructure shortfalls, to build a robust healthcare system, to broaden the tax base so it was not resting solely on bricks and mortar. And yes Public Sector reform is an integral part of getting this country right. Like many things the economy is cyclical and in may ways you cannot avoid the inevitable but you can plan and make provisions to lighten the blow. Brian Cowen didn’t even make an attempt, not even a half hearted effort to limit the blight of economic disaster. As a member of the Dail since 1984 he saw the scourge of recession, he would have had first hand experience with people coming up to him and complaining about the difficulties they faced. Clearly he just saw this as experience and not something he would strive to prevent.

    I agree Nama is a disaster and in principal bailing out private companies is beyond me. History dictates, what comes up must come down. One would think we could not possibly rebuild our economy until it has came completely crashing down. Perhaps Mr Lenihan just dragged out the full on depression that threatens or perhaps his thinking was to bide us time until the rest of the world is in a position to deal with us. One thing is for sure though, when I recall the Mr Lenihans time as finance minister I will remember a man who’s politics I hated, who worked hard, implemented changes, cut public sector pay, made hard and fast decisions in what he believed was in the interest of Irish People.

    However, when I recall Mr Cowens outing as finance minister again I recall a man who’s politics I hated, who allowed Mary Harney pay her consultants, her “employees” more so she could recruit extra staff, who let the monopoly that was the ESB pay directors and staff an obscene amounts of money, funds that could have gone to the exchequer and make a massive dent in our deficit, a man who did not attempt to spread taxation, a man who could for example have imposed stealth taxes on food we import to protect Irish jobs, who could have invested in the viability of natural resources, I remember a coward who thought it funny to be drunk and impersonating people in the early house of the morning whilst the people that relied on him were losing their jobs on their homes. I remember him as the worst finance minister the state has ever had.

    When Mr. Cowen was given the wheel steady waters awaited him, the sky was clear and the world was his Oyster, he could could have stirred us in whatever direction he chose. By the time Mr Lenihan got there the ship was already sinking, all he could do was try to stop the leak. Like all good captains he did not run, though we may not have agreed with him, he did his best and went down with the ship. There is nothing hypocritical about apportioning blame appropriately. It is competely unjust to attribute the entire financial crisis to Mr Lenihan.

  51. How nicely corrected!

    I didn’t follow this all so closely, so I don’t really know as much as you all do. The basic question is, is Anto (28) right? Pardons for requoting:

    Lenihan made a decision to save the banks in the space of a couple of hours, very late at night. Had he not guaranteed the banks at that very moment in time the whole country would have gone under, bankrupt, financially ruined AIB, Anglo gone the following day….depositors included. It was a very brave and necessary decision. The current government, broken promise after broken promise, have suddenly discovered that there really was no alternative for Lenihan and now, just like then, they have no alternative. Those banging on about lost sovereignity should buy a dictionary.

    Was there an alternative? Was there time to activate it? Was Lenihan able to do it in his condition? Maybe he was a guinea pig for others who wanted this outcome, and had him, in his weak state, make it happen.

    And I suppose that it would have been nicer to wait another day to bash him. But I agree that I don’t think that his family cares much about what is said here.

  52. Four Bock . There mere fact that you have digressed to mocking my referring to the man as “Mr” instead of supporting your point just proves your remarks are completely ill founded. As I said I was not a fan but your remarks are unjusified, particularly at this time

  53. Nonny — I have no idea what you mean by “Four”. My views on Lenihan’s economic policies are well documented on this site over the last three years. If you want to read them feel free. If you don’t, it’s of little consequence.

  54. GOM: There are also those who believe if you have nothing positive to say, say nothing.

    That would be a form of lie. If you only mention pluses, and keep the minuses secret, then the truth is concealed.

  55. You asked how many times I said Mr Lenihan. And I said, four. Now I know why you could not put forward a plausible defence.

  56. Bock, well written and I thought I was the only one that really didn’t give a shit. I do have to agree with Mermoz with regard to the shleeveen (sp) McCreevy. As much as Lenihan (“Mr”-that did make me laugh) messed up, McCreevy seems to have got away with everything he did to this country. I’ve lost track of how many Boards he’s sucking dry, how many is it now? 4, 5? A disgraceful cnut.

  57. (Comments still delayed – this comment is coming after #67. My 63 was in response to Bock, not Nonny).

    Bock – you asked Nonny “How many times did you say “Mr Lenihan”?” (S)he answered “Four”. So how can you have no idea what (s)he means? Nonny is right to complain that you’re judging the comment too much on that insignificant point. What’s the difference “Mr. Lenihan”?

    I’m sure that Nonny read your views on this, and obviously just disagrees. Instead of suggesting a total review of your whole output on this, why not just respond directly to Nonny’s comment like (s)he did to yours?

  58. Nonny — My apologies. For some reason unknown to me, all the comments on this thread are being held by the spam filter.

    As to plausible defences, I have no idea what you mean. Lenihan destroyed the country. The end.

    Are you talking about some defence for his stupidity?

  59. He was part of a government that gambled with the future of generations of Irish Children and lost. When they fraud was exposed he personally loaded the gambling debts onto the Irish people through guarantees and loan transfers. Before he died he told in an article about how the Central Bank Head Patrick “Lord Haw Haw” Honohan sold the country down the river when he was involved in a final high stakes game of Russian Roulette with the ECB. Another gamble lost which cost Ireland our Sovereignty.

    Not Celebrating his death but the truth of his career must be told.

    The ridiculousness of media reporting highlighted by David Davin Power compared Brian Lenihan to those lesser men who suffer from cancer. Lesser men because they don’t survive as long. Lesser men because they choose to spend their final months with their families.

  60. a lot of words have been used to describe brian in the media over the past few days. he was , brave, intelligent, verse in several languages, friendly a man who gave lots of his time to talk to people. the one word that should have been used and was not was naive. he took the word of the bankers at the time the bailout was agreed. the bankers lied about how serious the situation was. a 5 billion bailout was all that was needed. that figure seems so small now! its strange that 3 years on, we still don’t know the exact amount, who borrowed the money and what it was used for. why did the banks for help at the last minute?
    lenihan may have been the fiance minister at the time, but ultimately it was cowen who made the decisions. he was fiance minister for the previous 4 years, the one who said we’re not going to nationalise anglo, the one who rang up the sleeping cabinet and told them the situation, why not tell them to get out of bed and report to the dail and explain in detail?
    the best that can be said of lenihan as a ff finance minister is that he was the best of the last 3 we’ve had, and that’s not saying much.

  61. He was only a Man, An Egotistical one but a Man no less and you can rest assure that his void will be filled with another one in identical in every way in a very short time.

    I think it is safe to say we are fucked ! The Irish have proved themselves to be resiliant, resourceful and brilliant in professional Fields throughout the entire Globe but we are guilty of two things, complacency me feinism.

    When the Austerity measures were announced, people were livid, but the proplem was that each different section of society took it upon themselves to represent their own gripe in the way of protest, Elderly supported each other on Medical Card issues, Students on student issues Farmers etc etc etc.. it would have had more of an impact on things if the different beleagured sections got together en masse and brought things to a halt throughout the entire 26 Counties but instead they complained in their own groups and went Home. We get onto Fora/Sites like this and criticise and lament over what’s gone before, have our say, some glad to say, there that told him or her ,others are content to dredge the depths of their hatred and vomit it up unsanitized or filtered remarks or beliefs..

    The people of Ireland need to just say enough is enough and refuse to comply with things they can, the same way the people of a generation refused to pay the Ground rents, citizens went to Prison rather than comply and subsequently it was discontinued.

    There isn’t one single Politician I would trust or believe, I questioned a FG canvasser and he didn’t want to get involved but supported Enda Kenny or Lockjaw as I like to call him, because he had been his Teacher !!

    I hate Fianna Failed by the way.

    Joe.

  62. Whilst Brian Lenihan appeared to be a kind man to those who knew him, and with respect for his family, this man hadn’t a clue about the financial fiasco he inherited. If he had any cop on, he would have left politics gracefully to spend more time with his family, and left the government to appoint a professional to deal with Bertie’s mess.

  63. Whatever Brian Linehan’s failings as Minister of Finance, and they were many he does not deserve the crude abuse in some comments; wishing him dead by firing squad, hoped he died roaring etc. Bock has captured well the reasons for his failure. It must be remembered that our leaders (politicians) are elected in free elections. Our political institutions may certainly be flawed but we, the electorate, are responsible for putting our rulers in place. It is up to us to vote for the right people. There are too many people voting unthinkingly along party and atavistic lines. More intelligent engagement with the political process is needed.

  64. Brian was a turd. Yeah he had cancer but so what? Loads die with cancer. Why would I give a fuck about him? I don’t wish people to be dead.

    There’s someone dying in a hospital now. I don’t know them and hence I could not give a fuck, nor could you.

    Brian sorry to hear you’re dead. You were a bit of a prick like Haughey though.

  65. Mark,
    Your point is false when you say “Huffing and puffing about collapsing the Euro is pointless; we have far more to lose than the EU do”.
    The fact is that the overwhelming majority of people would lose nothing. If we turned around tomorrow and announced a mass default on loans and that we were starting from scratch we would be in a much better position. I have no savings and a massive mortgage and that is the same for most people. Starting from scratch means I no longer have any debts to service. I can now afford to take a massive pay cut and still be better off financially. Ireland becomes competitive. Public Sector wages can be slashed. Government would not need to borrow.
    The only people who would actually have something to lose if we staged an massive default are the tiny tiny minority who have more assets than liabilities. They would lose a fortune if we turned around and did that. Unfortunately they also own and control the media and by default the debate.
    Literally the only people who would be worse off if the Euro collapsed would be the people who own the debt and those who conspired to load it onto the backs of the Irish people. FACT.
    Brian Lenihan had decisions to make, your are correct, how difficult they were depends on your outlook. The Irish banks conspired to sell Irish people as individuals to international loan sharks and did so until they could no longer load anymore debt. They did this for personal gain. They then conspired to load this debt onto the Irish State through the guarantee and effectively end the Republic by selling Irish Sovereignty to international loan sharks. Brian Lenihan had a choice and he choose to give the guarantee. First Choice.
    When Lenihan did eventually try to make a stand for the Republic and Irish democracy Patrick “Lord Haw Haw” Honihan and the Irish banks conspired with the ECB to bypass the Irish government. He could have refused the bail out and stood by the Irish People, as sovereign in the Irish constitution. Instead he lay down.
    What you seem to want is for the Irish media to be allowed to use his death to rewrite the history of what has happened. A good man who did his best and that there was no choice. If he was as clever as they say then maybe he wouldn’t have been as easily duped by the banks. And if he wasn’t duped then he made a choice to effectively end democracy in Ireland and assist the ECB in overthrowing democracy in the Union.

  66. @Haymoon,

    I really am astonished at your naievity, you are right , totally right in your comments re Roaring, shooting squads etc, dreadful comments as many of us have/had people we know/new, Family members etc who suffered or died due to Cancer but to say WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PEOPLE WE ELECT !

    I don’t have a crystal Ball to know that the Liar at my Front Door isn’t just that, A Liar. If you leave your kid in a Creche, you don’t know if the carer is a Paedophile, you have to trust in the Organisation, we have no option and we have now been lied to and deceived by three parties. Totally ridiculous to say we are responsible, we are responsible for electing them but definitely not for how they behave !

    Joe

  67. Thank to men like Brian Lenihan my kid brother had to leave these shores. I cant say if he will ever return. It hurts both me and my family to see the best of irish youth being forced to leave because of scum like lenihan. we all partied eh?

  68. @ Joe

    I think you actually agree with me. What I said was that we elect our rulers. Of course its difficult to judge who to vote for; who is trustworthy etc. But before casting your vote, consider the performance of a party in power; evaluate other members by their record; put yourself forward for election; be more critical of dubious behaviour or statements and speak out.

  69. Brian Lenihan was a excellent politician,he was brought up in politics and served his country as minister for finance in a very difficult time in our history. He was above all a very decent kind man who was continually re elected ib Dublin 15 and was the only fianna fail TD to keep his seat in Dublin during the last elections. He was a very brilliant person and studied law and was a cambridge scholar. He spoke many languages and was had a terrific command of whatever brief he was given. Had Brian not contracted pancreatic cancer he would have certainly been a future Taioseach. He was an incredibly hard worker and was so generous with his time. Ireland has lost its finest politician but he will be remembered by all those who admired his many outstanding qualities. May you rest in peace and thank you for serving this country during a very difficult period. Brian Lenehan a true patriot ,a wonderful person,and a true son of Ireland.

  70. The eulogising by some here and in the national media is nauseating. Lenihan was an inept finance minister and sank this country in a sea of debt to protect his buddies. He achieved nothing as a politician. What did he do to considered a patriot and true son of Ireland? (Whatever that is.) As Samuel Johnson said “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” I’m sure many here knew fine people who died young and who contributed hugely to Irish live in an anomynous way. I’m sure that Bertie and Biffo will receive the same when they pop their clogs. Spare me the fawning.

  71. RIP to Brian Lenihan and to the people who have died and who will die because they can’t get proper medical treatment because of health cuts because our last government opted to underwrite the gambling depts of indigenous and foreign bankers.

  72. @JDR

    Rest in peace? what’s the alternative? ooooh spoooky. That stupid saying looks totally childish, he isn’t sleeping or resting, he’s gone as are all of us when we die, worry about the living not the dead because it’s these poor Bastards that will have to do their best to cling to life as a result of your Buddy ” Brian ” and his FF friends.

    Another bleeding Heart that probably defends Priests and other people in positions of authority because he/she was taught in Catholic school that to contest would guarantee everlasting weeping and gnashing of teeth, it’s moronic idiots like this that had the Catholic Church and FF in power for so bloody long.
    Cut through the miasma of FF bullshit and let go of your brainwashed thoughts of FF and how they are the be all and end all, you make them sound like Gods, somethink akin to the Moonies Cult.

    Let’s hope that the demise of all the current crop of Fianna Failed party will make way for more Honest ( how sad that word looks nowadays ) repesentatives of the Irish People.

    As the author of the Thread stated and went into great depth to put forward the Argument that Mr Lenihan was inept, not a conclusion he arrives at alone, one supported by many People, learned and otherwise.

    Joe.

  73. Brian Lenihan is dead.

    So what.

    His family will feel the loss.

    We have all had family members who have died.

    What Brian Lenihan achieved was the death of the country.

    I have shed no tears and will not.

  74. @ JDR

    “Brian Lenihan was a excellent politician.”

    You’re right there.

    And then he fucked the country.

    Fuck him.

  75. Bock, obviously your memory is short , remember Richie Ryan?? and more, What wonders did FG & Lab. and rest do in opposition? Were they not happy to ride the gravy train like the rest of the stupid population-max my credit card, have all latest gadgets yesterday, can’t wait ’till tomoro, must holiday in Hawaii, must have 400 guests at my wedding ETC–don’t blame the government, blame the stupid population–they had NO brains — lodged in their A—s. Brian ,rest in peace, you were one of the best, we in Castleknock know the truth, they just want a scape goat– -FOOLS

  76. Well, you have succeeded in gathering a whole bunch of really sick bastards on this, which was the object of the exercise presumably. To all those who have taken the trouble to pour out your vitriol on the passing a great and good man, the sooner you all leave Ireland the better – and pity the country that gets you. Their loss will be Ireland’s gain, surely. Ryanair does not fly far enough for you but the Government should really consider grant aid for one way tickets. Even in these difficult times, it would be a good investment.

  77. An #91 – that makes sense – another excuse to send even more people out of the country!

    I don’t think that your suggested gathering was the object of this excercise. A person can be great and good in most things, and terrible in others. That seems to be the situation here. And for a lot of people, this particular financial “other” more than cancels out the great and good majority. Too bad.

    Joe: I also noticed that about RIP. I wonder – do even non-religious people think that the dead are resting? That they’re going to eventually get up from their little rest?

    I don’t remember seeing such a polarized and emotionally charged post as this one.

  78. Marie & Ciarraioch # 91 & 92, do ye honestly believe that Lenihan was a good minister of finance? I’m not questioning his intelect or cambridge record. What did he achieve as minister of finance? This is a man who is being called a patriot and a true son of Ireland. Leaving aside his flesh pumping in Castleknock, what did this patriot and true son of Ireland actually do for Ireland?

  79. @ An Ciarraíoch Mallaithe, Instead of the novel approach that you’ve taken in advising people to emigrate, why not stick with the advice of one of your friends and suggest that they kill themselves?
    There are indeed some sick bastards on this thread, not to mention blind bastards.

  80. @An Ciarraíoch Mallaithe
    Another bleeding Heart and Typical conservative, you read the posts that made you mad and jumped right in brandishing your cat and nine omitting to recognise the supporters of the individual , the ones who saw the goodness in his Family life and attention to the needs of his constituents, typical.feet first conservative.

    The comments in these Threads, reflect in anger held by many re how ill judged decisions and how they effect the lives of the little man. Constant referral to Mr Lenihan’s political decisions seem to have gone by unnoticed by you because it’s Bible thumping time…

    Ironic how you choose Ryan Air to be the Carrier of choice given that they too want to squeeze the remaining joy out of travelling, they too try to ignore the needs of the paying public and fight Tooth and claw to hold onto Cash even when proven wrong in a court of Law. These too want all of your money for little in return , they run, hide and lie, just like Finn Fail did when held to task.
    You should apologise for casting a Net over all in sundry and choosing to vilify collectively rather than selectively.

    Hockey himself and others have tried to make a distinction between the Man and the Politician, but some are just headline and stubborn to see.

    Joe.

  81. This should have read….

    Bock himself and others have tried to make a distinction between the Man and the Politician, but some are just hardline and stubborn to see.

    Joe.

  82. I AM APPALLED ABOUT WHAT IS WROTE IN THE ARTICLE AND IN SOME OF THE COMMENTS.ONLY SPACE CADETS COULD WRITE SUCH RUBBISH.HOPEFULLY YE WILL NEVER HAVE TO DEAL WITH CANCER.YE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.YE ARE A DISGRACE AND IF YE THINK THE PACK OF FOOLS THAT IS IN GOVERNMENT NOW DOES THINGS DIFFERENTLY YE ARE STUPIDIER THAN I THOUGHT.WAKE UP AND GET A LIFE THAN SPEAKING ILL OF THE DEAD.

  83. CAPS DON’T NECESSARILY MAKE A COMMENT MORE PERSUASIVE. In fact, it’s kind of irritating.

    If he hadn’t had cancer, it would have been OK to say things that were said? And just because he’s dead, they can’t be said either?

  84. Is there a Fianna Fáil cumann somewhere churning out all these comments? It’s like an episode of Hall’s Pictorial Weekly. Sooner of later we’re bound to get something from an outraged mother of seven.

  85. Mary, a FF apologist. I suppose Haughey and Bertie were wronged as well? They did no wrong, and Biffo was the most sober Taoiseach we’ve ever had. Mary it is you who needs to get a life. Take you head out of the sand, wake up and smell the roses.

    I am self employed, my business is in bits, my wife is in a temp job after a year on the dole. We are both professionals. Our eldest hopes to go to university in Sept, how do you suppose we will pay for it? Of course none of this is FFs fault, nor Lenihan the Minister of Finance that saddled this country with €ms of private debt.

    The current pack of fools as you refer ti them have been in government for 100 days. When we have had 15 years ot them raping this country we will draw comparisons.

  86. They might turn out to be a pack of fools, but perhaps they won’t be a pack of thieves like the crooks who ran the government before them.

  87. @Mary.

    “I AM APPALLED ABOUT WHAT IS WROTE IN THE ARTICLE AND IN SOME OF THE COMMENTS.ONLY SPACE CADETS COULD WRITE SUCH RUBBISH.HOPEFULLY YE WILL NEVER HAVE TO DEAL WITH CANCER.YE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.YE ARE A DISGRACE AND IF YE THINK THE PACK OF FOOLS THAT IS IN GOVERNMENT NOW DOES THINGS DIFFERENTLY YE ARE STUPIDIER THAN I THOUGHT.WAKE UP AND GET A LIFE THAN SPEAKING ILL OF THE DEAD.”

    I think it might be likely that a Mother of 7 may just appear here but I definitely believe one of the 7 year olds has already,
    I have never seen such Garbage written so poorly in all of my Life, obviously a reflection of a very bad education or lack of one. What the Hell is WHAT IS WROTE? and STUPIDIER? Please Mary, consider running for Government and continue the trend that runs through it like Diarrhoea, in case you need to look it up, it’s what’s left after all the goodness is removed from Food, much like that which will be left after the Government have sucked the Tax payer dry. Ye say ye quite a lot, relative of Jackie Healy-Rae,

    Why the Hell, and I believe Hell is here on Earth by the way, is it beyond the comprehension of idiots like this that the Thread is relective of, only, the individual’s ineptitude in the position of Finance Minister ? ! Get it? The Thread was about his ruination of an economy by burdening us with a huge Debt get it? He was, by alaccounts, a lovely and generous Man, I don’t see anything in the original, first Post, by the Author attempting in any way to character assassinate Mr Lenihan.

    The choice by Annonymous Posters to add vile comments is their choice, however, there are logical arguements re the point of the original Post.

    Joe.

  88. Joe — I have no problem with the traditional plural form of “you”. What point are you making there?

  89. An Ciarraíoch Mallaithe, the people posting here are the small few who have taken the time to write here, there are another 2 million people I’m absolutely sure would if Bock would advertise himself more online as he’s written some great articles. Let’s not forget who got the seats and who didn’t last election.

    If we all leave the country via your Ryanair suggestion, that’ll leave the sad little group of 9,000 stepford wives that came from the farms and their homes in Castleknock to sign Lenihan’s Book of Condolence. The pricks.

    Joe, I agree with you, Mary’s post was badly written and embarrassing to read. Mary. I “spoke ill” of Lenihan before his death, what’s the change? Charlie’s dead, did everyone bow down and praise him? No. Someone even took the initiative to entertain us on his grave.

  90. I’m just at my wit’s end trying to, for the want of a better word , Pigeon hole individuals who refuse to accept the facts , is it a ” type ” that insists on ignoring the facts? it’s an embarrassment to see what was representing Ireland abroad , vastly over weight idiots like Cowen and Jackie Healy Rae with a comb over from a comic Book and practically inaudible when asked any questions.The Poster decided that to shout by using Caps would make the points more valid. If this is what supports The FF and people like that then we’re screwed.

    The traditional Ye in conversation looks less inarticulate than in the Typed word.

    Just my Opinion.

    Joe.

  91. Nach iontach an rud é go bhfuil an t-am agaibh chun cúr agus cúiteamh a dhéanamh ar an t-iarr Aire Airgeadais, le roinnt laethanta anuas anois. Ar ndóigh, cinnte tá sibh ag léiriú droch mheas ar an marbh, agus ar a chlann sna laethanta seo, cé go bhfuil fhios ag cách nach bhfuil rudaí go héasca orthu. Níl sa saol seo ach seal, agus imeoidh muid uilig idir óg agus sean, idir saibhir agus daibhir nuair atá ár lá istigh. Ní naomh a bhí san iar-aire, agus cinnnte rinne sé a lán botúin, cé nach ndearna na botúín chéanna, cé nach ndéanfaidh iad. Aistrigh é seo má tá sé ar do chumas Bock nó a Bhoicín ( an módh ordaitheach)

  92. Educate yourselves and understand what is going on. The Central banks of Europe have and are conspiring to end democracy by controlling governmens through debt. Implementing policies that would never be accepted or implemented by freely democratic governments elected by the people.
    Patrick “lord haw haw” Honihan is a traitor in the pay of the ECB.

    Watch the history of money–

  93. Bhuel a Bhoicín, tá se sin go deas le cloistéal, níor thug tú aon tuairim faoin méid a bhí le rá an t-am seo agam. An é gur aontaigh tú liom? An fonn codlata atá ort a Bhoicín? An bhfuil na méaracha tinn as a bheith ag clóscríóbh le roinnt laethanta anois.
    Ach is fearrr an t-achrann ná an t-uaigneas.

  94. Ní aontaím leat but I’m not playing your games either. Most of our readers don’t speak Irish, and therefore, while you’re free to continue commenting as Gaeilge in line with site policy, you need not expect much response.

  95. Arrogence personified !

    Why assume someone here is incapable of deciphering your Gaeilge? Why resort to this?
    Sometimes the translation of crazy People’s words is best left as it is.

    You have proved my point that there is some mental barrier to some people understanding the point of the Thread ie. inept members of Governments and not their Personal traits in Life.

    True, Death comes to both old and young, sick or healthy and rich or poor but ask the Rich if they’d prefer to sit for days on a Trolly with Drug addicts or Drunks rubbing up against them, worrying if whatever possessions they brought with them will still be there when they wake up and I’d bet they’d prefer the Blackrock Clinic, being waited on Hand and Foot, the poor can thank Mr Lenihan and all involved in the demise of the Irish Boom for not having that option.

    Joe.

    Joe.

  96. True enough. You identify the type fairly well.

    For now, though, I’ll keep myself to myself. Not for long, but just for now.

  97. Mary,

    “I AM APPALLED ABOUT WHAT IS WROTE IN THE ARTICLE AND IN SOME OF THE COMMENTS.ONLY SPACE CADETS COULD WRITE SUCH RUBBISH.HOPEFULLY YE WILL NEVER HAVE TO DEAL WITH CANCER.YE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELVES.YE ARE A DISGRACE AND IF YE THINK THE PACK OF FOOLS THAT IS IN GOVERNMENT NOW DOES THINGS DIFFERENTLY YE ARE STUPIDIER THAN I THOUGHT.WAKE UP AND GET A LIFE THAN SPEAKING ILL OF THE DEAD.”

    You need to be less appalled and more conscious.

    By the time Ireland “gets out” of the “bailout” it will have a debt of €200,000,000,000.

    That’s what the nice guys say.

    Kelly puts it at a quarter of a trillion.

    Lenihan did that.

    Nobody else did it.

    Lenihan did it.

    You might want to consider how a quarter of a trillion Euros will be paid back before you make a man a saint.

  98. JUST AS I SAID ANOTHER SPACE CADET RICH GETTING CARRIED AWAY WITH FIGURES .A MATHS EXPERT PERHAPS HAHAHA.

  99. Mary, here’s a little tip, it came from a website aptly titled “simple” help.

    “Don’t type in all capital letters
    Typing in all capital letters on the Internet is considered rude because it is difficult to read and comes across as very aggressive (LIKE SHOUTING!). If you take away nothing from this ‘how-to’ other than knowing that typing in “caps” is widely despised on the Internet, consider it time well spent.”

    Sorry for interrupting but to be fair, the woman requires assistance, carry on…

  100. i would just like to make a few comments
    1)- he was born and bred fianna foil from when he was in short trousers. A td from 96 and a minister from 2002 and cannot in any way be said to inherit a bad legacy.. he was part of the problem.
    2)- as finance minister he made terrible decisions (most people realise this as fact, check out the election results!) maybe through sickness and tiredness , but i expect he knew he was sick tired.
    3)- as a family man he chose to persevere with his career instead of spending time with his family, probably his most unforgivable lack of judgement.

    he showed poor judgement in political and family life !!!!

    I would imagine that his family will read all the plaudits in the national press and I hope that they get much solace from that. I for one do not mourn his passing nor will I for many others who served with him. We did not need to be here financially, it could have been avoided by good men

    4)- evil is done when good men stay silent… there is no time when criticism of public figures alive or dead should be repressed…. unless of course we would rather not live in a democracy.

  101. Padraig, reminiscent of the “Gaelgoir” or, more aptly the “Gaelbore”, who encamped himself, his Fainne, his spouse and his brood, to the Gaeltacht every year, usually for the month of August, where he proceeded to wither the locals with his perfectly enunciated “blas”.
    I would have thought, like the Christin brothers, they would have all died out by now, obviously not.

  102. Mary,

    “JUST AS I SAID ANOTHER SPACE CADET RICH GETTING CARRIED AWAY WITH FIGURES .A MATHS EXPERT PERHAPS HAHAHA.”

    You are truly ignorant of what is happening.

    You might want to consider the math that Lenihan has left.

    €200,000,000,000 @ 5% is €10,000,000,000 a year.

    Do you understand what that means?

    It is one third of the entire tax take of this economy.

    Can you begin to understand?

  103. I met a fella today in a supermarket queue. He was buying a radio-controlled helicopter and when I engaged him in casual conversation he tried to intimidate me by talking about gyroscopic precession. He was dismayed to discover that I knew exactly what it meant. That’s what Padraig reminds me of.

  104. Mary hasn’t a clue. Not one solitary idea what it all means. This is Fianna Fáil Central you’re talking about.

  105. Bock,

    “Mary hasn’t a clue. Not one solitary idea what it all means. This is Fianna Fáil Central you’re talking about.”

    Sorry. I disagree.

    Mary knows exactly what’s going on.

    Mary is a paid troll.

    That’s your tax Euros at work.

    Mary deliberately appears ignorant and appeals to respect for the dead.

    Mary is interested in one thing and one thing only.

    Don’t talk about the fact that Ireland cannot pay this debt.

    Mary could well be a Dutch National paid by the ECB.

    To my mind Mary is scum.

    Just an opinion.

  106. Welcome back Rich Bamker.
    Thanks for the sums there.

    I think some people could do with differentiating between a person’s life and their policies.
    As in, you can disagree with his policies but respect the man’s life at the same time.

  107. FME,

    “I think some people could do with differentiating between a person’s life and their policies.
    As in, you can disagree with his policies but respect the man’s life at the same time.”

    For myself. And I can only speak for that I consider Lenihan a coward, his only policy was cowardice.

    Regarding his “person” I never met the man.

    Just as I did not meet Princess Diana.

    I am sick and tired of being told that I should “respect the dead”.

    I will respect the dead that were alive in my life.

    If those that were in my life are worthy of respect when dead.

    The glorification of death for its own sake is sickening.

  108. Have respect for the dead? How about have respect for the living who have to live with the dead’s terrible mistakes?

    I don’t know for sure if Lenihan was tricked, convinced or bullied into that bank guarantee but for whatever reason he did so, he fucked our country up good and proper.

    Sure the other finance ministers were terrible and probably increased the bubble but he’s the one who made the people take the blast from the bubble exploding, when he could have let things run their natural course and let the banks take the hit.

    Ugh, just reading Mary’s comments irritates me, Bock, could you make her go away?

  109. Rich, I’m happy that someone else agrees that (s)he’s a troll. Maybe even looks something like Morgor! ; )

  110. Good article Bock.

    I was flicking through the headlines after Lenihan died and was not surprised to see that most of them were trying to canonise him. It was all very predictable yet at the same time surreal because it smacks of pure hypocracy.

    After reading the posts below your article it seems that there is a hell of a lot of anger out there but it is unfortunate that some people can’t articulate their anger very well. I didn’t realise there were so many awful people in his country. It is fecking scary

    I wont his Lenihan or his FF ilk but I bet they will be back

    You once used a line at the end of one of your posts that sums Ireland up pretty well:

    What an insane country!

  111. Absolutely correct
    Lenihan no doubt a fine man but a disaster as a politician.
    his legacy has been one of total failure, ineptitude and deceit. Unfortunately the arse lickers in the Dail have to pretend that they believe all the platitudes and cliches trotted out about him being a brilliant mind etc. Unfortunately his brains loanded us in the brown stuff that will take generations to clean off. He was one of the worst politicians Europe, never mind Ireland, has ever seen.

  112. Rich Bamker, as I said I think anyone is entitled to disagree with a person’s policies.
    I said nothing of respecting the dead. I mentioned respecting the man’s life.
    I find some of the comments a little distasteful to be honest. Talking about the temperature of his corpse. etc. And we’ve had this discussion before on the Gerry Ryan thread, where you couldn’t empathise with him or his family as you never met him/them. I won’t tell you you “should be shot with the balls of your own shite” as someone did on that thread, but you could improve on your empathy a little.

    Some1LovesU, No. 46. What do you mean “so”? There’s no so about it. Just saying I thought a comment was mean. Another thing, aren’t you from Israel? How did Lenihan effect anything for you? ..

  113. FME – Mean to me implies bad, inappropriate. Bold Pilot said that he deserved death by firing squad instead of cancer, I will assume, because he thinks that he deserved that. You may think that it’s undeserved, but what makes it mean? Respect for the recently dead again? That’s what I meant by “so” – so what that you think it’s mean?

    I am from Israel, and Lenihan doesn’t directly affect me (affect, I think you meant, not effect). Pardon me for repeating myself, but I say again: So? Because I’m here I can’t comment on things that happen there? I’ve been doing that for more than two years! I can’t have and express an opinion on something not directly affecting me? I happen, at my insufficient level of knowledge, agree with those here who say that, even if he was a nice guy and experienced and successful in other activities, he apparently ffailed big time as Finance Minister for you all. Depending on the degree and responsibility for the failure, he may very well have deserved punishment, perhaps even as severe as BP suggested.

    More than that, I’m sure that you would agree that many things that happen in one corner of the world affect things in another corner, especially things on such a large scale as Lenihan’s saving or destroying Ireland’s near and distant fiscal future. Greece is now expected to default; perhaps Ireland will or should also. This would cause a huge reverberation in world finance, which affects everyone.

    A long response to a 2-letter word comment!

    Cheers!

  114. Yes, Some1.. affect. Thanks.
    Yes, I meant it was a bit mean. There’s no so.
    Yes, apparently he failed as finance minister.

    How’s the weather in those parts?

    Oh by the way, I meant to ask you, that article you posted a few weeks back. The long winded finance one where they harp on about the Nazis in it, where they talk of Greece defaulting and how it will affect Ireland, I can’t remember the thread you posted that on. Would you have that again by any chance? Thanks!
    I meant to save it but didn’t.

  115. You mean you actually read my stuff, let alone remember it? ; )

    Well, let’s see – it’s not in Old Nuns…it’s not in Olympic Qualifications…not Most Overrated Albums or Bock Becomes a Christian…

    …Here it is – in Morgan Kelly Predicts Irish Bankruptcy (of course)! #49:

    http://bocktherobber.com/2011/05/morgan-kelly-predicts-irish-bankruptcy#comments

    http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-whats-going-to-happen-when-greece-defaults-2011-5

    Oh, and the weather in these parts? Mean…

    Actually, it’s beginning of Mediterranean summer warm and sunny now: 25C – 30C.

  116. That’s the one. Super!
    Of course your articles are read.
    Well besides all the wiki ones and the irrelevant nonsense.. :)
    Occasionally there’s a good one, like a diamond in the rough.. ha.
    Just kidding..

    Yikes. It’s hot there!

  117. That’s interesting – before I read that, I was going to write “it is hot here – in more ways than one!” Don’t know where you mean by here, though.

    FME – thank goodness for the few diamonds!

  118. As Frank Caliendo said while doing an impersonation of Bill Clinton, here is just there without a ” T “.

    Joe.

  119. Now here is just there without T
    And her is just here without E
    Can’t go any farther
    Than taking the R her*
    Which leaves him alone being he!

    *Than taking R from her
    makes more sense, but doesn’t rhyme as well.
    Choose what to use.

  120. Ha ha ha a Bhoicín, an teanga dúchais á chur síos agat, is fíor ghaeilgoir mé, ach táim ag baint úsáid as Gaeilge éasca ar mhaithe leatsa agus do chairde craiceailte, níl mórán measa agat ar an teanga ach an oiread a Bhoicín, go bhfoire Dia orainn, agus is í ceann de na teangacha is sine ar domhain í, curtha faoi chos, faoi bhrú, caite ar lár. Cheap mise go mbeadh tusa a Bhoicín sásta seasamh ar son seo, nach hiad seo na cogaí beaga a bhíonn á throid agat, cogaí ina mbíonn an duine beag faoi bhrú ag an gcumhacht mór, (Rialtas Fhianna Fáíl in aghaidh na daoine = Gaill in aghaidh na Gaeil. Muise a Bhoicín, cuireann tú díoma orm, Nach mór an feall nach bhfuil daoine in ann ár dteanga a thuiscint, tóg d’am á aistriú seo anois a Bhoicín, tóg d’am. Tá súil agam nach ngearradh tú amach as an gcomhrá mé a Bhoicín, sin cinseoireacht. Nach bíodh eagla ort a Bhoicín roimh ár dteanga dúchais, bain taitneamh as, labhair é, bí saor a Bhoicín. Ní chaithim aon fháinne a Bhoicín, sin seafóid, ná caith aon fháinne a Bhoicín ach labhair an teanga.

  121. Is soiléir nach raibh tú ag éisteacht liom. Ceart go leor. Slán tamall, a throillín.

    For those who speak only English, let me explain. This site has an equal treatment policy for comments in Irish. Therefore, people trolling in Irish get kicked off just as fast as in English.

  122. Padraig, the sign of the true “Gaelbore” an “focal deanta suas” , the made up word, can you explain to us in English or Irish, how you translated “Bock” to “a Bhoicín”

  123. “tóg d’am á aistriú seo anois a Bhoicín, tóg d’am”. Tóg d’am = take your time. “Béarlachas” my iar mhúinteoir gaeilge would have called that, maybe even béarlachas uafásach. A toe up the H*le might have been warranted.

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